Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: oboe on November 27, 2022, 11:07:14 AM
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Trying to finish this one up for the next skin batch.
T-Rigor Mortis III, a 475th FG P-38J flown by Minnesota native 1/Lt Francis Lent. Lent often flew as Tommy MacGuire's wingman. Born in St. Paul, MN. Flying with the 475th FG, Lent became a double-ace with 11 kills and was awarded the Silver Star for gallantry in action against the enemy. He was killed in a crash near Lae, New Guinea during a test flight on December 1, 1944.
(Click image for full-size version)
(https://i.imgur.com/hqVOh21.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ksiTpx2.jpg)
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Looking great so far.
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:aok
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Its pretty and all, and not that my opinion matters much, but the skin look more "plastic" like than metal. It may be the lighting because the lower picture looks better.
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It looks like tarnished metal to me -- which I like.
Keep it coming.
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Sorry V- missed your post as I posted this response. Interested in your comments on this as well...
Thanks for the feedback, Fugi. I don't disagree with you. While the lighting angle does make a big difference in AH, the promo screenshot is supposed to show the skin in the best possible lighting circumstances, so if it looks like plastic here it's unlikely to improve at other angles and lighting conditions. I'm striving to make the metal look as realistic as possible, within the constraints of the AH graphic engine.
The idea is to produce something like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/npBahDG.jpg)
Does this earlier skin look better? I've gone back to compare the spec, power and env map files I used on this earlier skin and noted the differences. "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" also uses a lighter colored base metal, with more blue in it. The upper engine nacelle panel sections seem to be the most problematic - the booms have a nice metallic shine, I think...
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/skins/stream.php?floc=1&sfile=fullsizeimg.jpg&stype=1&pindex=p38j_5)
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The lower picture does show the a more metallic look on the booms, but the engine cowling still looks plastic. Maybe a different light reflection/sheen on the engine covers. It almost looks like its dulled down on the front half of the plane. It looks like there is more texture on the booms than on the engine cowling.
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Use the map values from Buggy on the other skin as an experiment.
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The skin looks great Oboe, I'll delay the skins review if you need more time to finish it.
Getting NMF looking right with AH's lighting is a pain but for what its worth here's my opinion. I think the metal on "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" looks a bit too blue, overall I prefer the metal colour you've used in "T-Rigor Mortis".
As Fugitive says the lighting angle used for the second screenshot has a much bigger reflection along the boom making it look more "metal". The environmental reflections in AH look a bit rubbish so skinners usually turn them off or down. Because of this for metal effects skinners tend to rely on increasing the power and size of solar reflections (which are angle-dependent) and maybe painted-on effects which need to be kept subtle so they aren't obvious.
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Well I've made alot of adjustments, bringing back and blending in some settings and values from Happy Jack's Go Buggy. I *think* this is about as good as I can make it. There does seem to be something going on outside of my control, as the metal texture on the booms is the same shade and material as the cowling panel sections, and the Spec, Power and ENV map values are the same - but the glare on the boom metal has a bit softer and more diffuse aspect to it, while the sunglare on the cowl panels has a sharper, more defined edge. Yet my Spec, Power and ENV map values are the same. Interesting also, to look closely at the main gear doors - in the first two images, they have virtually no specularity at all - they almost look like a matte finish. Yet, on the last image, with the gear down and the sun shining on them, they exhibit a fairly realistic metal shine...
(https://i.imgur.com/8UMGUlD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7eJ5MFE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EcMEvGg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7TNCo9b.jpg)
Here are a couple fo my reference images. The painting by John Shaw, "No Saki Tonight", is one of my favorites of P-38s.
(https://i.imgur.com/DeiGvYM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KmloQcu.jpg)
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:aok
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Well I've made alot of adjustments, bringing back and blending in some settings and values from Happy Jack's Go Buggy. I *think* this is about as good as I can make it. There does seem to be something going on outside of my control, as the metal texture on the booms is the same shade and material as the cowling panel sections, and the Spec, Power and ENV map values are the same - but the glare on the boom metal has a bit softer and more diffuse aspect to it, while the sunglare on the cowl panels has a sharper, more defined edge. Yet my Spec, Power and ENV map values are the same. Interesting also, to look closely at the main gear doors - in the first two images, they have virtually no specularity at all - they almost look like a matte finish. Yet, on the last image, with the gear down and the sun shining on them, they exhibit a fairly realistic metal shine...
(https://i.imgur.com/8UMGUlD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7eJ5MFE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EcMEvGg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7TNCo9b.jpg)
Here are a couple fo my reference images. The painting by John Shaw, "No Saki Tonight", is one of my favorites of P-38s.
(https://i.imgur.com/DeiGvYM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KmloQcu.jpg)
This is the right look, Oboe. I think it is spot on. Beautifully done.
Metal was not universally shiny. Tarnish and eventually corrosion will affect anything made of aluminum alloy.
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Thanks Vraciu, Lyric.
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Hey Oboe, I really appreciate your efforts, and listening to my meager opinion. Im sure its something in the way AH displays either the pictures, or the skins.
In the pic with the 38 sitting on the runway on the booms you can "see" the understructure as the metal bends where it is riveted down, the ripples it causes and everything. But on the top of the engine it looks like a single piece fiberglass/plastic cowl over the engine. It loses all that detail you have on the booms. Its really strange.
Other than that its a beautiful skin. Thanks for your efforts <S>
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Fugi, I appreciate your comments! Your assistance here has helped improve this skin and any other '38s to follow. :cheers:
Your comment about the main gear door rivets and metal deformation makes me very happy, as that is all accomplished by an illusion I create in the diffuse map of the skin, using light and shadow around each rivet head.
You are also correct, all the engine nacelle panels are single pieces of aluminum, attached by screws to the underlying framework. You can see this in the B&W photo. In skinning this is more of a challenge because we don't have the detail to work with if its just a smooth, curved or flat piece of metal. I also suspect there is something funky going on with the game engine regarding the interplay between the Specular, Power, and Environment maps and the sun angle. It seems like the Spec and Power files only have an effect under direct sunlight, i.e. no ambient light activates the metal's shine the way it does in the real world. But I'm only guessing about that from the behavior I observe.
<S>!
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I also suspect there is something funky going on with the game engine regarding the interplay between the Specular, Power, and Environment maps and the sun angle. It seems like the Spec and Power files only have an effect under direct sunlight, i.e. no ambient light activates the metal's shine the way it does in the real world. But I'm only guessing about that from the behavior I observe.
I wouldn't doubt it for a second. I know for a fact that these files are affected by direct sunlight and react to it in strange ways as the Environment Map shows shows full power reflections to all areas in shadow. That's why I make the E-map black except for glass and polished metal surfaces.
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While the engine cover are a single piece, they are not a single sheet. There has to be some underlying structure to support that aluminum and it cant be framework on the narcele that would cover the engine and defeat the purpose of an access cover.
(https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/20220811_093043.jpg?ssl=1)
I know the picture is a B29 but you can clearly see a demarcation down the center from top to bottom of the access panel where the skin must be attached to some support structure. Maybe add a few of those illusions to those panels might remove that plastic look.
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I just tried an experiment where I painted the Left Cowl panel sections pure black (x'000000') in both Spec and Power maps, and took comparison screenshots to my original Spec and Power maps, at the same angle, distance, and time of day - there is virtually no difference in the glare from the cowl panels. I *should* be able to control the definition and intensity of the glare with the power and spec maps, but it appears for some reason I can't. I suspect its the same cause the affects our experience when using the color white on a skin - using too light a base color just seems to overwhelm the spec and power values.
(https://i.imgur.com/I7HGfXN.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/EGvmaNM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QQxCL2Q.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/JxwZwoG.jpg)
I don't have an answer for why I feel like I have some control on the inner boom sides, though...
Also interesting in Fugi's pic of the B-29 cowls - even though its not polish bare metal, I can see some reflections of the surrounding area in the metal surface...
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That B-29 is "FIFI" and she's almost entirely silver paint.
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That B-29 is "FIFI" and she's almost entirely silver paint.
Hmm, even more interesting then. Reflections in silver paint? Guess its because its a gloss finish?
Back to Fugi's original point, I resurrected the old technique of baked-in screw head skin deformations, and tried a test patch on Trigor Mortis III's left cowling:
Click for full-size image
(https://i.imgur.com/YoVgpD5.png)
What do you think?
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It's a gloss metallic silver.
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Its just so odd. The first two panels on the engine narcel look plastic, but then the next piece back, the smaller square just aft of the wing root looks like metal. The curve of the vent intake just aft of the insignia is getting hit with the same light, has about the same curve and yet that first panel looks like metal.
I think the deformations help. Maybe adding just a ripple or two along the panel would break up that "super slick" look your getting now.