Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Oldman731 on March 01, 2009, 10:39:06 AM
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We note that, as a general matter, squadrons don't come into AvA anymore. Never having been in a conventional squadron, I thought I would be the ideal person to ask why this is so.
- oldman
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Take a look at the FSO forum, give you a general feel for the likes and dislikes of squadron ops, etc.. Although they don't exactly port over to an open arena, but might help.
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Check your Pm's old
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OM we already know what the answers are going to be. You can already see a hint of it in this thread.
Here is a spin to the question. Why I love to come to the AvA. I like a smaller community where the main thing of the arena is the fight, and where people actually ask if you need help while in a fight. Not like the MAs where the guy drops in, kills the guy you were fighting, then gets mad because you didn't thank him. That's why Iv always been against wars and such. They have always brought the worst of the MA crowd into a place where there was no need for base capture. Iv always said Id rather die in a great fight then have someone pick the enemy off me.
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OM we already know what the answers are going to be. You can already see a hint of it in this thread.
Here is a spin to the question. Why I love to come to the AvA. I like a smaller community where the main thing of the arena is the fight, and where people actually ask if you need help while in a fight. Not like the MAs where the guy drops in, kills the guy you were fighting, then gets mad because you didn't thank him. That's why Iv always been against wars and such. They have always brought the worst of the MA crowd into a place where there was no need for base capture. Iv always said Id rather die in a great fight then have someone pick the enemy off me.
theres a difference in the wars I've written up than past wars.
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One thing that I really don't like about the upcoming war is limited lives. That has absolutely NO place in an open arena like the AVA. SEA1 or SEA2 is where that sort of thing belongs. All that's going to do is bring the timid survivalists that fly at 20-30k and only fight when they have every advantage. The same guys who run to ack from 1v1s when they loose all the alt.
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All that's going to do is bring the timid survivalists that fly at 20-30k and only fight when they have every advantage. The same guys who run to ack from 1v1s when they loose all the alt.
Hmmm... a squad or two comes to my mind.
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One thing that I really don't like about the upcoming war is limited lives. That has absolutely NO place in an open arena like the AVA. SEA1 or SEA2 is where that sort of thing belongs. All that's going to do is bring the timid survivalists that fly at 20-30k and only fight when they have every advantage. The same guys who run to ack from 1v1s when they loose all the alt.
In some instances I have to agree with Larry, but I am anxious to see how this one plays out. :rock I think an open mind and some viable alternatives, would be a start. Should things need to be tweaked (as Fudgums has said he is willing to do), this is a proper forum to voice possible ideas. Here are a couple that come to mind, when thinking of limited lives:
Once, a player has used his 2 lives per hour limit, he may either join another player as a gunner or observer. Also, there should be no limit on ground vehicle lives (that is if any are enabled). The ground war may emerge from down pilots waiting out there spawn penalty. :confused:
The other idea I have posted in much more detail elsewhere, is no limit to lives but a perk system that leaves them with the less desirable rides if they are not able to land successfully. This perk system will also, "promote" pilots with enough successful landings that they would be able to fly the next level of planes, with 3 maybe 4 levels of skill. :eek:
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We note that, as a general matter, squadrons don't come into AvA anymore. Never having been in a conventional squadron, I thought I would be the ideal person to ask why this is so.
- oldman
Oops :uhoh back on topic :D Oldman, I and Fudgums convinced some MA players to come to the empty AvA and checkout the COOL :cool: color corrected map of Tunisia. I was surprised at the number of seasoned MA veterans that knew very little or nothing at all about the AvA. We had some fun and the numbers quickly topped off at about 20 players or so.
Now, those new to the MA were quickly exposed to a different level of expectation, and maybe didn't respond well. This plays to those who feel that the AvA should be some kind of exclusive club. I disagree, because I remember my first encounters with Combat Theater, and my behavior (mainly taking bases un-opposed) was less than desirable. Now, I understand better how much FUN it is to ask others to engage in some FRIENDLY warfare.
When we have guests to the arena, it is our duty as veterans of the AvA to guide them politely into a mindset different from what they are accustomed to. For example "<guest player> you know it is more rewarding sometimes to allow another player to fight 1 v 1 and either watch, find another target or ask if they require assistance." :salute
Squads will come to the AvA, but they will leave in short order, if they are met with insults for doing what they have been practicing for some time.
A well planned Scenario Type Setup should have the new comer in mind. Shadow boxing in an empty AvA will either take me back to other arenas or use it to pork ( I mean practice my attack skills). What is left to do, but leave?
One suggestion for a trial: For the one day Fudgums or like setups, have Squadrons sign up to participate (much like Special Events). Unregistered participants could either be recruited or act as mercenaries, but either kills will not show, perks will not accumulate, or some other way to encourage them to either register for future events or join up with already registered squads. The other idea, is that kills will only show as Squad kills and no gamer ID. :uhoh
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We note that, as a general matter, squadrons don't come into AvA anymore. Never having been in a conventional squadron, I thought I would be the ideal person to ask why this is so.
- oldman
The AvA is basically a DA with rotating plane sets, how often do squads go to the regular DA?
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The AvA is basically a DA with rotating plane sets, how often do squads go to the regular DA?
Seems you havent flown in the "regular DA" in a while from the looks of it.
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Not trying to cast any stones here, I am simply going to answer the question from my own perspective:
I think because of the ruleset/philosophies that are present in the AvA most squads prefer not to get together in there. It's difficult to really fly as a squad when everyone is expected to fly solo, in fair 1v1s with no outside help.
Don't get me wrong, the AvA is a fun place to be when you're looking for those fair 1v1s against good pilots. It isn't bad when there are equal sides and there are friendly duels without really worrying about 2v1s or more.
So on the one hand: The AvA is a great area to learn ACM in fair fights.
On the other hand: Most squads don't fly as individuals, they fly as a group. Which wouldn't fit in the style recommended in this arena.
I don't participate in this arena much, so I won't say that there's anything wrong with it. However, this is why I believe no squads really participate.
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Why don't squads do what we do, when numbers are low we split the squad and use the true aces of the squad to school the rest.
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Actually the AVA was the 353rd's home arena for quite a while. The Battle of Brittan and Battle of Aces comes to mind. JG11, JG54, the Avengers, SOAR to name a few were regulars. I myself dropped out of the AVA for a while because for some reason I started discoing too much there. Not been a issue recently. Hope to be a regular when Fudgums setup starts.
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Not trying to cast any stones here, I am simply going to answer the question from my own perspective:
I think because of the ruleset/philosophies that are present in the AvA most squads prefer not to get together in there. It's difficult to really fly as a squad when everyone is expected to fly solo, in fair 1v1s with no outside help.
Don't get me wrong, the AvA is a fun place to be when you're looking for those fair 1v1s against good pilots. It isn't bad when there are equal sides and there are friendly duels without really worrying about 2v1s or more.
So on the one hand: The AvA is a great area to learn ACM in fair fights.
On the other hand: Most squads don't fly as individuals, they fly as a group. Which wouldn't fit in the style recommended in this arena.
I don't participate in this arena much, so I won't say that there's anything wrong with it. However, this is why I believe no squads really participate.
I agree, but I see worse behavior from those not in squads, just running in to grab a kill. Working in numbers to manipulate the opponent in a wingman fashion is one thing. :rock Snatching up a stalled, roped opponent from beneath the pilot who set him up :mad:, that is just a selfish mindset that belongs in no arena, but has to be politely discarded.
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I agree, but I see worse behavior from those not in squads, just running in to grab a kill. Working in numbers to manipulate the opponent in a wingman fashion is one thing. :rock Snatching up a stalled, roped opponent from beneath the pilot who set him up :mad:, that is just a selfish mindset that belongs in no arena, but has to be politely discarded.
we had a couple of those last night!!
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Seems you havent flown in the "regular DA" in a while from the looks of it.
Brilliant Watson!
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IMO, fewer numbers increases drama which causes less people to play which causes fewer numbers which increases drama which causes....
Plus the AvA has immense bad PR to overcome. I believe if you asked the average AH player to say the first word that comes to mind when you say "AvA" they'd say "Drama".
Maybe we need to change our name, you know like Blackwater did.
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What about "Combat Theater"?
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The AvA is basically a DA with rotating plane sets, how often do squads go to the regular DA?
This is the reason. People who don't bother to participate anymore constantly feel the need to belittle it anyway.
Some of the best furballs I have been in have been when squads have clashed in the AvA.
Some of the worst gangbangs I have been exposed to were when AvA squads have refused to send 4 of their 12 members to help out the 2 on the other side that are getting ganged. I won't name names, they know who they are.
But all things being equal, I would just as soon squads were dropped from the AvA altogether. It might get rid of some of the silly drama if there are no perceived "sides" to defend when someone decides to act like an idiot.
Pick a ride, fly, and shut up.
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On the contrary, more squads would be better. Squad vs squad fighst would get rid of the 1vs1 as the sole method of scrapping. It's hard to 1vs1 when there are 14 or 15 in a furball. :t
I for one would welcome squad vs squad battles, heck I might even be willing to drive a tank!
RTR
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The best thing that could happen to the AvA is to get rid of all the staff who no longer play but snipe on the bbs. Until regular players run the areana it will continues to fester in its current quagmire...
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maybe we should challenge a few of the other squads. trolling if you will, im a good fisherman hehehhe. actually it might be fun. put out an open challange to a particular squad on general forum and see if they bite.
the only problem i see is the MA tactics being used against us. if there was a way to quell that attitude and those tactics we probably could get a few squads back in there. just my thoughts
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Drop Staffers who never play :O
This sound familiar doesn't it OldMan.
Again for the squads, This is what JAY Gee five four does.
Why don't squads do what we do, when numbers are low we split the squad and use the true aces of the squad to school the rest.
Be prepared for Squad drop outs! you find that some squadies, that is if you care, just don't belong.
Every time we do this the arena fills up.
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I haven't had much time to play lately, but I can say that when the proper senario/map is up, there can been some good times in there. Most recent was the last BoB setup. 353rd vs. JG/54 fights became some seriously fun squad vs. squad fights.
Perhaps if there is some really good planning and advertising, along with the issue of moving the AvA to the EW/MW server, more people will join in
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The best thing that could happen to the AvA is to get rid of all the staff who no longer play but snipe on the bbs. Until regular players run the areana it will continues to fester in its current quagmire...
And sniping behind shade cover really proves that you are, in fact, a contributing member of said arena...
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And sniping behind shade cover really proves that you are, in fact, a contributing member of said arena...
:lol Somone just burned hmi. :aok
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Battle of Aces
To me this was the high point of the AvA. I've never seen so many players logged on since then. It was almost like a mini FSO, with whole squads flying in organized fashion to intercept enemy raids. The addition of weather variability made it even more interesting.
If we had something like BoA again, but without the pricing for aircraft, that would be something. I appreciate fudgums' efforts but PTO isn't it.
Edit:
One more thought. If something BoA is run again, you would need to sub a bomber for the axis, something to take the place of a Do 217 or He 177.
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Yup, BoA was the high point alright, I dont think I even logged into the MA for two weeks.
shamus
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I have another right up that's in the works atm that is eto.
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My squad hasn't had that many adversories in AH2. Back in AH1 we were up against the different squadrons in the CT, now in AH2 we've mostly have to battle our archnemesis the LLv34 - if we'd like to fly together as Finns we wouldn't have anyone to fly against, this has been cutting down our enthusiasm as there haven't been that many people online when most of us have been trying to fly the AvA. (Even if the fights 1vs1 have been fun enough, I'd like to see more people in the AvA).
<S> all of you AvA flyers!
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Panzzer,
It always to good to see you, Target, Shamus and others around. In BOA, those in the know, really appreciated the hard work put forth to handle the settings and soft coding issues that came about. I too, have a schedule that conflicts with the peak AvA flying hours. The problem that I believe Oldman is addressing is that peak has rounded off to a mound. EW, MW and updated DA offer players choices other than LW main arena squad ops.
What I don't get in any of those, is the historical feel of pitting Axis planes against Allied. In my opinion the :cool: Axis versus Allies Arena :cool: server should be flashing "try me" every time you log in.
We have some talented filmers, we should have some films posted in the General Forums, to give the uninformed a peek at the lovely color corrected maps and historical setups.
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It always to good to see you, Target, Shamus and others around.
<--gonna try and get shamus back in, he left because of happenings in the arena but has expressed interest in being active in the AvA again. :)
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The Checkertails are barely on as it is. I heard Joedog might be coming back so you never know. He and I used to frequent the AvA.
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Obviously I'm far from a regular, there are simply never more then a few people online in the AvA normally. Last excursion into the AvA was the last Midway set up. Was normally 2-3 or more to 1 (axis) with most of the fights gravitating to the lagoon and even over the field. So basically same old same old.
I would make the following observations, 1st there is zero difference between AvA and MA squads...with the exception that by and large MA squads have more talent. Game play is in no way "better in the AvA", in fact most folks looking for a better fight tend to fly the MWA vs the AvA. I will certainly continue to look for opportunities to pop in and maybe over time things will change.
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humble I hope you can find a time when there's a bigger size grop in there sometime. I think you'll find the fights are infact better by far. As far aw MW...I have nothing good to say about that arena. I was in there the other night...All I saw buzzing around were Hurris and Fm2s. I was outnumbered 3 to 1 just about every fight (was fighting the same 3 people for the most part). I couldn't turnfight withthem, so I tried roping them (I was in a 38) They would complain of picking everytime I'd do that :confused:
It was even worse than LW, I was pretty disappointed. you won't find stuff like that going on in the AvA.
Next time we got some good #s in there I'll see if you're on and shoot you a PM :salute
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humble I hope you can find a time when there's a bigger size grop in there sometime. I think you'll find the fights are infact better by far. As far aw MW...I have nothing good to say about that arena. I was in there the other night...All I saw buzzing around were Hurris and Fm2s. I was outnumbered 3 to 1 just about every fight (was fighting the same 3 people for the most part). I couldn't turnfight withthem, so I tried roping them (I was in a 38) They would complain of picking everytime I'd do that :confused:
It was even worse than LW, I was pretty disappointed. you won't find stuff like that going on in the AvA.
Next time we got some good #s in there I'll see if you're on and shoot you a PM :salute
I check AvA numbers every time I log in, shoot me a PM any time...
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You would have enjoyed the BostonIII vs the Emil and the 110c. It was a lot of fun even though my bus was shot down far too often.
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The Checkertails are barely on as it is. I heard Joedog might be coming back so you never know. He and I used to frequent the AvA.
Kuhn,
The Joedog was sited doing some damage in the AvA last night. Just a lil secret, if you catch him fiddling with his TrackIR settings and be very, very quiet..... you might just get an easy kill. :furious Otherwise, be prepared for a good fight. :salute
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You would have enjoyed the BostonIII vs the Emil and the 110c. It was a lot of fun even though my bus was shot down far too often.
Yep, had some really fun fights in the Boston against Tbarone in his emil. All I kept thinking was.....weeeee!
<S> Tbar
Jenks
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You would have enjoyed the BostonIII vs the Emil and the 110c. It was a lot of fun even though my bus was shot down far too often.
I'm sure Tyrant was cursing me the night I was on. On a couple/three of occasions, he had an Axis fixated and dragging straight while I came in to clear his 6 -- only to watch said axis completely ignore the .303 raindrops gently tickling his wing while he finished off his prey.
(poor Tyrant)
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Kuhn,
The Joedog was sited doing some damage in the AvA last night. Just a lil secret, if you catch him fiddling with his TrackIR settings and be very, very quiet..... you might just get an easy kill. :furious Otherwise, be prepared for a good fight. :salute
I meant the joedog in my squad. Is that the same guy?
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I can't be certain, but I was pretty sure it was your Joedog. Also, awesome fights today with Tankman. :salute Good to see you there too Kuhn.
Tankman in a P51 (flew it like a helicopter) :noid and me in a 109 G14 (flew it like a rock) :lol We had some good fun stall fighting, Tankman would only give me a glimpse of his pony as we both seemed to stall at the exact same moment. We started somewhere low about 3 - 4 k and ended up somewhere above 13 or 14 k. Now, that kind of stuff with other pilots is what AvA IS all about. :salute
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OM, to put my 0.02 in:
You're not going to see many squadrons picking the AvA as a home arena while the AvA is seen as a place where the rules are many and varied and the only way to know what they are is to break em. And then of course, they change. CT staffers need to play in the arena or lose their status/privs. When you've got staffers who actually play in the arena regularly and you've got staff in there most of the time, you'll find most of the problems with the arena will get fixed and your player draw will be higher.
Cheers,
asw
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Well, first of all the only way to see the AvA at all is to come see for yourself. The rules that are broken are the same as in any other arena, with the exception of the NO PORK RULE. None of that is the CM's fault, until you discuss with them why the arena has to be reset manually, unlike the Main Arenas, it is hard to blame anyone for doing all they can to prevent it.
I suggested that the Arena Message include specific rules for new events, and pretty much I believe they are.
Squadrons don't need to make the AvA their home. A few squadrons had specific nights that they flew there. A lot of these squads also used the arena to practice for FSO and other upcoming events (not a bad idea at all). Even I don't push certain setups and always look to balance the one sided affairs, by changing sides.
To agree with you on a point, I recently saw a squad new to the arena, doing some practice and joined in for some of the fun. I heard some discourse from the newer players about the planesets. This is because they were forced to use planes that hardly anyone would think of flying without ENY being 30, having to compete with Me262s, Bf109 K4s, La7s, F4Us, etc. Not because the planes were crap, but because were not used to their strengths and tweaks (convergence, flaps, etc.) Actually, that particular setup was the most evenly match that I can recall in some time.
Then, the next day I read in a thread somewhere how horrible that squadron was (unlikely). :uhoh I found most of them to be very professional. They warned me from the start that they were practicing as a squad and I would most likely be attacked by groups and not 1v1s. When the numbers are large, that IS what you should expect.
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for the life of me, i dont understand people. first there are not really any set rules in the AVA other then the encouragement to be respectful to other players. that rule is mostly ignored! everyone seems to think civil gameplay is comparable to the anti-christ! no one is forcing anyone to be civil. However, you get what you give. certain groups will ho if you ho first, will gang if you gang, will pick if you pick, etc. etc, etc.
the biggest problem i think is the planeset. the little scriptkiddies dont like it because they cant fly their Super Uber spit16's, typhoons, Hurri2's and other dweeby aircraft. the other people dont like it because of the same reasons.
this arena is about having fun with a short planeset and learning how to fight with less agile aircraft. fighting a bf-109e vs hurri 1 or spit 1 is a workout. its not get in, kill and get out. thats what makes it different.
you have to work for the kill, it doesnt come easy (unless you're behind me). the idea is to make it more realistic and more of a ACM arena. 6 people diving in on 1 poor soul happens but its not that often. ho'ing occurs but if you dont ho, you wont get hoed back. i personally keep my finger on the trigger, if i see tracers, you get a face full!! if i dont, i fly by and get into the fight. its pretty simple.
example, i shot up potnpans last night, his engine smoking and fuel pouring out. when it quit, i just left him and flew by. of course one of my squaddies nailed him but i let him go because he was helpless and it wasnt a good fight. thats just me.
the planeset scare people because they have no advantage. the idea is to level the playing field. i go up against guys and have a decent shot at winning. i fly in the MA's with the same plane and im dead before i get started.
give the arena a chance. some nights are good, some nights are not. just depends on players and attitudes.
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However, you get what you give. certain groups will ho if you ho first, will gang if you gang, will pick if you pick, etc. etc, etc.
Now there's a recipe for disaster. A certain group takes it upon themselves to be jury and judge of when others are playing respectfully, and dishes out the worst this game has to offer if they perceive an infraction. :rolleyes:
No wonder the AvA is what it is.
If you want to encourage a certain kind of behavior, you have to model it even if it doesn't seem like the other guy will follow. You have to keep at it regardless. First, your initial impression might be mistaken. Second, if you are correct, modeling good behavior is the only thing that might change his mind. Third, if you meet bad behavior with bad behavior, it produces more of the same, not the opposite.
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Stopped in for a few hours on Saturday. Reminded me how bad I am in German rides. Tankman just wouldn't get in front of me. Had a good time. :D
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Now there's a recipe for disaster. A certain group takes it upon themselves to be jury and judge of when others are playing respectfully, and dishes out the worst this game has to offer if they perceive an infraction. :rolleyes:
No wonder the AvA is what it is.
If you want to encourage a certain kind of behavior, you have to model it even if it doesn't seem like the other guy will follow. You have to keep at it regardless. First, your initial impression might be mistaken. Second, if you are correct, modeling good behavior is the only thing that might change his mind. Third, if you meet bad behavior with bad behavior, it produces more of the same, not the opposite.
Do you ever fly in the AvA or just post whine after whine on the bbs? The world wonders aloud...
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If you want to encourage a certain kind of behavior, you have to model it even if it doesn't seem like the other guy will follow. You have to keep at it regardless. First, your initial impression might be mistaken. Second, if you are correct, modeling good behavior is the only thing that might change his mind. Third, if you meet bad behavior with bad behavior, it produces more of the same, not the opposite.
LMFAO. When we did try to 'encourage a certain kind of behavior' by asking people not to ho, pick, gang, etc. we were met by "you have no right telling us how to fly", and skuzzy even came in and edited our posts. Now you say we should "keep at it regardless"? I for one am done with ask people not to do those things. If they want to HO me then fine Ill HO back and laugh at you when they die. They want to vulch then Ill roll a tank on to your field and shut it down. They want to pick then Ill grab alt from a back base and pick every fight I see. The only problem with that is apparently its bad only when a certain group of people do it and when others do it people turn a blind eye.
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LMFAO. When we did try to 'encourage a certain kind of behavior' by asking people not to ho, pick, gang, etc. we were met by "you have no right telling us how to fly", and skuzzy even came in and edited our posts. Now you say we should "keep at it regardless"?
Yes, if it is your desire to see a behavior modified in an environment where you have no authority and no codified rules with which to coerce, your best chance for getting what you want is to model the behavior you would like to see and hope for the best. Polite and friendly suggestions are fine, but when someone suggests that they change their behavior, people pay more attention to actions than words.
The only problem with that is apparently its bad only when a certain group of people do it and when others do it people turn a blind eye.
I know what you're getting at here. You're saying that when others pick, run, or gang they receive little attention for it, but if JG54 does it they're called out for it. In fact, this is true and I agree with you. My paragraph above gives you my opinion for why that happens.
Good luck.
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What I believe is part of the problem, is that many players assume JG-54 is a formal squad with a defined leader, chain of command, and flight doctrine.
JG-54 is more like a flying episode of Cheers (sometimes Seinfeld). Just a bunch of guys who've worked a long day and enjoy flying cartoon airplanes together at the end of the day. Some of us never HO, some HO only when HO'ed first, some HO regularly. Some of us never smacktalk, some smack occasionally, some smack all the time. So a HO or comment from one of us should not be seen as an affront by the entire squad.
I don't blame people for confusing us, since most squads in AH are structured. When you think of JG-54 think more McHale's Navy less JAG.
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What I believe is part of the problem, is that many players assume JG-54 is a formal squad with a defined leader, chain of command, and flight doctrine.
JG-54 is more like a flying episode of Cheers (sometimes Seinfeld). Just a bunch of guys who've worked a long day and enjoy flying cartoon airplanes together at the end of the day. Some of us never HO, some HO only when HO'ed first, some HO regularly. Some of us never smacktalk, some smack occasionally, some smack all the time. So a HO or comment from one of us should not be seen as an affront by the entire squad.
I don't blame people for confusing us, since most squads in AH are structured. When you think of JG-54 think more McHale's Navy less JAG.
From the JG54 website and I quote:
"We are a highly organized group that enjoys shooting at cartoon airplanes from our virtual cockpits. The squad has hierarchical structure, and strict regulations. We follow our leader and his orders to a fault. We like to participate in organized game play or squad operations. Most what we do is have lots of fun at someone elses expense."
:lol
Larry I did enjoy the schooling you gave me the other night in the AvA. Man I have a long way to go, your great in that 110! I like what the AvA has to offer lately and will be back for more. I was a little disappointed when the first 2 fights ended before I got my gear up, but after that things went better.
<S>
spelling...
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:rofl
We have a website? Come fly with us one night, you'll see what I mean. :)
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Yeah, I'm making it a point to fly in the AvA more often, if it has more than 4-5 people I will head strait there. I would gladly fly with JG54 in the AvA one of these nights. See y'all up there! <S>
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That's a good find twizzty. :lol
I'm a big believer in judging individuals based on their own character and not based on their squad membership; I'm not a fan of tribalism (in the same way, I don't judge a squad based on one of its individuals). That said, I still find it hard to listen to one guy tell me to fly a certain way when his own squadmates are doing the exact opposite. If it's important enough to you that certain standards of behavior be observed, I expect you to have your own squad-mates observing that standard before you come after me. Otherwise it's just a double standard.
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When you think of JG-54 think more McHale's Navy less JAG.
I think "Navy" alright.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBXu-iY7cw
:D
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Ok...my turn to post.
The reason I think most people "encourage" no Hos, picks, gangs etc. Is because the "veterans" or AvA regulars try to teach/get better the way to fight a 1v1. Before I came to AvA. I was a BnZ tard that would make many mistakes in a 1v1. Then I came to AvA around Thanksgiving. Oh man did I learn alot that first week. I had no idea wtf a good merge was. Then I started learning, learning nice reversals and how throttle management is key. If a noob would just come to the AvA just for a few days and fly with the regulars and listen to them. He will get an understanding of beginning ACM and how to win fights. Let me use this as an example....
I was fighting blunoser in the AvA a few days ago. He didnt even know what a merge was...all he did was HO then turn and HO. He snapshoted me twice by just lucky shots. Finally around 7 times in a row I avoided the HO and shot him down easily. So over PM's he called me a noob and no sense of ACM. I told him...the P38 is a challenge for ya....go talk to b4buster. He said Stfu, so this was utterly surprising to me. So after a few words were talked. the .squelch command works :aok. Few hours later...I found out its just w09 and not worth my time.
So the point of the story is that. Is that a the AvA is a hardcore training arena. Because #1 we're good pilots, #2 We fight one way and thats to improve our skills #3 You will become a better pilot when you learn from the regulars.
Hope yall understand
:salute
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I think "Navy" alright.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBXu-iY7cw
:rofl
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I know what you're getting at here. You're saying that when others pick, run, or gang they receive little attention for it, but if JG54 does it they're called out for it. In fact, this is true and I agree with you. My paragraph above gives you my opinion for why that happens.
Well no, I wasn't talking about that. What I was saying is there are some people that come in the arena and bring their MA tactics in with them. They'll pick and HO every in every fight but when asked to please stop they get mad and say ''its their $15 and they can do what they want'', which is true. Then after a while those people that asked him to stop get tired of his dweebyness and pick or HO them back then that's when they blow a gasket and say comments like ''I thought you guys don't HO, pick, vulch, gang, etc. in here'' or they just call you lame or a hypocrite. Then sometimes they come in here and say that they wont be playing anymore because of the game play is just like the MA. Which ironically where they go right back to.
As for the 'its not okay for JG54 to do it' its true. When we do something that others do on a regular basis the BBS and game is flooded with whines, but ignored when others do it. Its been like that for a very long time and even when we take a break from the arena we are still blamed for people leaving.
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From the JG54 website and I quote: :lol
Larry I did enjoy the schooling you gave me the other night in the AvA. Man I have a long way to go, your great in that 110! I like what the AvA has to offer lately and will be back for more. I was a little disappointed when the first 2 fights ended before I got my gear up, but after that things went better.
<S>
spelling...
edit
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So the point of the story is that the AvA is a hardcore training arena. Because #1 we're good pilots, #2 We fight one way and thats to improve our skills #3 You will become a better pilot when you learn from the regulars.
Fudgums, every arena is a training arena in some sense, ;) but I get what you're saying. 1vs1 fights are a lot of fun, but to be a working standard of AvA combat there's a narrow range of conditions that have to be in place:
- Fewer than 10 players in the arena
- Everyone wants 1vs1 fights
- An Axis-Allied aircraft matchup where most performance traits are similar
That last point is underestimated. Unless you call e-fighting the crap out of a SpitV with a 190A-5 a good 1vs1 fight, that matchup will never work, yet it's historical and shows up now and then. Or, A6M vs F6F? That's also a historical matchup and makes for lousy 1vs1 fights, unless, again, you call e-fighting the crap out of the other guy a good duel.
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Unless you call e-fighting the crap out of a SpitV with a 190A-5 a good 1vs1 fight, that matchup will never work, yet it's historical and shows up now and then.
depends on who's flying the 190! :)
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Unless you call e-fighting the crap out of a SpitV with a 190A-5 a good 1vs1 fight, that matchup will never work, yet it's historical and shows up now and then.
Ah, rolling back the years!
Back at the beginning of 2006 we had a staff member named Sable, who created an ETO rolling plane set that covered the entire period from 1940 through 1945. It was compressed, of course - I can't remember the manner in which he figured out how to keep the compressed time proportional to real life - but still it took more than a month to run it. One of the remarkable things was seeing how long the British were fighting Spit 5s against 109Fs and 190A5s; it seemed to take forever before that plane set changed. True to history, the FWs - once the Luftwaffe people learned how to fly them - absolutely dominated the Spit 5s, and it wasn't until the IX showed up that things evened out again.
Not that the RPS story directly relates to your discussion here, but it was a lot of fun and it occurred back when we had a few different squads who regularly came to the AvA.
- oldman
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A long time ago there was a two week rolling plane set created by peril. It's been used quite a bit over the years and does a good job of recreating the "swings" as one side introduces a new design and then the other counters. I'm sure the timeline could be compressed into one week, but this wouldn't really allow players much time to enjoy the generational ebb and flow of each new match up; and yes I remember the Spit drivers getting beat up during the 2-3 day dominant period of the 190 within the two week set up. I also remember how the zeke dominated the early war PTO only to be dominated itself by the later war USN planes.
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I generally try not to post much in the forums anymore, but I do have to say that I disagree that the AvA has to be a 1v1 area. The problem is that generally the only larger squad in the AvA is JG-54, so squad tactics generally can't be performed without it being a real pain for everyone else. Many times we'll split between the sides and try squad tactics with whomever happens to be on similar sides.
There is a misnomer that the AvA must be 1v1's to be fun. I don't think many people are really saying that. There's a difference in a 2v1 or 2v2 etc and someone racing in from the wild blue just to pick and run away.
One of the best fights I've had in the past month was a 3 vs me in the Late war arena. 2 Ki-84's and a Spit 16 against my C.202. The trio had a good teamwork setup.
The thing is, I knew I was going into a 3vs1 so I was prepared. I think the main gripe in the AvA is they see a high con circling so they assume they are in a 1v1 and ignore the other guy, then he comes in for the pick.
If a few squads can be formed out of the squadless guys who frequent the AvA, I think we can have a lot of fun doing 5 vs 5 etc. I thought we'd see some of that when this big squad came into the AvA for their squad night. (I forge the name) But they left shortly after coming in.
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I thought we'd see some of that when this big squad came into the AvA for their squad night. (I forge the name) But they left shortly after coming in.
The one that PMed and told some of on range to leave because they were having a squad training night?
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Larry,
Not to step on Republic's answer, but I believe that you had a similar experience that I did. The PM was polite and I was on my way to work in a matter of minutes so I replied, and told them to enjoy their practice and to come back.
My first initial feeling was, "Who gave them the right?" But since, we had been talking on country vox previously and he had explained what they were doing, I found that his request was merely to leave the area in which they were engaging. In this case the AvA was no different from any other night, if I had chosen to stay and look for fights from any of the other numerous bases.
You and I had a brief encounter (which I loss rather quickly) and if my schedule had been any different, it would have been my pleasure to oblige you with some target practice. :D
I think that you and I, and the majority of the regulars to the AvA, enjoy the kind of adventure provided by multiple contacts. So, seeing the numbers above 20 in the arena, and logging in and being asked not to participate was quite a tease. :noid
But one thing that the squad's activity did, was draw more attention to the arena as an alternative to the others and consequently brought more players in than an arena showing 0- 3 players logged in.
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I never understood why they didn't just move to a corner of the map...instead of upping right where we were already fighting lol
It was a huge map, many places to fight.
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The arena is back to 0 whenever I log on. :confused:
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However, you get what you give. certain groups will ho if you ho first, will gang if you gang, will pick if you pick, etc. etc, etc.
the planeset scare people because they have no advantage. the idea is to level the playing field. i go up against guys and have a decent shot at winning. i fly in the MA's with the same plane and im dead before i get started.
give the arena a chance. some nights are good, some nights are not. just depends on players and attitudes.
Seeing as you were HO'ing, ganging and picking after you posted your "Etiquette thread." You shouldn't really be having a say on this. I was on the side with Republic, Larry and B4. We weren't HO'ing, were outnumbered (ganged) and picked.
If you're gonna post this kind of hypocritical stuff to flip your nose to Gavagai, make sure you are covered. In this case, you aren't even close.
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Seeing as you were HO'ing, ganging and picking after you posted your "Etiquette thread." You shouldn't really be having a say on this. I was on the side with Republic, Larry and B4. We weren't HO'ing, were outnumbered (ganged) and picked.
If you're gonna post this kind of hypocritical stuff to flip your nose to Gavagai, make sure you are covered. In this case, you aren't even close.
ah yes, another ray of sunshine from someone that never flies AVA. :aok
as for me hoing ganging and picking, i pretty much doubt that. ask anyone who knows me! ah but then again thou knowest all!
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ah yes, another ray of sunshine from someone that never flies AVA. :aok
as for me hoing ganging and picking, i pretty much doubt that. ask anyone who knows me! ah but then again thou knowest all!
You did and your hypocrisy is why a lot of folks do NOT fly in there. Your lying here is not helping your "quandry." If you changed your crappy attitude, you'd get more people in there.
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Karaya you need to just stop now. As you remember he was asking people a while back to try and fly a certain way. Then came the whines from everyone saying he cant tell them how to fly. Shortly after that the tread was locked. So the F what if he HOed, picked, did what all those other people that whined in that thread do. Why should he fly a certain way when no one else is willing to do? People don't fly the AvA because of people like you who come in here and cry about things that happened MONTHS ago. You say he shouldn't have a say in this. Why not? Seeing he flies the AvA and you don't why should you have a say in this?
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Karaya you need to just stop now. As you remember he was asking people a while back to try and fly a certain way. Then came the whines from everyone saying he cant tell them how to fly. Shortly after that the tread was locked. So the F what if he HOed, picked, did what all those other people that whined in that thread do. Why should he fly a certain way when no one else is willing to do? People don't fly the AvA because of people like you who come in here and cry about things that happened MONTHS ago. You say he shouldn't have a say in this. Why not? Seeing he flies the AvA and you don't why should you have a say in this?
Most people in life have a hard time accepting the cold hard facts. This is yet another example.
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Most people in life have a hard time accepting the cold hard facts. This is yet another example.
Yeah, whatever you say krusty. :rolleyes:
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Why should he fly a certain way when no one else is willing to do?
I try not to post in these kinds of things. But I do fly in the AvA ( although some may not consider me a regular)and I hope that it is known to all of the AvA regulars, that I never face shoot,(hot merge) even when it happens to me over and over and over. So, many times I've logged in to see on 200, "ok, the gloves are off, I'm hoing now" and then the "other" side is hoing (hot merging) everybody. Oh by the way, I've seen this comment (and watched it happen) not only from some of the 54 guys, but some other AvA regulars as well. Guys I think should know better. I've also seen the "OK, you want to gang? Fine, I'm hoing!"
My comments are directed at everyone, not any one person or squad. Gents, you can tell me to eff off, but I simply ask you to lead by example, don't hot merge, go for the angle. You see someone hoing, tell them its poor taste, not appreciated by either side and a poor tactic. They tell you to get lost...... Well if they get the cold shoulder and no help from you , maybe they get the idea and change or leave. You see 2 guys on a con, don't be the third (gang) .
My personal feeling is if the other guy keeps hoing you, then he is probably not that good. The best way to teach him a lesson is to outfly him, avoid the opening shot by gaining angles and get on his six. Of course you may get picked because maybe he's asking for help now. But if he's a known hoer, hopefully those in the know will let him learn his lesson.
Like I said, tell me to STFU, but I do try to set an example, the way Oldman does.
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Jenks I try to fight people the way I would like to be fought. I try not to HO, gang, or vulch, and I almost always ask before jumping in on a fight. When I get jumped and fought like I'm in the MA I usually ask them not to do it again. Sometimes they don't do it again but mainly I get a "you not the boss of me" or "its my $15" kind of reply. Then after that person does it again I take my gloves off and beat the living crap out of him until he leaves the arena. Thing is that when someone gets one of those type of people a taste of their own medicine they cant handle it and proceed to squeak and moan about how you are a hypocrite because earlyer you asked him not to do this or that.
They tell you to get lost...... Well if they get the cold shoulder and no help from you , maybe they get the idea and change or leave.
I for one love to do this. If your one my side and like to clear my 12 o'clock without asking if I need help then I wont give you check six's or help you in any kind of fight. I don't this a few times to at least one person posting in this thread. I would just circle the fight and watch and a few red guys gang that person. Then when he would get killed Id jump in. But I guess that's another reason people don't come into the arena. :rolleyes:
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Jenks I try to fight people the way I would like to be fought. I try not to HO, gang, or vulch, and I almost always ask before jumping in on a fight. When I get jumped and fought like I'm in the MA I usually ask them not to do it again. Sometimes they don't do it again but mainly I get a "you not the boss of me" or "its my $15" kind of reply. Then after that person does it again I take my gloves off and beat the living crap out of him until he leaves the arena. Thing is that when someone gets one of those type of people a taste of their own medicine they cant handle it and proceed to squeak and moan about how you are a hypocrite because earlyer you asked him not to do this or that.
I for one love to do this. If your one my side and like to clear my 12 o'clock without asking if I need help then I wont give you check six's or help you in any kind of fight. I don't this a few times to at least one person posting in this thread. I would just circle the fight and watch and a few red guys gang that person. Then when he would get killed Id jump in. But I guess that's another reason people don't come into the arena. :rolleyes:
I never mentioned you Larry and this proven by my first post. You only "read what you want to read." You guys are so bent on being the "Bad Boys of AH", that you miss the bigger picture when you are staring at it.
Topics like this where folks cannot be truthful are identical to the layers of Onion. You peel away one lie and guess what? More lies are underneath. My point is you guys "would like more participation in AvA". If you shelved the BS, crap stirring, "we're better than you attitude", you'd get further along in having "more participation."
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wow, is there anything you dont know?? i need to order an encylopedia karaya! :)
im really sorry you dont play in the AVA maybe you should try sometime. you seem to be very encouraging to other players to come in and try it out.
in my opinion you're an outstanding spokesman for the AVA keep up the good work!!
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More lies are underneath. My point is you guys "would like more participation in AvA". If you shelved the BS, crap stirring, "we're better than you attitude", you'd get further along in having "more participation."
You want the truth? I don't want "more participation" because then people like you come in and cry when you get killed because you aren't good enough.There I'm the bad guy. Deal with it. :rolleyes:
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Have you got your answer yet Oldman?
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Have you flown the AvA this year? No. Okay just thought Id ask.
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This is done.