Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Scenario General => Topic started by: Brooke on December 06, 2017, 11:51:59 PM
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Howdy, all.
Some folks have asked to submit ideas for setups for the February, 2018 Scenario.
So, we are opening it up to suggestions.
If you have a suggested setup, please post a summary as:
Title
1-3 sentence description
List of types of action it will have
Estimated plane set
For examples, see the entries already given as suggestions below.
What we will do is gather suggestions for a week or more, put them into a list, then vote on it to see what are the top 3 choices. Once we have the top 3 choices, we will vote on which is the top choice.
Then the scenario team will put together a starter design document, and we will start the design discussion, where players can give suggestions for adjustments.
If you do submit a setup idea and it wins, we will consult with you on the design details, and you are welcome to participate in the design discussion. However, to be clear on the process, the scenario team still must be the final arbiters of design decisions and alterations and makes no promise regarding the final form of the design out of the design process.
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If you have opinions on the suggested setups people give, please feel free to make them -- if you can be reasonably civil about it.
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Suggestions so far:
Nuisance Raids 1942
RAF and Luftwaffe trading blows following Battle of Britain.
Fighter combat, attack, tactical bombing.
Estimated planes sets are:
Luftwaffe: Bf109F-4, Bf109G-2, Fw190A-5, Bf110C4-B, JU88A-4
RAF: Spitfire V, Spitfire IX, Hurricane IIb, Typhoon Ib, Boston III
Pantelleria 1943
Battle for Pantelleria.
Fighter combat, tactical bombing, antishipping.
Estimated plane sets are:
Luftwaffe: C202, C205, BF109G-2, BF109G-6, FW190A-5, JU88A-4
USAAF: Spitfire V, Spitfire IX, P-40F, P-38G, B-25C, B-26B
Alpine Oil Struggle
A progressive battle over Northern Italy and Austria focusing on axis oil production in 1942-1943.
Fighter combat, bombing, anti-shipping.
Estimated plane sets:
Frame 1: Boston III/A-20G (jabo), Spit5/Seafire, C202, 109f4, 110c4 (jabo)
Frame 2: Boston III/A-20G/B-25C, Lancaster, Spit5/Spit9, P-38G C202, 109f4/109g2 110c4/Ju88
Frame 3: A-20G/B-25C, B-24, Spit5/Spit9, P-38G/P-38J C202/C205, 109F4/109G2, Ju-88/Fw190A4
Frame 4: B-25C/B-26, B-24, Spit9/Spit8, P-38J, C205, 109G2/Fw190A4, Ju88/110G (jabo)/Fw190F8 (jabo)
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Do something totally out of the ordinary. Build it around the Soviet attacks on Japan in August 45. Latewar Japanese vs latewar Soviet. I know in reality there was little if any air combat, but it would be a different airwar with Yaks, Sturmi's, Tu's and LAs vs Ki 84s, N1Ks, the newly done Ki-67 and all that.
That or do a fictional border clash early with I-16s and Oscars just for giggles
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The Vistula-Oder offensive. It's been a good 18 months since a East front scenario, and the plane set seems evenly matched matched.
190D and F8's
Bf109k and g-14
Yak 9u and 3
La7
Tu2
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Suggestions so far:
Nuisance Raids 1942
RAF and Luftwaffe trading blows following Battle of Britain.
Fighter combat, attack, tactical bombing.
Estimated planes sets are:
Luftwaffe: Bf109F-4, Bf109G-2, Fw190A-5, Bf110C4-B, JU88A-4
RAF: Spitfire V, Spitfire IX, Hurricane IIb, Typhoon Ib, Boston III
Pantelleria 1943
Battle for Pantelleria.
Fighter combat, tactical bombing, antishipping.
Estimated plane sets are:
Luftwaffe: C202, C205, BF109G-2, BF109G-6, FW190A-5, JU88A-4
USAAF: Spitfire V, Spitfire IX, P-40F, P-38G, B-25C, B-26B
Alpine Oil Struggle
A progressive battle over Northern Italy and Austria focusing on axis oil production in 1942-1943.
Fighter combat, bombing, anti-shipping.
Estimated plane sets:
Frame 1: Boston III/A-20G (jabo), Spit5/Seafire, C202, 109f4, 110c4 (jabo)
Frame 2: Boston III/A-20G/B-25C, Lancaster, Spit5/Spit9, P-38G C202, 109f4/109g2 110c4/Ju88
Frame 3: A-20G/B-25C, B-24, Spit5/Spit9, P-38G/P-38J C202/C205, 109F4/109G2, Ju-88/Fw190A4
Frame 4: B-25C/B-26, B-24, Spit9/Spit8, P-38J, C205, 109G2/Fw190A4, Ju88/110G (jabo)/Fw190F8 (jabo)
I'd say Nuisance Raids or Alpine Oil Struggle, but if it were me, I'd push this back to March or April just simply so we can have time to organize dedicated CO's, build the scenario, and get actual numbers for a scenario instead of what we've been having. Just my two cents :cheers:
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Excellent suggestions so far. :aok
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Do something totally out of the ordinary. Build it around the Soviet attacks on Japan in August 45. Latewar Japanese vs latewar Soviet. I know in reality there was little if any air combat, but it would be a different airwar with Yaks, Sturmi's, Tu's and LAs vs Ki 84s, N1Ks, the newly done Ki-67 and all that.
I like what-if's like that.
A lot of folks don't like what-if's, but some of them could be really cool. Soviet vs. Japan like you say, or Soviet vs. US ("Patton's Gambit", where the US cuts north from Italy and walls the Soviets off, and you get conflict of P-51D's, P-47M's, maybe F4U-4's, B-26's vs. La-7's, Yak-3's, Tu-2's). I'd love to fly in stuff like that some day.
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If I might counter that 1945 Japan-vs-Soviet idea, the problem is that the Japanese planeset (while improving) still isn't quite fleshed out. We still would have Ki-84s as the primary plane for the Japanese.
I think it's interesting, but maybe not ready for "Scenario" interesting. Maybe more "FSO" interesting. It would be basically 4 frames of Ki-84s against Yak-3s and La-7s, with a smattering of Tu-4s and Ki-67s. I'm just not seeing that at the moment.
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Lots of good suggestions here. Anything that hasn't been done in a while is my preference. Will the next scenario be a 12 hour format, or 4 frames?
I'd be up for something early War in the CBI. It's been a while since a CBI-based scenario; Road to Rangoon was last run back in May 2011. Since then I believe we've gotten the Ki-43, however I don't see a Rangoon terrain for download anymore.
Might be fun to use the Java42 or Malaysia terrains, maybe we could include the battleship group as the HMS Prince of Wales and Repulse and have the Japanese try to sink her as part of a Fall of Singapore campaign?
RAF, RAAF, RNZAF Hurricanes and Brewsters vs Ki-43s, A6M2s and G4M Bettys. Japanese bombing raids on cities, airfields, ports. Allied air defence, and maybe fighter raids against Japanese airfields. The new Pearl terrain has parked B-17s so maybe a terrain builder could modify an existing scenario terrain to provide some ground targets at airfields - G4Ms, the Japanese-skinned C-47, etc.
I'd like to see the AVG's P-40Cs involved too but I don't see a terrain for Burma...
(https://i.imgur.com/qBc4Oin.jpg)
Is the B239s performance a problem for early War CBI scenarios? I understand the Commonwealth forces flew the heavier and underpowered B339 export version of the Brewster.
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Is the B239s performance a problem for early War CBI scenarios? I understand the Commonwealth forces flew the heavier and underpowered B339 export version of the Brewster.
http://www.ahevents.net/index.php/fso-setups/37-pacific-theatre/1225-java-1942
I just designed and ran a Java FSO and from what I researched the RAF and other countries would replace or remove some of the 50 caliber weapons for 30 cal. They also removed any extra weight they could and flrw with reduced fuel. They wanted to reduce the weight as much as possible.
Even then, the Japanese were still envious of the RAF Hurricanes and Brews for their heavier armament compared to the Ki43.
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The Battle of France
(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/David_Ahlstrom2/publication/235268892/figure/fig1/AS:299774365454337@1448483187041/Figure-1-Troop-movements-and-dispositions-in-The-Battle-of-France-1940.png)
Blitzkrieg!
War has come to France and the low countries. Fast and furious action from the Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht now advance fast force movements which are pushing the French Army and British Expeditionary Force (BEF) back to Dunkirk. Can the RAF and what remains of the French Air Forces hold out until the Allied ground forces can be rescued?
Planeset
Luftwaffe: Bf109E, Bf110C-4b, HE111H, JU87D
RAF and FAF: Spitfire I, Hurricane I, Hawk 75 (P-40C), Dewoitine D.520 (Yak-7B)
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The planes from the Battle of France were significantly different in performance and numbers than those available in the Battle of Britain. Any kind of Battle of France setup would just be the BOB with a different map. And: we just did the BOB recently. Therefore IMO it's not the right time for that one.
EDIT: Also, the Hawk 75A-1 was nothing like the P-40C. Its top speed was around 305mph at 4000m. Our P-40C does just shy of 350mph at 16k. The Hawk75A-1 had a wing loading depending on the tests you look at that put it at or UNDER the A6M2 wing loading. The I-16 without the 20mm option and with 1x 12.7mm gun would be much closer in firepower and capability to the Hawk75.
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The planes from the Battle of France were significantly different in performance and numbers than those available in the Battle of Britain. Any kind of Battle of France setup would just be the BOB with a different map. And: we just did the BOB recently. Therefore IMO it's not the right time for that one.
EDIT: Also, the Hawk 75A-1 was nothing like the P-40C. Its top speed was around 305mph at 4000m. Our P-40C does just shy of 350mph at 16k. The Hawk75A-1 had a wing loading depending on the tests you look at that put it at or UNDER the A6M2 wing loading. The I-16 without the 20mm option and with 1x 12.7mm gun would be much closer in firepower and capability to the Hawk75.
Krusty,
Old habits die hard don't they. We just went through a scenario and upgraded the planes a little so that we could get guys to register. So why would we downgrade the aircraft for this event? :headscratch:
We have to begin to change our way of thinking just a bit, yeah.
Saying no is an okay answer if you don't want to fly this event for a particular reason, but we're not going to downgrade the aircraft and think that guys what to spend four weekend getting severely pummeled, right?
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There's probably not a map for it, and I've never seen a scenario like this in AH before, but... Battle of Crimea/Kuban region 1943.
This is one of the lesser known battles of WW2, while not any less important. Many aces fought in this region including Erich Hartmann, as well as Alexander Pokryshkin on the Russian side.
La5FN
Yak-7b
Yak-9T
P-39
A-20
IL-2
Spitfire V
vs
109G2
109G6
190A5
110G2
He111/Ju88
Ju87
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rkka.es%2FOtros_articulos%2F16_Pokryshkin%2F011.htm&edit-text=
(https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-EF-Defeat/maps/USA-EF-Defeat-6.jpg)
(http://www.rkka.ru/maps/krym1.gif)
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Nuisance Raids 1942
RAF and Luftwaffe trading blows following Battle of Britain.
Fighter combat, attack, tactical bombing.
Estimated planes sets are:
Luftwaffe: Bf109F-4, Bf109G-2, Fw190A-5, Bf110C4-B, JU88A-4
RAF: Spitfire V, Spitfire IX, Hurricane IIb, Typhoon Ib, Boston III
I am an absolute sucker for the Circus Raids in 1942. The aircraft are fairly evenly matched and is one of my most favorite periods to read about.
That said, with numbers like they are, I would recommend a previously run scenario that had high ratings and attendance. As much as I like innovation, I'm not sure the community would support a new design unless it was accompanied by a large amount of players. This upcoming year (2018) will be telling for the future of scenarios as well as Aces High.
Apologies for the pessimistic outlook, but I would focus on having more of the community interact with each other in events than changing events entirely. It will require a new mindset that highlight scenario advertisement within the game itself, rather than ground breaking designs. If for no other reason than to bring players who have not experienced events to embrace them as they become subscribers.
edit: It is up to us old farts to acculturate new players to the game and to events. Maybe a community focused plan?
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(https://i.imgur.com/qBc4Oin.jpg)
October 2016: Tunisia was also a 12 hour scenario IIRC.
There's probably not a map for it, and I've never seen a scenario like this in AH before, but... Battle of Crimea/Kuban region 1943-44
There is a map for it, and we're using it right now in FSO. :D It's a large scale version of it, but it does contain that area in the terrain.
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Thinking out of the box for a different type of Scenario set up, what about an Early War plane set between the Luftwaffe and RAF in North Africa with a unique challenge objective?
Both sides have one objective. Who can destroy the most objects at the same neutral large airfield?
Each side trying to gain air superiority over the target to allow the bombers in for destruction. Many different ways for each side to plan the attacks and explosive dog fight action.
RAF
B-25C with formations
Spitfires
Hurricanes
Luftwaffe
Ju-88 with formations
109s
190s
Points
Hangars - 500 points
Strats - 10 points
Guns - 1 point
Town buildings - .5 point
Bomber - 100 points
Fighter - 25 points
The point system is designed to place emphasis on first to arrive and grab the lion share of points through accurate bombing while friendly fighters ensuring solid protection while in the bomb scope.
Each side starts off with equal opportunity to win the frame. Victory will be determined by the best planning, execution and luck.
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AKKuya, what an interesting idea. I like it.
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There is a map for it, and we're using it right now in FSO. :D It's a large scale version of it, but it does contain that area in the terrain.
Ah ok cool, good stuff, perhaps a kuban/crimea scenario is plausible then if people are interested in it. :aok
btw edited my suggestion post with a few more details.
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That is an interesting idea Akkuya, I'd be willing to create a design using that method.
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Krusty,
Old habits die hard don't they. We just went through a scenario and upgraded the planes a little so that we could get guys to register. So why would we downgrade the aircraft for this event? :headscratch:
We have to begin to change our way of thinking just a bit, yeah.
Saying no is an okay answer if you don't want to fly this event for a particular reason, but we're not going to downgrade the aircraft and think that guys what to spend four weekend getting severely pummeled, right?
You're not understanding my post. That's a Battle of France suggested lineup with planes that were significantly more powerful and faster than those that were available DURING the Battle of France. It would be the same problem we just had with Rabaul 2017, on top of the other fact that we just did BOB this year also.
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I am an absolute sucker for the Circus Raids in 1942. The aircraft are fairly evenly matched and is one of my most favorite periods to read about.
That said, with numbers like they are, I would recommend a previously run scenario that had high ratings and attendance. As much as I like innovation, I'm not sure the community would support a new design unless it was accompanied by a large amount of players. This upcoming year (2018) will be telling for the future of scenarios as well as Aces High.
Apologies for the pessimistic outlook, but I would focus on having more of the community interact with each other in events than changing events entirely. It will require a new mindset that highlight scenario advertisement within the game itself, rather than ground breaking designs. If for no other reason than to bring players who have not experienced events to embrace them as they become subscribers.
edit: It is up to us old farts to acculturate new players to the game and to events. Maybe a community focused plan?
Do Operation Starky, August 43. Spits V and IX, Tiffies, RAF Boston’s, Mitchell’s and a few Mossies, vs 109Gs, 190A and 110G and or 410s. Luftwaffe defending against RAF raids into France. Map is available, area of combat is compressed due to range limitations of the fighters. Easily adaptable to either a smaller or larger crowd. Should allow for a couple of bombing runs a frame, could have fun with the weather over the Channel, etc.
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AKKuya, what an interesting idea. I like it.
:salute
That is an interesting idea Akkuya, I'd be willing to create a design using that method.
Just needs the right map and aircraft type balance for fighters.
:salute
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Thinking out of the box for a different type of Scenario set up, what about an Early War plane set between the Luftwaffe and RAF in North Africa with a unique challenge objective?
Both sides have one objective. Who can destroy the most objects at the same neutral large airfield?
Each side trying to gain air superiority over the target to allow the bombers in for destruction. Many different ways for each side to plan the attacks and explosive dog fight action.
RAF
B-25C with formations
Spitfires
Hurricanes
Luftwaffe
Ju-88 with formations
109s
190s
Points
Hangars - 500 points
Strats - 10 points
Guns - 1 point
Town buildings - .5 point
Bomber - 100 points
Fighter - 25 points
The point system is designed to place emphasis on first to arrive and grab the lion share of points through accurate bombing while friendly fighters ensuring solid protection while in the bomb scope.
Each side starts off with equal opportunity to win the frame. Victory will be determined by the best planning, execution and luck.
Cool idea, but I'm not keen on a neutral field being the central target. This is such a non-historical concept. Perhaps if there were a custom "Tank Battle" object built with destructible tank shapes it would work. El Alamein or Kursk could be perfect for this kind of design.
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Cool idea, but I'm not keen on a neutral field being the central target. This is such a non-historical concept. Perhaps if there were a custom "Tank Battle" object built with destructible tank shapes it would work. El Alamein or Kursk could be perfect for this kind of design.
Why do each Scenario needs to be "historical"? Maybe each side received bad intelligence, thinking that the base belonged to the other side. A "fog of war" fiasco that may have happened.
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Do Operation Starky, August 43. Spits V and IX, Tiffies, RAF Boston’s, Mitchell’s and a few Mossies, vs 109Gs, 190A and 110G and or 410s. Luftwaffe defending against RAF raids into France. Map is available, area of combat is compressed due to range limitations of the fighters. Easily adaptable to either a smaller or larger crowd. Should allow for a couple of bombing runs a frame, could have fun with the weather over the Channel, etc.
Looks like Martin B-26s were also involved:
http://spitfiresite.com/2008/12/operation-starkey.html (http://spitfiresite.com/2008/12/operation-starkey.html)
I think this set up has a lot going for it. A balanced plane set including the Luftwaffe is sure to be an attraction. The nature of combat would be many smallish, escorted raids over a few or single large raid, and lends itself to the 12 hour format, which has shown itself to be a popular option among players. It may also be the best format to introduce scenarios to new players, requiring only a single day commitment and being very open on the "show up" times during the day. 12 hours long with flight windows open every hour on the hour basically means a 12-life scenario, which may also be an encouraging aspect for new players.
Combine a scenario like this with in-game login adverts and we could see a strong player turnout.
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Devils idea seems interesting. Although I doubt numbers would allow for human controlled GVs, but have the GVs set up like the truck convoys in Ah2.
A. Kursk German convoy, 6 Panzers 3 Panthers, 1 Tiger and 8 SDKFZs
B. Soviet 10 T34s and 8 M3s
Attack aircraft objectives are to kill enemy GVs, fighter objectives would be to cap the respective battle areas. Maybe have an ammo strat near by for the buffs to hit.
Aircraft would consist of
Germany 109gs and 190as as fighter support, Ju87 and 190fs as ground attack, and ju88s as bombers
Soviet, La5s Yak9ts and yak7 as fighters, P39s and Il2 as ground attack, and B25s as bombers.
Ought to be evenly matched AC wise.
Weight the point allotment towards tank busting.
I would think a nice down and dirty fight like this would garner enthusiasm
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I've done the neutral field capture in FSO a few times. It could work with a scenario I think, even half of the registered participants would make a decent unlimited live GV battle.
For Kursk, T+60 GV fields would open, Tigers, Panthers vs T-34/85s, Shermans for 5 or 10 minutes, then Panzer IVs and T-34/76 open for the remainder of the event. Support vehicles like M3, SDKFZ and then M8, JEEP and M16MGMC available for both sides.
It's basically capture the flag.
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Looks like Martin B-26s were also involved:
http://spitfiresite.com/2008/12/operation-starkey.html (http://spitfiresite.com/2008/12/operation-starkey.html)
I think this set up has a lot going for it. A balanced plane set including the Luftwaffe is sure to be an attraction. The nature of combat would be many smallish, escorted raids over a few or single large raid, and lends itself to the 12 hour format, which has shown itself to be a popular option among players. It may also be the best format to introduce scenarios to new players, requiring only a single day commitment and being very open on the "show up" times during the day. 12 hours long with flight windows open every hour on the hour basically means a 12-life scenario, which may also be an encouraging aspect for new players.
Combine a scenario like this with in-game login adverts and we could see a strong player turnout.
From the logbook of a Spit XII driver I have. Last 10 days of August. Mitchells and 26s with a sweep and rhubarb thrown in. Look at the actual times. Fits right in in real time. Fighter combat would be fairly even in performance with the Spit Vs being the low end. Also note the issues with weather noted in his comments.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Logbook_zpsmxnekgaf.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/guppy35/media/Logbook_zpsmxnekgaf.jpg.html)
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Goodwood
Luftwaffe vs RAF
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I like Devils Idea.
OR
Dieppe August 19,1942
RAF and Luftwaffe
Fighter combat, attack, tactical bombing.
Estimated planes
Luftwaffe: Bf109F-4, Bf109G-2, Fw190A-5, Bf110C4-B, JU88A-4
RAF: Spitfire V, Spitfire IX, Hurricane IIb, Typhoon Ib, Boston III, Mustang P51B
You could ever run the ground battle with a Battle group of the coats landing troops while the Germans defend ( This my rope in your tankers)
Run it as a 12 hour.
OR
Or for thos super plane fellas. Expand the air battle over NIS.
November 7,1944.
The actuall battle lasted 15 minutes.
P38L CAS flight vs YAK 3 Bar cap.
But what IF ....
1 squadron of 6 P38s are to hit a targets in Serbia, Select 2-3 so the Ruskie have to fly a BARCAP. 2 Squadrons of Yak 3s
Only when contacted is intiated... do the follow on forces join...
2 other P38 Squdrons nearby on CAS drop ords join air fight.
Local LA 5/7 would be diverted in to control gain air superioity( already in air flight so limit fuel. air spawn at 75 fuel))
Local 51's would be diverted in to control gain air superioity( Already in flight limit fuel. airspawn 75 % Fuel)
Once the initial is done. Area commanders would have the task of destroying opposing forces air bases to end fight.
Run each side two smaller bases and One medium bases.
US Forces P51C, P38, J/L, B 25 H, B-26
USSR Forces LA 5/7 Yak 3/9 IL 2 TU 5
See who wins?
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Being a "dweeb" again I think the nuisance raid scenario would be a lot of fun and a good draw.
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Howdy, all.
We are closing the suggestion period and starting the first round of voting here:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,390947.0.html
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Just curious how you'd run Dieppe as a 4 frame event? It was only one day. It would be workable for a 12 hour single day event but again, you'd lose something in translation to try and stretch it to more than August 19, 1942.