Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Fencer51 on May 24, 2007, 06:07:37 PM

Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Fencer51 on May 24, 2007, 06:07:37 PM
Did Hartmann have a G-14 with the black pedal nose scheme?
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: VansCrew1 on May 24, 2007, 06:14:01 PM
109 sucks


(http://www.deltaaviation.co.uk/gifs/Planes/mustang1.jpg) RULES!!
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Geary420 on May 24, 2007, 06:19:18 PM
Its super sexy, but I don't think ive ever seen an actuall pic of it, just profiles and artwork.

(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7938/bf28hp.jpg)

EDIT - What is that hideous thing above? Is that the P39?:confused:
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Xasthur on May 24, 2007, 08:52:38 PM
^ Oooo... nice. That might replace the JG 53 winter skin I use now.....

:noid



Quote
Originally posted by VansCrew1
109 sucks


(http://www.deltaaviation.co.uk/gifs/Planes/mustang1.jpg) RULES!!



Pfft, come here and say that.

:rofl
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Treize69 on May 24, 2007, 09:58:10 PM
I always thought his tulip-petaled Gustav was a G6, that his only petaled G14 was the white one.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: killnu on May 24, 2007, 11:07:47 PM
From what I have seen/read...he was only in JG53 a short time and only flew G14 while with them.  only other plane I have seen of his are G6's.  Although, talking with Karaya other day online...he mentioned G2s and G6s.  Maybe ask him about it?!:(   Sorry not more help.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Treize69 on May 25, 2007, 02:50:18 AM
In combat he flew every G from the 2 onward, and I think the K. Trained on the E and F.

I don't have a copy handy, but an old edition of "The Blond Knight of Germany" I used to have listed all the subtypes of the 109 he flew in one of the appendices, along with what bases he flew out of and when he flew out of them (when known).
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Fencer51 on May 25, 2007, 05:38:40 AM
Geary, thats the one I was asking about.  :aok

Thanks Treize, I am unable to find definative proof of a G14 like the profile above.  What I mostly find is that the G6 he flew painted like that was essentially a G14 with all the modifications/upgrades.

I will dig out my copy of Blond Knight and look there.

Vans.. :rolleyes:

Killinu, thanks bud.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: killnu on May 25, 2007, 05:51:13 AM
He did not fly the K.  There was speculation of that....but no proof.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Xargos on May 25, 2007, 07:09:12 AM
He was transfered to a Me 262 at the end of the war, if my memory serves me right.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: hammer on May 25, 2007, 07:28:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Xargos
He was transfered to a Me 262 at the end of the war, if my memory serves me right.
No, he stayed in 109s.

Regards,

Hammer
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Xasthur on May 25, 2007, 10:24:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hammer
No, he stayed in 109s.

Regards,

Hammer


Indeed, his refusal  to leave JG 52 was what landed him in Russian captivity at the war's end, if i'm not mistaken.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Treize69 on May 25, 2007, 11:06:47 AM
Galland invited him to join Jv44 but refused, he didn't want to "abandon" his comrades in Jg52.

He had to wait until he commanded an F-86 squadron to get to experience jet flying.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: VansCrew1 on May 25, 2007, 07:10:31 PM
109 sucks...



(http://www.iol.ie/~asire/image8.jpg) RULES
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Fencer51 on May 25, 2007, 07:14:51 PM
Osprey Aviation Elite Units #15
"Jagdgeschwader 52 - The Experten" by John Weal

It has a cover painting, which I am not going to post here, that shows him purportedly in a G14 on his final flight.

Text says:

Quote
There is still a great deal of controversy about both the actual aircraft Erich Hartmann was flying on this mission, and the markings it carried.  At least one official document states quite categorically that JG52 was equipped entirely with the Bf-109G-14 (of various models) and was earmarked for conversion to K-4s 'as soon as logistical situation permits'.  But the Geschwader is known to have operated a mix of G-14s and G-10s and Hartmann himself spoke of flying both variants.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Wizkid on June 03, 2007, 03:46:15 AM
In the post war "new" German Air Force
Col. Erich Hartmann
did not command a squadron but a whole wing, the Jagdgeschwader 71 "Richthofen", JG71R (i.a. consisting of two fighter squadrons, 711 and 712, at that time).

These were the aircraft of JG71R in the 60ies at Ahlhorn airbase, nothern Germany
Canadair Sabre Mk.6:

(http://www.cavok-aviation-photos.net/Wittmund04/CL13_JA112.jpg)

The markings on this particular aircraft, the JA-112 was common in the 1960s. "J" indicated 7th letter in the aplphabet, ommitting A and I and the "A" the 1. So you had the 12th aircraft of 1 squadron 112 of the 71 wing. The Tuli markings were Hartmannīs personal touch. He acted against all sorts of regulations doing so.

@ Treize96
Quote
... He had to wait until he commanded an F-86 squadron to get to experience jet flying ...

Negative, in 1956, when the new Armed Forces of Germany were still at the drawing board, he underwent intensive jet training in the USofA before he became Commander of JG71R. During that training he broke all US-Jet Training Command Air to Air gunnery records.

PS.: During a "Tigermeet"
at Ahlhorn airbase, to which all NATO-squadrons were invited, which had a "Tiger" in the squadron crest, all the visiting aircraft had the "JG71R"-Tulip Markings the next morning after the beer call. :)
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Fencer51 on June 03, 2007, 08:17:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Geary420
Its super sexy, but I don't think ive ever seen an actuall pic of it, just profiles and artwork.

(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7938/bf28hp.jpg)

EDIT - What is that hideous thing above? Is that the P39?:confused:


BTW that is his G6.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Fencer51 on June 03, 2007, 06:36:43 PM
(http://www.4thfg.org/screenshots/HMG141.jpg)

(http://www.4thfg.org/screenshots/HMG142.jpg)

(http://www.4thfg.org/screenshots/HMG143.jpg)

No weathering or wear and tear as of yet.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: DREDIOCK on June 03, 2007, 07:26:41 PM
I still sure wish HTC would fix the overbulbus gun hubs in front of the canopy.
They are just a hair larger height wise then they should be
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: killnu on June 03, 2007, 08:44:10 PM
red heart?  or not on that one?
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: hammer on June 03, 2007, 10:03:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Fencer51
BTW that is his G6.


The profile itself is of a G14. Note the taller tail.

Also, while I've seen multiple profiles (not pictures) of Hartmann's G14 from various sources, none have been in the green / brown camo and they also show them with the number 1 vs the chevrons. What source did that come from? I do have 1 source which shows a K4 with chevrons in the Green / Gray camo. It is a speculative scheme based only on Hartmann's statement that he flew a K4.

Regards,

Hammer
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Treize69 on June 03, 2007, 11:48:14 PM
Thats a late model G6. If it was a G14 the antenna wire would connect directly to the fuselage behind the canopy and it woul have an RDF loop.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Serenity on June 03, 2007, 11:55:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Treize69
Thats a late model G6. If it was a G14 the antenna wire would connect directly to the fuselage behind the canopy and it woul have an RDF loop.


Edit: Ive seen Bf-109 G-14s where the wire connects directly to the fuselage, but ive also seen Bf-109 G-14s where there is a 'pole' (For lack of a better word) connects the two. Just one site that displays both is the following: link (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.luftwaffe39-45.historia.nom.br/aero/model_bf109g14as.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.luftwaffe39-45.historia.nom.br/aero/bf109_variantes.htm&h=172&w=639&sz=10&hl=en&start=53&tbnid=vVk63i_D9XtePM:&tbnh=37&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBf-109%2BG-14%26start%3D40%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN)
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Guppy35 on June 03, 2007, 11:58:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Fencer51
BTW that is his G6.


Luftwaffe Fighter Aircraft in Profile by Sundin and Bergstrom ID's that bird as a G14/AM

There are also profiles of two of Hartmann's G-6s in the book
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Fianna on June 04, 2007, 12:46:16 AM
That's ****ing awesome that he painted his sabres with the black tulip.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Fencer51 on June 04, 2007, 04:32:50 AM
That may be a G14 in the profile, but that paint scheme is the one he had on his G6 when he flew as Staffelkaiptan of 4/JG2 in November 1944.  It is the same one as shown Page 43 of "Jagdgeschwader 52 - The Experten" by Weal

And KillnU I have not done any detailing until the "Luftwaffe Experts" sign off on the basic plane/camo layout.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Fencer51 on June 04, 2007, 04:35:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hammer
The profile itself is of a G14. Note the taller tail.

Also, while I've seen multiple profiles (not pictures) of Hartmann's G14 from various sources, none have been in the green / brown camo and they also show them with the number 1 vs the chevrons. What source did that come from? I do have 1 source which shows a K4 with chevrons in the Green / Gray camo. It is a speculative scheme based only on Hartmann's statement that he flew a K4.

Regards,

Hammer


Quote

Osprey Aviation Elite Units #15
"Jagdgeschwader 52 - The Experten" by John Weal

It has a cover painting, which I am not going to post here, that shows him purportedly in a G14 on his final flight.
[/b]

Everything I can find has that profile above coded "White 1" as a G6.  That is why I am going with the later schemed plane which a purported expert on the Luftwaffe as identified as a G14 he flew.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Fencer51 on June 04, 2007, 04:45:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Luftwaffe Fighter Aircraft in Profile by Sundin and Bergstrom ID's that bird as a G14/AM

There are also profiles of two of Hartmann's G-6s in the book


Three sources I have identify it as a G6 in late 1944.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Geary420 on June 04, 2007, 05:59:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Fencer51
but that paint scheme is the one he had on his G6 when he flew as Staffelkaiptan of 4/JG2 in November 1944.  It is the same one as shown Page 43 of "Jagdgeschwader 52 - The Experten" by Weal
 


Is there any chance of you or someone else doing it?  It's too good to not be in the game.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: Fencer51 on June 13, 2007, 06:08:52 PM
FWIW this skin is not going to be finished and submitted.  I cannot find any reference other than the original source that he flew the aircraft depicted.

I might have a lead on a photo of him in a G14 with a black tulip nose, but not the brown and green skin depicted above.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: faminz on June 15, 2007, 02:54:35 AM
Just reading this thread I remembered I had some profiles of Hartman and a few other aces so I thought Id post them here if anyone wants them...

No G14 of course but hey... nice pics anyway...

btw this one is quoted as being the nearest to the actual colours.
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: faminz on June 15, 2007, 02:55:27 AM
and...
Title: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: faminz on June 15, 2007, 02:57:03 AM
and finally...
Title: Re: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: mipoikel on November 21, 2008, 01:06:07 PM
In the post war "new" German Air Force
Col. Erich Hartmann
did not command a squadron but a whole wing, the Jagdgeschwader 71 "Richthofen", JG71R (i.a. consisting of two fighter squadrons, 711 and 712, at that time).

These were the aircraft of JG71R in the 60ies at Ahlhorn airbase, nothern Germany
Canadair Sabre Mk.6:

(http://www.cavok-aviation-photos.net/Wittmund04/CL13_JA112.jpg)

The markings on this particular aircraft, the JA-112 was common in the 1960s. "J" indicated 7th letter in the aplphabet, ommitting A and I and the "A" the 1. So you had the 12th aircraft of 1 squadron 112 of the 71 wing. The Tuli markings were Hartmannīs personal touch. He acted against all sorts of regulations doing so.

@ Treize96
 
Negative, in 1956, when the new Armed Forces of Germany were still at the drawing board, he underwent intensive jet training in the USofA before he became Commander of JG71R. During that training he broke all US-Jet Training Command Air to Air gunnery records.

PS.: During a "Tigermeet"
at Ahlhorn airbase, to which all NATO-squadrons were invited, which had a "Tiger" in the squadron crest, all the visiting aircraft had the "JG71R"-Tulip Markings the next morning after the beer call. :)

According to "the blond knight of germany" he did flew a couple testflights in a Me262. (chapter 15) Some evidence can be found also "between the lines" from the same book.
Title: Re: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: VansCrew1 on November 21, 2008, 04:50:04 PM
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1204/529213423_7b352e27b8.jpg)
RULES


 :noid
Title: Re: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: 1pLUs44 on November 21, 2008, 05:28:56 PM
EDIT - What is that hideous thing above? Is that the P39?:confused:

Remember this, Pokryshkin made the 109 look like crud toe to toe against a P39!
Title: Re: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: 33Vortex on November 21, 2008, 05:51:12 PM
VansCrew you clown, go start a P51 thread.  :lol

This one is for...
(http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/user_images/333/411GERMAN_(LUFTWAFFE)_OFFICERS_CUFF_TITLE_l.jpg)
...only.
Title: Re: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: VansCrew1 on November 21, 2008, 05:56:38 PM
(http://sovietrussia.co.uk/wp-content/themes/vertigo-3column/images/00050/me190.jpg)

 :rock
Title: Re: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: 33Vortex on November 21, 2008, 06:05:18 PM
VansCrew, your posts are bad taste and disrespectful.

Not the treats of a fighter pilot.
Title: Re: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: 33Vortex on November 21, 2008, 06:13:00 PM
Remember this, Pokryshkin made the 109 look like crud toe to toe against a P39!

The ACE factor.  :aok

They were few.
Title: Re: Eric Hartmann and the G14
Post by: 1pLUs44 on November 21, 2008, 06:47:50 PM
The ACE factor.  :aok

They were few.

Yea :salute