Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Terrain Editor => Topic started by: Greebo on October 05, 2007, 09:23:36 AM
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I've been working on and off on this MA terrain for about six months now and have just finished laying out the fields and strat. The towns, spawn points, shore batteries and weather still need to be done. Before going any further I thought it would be a good idea to ask this forum for feedback. To that end I have drawn the initial country borders and my intended spawn points on its current TE map.
To avoid balance issues I've gone for a symmetrical field layout, although each country's clockwise half is not a mirror image of its anti-clockwise half. The bases are at around 2K high near the crater rim dropping to near sea level at the coast. The island airfields are at 1k. One thing HTC might take issue with is the high number of bases, 33 per side.
The central crater rim is about 15K high. It splits the countries at the centre of the map and acts as a deterrent to planes griefing tanktown in the middle of the crater. Three mountain range “spokes” radiate out from the crater and form the initial country borders. These mountains are about 9K high but are split by numerous valleys. You can cross the range between any two adjacent fields without making a major detour and not need to climb to more than 3-4K. A cross-range NOE goon run typically takes less than 10 minutes.
The groundwar is centered around V base hubs which in turn spawn to most of the airfields. There are also coastal spawn paths that end at the city, HQ and mainland port. The defending side has spawns from its uncapturable fields to many of the V base hubs, so these strategic bases are likely to see a lot of action.
Each country has two large islands near the borders with an airbase, a V base and a port on each. With shore batteries and PT spawns in the narrow channels either side these are going to be tough to take by CV and are fairly isolated from mainland airbases. The third CV can be used to retake an island if necessary.
I've created some new rock and snow textures for the mountainous areas, these are designed to merge with the default forest texture. They are fairly simple textures, with few colours and low resolution to keep them as small as possible. In total they make up 1060K of the 1666K res file size. The flatter areas are broken up with rivers and lakes. I realise I'll have to be careful where the roads go.
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots4/CraterMAmap.jpg)
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots4/CraterMA_SC1.jpg)
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots4/CraterMA_SC2.jpg)
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots4/CraterMA_SC3.jpg)
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Comment on the pictures of the terrain:
It looks AWESOME! I believe MA'ers will love this terrain.
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nice idea for the map and it looks like there could be alot of fights going on which will be good.
The only thing i think you should do is send a pic to skuzzy stating how high the crater is in the middle as i am not sure but i don't think they wantedsomething that high in the map circling TT. or maybe that was just for a fighter town map.
I might be wrong but before you do all the hard work of adding all the odds and sods it would be worth checking in case you have to lower the terrain a little.
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That looks pretty awesome....
!
Guy
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Thanks guys, glad you like it.
Thanks for the feedback Roger. I emailed Skuzzy a map based on the PSP image I used to generate the terrain months ago. It had layers at different elevations in various colours, like a real contour map. It was also stated in the email that the crater rim was about 15K high.
The main issues Skuzzy had with the original map were with FT bases in the crater and some spacing problems with the original base layout. As he didn't mention the rim height in his reply I'm presuming its OK. He may have overlooked it I suppose, but it wouldn't really affect anything else if I had to excavate some valleys in the crater rim later on. Some low alt clouds in the crater would protect tanktown to a degree.
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The only thing I would say, and I've said it to Ghastly....
Be careful with rivers. The deltas don't work properly. That is unless there's been a fix I'm unaware of.
And rivers must be at sea level for them to work properly with PT boats.
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I've gotten the deltas and the rivers to work properly Nhawk, main thing
is I had to edit the beach objects..
midi
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Thanks NHawk, I've read about the river problems while lurking in here from time to time. So there are no PT spawns on the rivers or near river deltas. The sea facing deltas are up estuary style inlets impassable to CVs, so anyone attempting to head up a river in a PT boat is going to have a very long trip.....
I intend to experiment putting one spawn for each country on the opposite side of the river to the target airbase with a bridge or two across the river.
Thank you for the bugfixed deltas Mrmidi.
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You welcome, how ever the bridges across the river won't work if you
intend to run PT boats thru the rivers, I haven't figured out yet
why it kills you motor any time you pass a pt-boat under a bridge,
I have place custom bridges and default bridges across the rivers,
even raised them way up high and the problem still exsists
so it apears that any thing you place across the river kills the engine on your pt...:rolleyes:
midi
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I just want to get GVs across the river, there will be no river PT spawns at all on the map. The only issue might be if someone drives an LVT into the river and then below the bridge.
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Sounds good.
BTY :aok on the terrain I think it looks great..
midi
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Originally posted by mrmidi
I've gotten the deltas and the rivers to work properly Nhawk, main thing
is I had to edit the beach objects..
midi
Unfortunately your fixed deltas can't be used in an MA terrain. Unless they've been approved by Skuzzy. They fall under the "custom object" category once you edit them.
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Hopefully the deltas will be fixed when the next TE version comes out. I doubt this terrain will be finished before then and in the meantime its nice for me to see the deltas in the terrain.
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touche' Nhawk I didn't think about that..:eek:
midi
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The fixed deltas of midi's should be allowed since they fix a flaw in the game. Midi, e-mail skuzzy with it. Heck, if it fixes their game, why wouldn't they want to use it?
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It's a little more complex than that Ranger.
In order for them to completely fix them to be used in MA terrains,
the Deltas, all 16 beach objects and ter0100.til, ter0200.til, and ter0300.tils
all have to be re-done, and the rivers as well, mine will work fine in a
SEA, or AvA terrain but thats all at this point.
But who knows maybe Skuzzy has been keeping up with this find of mine
and has already got these issues fixed for the next TE release in 2 weeks:rolleyes:
midi
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Is anyone else reminded of Trinity?
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Originally posted by Saxman
Is anyone else reminded of Trinity?
I wasn't going to say anything. But yes. MiniTrin?
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I suppose it does looks a bit like Trinity. But there are only a limited numbers of ways you can do a symmetrical layout.
When designing this I originally wanted a fighter town and also to keep the front lines seperate in the centre, so that's where the crater came from. I thought about putting the bulk of the terrain around the edge of the map and having an ocean around the crater, but it looked a bit unnatural. The field layout was then largely dictated by the one field per sector and airfield distance rules.
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really cool greebo, it's really amazing, can't wait to fly on it!
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Originally posted by Greebo
.....But there are only a limited numbers of ways you can do a symmetrical layout......
Tell me about it. It can be a pain. ;)
What I've been considering is making what I'll call pockets of bases. In other words areas that contain bases from all countries separated from the mainlands. I really haven't thought it through all the way yet, but it's an idea. And I have a feeling that it would only work well on a large map.
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That would be an interesting arena tactically. The original Pizza map had something like that. It should work OK on a small map as well, maybe make a "Y" shaped central landmass and put the islands in the gaps.
I did have an idea for "AmericMA" based on the North American continent and with bases where the RL cities are. I haven't researched it yet though so it might not be practical.
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I've done some more work on this terrain recently and got it pretty much ready to submit. Basically I've removed the still buggy rivers, remodelled the arena map, fixed some bugs and added the clouds.
If anyone wants to take a look the files can be found in the following link, just extract them to your ahiiterr folder. I'd be interested in any constrctive feedback you can offer.
http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/files/ahiiterr.zip
Note most of the cloud systems have a lifetime of 45 minutes and their start times are staggered. If you want to get the full effect you need to leave the terrain running for an hour or so. There is some low cloud cover over the tank town bases and near the islands for CVs to hide under, otherwise most of the clouds are in the border mountains. There are 121 cloud fronts but the whole thing never exceeds 832 clouds at any one time.
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I gave it the 5 minute whirl, it's late here.
The most noticeable change you can make is to create a new CBM using Photoshop, the elevation file and the type file, see any recent SEA terrain. Dux and mrmidi are experts at it, but with your skinning experience you should be able to figure it out.
I think you need to walk the track waypoints, looking for waypoints that double back. The train for the north ammo factory was acting wonky on my FE. btw, it's best if the road convoys are only ~8 miles long making the trucks run at 45mph instead of 60mph, but it's your call.
Are you sure you want the ammo factories in the center. They look pretty vulnerable and I don't think you want a side with no ordanance for hours at a time. You could exchange the refineries for the ammo factories since they're normally useless anyway, but htc might object to the game play impact of any factories out in the middle like this.
You might also want to give some thought to shore batteries.
I love the snow, but I don't think htc will accept it in an MA terrain, be great if they did.
I'm not sure about 33 bases per side for the MA but the spacing looks good, I think it'll play well in the MA. Nice job.
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Part of the reason the trains may be acting funny is because it looks like you're using CT objects for the train tracks. I didn't dive into this too far but the train bridges don't look like standard MA bridges. If you laid your tracks manually, I'd delete them all and use the editor's create all function. Then adjust what the editor creates as needed.
The CBM is minor. That can be changed when submitted if you want.
The snow textures are nice and I don't think they'll be a problem since it looks like you only changed one set of textures. There's nothing that would require a complete re-skin of planes or objects because of the snow texture. Just remember to include them in the source for the terrain when you submit it.
SBs are a good idea. But, that's something that's up to the author. I'd at least put them at the bases you consider "key bases" along the shores.
Base count isn't a problem for a small map. There are plenty of maps with fewer bases on them that are being used in the MA. They just generally reset faster.
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Those are the default tracks NHawk, I wouldn't redo all that work. I think he was trying to make sure the trucks didn't cross the fields by moving the end points. As a result, the trucks really zip along their route.
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how tall are the mountains around tt?
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Those are the default tracks NHawk, I wouldn't redo all that work. I think he was trying to make sure the trucks didn't cross the fields by moving the end points. As a result, the trucks really zip along their route.
What I was trying to say is that he did a lot of good hand work after installing them with the default "Create All".
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What I was trying to say is that he did a lot of good hand work after installing them with the default "Create All".
You're correct. I don't know what I was thinking when I looked at them.
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Thanks for the feedback guys.
IIRC the roads are the same length as the "create all" button originally made them, 10 miles. It just didn't occur to me to alter the length but I'll look at that now. Originally there were rivers all over the place that the roads had to avoid, as well as coastlines etc. As Easyscor said, the last waypoint on each road was moved one square away from the field in order to avoid the flying truck effect, ruins any suspension of disbelief when you see that sort of thing. Also I hate it when a road goes 45 degrees up or down a mountain, it just looks bogus. So I made sure the roads went on reasonably flat terrain since I was having to reposition them all anyway. I will check there aren't any extra waypoints causing the convoys to double back on themselves, I never thought of that.
There are a few shore batteries on the map. The island V bases have two each and the island ports have one each, that's 18 in total. There is a problem with my grey mountain textures in that the shore battery shares one of these textures for the hill it sits on. So for a shore battery to blend in to the terrain it has to sit on one of these grey tiles. I didn't want to create a mountain at every shore base for the SB to sit on, so I just restricted them to the islands. Most of the CV action will take place around the islands anyway.
The crater mountains are 13-15K tall. I wanted to create a terrain with three seperate fronts and the crater seperates the centre point. Also the height ought to deter tank town griefers a bit. The border mountains are about 10K but have passes between the adjacent fields which go no higher than 3.5k IIRC.
I'll consider moving the ammo factories. I put them there with a couple of spawns nearby to give GVs something else to fight over if their TT base got taken.
You are allowed to change textures in MA terrains. The problems are that they increase the size of the res file and also whether HTC think they look good enough. My textures replace the default snow and rock ones. To get the res file size down from about 2500Kb I had to halve the tiles' resolution and reduce the number of colours to around 24. The arena map was reduced to 32 colours for the same reason. The res file is currently 1286Kb, which is about the same as the admittedly larger Trinity map. Most small terrains are 500-700Kb. Although the textures are quite simple in order to keep them small, I think they break up the endless green expanses of the terrain quite well and make a nice change.
33 bases per side is the most any small terrain has. It might possibly be a problem for an early or mid war arena, but not for a late war one.
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I solve the snowy shore battery problem by lowering it, I use -149 for the altitude.
Reducing the number of colors in the CBM and textures, shouldn't change the size of the res file. As far as I know, htc doesn't use any compression when including them in the res file. The 256 color table is part of the format, but you have me wondering if it might help frame rates, I've never thought of that before.
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You mean you hide the hill below ground Easyscor? Interesting idea, anti tank bunker anyone? :) Isn't it difficult to judge range from the SB at sea level though? Also is this trick allowed for an MA terrain?
There are twelve 257kb bmp files making 3084kb plus the 1mb map bmp in my terrain's texrc folder so HTC must use some form of compression to let me get the res file down to 1284Kb.
I did some back to back tests a year or two back, putting different sets of terrain files in the texsrc folder and comparing the size of the resultant res files. I threw away the results ages ago but I remember that reducing the resolution of the terrain tiles to 256 by 256, then doubling them back up to 512 by 512 made a big difference to the res file size. The way compression works the file is going to smaller the less changes of colour you have, so making the tiles out of 2 by 2 pixel sized dots means half the number of colour changes. Another dodge I used was to make the unused part of the two ovly files all one colour.
The colour reductions made a lot less difference. I made a few modified bright batch files to reduce colours to various levels. There was a neglible reduction in res file size from 256 when dropping to 128 or 64 colours. Once you started going below 32 it got a fair bit smaller though. IIRC I settled on 24 colours as the quality got really crappy below that point.
An elevation style map would let me reduce the file size a bit more I suppose since there would be less colour changes. I quite like the map the way it is though.
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That's a good question. I lower the SBs in my SEA/AvA terrains and don't build any for the MA, they must still be on flat terrain. Maybe NHawk would know but I don't see why not.
Take a look at Tunisia or Luzon for recent examples of nice CBMs built with Photoshop using the elevation and type files.
It took me a re-read to understand what you're doing to with the textures. I'd never see the difference, but I'm color blind. :lol
:salute
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I'm a 99% noob when it comes to content creation other than offline missions (the 1% is because I have actually opened the terrain editor :rolleyes:), but I've noticed that you are able to drive GVs into structures such as barns etc (and of course hangars). Wouldn't it be possible to create a bridge out of a barn/hangar with an edited 3D model, and thus allow PT boats and LVTs to drive underneath?
Looks excellent Greebo, I'll try and download it now :aok
<S>
Yossarian
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There's already some bridge objects in the editor Yoss. Unfortunately there is a bug which means PT boats and LVTs tend to have their engine go bang when passing beneath them. That's one of the reasons I deleted the bridges and rivers from this terrain.
I've uploaded a new version of the terrain to this address:
http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/files/ahiiterr.zip
Changes include shortening the roads to 8 miles, fixing a few doubled waypoints on the roads and moving the ammo factories from the crater. I've also designed a new elevation map similar in style to the other MA maps. Here's a screenshot of the new map, the jpeg conversion has corrupted it a little but you can see the idea.
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots2/CraterMA_map.jpg)
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CBM looks good! Except, the elevation scale should go from 0 to max. It shows -3000 which isn't possible in game.
SBs for the main arenas shouldn't be put below ground level.
8 Mile roads for the MA, while not standard are allowable.
And just one other question/comment...
You said you changed the ovly files? Do you mean the alpha overlays for tile transitions? You might want to check with Skuzzy on that one, because if you solid filled the overlay alphas you've basically put the texture seaming back to the way it use to be. And that was not allowed last time I asked.
On a side note, I had a good conversation with Nuttz over the Christmas holiday about textures and how to overcome some of the limitations that are in the game now. The topic of solid filling the overlay alphas did come up. I had to quickly steer away from that. In any case, I now know why Nuttz is so good with textures. Graphics are his business, it's what he does for a living.
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I think he meant black and white alphas, as a single color results in no transitions at all, or 1/2 mile solid triangular transitions. It can be done as two colors, only you need to be very careful with the colors tile-to-tile, because you can get some ugly results.
The only hard and fast rule I know about for SBs, is the "must be on flat terrain". As Greebo points out, they look terrible if you change the "snow" terrain texture to look like snow. The other way around it is to use snow for rock and rock for snow but Greebo is way too far down the road to change it. Do you know of word from htc on a prohibition for lowering them?
Greebo, PM sent momentarily.
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I think he meant black and white alphas, as a single color results in no transitions at all, or 1/2 mile solid triangular transitions. It can be done as two colors, only you need to be very careful with the colors tile-to-tile, because you can get some ugly results.
The only hard and fast rule I know about for SBs, is the "must be on flat terrain". As Greebo points out, they look terrible if you change the "snow" terrain texture to look like snow. The other way around it is to use snow for rock and rock for snow but Greebo is way too far down the road to change it. Do you know of word from htc on a prohibition for lowering them?
Greebo, PM sent momentarily.
I fully understand how the alphas work, and it's the "No transitions at all" part is that I'm concerned about.
IMO, placing the SB below ground may be an un-needed risk in the MA as it is not "standard". But I will leave the final call to Skuzzy.
Edit: I would strongly suggest that people who are making MA terrains, and planning on removing transitions, placing SB hills below ground level or anything else that is radically different than what is seen in the MA contact Skuzzy first to discuss the matter in depth before doing so. What is commonly done in the other arenas is not normally allowed in the MA.
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Thanks for the help guys, much better if I can sort these things out now before submitting it.
I decided not to use the lowered SB idea, figured I had already given HTC enough reasons to reject this terrain. :) Apart from the hill texture, the SBs I have are conventional and are all on flat terrain. To make the snow texture of the hill blend with my rock terrain I carefully edited that part of the texture used for the hill to be free of snow.
The minus numbers in the CBM scale was just me trying to be clever. The Atlas I used for reference had ocean floor depths as part of the scale in various shades of blue and I was trying to ape that. The lighter shaded sea areas are roughly the areas of sea where the fleet course cannot be set in the game. Thought it would assist any player plotting a fleet course through the island channels in the game. I'll get rid of the minus numbers and put S/L or 0 or something on the scale.
Just to be clear on the matter, I have not changed the ovly alpha files at all. All I did was alter the ovlyxxxx.bmp files to match the terrxxxx.bmp files so the transitions blend seamlessly. Below is my ovly for the snow texture. I worked out that the centre part of the tile was not used by the game and that making it monotone reduced the size of the res file a bit, since monotone areas compress much better.
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots2/ovly0006.jpg)
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Now I understand.
The way it sounded was that you made the entire overlay one color which would have eliminated transitions. And, since I didn't look at the transitions closely when I flew around the terrain it raised a level of concern.
And so far as the CBM scale, trust me...someone would try to go below sea level and complain about the map saying they could. :)
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Take a look at your TGs.
Make sure that each FxxSHP000 is assigned to the proper port/field, (Object Data)
and the corresponding zone number,
then, make sure each has a map room owned by the TG with the same zone as the port/field.
I think you'll have a popular MA terrain if htc allows the textures.
I like the light blue shallows, is that one of your programs NHawk, or one of MachNix?
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I like the light blue shallows, is that one of your programs NHawk, or one of MachNix?
I think he did that on his own with Photoshop or some other editor. So far as I know, neither MN's or my map makers will do that.
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It's a nice touch.
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For the CBM I used the export function in the TE to get an elevation map which I then opened in Paint Shop Pro. A tool in PSP called magic wand let me select an area of black with a settable tolerance level. The area shown by the magic wand tool was flood filled to create an altitude layer on the map. I just kept upping the tolerance level of the tool to get successive altitude levels on the map.
The shallow area of sea was created in PSP too. I made a second sea layer and carefully went round the coastlines with an eraser tool to reveal the original layer underneath.
I'll recheck the TGs. It has been a year or more since I did them but IIRC I used the method suggested in Denholm's tutorial to create them. I recall that the TGs all have map rooms though.
Currently I'm adding a few more SPs which has involved a little bit of coastline reshaping in a few places. So I'll have to edit the map a bit to show that.
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Thanks Greebo.
When you kill any of the Knight TGs, they become Bish when they respawn, check Bish as well as Rook too. They should respawn as the same country as the Port.
But maybe you're Bish and intended it that way. :devil
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Curses.....foiled again! :)
I have fixed the problem with the TGs and altered the altitude scale on the map. I've also added a load of PT spawns and a few more vehicle spawns too. The latest version is up at the same link as before:
http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/files/ahiiterr.zip (http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/files/ahiiterr.zip)
I'll submit it once I have written the accompanying email. Thanks again for all your help guys.
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Ouch, I forgot, sorry.
Your PT Hanger spawns are not consistent. One time north, another east etc.
IMO it would be best if the hanger spawn always spawned just off the nearest coast so that all the rest of your PT spawns will be by the numbers.
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I spent an hour or two on Saturday trying to work out what was happening with my map's PT spawn points. Basically there was always one SP launch button missing on the clipboard, although all the SPs showed up on the map. The H button in the centre launched to the missing SP direction. The missing SP was always number 000 in the TE.
I can't see any way of creating an SP for the H button anyway. You have to set a direction for each SP as you create it in the TE and this determines which will be its button on the clipboard, not where it is physically on the map.
Later on I loaded the Ozkansas terrain offline and found the same SP arrangement problem happening there. So it seems its a bug in the offline game and that all the SPs should rearrange themselves when my terrain runs online. At least, that's my understanding of the issue.
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No, it's because the spawn point issue isn't understood.
Spawn 000 is always the Hanger, no mater which direction it's pointing. In the standard airfields and the port, vehicle spawns from the hanger are taken care of for you, but not for a PT spawn from a V-Base or A/F, then you have to actually know how it works.
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OK, so what you are saying is I should create an SP numbered 000 right next to each V base and airfield. This will become the H button SP and the others will then be arranged correctly. I guess the Ozkansas map's PT boat spawn points are also set up incorrectly then. Thanks for the heads up Easyscor.
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There's nothing incorrect about setting the H spawn anywhere you want. Especially when there's only one PT spawn at the base.
BUT, when there are multiple spawns it becomes a problem when people try to figure out where the H spawn is.
It seems you have already found out that, for air fields and GV bases the first PT spawn you set is automatically the H spawn.
For a little more detail, see this page in the AH Wiki...
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Spawn_Points
I would also suggest that before you submit your terrain that you chuck whatever reference you've been using and read the Terrain Editor section of the Wiki. You may find other things that you either have done incorrectly or differently than accepted.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Terrain_Editor
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Here's my modified checklist for submitting an MA terrain -
Check list for Terrains:
__ - Turn Zones On and make sure all bases are in the proper zone
__ - Build and check that all Field's Country ownership is correct in-game
__ - Destroy all CVs and confirm they respawn with the correct country ownership
__ - Use the ‘Standard’ button (Field Setup Menu) to enable planes
__ - ‘Redo’ track objects
__ - Walk the waypoints of the roads and remove any unnecessary waypoints
__ - Confirm the sector lines of the clipboard map match Bar Dar
__ - Check Water Not Zero
__ - Run Check Entry points
__ - Run Object Report
__ - Confirm field linking file (uncapturable)
__ - Weather file?
Edit: Review Skuzzy's MA Terrain requirements thread in the Terrain Forum.
Keep in mind that you should re-run all these checks after each correction, and again before you zip it up for Skuzzy.
NHawk, if you want to add this to the Wiki, go ahead, I haven't taken time to learn it.
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Dumb of me, I never even thought to check the Wiki. I shelved this terrain before the Wiki was written and only started looking at it again when the last TE update was released. There is a reference to the first SP being the H button in the help files too which I just plain missed. Sources I've been using include the help files, Denholm's tutorial and posts I've saved from this forum.
The Wiki highlighted a couple of errors in my terrain, the TTs and SBs had incorrect settings that were easily changed.
There is also one other issue though. The Wiki states spawn points should have the "can collide" box checked whereas Denholm's tutorial says the opposite. Before I tick that box on all those SPs can someone confirm that the Wiki is correct on this? The "change all" button does not seem to apply to this setting so I guess I'm looking at quite a long and tedious job here.
There are a few items on your list I haven't checked Easyscor. I'll run through the whole lot again before submitting it.
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<snip>
The Wiki highlighted a couple of errors in my terrain, the TTs and SBs had incorrect settings that were easily changed.
There is also one other issue though. The Wiki states spawn points should have the "can collide" box checked whereas Denholm's tutorial says the opposite. Before I tick that box on all those SPs can someone confirm that the Wiki is correct on this? The "change all" button does not seem to apply to this setting so I guess I'm looking at quite a long and tedious job here.
There are a few items on your list I haven't checked Easyscor. I'll run through the whole lot again before submitting it.
The image in the Wiki is in error, don't set spawn points as Can collide.
What you want for your SBs, is battery, and BAH. When you have it set right, it will take ~4000 lb to destroy. If you set it wrong, you can gun it down with .50 cal.
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Phew, thats a relief! Must be hundreds of SPs in this terrain, didn't fancy having to mod them all.
The SBs are now Hard Gun Batts and BAH, I'll check them for damage in the game later.
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Hard Gun Batts?
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I had the object type for my SBs set as "Gun Bat", I think I once read a post in this forum that said to do it that way. However the Wiki says "Hard Gun Bat" for shore batteries and "Gun Bat" for all other field guns so I changed to that. The SBs' name went from BAT to BAH when I did this.
The other Wiki inspired change I made was to the Tank Town object, I set it to "country owned" instead of "field owned".
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Correct on both counts. :aok
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Spawn points DO have the can collide box checked. And it should remain checked. While I don't think it makes a difference I would have to talk to Skuzzy about it to be sure that unchecking the box has no affect. Until I hear otherwise, it should be checked.
SBs SHOULD NOT be Hard Gun Bat. That was an error on my part. They should be Gun Bat. I just had a discussion with Skuzzy about this before the holidays to confirm it. But I forgot to change it in the Wiki. In the MAs, the gun bat types do not work the way people think they do.
Also while I don't think you have many of them, see the note about barges. I just added that the other day, also due to a discussion with Skuzzy.
Keep in mind that Denholm's tutorial was meant to get people started with h2h terrains. I'm sorry to say that it never even came close to meeting the requirements for building an MA terrain.
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Thanks NHawk. I've found the relevant setting in the oba file for the can collide box. It should be a lot quicker to change the SPs over from there. I'll change the SBs back over too. There are no barges on the map, just roads and railways.
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There are no barges on the map, just roads and railways.
Good man! :aok
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Just to add to your work...
When you use the ‘Standard’ button (Field Setup Menu) to enable planes, go back and disable the ME163 and RV8 at all fields. Then enable the ME163 at one of the uncapturable fields for each country.
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Oops, I already disabled the Me163 but forgot to do the RV8.
I've fixed the SBs and can collide box problems, didn't take as long as I expected although there are about 1500 lines in the oba file.
Also I have created H PT spawns for all the coastal airfields and V fields. I put them right offshore the towns and V bases which should make things interesting if the VH rebuilds during a CV attack. :t
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Spawn points DO have the can collide box checked. And it should remain checked. While I don't think it makes a difference I would have to talk to Skuzzy about it to be sure that unchecking the box has no affect. Until I hear otherwise, it should be checked.
SBs SHOULD NOT be Hard Gun Bat. That was an error on my part. They should be Gun Bat. I just had a discussion with Skuzzy about this before the holidays to confirm it. But I forgot to change it in the Wiki. In the MAs, the gun bat types do not work the way people think they do.
We know Skuzzy never makes a mistake, ;) so clearly you miss-heard him about the Shore Batteries. Set one as you suggest and shoot it with a single Panzer round. :O
I'll also stand by my no collide statement, but good catch on the 163 and RV8.
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Thanks NHawk. I've found the relevant setting in the oba file for the can collide box. It should be a lot quicker to change the SPs over from there. I'll change the SBs back over too. There are no barges on the map, just roads and railways.
Now you're catching on. :aok
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We know Skuzzy never makes a mistake, ;) so clearly you miss-heard him about the Shore Batteries. Set one as you suggest and shoot it with a single Panzer round. :O
I'll also stand by my no collide statement, but good catch on the 163 and RV8.
You cannot. At least not in the MA. If that were the case then he changes the settings on every map submitted by myself and a few others to Hard Gun Bat and doesn't tell anyone.
Don't get me wrong, in offline mode that is the result. But I contacted him about an error I was getting when they were set as Hard Gun Bat and the end result was that they are supposed to be set as Gun Bat. And that HT was going to look at the whole situation.
Quote: "Actually the term "Hard" does not mean what you think it means. It is a very different set of parameters applied to the battery."
Edit: I just sent an email about these topics again. If he sent me in the wrong direction, I'll be revoking his pizza and beer privileges for a month!
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Thanks NHawk, I was just about to PM Skuzzy myself but won't bother now. Its a shame they didn't put all this stuff in the helpfile to start with. Your work on the Wiki should make things much easier in future, perhaps Skuzzy could link to it in a sticky post in this forum.
I have kept a backup of the old oba file (once bitten, twice shy) :) so I can easily restore the terrain if need be. In the meantime I'll run through Easyscor's pre-submission checklist.
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Edit: I just sent an email about these topics again. If he sent me in the wrong direction, I'll be revoking his pizza and beer privileges for a month!
Skuzzy's going to be very cranky this month. :)
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Skuzzy's going to be very cranky this month. :)
I'll be very cranky this month if that's the case. You have no idea how much this affects me. :mad:
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:lol Tell me about it.
arden09 has 1589 spawn points and 265 Shore Batteries. Then I have roughly equal numbers in niemen and spain. Even avasml had two airspawns plus about the standard number of ground based ones.
Fortunately, I don't build my terrains with much hand work.
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I've run through the checklist and everything seems OK. I'd just like one thing confirmed though.
The field linking shows up in the TE, both on the map and in the menus. However it does not show up on the offline game's map. You can also destroy the map room at one of the uncapturable fields and it will be captured. Now I tried the same thing on another terrain and the field order did not show up offline on that map either. Am I right in assuming this is normal for the offline game?
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You are correct, uncapturable fields do not work offline.
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Any news from Skuzzy yet on the SB and SP settings? The terrain is ready to be submitted apart from this.
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Nothing yet. I'd submit it since the settings you're using are common to every terrain I've submitted and there's never been a problem.
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I didn't point Skuzzy to this thread figuring one of you did. FYI
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I'll submit it tomorrow. So long as I date the header I can always resubmit it later if I need to.
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moin
wtg Greebo looks realy cowl :-), looking forward to see this map in MA.
But why do the ports dont have spawns ?. would be cooler for the isle fight.
cu chris3
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It was a couple of years ago I laid out this terrain, but I recall I was trying to keep the number of SPs down. I think many terrains have too many, which dilutes the GV action and encourages milk running.
Having said that, I can see no reason not to put SPs to the island airbases from the ports. I imagine if CraterMA is ever used by HTC it won't be before the next version of AH comes out. After that I will have to modify it for the new terrain so I can add the extra SPs then.
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Greebo, HTC mentioned that the new version of Aces High wouldn't affect any older terrains. The only that would have to be re-worked are the tiles, as they would seem out of place.
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Yes, it may be a question of just deleting my terr and ovly files and it will instantly look fine with the new set up. I have a kind of jaundiced view of the TE that suggests things are never that simple though.....
Maybe I will need to reposition all the tile types on the map or even do some new mountain textures if the new stuff is still green everywhere. If they finally get the rivers working properly I would like to be able to put those back in as well.
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Is anyone else reminded of Trinity?
Crossed my mind. I really love the mountains Trinity hosts. Would like to see more maps with great elevation for buffs, gv's, just that "oh my gosh" business one gets now and again.
Wish trinity had more high alt bases, but the mountains, caverns, and canyons rock.
Greebo, hope your map becomes a smashing success.
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I hope it gets used. its real standard!
greebo deserves lots of bling for this chit.
even if his hellkitty is a watermelon plane and his mum goes to the chippy in her slippers. :lol
you've seen that video lynx posted right ? :D
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Sweet map! Would be a nice addition.
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Yea. Looks great. :aok