Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SIG220 on March 20, 2008, 02:35:50 AM
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It turns out that Osama Bin Laden says in his latest audio that the recent republishing of the Mohammed cartoons in Europe is an even more immoral act than America's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are.
Consequently, he says that Europeans now face "a severe reckoning".
You bad, bad Europeans. It now appears that you are NEXT!!!
See this news report for more details:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/19/AR2008031902603.html?sid=ST2008031903871
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cool
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Maybe this will mean more European troops in A-stan and Iraq.
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no
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no
You are probably right, since Spain pulled out of Iraq shortly after they had their rail system bombed by Al Qaeda.
Although only 191 people died in those bomb attacks.
If Al Qaeda instead managed to kill thousands of people in Europe, though, would not some Europeans then get angry, and want revenge?
It is really difficult for me to be able to judge how that would play out.
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Maybe this will mean more European troops in A-stan and Iraq.
Perhaps in Afghanistan but why should there be any European troops in Iraq? Looking out for GWB's WMDs?
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Well it does depend on what he does. Personally i think he is dead, but if he isnt, or if those who pretend to be him does something really massive it will get a response of some sort. I think the response will be something in the order of another EU directive and increased security.
We are sending some helicopters, more special forces and some additional troops to Afghanistan but that has been planned since october or november.
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I hope, for Europe's sake, that they counter any terrorist plans before they do any damage.
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I think you'll find Europeans are already fighting... and dying... in Afghanistan, thanks.
France and Germany should have combat troops in Afghanistan, like the British. I wouldn't expect them to deploy in Iraq since they have always been against it (which they are more than entitled to do - it is a US/UK creation afterall), but a Taleban Afghanistan is a threat to them as much as anyone.
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You are probably right, since Spain pulled out of Iraq shortly after they had their rail system bombed by Al Qaeda.
Although only 191 people died in those bomb attacks.
If Al Qaeda instead managed to kill thousands of people in Europe, though, would not some Europeans then get angry, and want revenge?
It is really difficult for me to be able to judge how that would play out.
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No its not.
france.........
naa.
I'll let someone else say it.
LOL
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europe has always been a target for middle eastern terrorism. this is not new nor is it news
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I'll agree with Nilsen on one thing.....I think Ben Laden is dead. There hasn't been a new video of him in over four years, just "audios."
He was a man who couldn't resist tweaking the noses of his enemies on a video, and varifying the fact that he was still alive and that they couldn't touch him. If he were still alive, his smirking visage would be goading us from new videos on a regular basis.
It ain't happenin'. He either died of natural causes (He wasn't in the best of health to begin with.), or one of our bunker-buster bombs atomized him in one of his little cave hidey-holes.
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See Rules #4, #5
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Ben Laden has not made a new video since before tora bora, maybe his camcorder batteries are dead?
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Bring it on, I say. Perhaps the fantasy of multiculturalism would finally come to an end, especially on the terms of muslims.
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Fishu,
While I understand what you were meaning to say, I personally would not wish something like a WTC attack on any other nation.
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Fishu,
While I understand what you were meaning to say, I personally would not wish something like a WTC attack on any other nation.
I have to agree with all of that Mav.
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While I understand what you were meaning to say, I personally would not wish something like a WTC attack on any other nation.
It will happen if the policy on immigration and minorities doesn't take a step towards realism. While I don't hope any terrorist strikes to happen, I don't either see anything to stop it from happening. If that is required to open the eyes of our leaders then so be it, rather sooner than later. I am not willing live in fear of what might happen if I don't do this or that to please the muslim minority. It is our independency and liberty at stake, dangered by the muslim minorities forcing us by fear to live by their ever increasing demands. I would rather die for the freedom than give up my life style due to fear. Either the muslims in Europe tolerate our life style without violence or they should be transported out of Europe to there where the life style is more appealing to them. They are not in the position to make demands, especially by violence and threats.
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It will happen if the policy on immigration and minorities doesn't take a step towards realism. While I don't hope any terrorist strikes to happen, I don't either see anything to stop it from happening. If that is required to open the eyes of our leaders then so be it, rather sooner than later. I am not willing live in fear of what might happen if I don't do this or that to please the muslim minority. It is our independency and liberty at stake, dangered by the muslim minorities forcing us by fear to live by their ever increasing demands. I would rather die for the freedom than give up my life style due to fear. Either the muslims in Europe tolerate our life style without violence or they should be transported out of Europe to there where the life style is more appealing to them. They are not in the position to make demands, especially by violence and threats.
Even if they set off a nuke and killed tens of thousands you can't blame all the muslims there for what just a few do.
Just regurgitating a line that has been thrown at us here in the US more than a few times.
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Europeans always had terrorists, and many nations, including Spain and Britain, have much longer experience in dealing with the threat than the USA.
BTW, wasn't the second biggest casualty terrorist raid in the USA done by a red-hot-army native?
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Europeans always had terrorists, and many nations, including Spain and Britain, have much longer experience in dealing with the threat than the USA.
BTW, wasn't the second biggest casualty terrorist raid in the USA done by a red-hot-army native?
Living with the threat I think you mean. Dealing implies they've made at least some impact on curtailing terrorist activity. When Europe gets serious about "dealing" with their home grown terrorists they will have a war on their hands that looks like the middle east.
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Even if they set off a nuke and killed tens of thousands you can't blame all the muslims there for what just a few do.
Just regurgitating a line that has been thrown at us here in the US more than a few times.
It's not simply about setting off nuke, but the current threat and violence is already altering our life style. If the muslims aren't pleased with something they go on the streets in masses and shout death to the infidels. They do that in Europe, and we allow it. It's not a big wonder if a bomb would go off, because we are way too lenient on them. We take muslims to Europe and don't even expect them to integrate - instead it is us who are expected to integrate to the whim of the outsiders. We are taking steps to please the muslims so we wouldn't have to be afraid of violence. That just isn't right. We are giving our freedom and life style away so we wouldn't have to be afraid of violence, but yet we still don't feel safe as more demands are made. This has to stop.
For example in Finland many publicly funded swimming halls have instituted saturday as the day of immigrants (= muslims), so that the immigrants could swim there in their own swimming suits without us infidels. I didn't know about this until recently, it's an outrage.
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frikin Jihadists...
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I think you'll find Europeans are already fighting... and dying... in Afghanistan, thanks.
France and Germany should have combat troops in Afghanistan, like the British. I wouldn't expect them to deploy in Iraq since they have always been against it (which they are more than entitled to do - it is a US/UK creation afterall), but a Taleban Afghanistan is a threat to them as much as anyone.
Thankfully our troops are finally being withdrawn from Iraq - and I believe that'll allow a reinforcement of our combat forces in southern Afghanistan, especially if the dutch PRT which we're teamed up with, do withdraw next year like they plan too.
Its good to see the French are going to deploy fresh troops to the south, and take off the combat restrictions...hopefully the Germans will too
For example in Finland many publicly funded swimming halls have instituted saturday as the day of immigrants (= muslims), so that the immigrants could swim there in their own swimming suits without us infidels. I didn't know about this until recently, it's an outrage.
So you want freedom - but not for everyone?
Tronsky
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What you guys fail to realise is that in EU a major amount of the population is arabic, kind of like you guys have Mexicans in the US. Consequently, we have to be carefull of what we are doing military speaking. Imagine USA sending troops in Mexico, you'll start a massive riot that would be prety destructive for your backyard. Same stuff with us.
Otherwise, nothing new there, US was still in dreamland when we were getting our subways bombed once a week. Armed soldiers in train/subways/airports is comon sight for over 15 years in EU.
as far as France not setting foot in Afganistan, a quick Google would educate :D
http://www.ambafrance-ca.org/spip.php?article1328 (http://www.ambafrance-ca.org/spip.php?article1328)
http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/France-steps-up-its-military.html (http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/France-steps-up-its-military.html)
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Well, I hope he really means france. Course, idk why. They have done more to help the enemy then the US in history. WW2 and the cold war.
As for the rest of Europe, good hunting.
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What you guys fail to realise is that in EU a major amount of the population is arabic, kind of like you guys have Mexicans in the US. Consequently, we have to be carefull of what we are doing military speaking. Imagine USA sending troops in Mexico, you'll start a massive riot that would be prety destructive for your backyard. Same stuff with us.
Deportation.
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Living with the threat I think you mean. Dealing implies they've made at least some impact on curtailing terrorist activity. When Europe gets serious about "dealing" with their home grown terrorists they will have a war on their hands that looks like the middle east.
Like many of your compatriots, you are irrevocably without a clue when it comes European terrorism. 'Dealing' with terrorism doesn't necessarily involve Blackhawks, Abrams and Carrier Groups. You don't 'deal' with homegrown terrorism by turning your country into Beirut.
Sensibly, your own country recognises that, and would much rather it happen overseas - afterall, don't we often hear around here that you would rather be fighting terrorists in the streets of Baghdad rather than Washington, as an excuse for involvement in Iraq?
That aside, 'dealing' with the IRA involved negociation and actually talking with the moderates, marginalising the extremists and eroding their popular support.
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July 7th : Multiple Bombings on london transport links, buses, subways etc 52 Dead 700 injured
June 29,June 30 2007 : Car packed with flammable gas cylinders and nails scattered throughout the interior rams into Glasgow International Airport (5 miles away from my house fyi) tanks caught fire but did not explode. Day before this happened two cars were found In london's west end packed with petrol canisters failed to detonate. It is thought they were going to explode by remote detonation when the Clubs and pubs were emptying.
So you see, it isn't just America that is under terrorist threat and attack. I know 9/11 was an absolute atroticity and my heart still goes out to all those who lost their family and their lives but we are also living under a serious threat.
:salute
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Quote from: Fishu on Yesterday at 01:25:40 PM
For example in Finland many publicly funded swimming halls have instituted saturday as the day of immigrants (= muslims), so that the immigrants could swim there in their own swimming suits without us infidels. I didn't know about this until recently, it's an outrage.
So you want freedom - but not for everyone?
Tronsky
At least in the USA, court rulings in the last 75 years or so have concluded that seperate but equal is inherantly unequal.
Setting aside Saturday for a certain group means the freedom for those outside the group is abridged... No?
Before the day was set aside, anybody could swim if they wanted to, regardless of immigration or religious status?
So freedom for everyone would then be ... anybody can swim... anytime, if you don't want to swim, then don't.
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This may be of interest to some: it is a document of IRA terrorist incidents between 1980 and 1996. Terrorism is by no means a new thing to europe. Dowding has a very good point, if tony blairs government did anything good it was to talk to the IRA. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199596/cmhansrd/vo960304/text/60304w13.htm (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199596/cmhansrd/vo960304/text/60304w13.htm)
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European nations have been fighting a clandestine "war" with radical Islam (and on occasion open war against Islam itself) since biblical times. Islamic terrorism may be a new thing in the New World, but in the Old World it is old news. AlQ may try something big, and may even succeed, but they won't change who we are and how we live our lives. The Madrid and London bombings are fine examples of that.
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so the best way to deal with it is to sit and take it and pretend it doesn't matter and.. make a lot of concessions along the way?
you could be right.. they may just go away in time.
lazs
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What you guys fail to realise is that in EU a major amount of the population is arabic, kind of like you guys have Mexicans in the US. Consequently, we have to be carefull of what we are doing military speaking. Imagine USA sending troops in Mexico, you'll start a massive riot that would be prety destructive for your backyard. Same stuff with us.
Otherwise, nothing new there, US was still in dreamland when we were getting our subways bombed once a week. Armed soldiers in train/subways/airports is comon sight for over 15 years in EU.
as far as France not setting foot in Afganistan, a quick Google would educate :D
http://www.ambafrance-ca.org/spip.php?article1328 (http://www.ambafrance-ca.org/spip.php?article1328)
http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/France-steps-up-its-military.html (http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/France-steps-up-its-military.html)
Read that, good article--France has a few hundred special forces guys helping train the Afghanis, in addition to other types troops here and there---that is what folks don't understand---it's not like the US has tons fewer guys in Afghanistan because of Iraq--Afghanistan was always envisioned as a S.F.-type operation--a few well-trained guys here and there working closely with local tribal leaders. Throwing 100,000 guys at the problem can't do what these small groups of S.F. guys are doing (I THINK the USSR tried that approach, no worky too well) The ultimate fix for Afghanistan is to squish all the Bin Laden wannabes living in the mountainous border regions of Pakistan, but some of the altitudes are so high that helicopters can barely operate there, and more importantly, it's on Pakistan's side of the border, and many folks seem to get their panties in a wad we we stomp into other folks' countries. (Last I read, Pakistan lost 600 of their OWN best soldiers trying to clean out this area at the US's behest....they don't go in there any more)
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The voice of 'Bin Laden' is merely sabre rattling.
Before 9/11 the US had very few domestic terrorist incidents, since 9/11 there has hasn't been a terrorist attack in the USA.
Meanwhile in Europe and the rest of the world have had ongoing terrorism on their doorstep in one form or another for many many years. Nothing new there. Europeans also learned from experience that gung ho, 'Die Hard' style, all guns blazing attempts to defeat terrorists didn't work.
Terrorists are defeated not in pitched battles but by carefully isolating them from potential supporters by relieving genuine grievances.
If you want an example of how that worked, you only have to look at Iraq. One of the reasons for improved security is taking former Sunni terrorists and bringing them onside. This isolated Al Qaeda. America has re-learned this lesson the hard way. These Sunnis were once killing Americans, now they are on the payroll.
This method lack the glory of firefights but it works.
The IRA is another good example of how to deal with terrorism. A big difference though is that the IRA had a genuine cause and were culturally the same. 'Bin Laden' seeks only the destruction of all the entire western civilisation AND all muslims who do not conform to his twisted worldview. You cannot negotiate with that. All you can do is to try and keep a lid on it and attempt to remove the reason some Muslims rally to his cause. Without support, he is merely an old man ranting in the desert.
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Well you see, Europe is just a short drive away or boat ride away from the Middle east. The USA is alot harder to get to and into. So they will probably attack the easier targets first. Plus, they have had planned plenty of terrorist attacks, we just got to them first.
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snip----- So they will probably attack the easier targets first.----snip---
That would be, women and children :furious
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Just few decades ago we killed millions of our own people; I hope people in middle-east remember that little thing...
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European nations have been fighting a clandestine "war" with radical Islam (and on occasion open war against Islam itself) since biblical times.
That is incorrect. Islam didn't exist during Biblical times. The entire Bible had been written for centuries before Muhammed came along and started Islam.
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That may be so, but I must point out a few oversights on your part:
1. "Biblical times" is generally considered to end in the Japhethic time period of of the 5th century with the Ladocia Council's arranged Canon of the Old and New Testament. Prior to that the "Bible" was just separate gospels or incomplete collections of gospels.
2. The prophet Mohammed lived in the 6th century.
3. The first open war between Islam and Christianity/Judaism was in the 7th century beginning with the Islamic conquest of Jerusalem.
3. The word "since" in the English language means: "in the period after a specified time in the past" (Merriam-Webster).
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Biblical times would be the time periods during which the Bible was written, not after it was written.
Definition of Biblical:
1. Of, relating to, or contained in the Bible.
2. Being in keeping with the nature of the Bible, especially:
a. Suggestive of the personages or times depicted in the Bible.
b. Suggestive of the prose or narrative style of the King James Bible.
3. Very great in extent; enormous: a natural disaster of near biblical proportions.
The Council of Laodicea did not outline the Bible as we have it today. Specifically, it omitted the book of Revelation and added the Book of Baruch and the Epistle of Jeremy. Revelation is part of today's Bible and the other 2 are not.
The Apostle John wrote the last book of the Bible, Revelation while on the Isle of Patmos. While it can be debated on when all of the books of the Bible as we know it today were compiled into one book, all of the books in the Bible as we know it were written long before the 6th century.
The first official meeting of churches which listed the twenty-seven books of the New Testament was the Synod of Hippo in 393. Later the Third Synod of Carthage affirmed the canonization of the 27 books of the New Testament in 397.
Furthermore, the Apostles Peter and Paul were already referring to books as Scripture that would later be acknowledged as part of the Canon by the aforementioned Synods. (The Apostles Peter and Paul lived while Christ was still alive. As did the Apostle John who wrote The Gospel according to John, the 3 epistles of John and the book of Revelation.)
Even if we go with when the Synods affirmed the Canon, it is still 2 centuries before Muhammed and 3 before any wars between Islamic forces and Judaeo/Christian forces.
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I forgot this part in my previous post:
Definition of the word since:
1. From then until now or between then and now: They left town and haven't been here since.
2. Before now; ago: a name long since forgotten.
3. After some point in the past; at a subsequent time: My friend has since married and moved to California.
prep.
1. Continuously from: They have been friends since childhood.
2. Intermittently from: She's been skiing since childhood.
conj.
1. During the period subsequent to the time when: He hasn't been home since he graduated.
2. Continuously from the time when: They have been friends ever since they were in grade school.
3. Inasmuch as; because: Since you're not interested, I won't tell you about it.
European nations have been fighting a clandestine "war" with radical Islam (and on occasion open war against Islam itself) since biblical times.
The definition in bold is how your statement I quoted reads to me.
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Ladocia Council's arranged Canon of the Old and New Testament
The Old Testament had already been arranged as the Scriptures before Christ came to earth. Christ himself referred to the Old Testament writings as Scriptures.
Apologies for 3 posts to answer one, it's late and I forgot to reply to various parts that I had intended to reply to.
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Oh crap, forgot one more thing. :lol
Just to clarify an earlier statement: (While it can be debated on when all of the books of the Bible as we know it today were compiled into one book)
People (Other than the Apostles) were referring to various books as Scripture (that were later affirmed by both the Synod of Hippo and the Third Synod of Carthage) as early as 95 AD.
Ok, I think I am really done now. :D
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If that is how it reads to you then I have to rephrase my earlier statement to the following: European nations have been fighting a clandestine "war" with radical Islam (and on occasion open war against Islam itself) 89% of the time past since biblical times.
And yes ... you really are more pedantic than me (which is a feat). ;)
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If that is how it reads to you then I have to rephrase my earlier statement to the following: European nations have been fighting a clandestine "war" with radical Islam (and on occasion open war against Islam itself) 89% of the time past since biblical times.
And yes ... you really are more pedantic than me (which is a feat). ;)
:D
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Sorry folks, I didn't mean to kill this thread. :o
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Sorry folks, I didn't mean to kill this thread. :o
It`s OK Elfie. I think I snuffed one yesterday with my rendition of Obama as a rock star. :rofl
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This thread was stillborn anyways ;)