Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 2fly on March 24, 2008, 01:16:49 AM
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I know this is an old story, but noone I have asked knows the answer and I am not willing to delve through years of posts to look for it.
Just what is the logic behind the LA-7 not being perked? :confused:
It is close enough to the tempest in speed as not to really matter, more maneuverable, and the guns are not that inferior. Sure the hizookas are better, but a little practice and the LA hits out to D800. Duration? bah! it goes far enough. Seems to me it should be at least 1/2 if not 2/3 the value of a temp. And if it isnt perked the the spit 14 and both corsairs should be free.
Enlighten me guys.
.salute
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Perking was introduced to prevent any plane from dominating an arena. Way back it was the F4UC which at one point had more than 20% of all kills and a very high k/d at the same time.
Perks are a balancing tool. But the LA-7 has not an unbalancing impact of any kind on the MA. Neither the raw number of kills, nor the K/D is anywhere near spectacular.
Most probably that's the reason why HTC hasn't perked it yet, despite myriads of "perk LA" threads since it's introduction ;)
In 2007, La-7 was ranked only #18 in fighter K/D's with 1.27. (Best unperked fighters Hurri II, Typhoon, 109K, all having K/D over 1.5)
It was ranked #2 in raw fighter kills, with a share of 7.25% (1st P51D at 7.73%, 3rd N1K at 7.16%)
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This thread should be locked and made a 'Sticky'.
:salute
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I haven't flown in the LALA since it was remodeled but it does seem its ''less as good'' then before the update; But no complaints here on that :lol
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The reason the LA has such a mediocre K/D ratio, or at least one of them, is that many people upp them only in desperate situations. Like when the enemy has a vulchvest going on or when your just plain outnumbered. Im also told that many newer sticks fly them but its hard to tell. Nobody with any time in the game admits to flying LAs and Im just not the type to check anyones stats.
I would rate the Hispanos as far better then the Russian cannon. And the Tempest is a far better gun platform. I begin to worry if a Tempest or C-Hog is 600 behind me but dont start worrying about the LA till 400, or even 200. If the Tempest wasnt perked then a lot more people would fly it a lot more recklessly. Most people really dont care if they get shot down in a LA. Ill also bet if most guys had to choose between gunning a Tempest, and gunning an LA, they would go after the LA. There's something about the LA-7 that just brings the meanness out in guys. I have seen an entire furball drop what they are doing and chase me in an LA. Ive never seen a Tempest mix it up with the rest of the pack anyways. Everyone Ive seen flys them like "run-90s" or "runstangs". They barrel in from 15k, HO you, and then run. But its always the LaLas that get the bad rep. :rofl
One big reason the LA isn't perked, and it should continue to not be, is that it has very short legs and doesnt have a external fuel option. That means you have to fly it to shorter ranges and for shorter times. That and it doesnt carry meaningful ords, which means its not much of a GV killer. Actually one of the toughest opponent's for an LA is a 109K4, which is what? 20 eny? And the lesser Spits can give you a hard time as well. But.....Im only approaching medium skill in LAs. Ive seen a few guys who can really, really fly them.
The LA-7s are a great ride for the guy who refuses to be a mindless, gelded robot who badmouths them just cause everyone else does. Ill bet I see less LAs in the air then spits and runstangs anyways.
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In 2007, La-7 was ranked only #18 in fighter K/D's with 1.27. (Best unperked fighters Hurri II, Typhoon, 109K, all having K/D over 1.5)
It was ranked #2 in raw fighter kills, with a share of 7.25% (1st P51D at 7.73%, 3rd N1K at 7.16%)
Lusche, I know stats don't lie, but there are other factors at play here. For example: the LA7 is a little bit of a noob plane while the 109 K4 is pretty much a vets plane. That could easily explain the difference in the K/D. That being said, I still don't favor perking the LA7. (Sorry 2fly). In a duel, I would take the Spit 16 over the LA7 anytime.
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LA-7 should be perked no doubt about it. Carwash you hit it on the head with the K/D being so low because it's the most "flown" newb ride. I "fly" the pony alot and I also think that it should be perked but the LA should definately be perked BEFORE the pony. I can't for the life of me figure out why the C-hog is perked and the Lala isn't. :rolleyes:
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Lusche, I know stats don't lie, but there are other factors at play here. For example: the LA7 is a little bit of a noob plane while the 109 K4 is pretty much a vets plane. That could easily explain the difference in the K/D.
Oh, I would never argue that the K/D is being degraded by the huge number of players flying it.
But ii still shows it's far from being unbalancing, like the F4UC was back in the days. It hat both numbers and high K/D at the same time. If the LA would give players a massive overall advantage over all other planes, we would see MUCH more than a mere 7% kills being done by it. High top speed down low, but quickly degrading over 5K. very good climb but not the best, good maneuverability but still not the best, average view, very good punch but average ballistics. And the biggest issue why it isn't used more: short legs. That's why you see it mostly in base defense or in close furballs, rarely far behind the immediate front line.
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I can't for the life of me figure out why the C-hog is perked and the Lala isn't. :rolleyes:
4 Hispanos with superior ballistics and an insane amount of ammunition, to name only the most important one. The whole concept of "perking" primaly owes it's very existence to the C-Hog
I "fly" the pony alot and I also think that it should be perked.
Why in the world would you perk the Pony???? :confused:
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Thanks guys.
I just wanted some insight into why. Not really looking to reignite an old firefight.
I still think it should have a value assigned just because it is a superior aircraft. It is certainely one of the most flown newb rides and leads to the situation of being beaten by the aircraft and not the pilot at times. I guess it may seem worse to me as I like the typhie a lot and the LA is the bane of its existance.
Anyway, thanks for the info.
:rock
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This thread should be locked and made a 'Sticky'.
:salute
:rofl :rofl Wouldnt that just be rich.When I see an LA I just wanna shoot it down.I dont know..they just scream dweeb.Ive used them to break up a base attack but nothing more.
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Just what is the logic behind the LA-7 not being perked? :confused:
Same logic used when the P51 and D9 were not perked
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LA-7 should be perked no doubt about it. Carwash you hit it on the head with the K/D being so low because it's the most "flown" newb ride.
What is it that bothers you about a ride flown by a newb? Easy killz for someone like you right? :noid
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All the complaints about the LA are comical. It is not instant death. I used to fly it but now fly the Corsair and never hesitate to fight a LA. I would rather go against it than a Hurricane.
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If you use the logic that because most "newbs" fly it then you might as well perk the spit16 also as it's one of the most common spits flown by the newbs. Seems to me the LA7/5 is performing the very task that it was designed for, short to medium range base defense with the primary focus on killing anything in the air. I'll up an L7/5 for defense if i see a con break my dar for the plain fact it gets airborne quick, climbs ok, and has speed to run out and attack or I.D. the incoming con. It is a fairly easy plane to fly and pretty forgiving of mistakes but like any plane if you can't fly it right your not going to be very effective with it.
AKsleepy
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Fly above 5k ft. :aok
I would perk the spixteen before the La-7 simply because it's often 50% of the aircraft that I see.
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The only thing that bothers me about newbs "flying" it is that there is NO punishment for playing dumb. They might think about it a bit more if it's going to cost them some (valuable) perkies. La's just "flying" around HOing everthing as fast as they can "fly" it is just sad and this seems to be a disease that is spreading throughout the community. There are alot of good gamers that "fly" the LA and thats fine...To each his own. Some of my best online friends "fly" them. I personally don't understand it. I like to challenge myself a bit and "flying" an LA to me is (as I've said before) like playing Madden '08 on X-box and putting it on easy and winning every game 217-0. What fun is that?
Makes NO sense to me....
As far as the C-hog goes....These take a bit of knowledge to "fly". If you don't know what your doing and know how to use flaps properly along with the throttle you will be toast. So, tell me...What is so hard about "flying" an LA that it shouldn't be perked. Give me reason's why it SHOULDN'T be.
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As far as the C-hog goes....These take a bit of knowledge to "fly". If you don't know what your doing and know how to use flaps properly along with the throttle you will be toast. So, tell me...What is so hard about "flying" an LA that it shouldn't be perked. Give me reason's why it SHOULDN'T be.
You actually were given the reasons why it shouldn't.
Along with reasons why C-Hog was perked.
But on the other hand you didn't even answer in any why why you would even see the Pony perked... a most strange proposal btw ;)
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The only thing that bothers me about newbs "flying" it is that there is NO punishment for playing dumb. They might think about it a bit more if it's going to cost them some (valuable) perkies. La's just "flying" around HOing everthing as fast as they can "fly" it is just sad and this seems to be a disease that is spreading throughout the community. There are alot of good gamers that "fly" the LA and thats fine...To each his own. Some of my best online friends "fly" them. I personally don't understand it. I like to challenge myself a bit and "flying" an LA to me is (as I've said before) like playing Madden '08 on X-box and putting it on easy and winning every game 217-0. What fun is that?
Makes NO sense to me....
As far as the C-hog goes....These take a bit of knowledge to "fly". If you don't know what your doing and know how to use flaps properly along with the throttle you will be toast. So, tell me...What is so hard about "flying" an LA that it shouldn't be perked. Give me reason's why it SHOULDN'T be.
Burden of proof.
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I got curious once, about the LA7 thing...and flew one into a furball....
I landed with 6 kills and no damage to me.
I no longer wonder about the LA-7.
I wasn't around for the Great F4U-1C Fest...and wonder if that Legacy would hold true today.
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I can't believe you would even ask why the pony should be perked sir. It's fast, turns quit well, handles extremely well at high alt and above average at low alt, it call haul an arsenal of bombs and rockets and can "fly" forever on a tank of fuel, the 50cals (although not deadly in small numbers) are like lazers and are easy to aim. Pony IMO is the best all-around MA plane in the game. The -4 would probably rank right up there for me if I used them more but I've just never been a F4 fan and hate the fact that you can't see well behind you.
Can you tell me why the Tempy is perked? A pony will eat it for lunch in a turn fight, speeds are pretty much the same, fuel is limited in the temp. So, other than the canons I just don't see why that has a 40 (give or take) perk and the pony or the LA :confused: doesn't have ANY?
Makes NO SENSE :aok
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Can you tell me why the Tempy is perked? A pony will eat it for lunch in a turn fight, speeds are pretty much the same, fuel is limited in the temp. So, other than the canons I just don't see why that has a 40 (give or take) perk and the pony (...) doesn't have ANY?
Makes NO SENSE :aok
:huh
Usually I would say "not a praticular good attempt at trolling", but actually I'm rather speechless now...
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I wasn't around for the Great F4U-1C Fest...and wonder if that Legacy would hold true today.
Many folks forget that there's now a bigger plane set with better rides in it than when the C-hog had its days of glory (and we've had quite a few flight model modifications/fixes). Sure it's a nice ride, but definately not any better than many now available that are unperked. Equal pilots in a Niki, Ki-84, Dora or TA152, 109K4 or G14, Spit 16 or 8, LA-7, Typhoon...all will slaughter the C-Hog more often than not.
Honesty, if the Spit XVI and LA-7 are not perked, the C-Hog shouldn't be. The light perk should be applied to the Spixteen and LA-7 if it's kept on the C-Hog.
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Equal pilots in a Niki, Ki-84, Dora or TA152, 109K4 or G14, Spit 16 or 8, LA-7, Typhoon...all will slaughter the C-Hog more often than not.
I'd recommend you fly the C-Hog more as it is only slightly worse handling then the other hogs save the 4. Co-E equal pilots I'd say the only likely winner out of that list of planes would be the Ki84 and the two spits (add the K4 if both pilots are experts). All of the rest have to bleed the E of the hog while maintaining their own before they have a chance, and they have to do that before falling pray to a snapshot. In MA terms the only planes I expect a handful from in that list are the Ki84 and the K4.
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:huh
Usually I would say "not a praticular good attempt at trolling", but actually I'm rather speechless now...
I'm thinkin I'm not the one trollin :D
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The only thing that bothers me about newbs "flying" it is that there is NO punishment for playing dumb. They might think about it a bit more if it's going to cost them some (valuable) perkies. La's just "flying" around HOing everthing as fast as they can "fly" it is just sad and this seems to be a disease that is spreading throughout the community. There are alot of good gamers that "fly" the LA and thats fine...To each his own. Some of my best online friends "fly" them. I personally don't understand it. I like to challenge myself a bit and "flying" an LA to me is (as I've said before) like playing Madden '08 on X-box and putting it on easy and winning every game 217-0. What fun is that?
Makes NO sense to me....
As far as the C-hog goes....These take a bit of knowledge to "fly". If you don't know what your doing and know how to use flaps properly along with the throttle you will be toast. So, tell me...What is so hard about "flying" an LA that it shouldn't be perked. Give me reason's why it SHOULDN'T be.
Did you ever think that if the lala got perked, you would have to deal with tiffis, 190s, and nikis hoing you? I'd rather face the three cannons
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Did you ever think that if the lala got perked, you would have to deal with tiffis, 190s, and nikis hoing you? I'd rather face the three cannons
I think a 5pt perk would at least deter the suicide dweebs, and make them think a bit about actually trying to live through a fight. The folks really wanting to fly the bird wouldn't be upset by that small amount, much like the C-Hog's. While it may make nubs think twice about upping it to auger in while vulching or porking ord/troops.
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All of the rest have to bleed the E of the hog while maintaining their own before they have a chance, and they have to do that before falling pray to a snapshot...
With the new views, I'm finding it much harder to keep tracking my enemy for the snap. Any enemy that gets me slow in a C-Hog in that list (Spixteen, LA7, K4, Ki-84, Nikki) ends up killing me fairly easily if they know what they're doing and avoid my lasers. And once the C-Hog is slow and low, it takes it forever to get speed up or climb to a decent alt...
I still submit that there are better planes, unperked in the current plane set, and that having any cost on the C-Hog is odd. Unless you apply the same small cost to similar/superior aircraft such as the Spit XVI & LA-7.
I actually feel like the -1A hog is superior in almost every aspect to the C. I'm sure many other hog drivers would agree...
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I think a 5pt perk would at least deter the suicide dweebs, and make them think a bit about actually trying to live through a fight. The folks really wanting to fly the bird wouldn't be upset by that small amount, much like the C-Hog's. While it may make nubs think twice about upping it to auger in while vulching or porking ord/troops.
It wont. It will make them jump into the next available plain. If HOing is the issue there are better planes to do that.
There is really no issue with nubes flying the lala. The people that want to see it perk are the vulchers that cant make it back home when a lala manages to get its gear up. The rest is all BS. There are better planes for HOing. Some of the people complaining about the HOing lalas are the same people that will tell you that it takes 2 to HO. Make no mistake about it, if I manage to take off from a vulched field in a lala, I am not looking for a fight 10ft off the runway
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I think a 5pt perk would at least deter the suicide dweebs, and make them think a bit about actually trying to live through a fight. The folks really wanting to fly the bird wouldn't be upset by that small amount, much like the C-Hog's. While it may make nubs think twice about upping it to auger in while vulching or porking ord/troops.
Ahh, here we have that "educating" argument again. But it will fail. If they can't Ho, auger/pork in a La, they will just take a Typhoon, which has better payload and cannons anyway. (In fact, a LA-7 going on a pork run is a rare sight, for very obvious reasons)
Somehow I often have the feeling it's just a "I don't like it, I don't fly it, let's perk it". (And I'm afraid more often than not that dislike is just a part of AH socialisation, a parrot syndrome and a quite convenient excuse for own shortcomings)
There is no reason to perk a plane that hasn't any unbalancing influence on MA at all. LA-7 ith it's msierable range shouldn't be perked (as well as the Spit XIV should get it removed ;))
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Lusche, I know stats don't lie, but there are other factors at play here. For example: the LA7 is a little bit of a noob plane while the 109 K4 is pretty much a vets plane. That could easily explain the difference in the K/D. That being said, I still don't favor perking the LA7. (Sorry 2fly). In a duel, I would take the Spit 16 over the LA7 anytime.
Noob's HO. 5% of us KNOW how this La7 turns, and WTF it is capable of. I up this La7 when a field is on the fringe of being vultched. Nothing like landing 4-5 quick kills on 25% fuel, turning easily with Spits and still having 350 rounds left.
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There is no reason to perk a plane that hasn't any unbalancing influence on MA at all. LA-7 ith it's msierable range shouldn't be perked (as well as the Spit XIV should get it removed ;))
I can see the logic behind unperking the Spit XIV. As it is, it's the cheapest perked fighter and you rarely see them. Unperked, you would still see fewer XIV's than XVI's, catch my drift? :noid
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Somehow I often have the feeling it's just a "I don't like it, I don't fly it, let's perk it". (And I'm afraid more often than not that dislike is just a part of AH socialisation, a parrot syndrome and a quite convenient excuse for own shortcomings)
Thats not my argument as I clearly stated that I "fly" a pony alot. I'm not saying give the Lala a 50 perk or anything but to have 40 on the tempy and NOTHING on the Lala?!?! Come on. It should at LEAST be perked the same as the C-hog.
Since you guys are bringing up the "well the HO dweebs will just up typhoon" thing....I think those should have a small perk as well, also the spixteen, hurri2c, n1k and I'm sure a few others that I can't think of ATM.
My point is make it worth something to live through a fight and give a little penalty (if you will) to those that use easier rides. It's just too easy to drive around like a idiot squeezing the trigger at anything red and running as fast as you can to the next red guy. I'm sure the reason HTC doesn't do this is because so many kids that SUBSCRIBE want to just log on and go all ARCADE mode and not put any thought into it at all. Hell, I'd pay alot more for just an arena that only 2 year or more "vets" could play in. It seems that most (not all) that have lasted this long are usually looking for a good clean fight and have a sort of respect for their fellow players.
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Since you guys are bringing up the "well the HO dweebs will just up typhoon" thing....I think those should have a small perk as well, also the spixteen, hurri2c, n1k and I'm sure a few others that I can't think of ATM.
With that kind of logic, you will end up having all better late war rides perked. New players, or simply those not playing often enough to build up major skill levels or a considerable amount of perks will have to resort to much less capable rides, while players like me can easily afford flying late war rides all day.
Horrible idea. Wouldn't do any good to the game. A huge part of the appeal of this game is the fact that you can hop in and have fun. Limiting people's choices for some obscure reasons is not fun.
Regarding to Vets Arena:
- The basic premise that "vets" fly, act, fight, or behave themselves better is wrong. Skill, behaviour, knowledge isn't tied to game time.
(And I'm sure many long timers will laugh at the thought 2 years would make you a "vet ;))
- Trying to seperate new from older players is a bad idea for community and the future of aces high? Want to get new players to a better standard? Train them, help then, educate them, but not with an elitist "vet" attitude.
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Would it be so horrible to have them start out in EW or MW to gain perkies to come in LW and buy rides? Really?
Like I said....Too many want ARCADE MODE though :(
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This "noobs in LAs doing the HO'ing" thingy is hilarious. I'll bet its the noobs doing the spawn camping, the vulching, the cherry-picking running, the smack talking....ect :rofl
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This "noobs in LAs doing the HO'ing" thingy is hilarious. I'll bet its the noobs doing the spawn camping, the vulching, the cherry-picking running, the smack talking....ect :rofl
Boy Lusche hit the nail on the head. The noobs havnt learned the cheap shots yet so how can they pull em?
[/quote]
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Would it be so horrible to have them start out in EW or MW to gain perkies to come in LW and buy rides? Really?
Yes.
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Hell, I'd pay alot more for just an arena that only 2 year or more "vets" could play in.
Then you'd get an arena of "vets" HOing. You kid yourself if you think only n00bs and two-week wonders HO in the La-7 or any other plane for that matter.
I know it pains a lot to read it but Lusche hit it squarely on the nail with his reasons why most cry about perking the La-7. For all the cries to perk it, no one has been able to offer any concrete evidence on how the La-7 unbalances the arena.
ack-ack
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Would it be so horrible to have them start out in EW or MW to gain perkies to come in LW and buy rides? Really?
Yes.
One of the greatest things about AHII vs. all/most other MMOs is the lack of leveling/grinding. Wether you call it gaining XP or gaining perks or farming for gold, it still amounts to grinding away for hours so you can get the next 'uber' thing, be it the fairy princess slipper, Haubrek of Awesomeness or F4U-C. With AHII I can up nearly ANY plane in the set and pit my skills against yours and 99% of the time, the better cartoon pilot will win. I dont have to spend hours in a place I don't want to be, flying a plane I don't want to fly just to have the opportunity to finially compete on an even playing field in The Elite Arena.
To go along with the brilliant idea of making new people grind away in EW/MW, lets also start tossing perk point values out on armament loadouts and bombs. Want the big cookie on your lanc? Cough up some perks. Want the large ammo loadout on your 110? Cough up some perks. Want to add the slipper tank to your spit? Cough up some perks. How about 2500 lbs worth of bombs and 10 rockets on your Jug? Cough up some perks.
Eventually, following your line of thought, everything will have a perk value and only those who are really good will have the perks to fly late war planes with bombs and drop tanks, leaving the rest of us to wallow around in our B5Ns launching torpedos at supply barges.
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I can't believe you would even ask why the pony should be perked sir. It's fast, turns quit well, handles extremely well at high alt and above average at low alt, it call haul an arsenal of bombs and rockets and can "fly" forever on a tank of fuel, the 50cals (although not deadly in small numbers) are like lazers and are easy to aim. Pony IMO is the best all-around MA plane in the game. The -4 would probably rank right up there for me if I used them more but I've just never been a F4 fan and hate the fact that you can't see well behind you.
Can you tell me why the Tempy is perked? A pony will eat it for lunch in a turn fight, speeds are pretty much the same, fuel is limited in the temp. So, other than the canons I just don't see why that has a 40 (give or take) perk and the pony or the LA :confused: doesn't have ANY?
Makes NO SENSE :aok
1. With 4 Hispanos, even a snapshot from a Tempest can end your flight.
2. Tempest is faster at low/med altitude where most fights in AH occur.
3. Tempest will outclimb the Pony.
4. Sorry, but the Tempest will out-turn the Pony.
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One of the greatest things about AHII vs. all/most other MMOs is the lack of leveling/grinding. Wether you call it gaining XP or gaining perks or farming for gold, it still amounts to grinding away for hours so you can get the next 'uber' thing, be it the fairy princess slipper, Haubrek of Awesomeness or F4U-C. With AHII I can up nearly ANY plane in the set and pit my skills against yours and 99% of the time, the better cartoon pilot will win. I dont have to spend hours in a place I don't want to be, flying a plane I don't want to fly just to have the opportunity to finially compete on an even playing field in The Elite Arena.
I think I will save this for future reference. Well said. :aok
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1. With 4 Hispanos, even a snapshot from a Tempest can end your flight.
2. Tempest is faster at low/med altitude where most fights in AH occur.
3. Tempest will outclimb the Pony.
4. Sorry, but the Tempest will out-turn the Pony.
it is the 3 fastes fighter down low with wep beaten by the 163 and 262 fastest prop plane
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it is the 3 fastes fighter down low with wep beaten by the 163 and 262 fastest prop plane
I hate to bag on ya man, but do you even stop for a second to think about what you are posting before you hit the 'post' button?
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I think I will save this for future reference. Well said. :aok
Feel free to use it as you see fit, and thank you.
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unperk spit14 ! perk the N1K !
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1. With 4 Hispanos, even a snapshot from a Tempest can end your flight.--With 6 LAZER 50's well placed your dead in a hurry
2. Tempest is faster at low/med altitude where most fights in AH occur. ---Not dramatically
3. Tempest will outclimb the Pony. Yes
4. Sorry, but the Tempest will out-turn the Pony.--- NOPE
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1. With 4 Hispanos, even a snapshot from a Tempest can end your flight.--With 6 LAZER 50's well placed your dead in a hurry
Note the restriction you are setting! "Well placed". The BIG difference is, with 4 Hispanos they don't need to be well placed at all.
2. Tempest is faster at low/med altitude where most fights in AH occur. ---Not dramatically
More than 20mph actually is dramatically. Tempest can run from Pony at will, Pony can't run from Tempest, unless in a narrow band around 12k or above 21. In both cases, the Temp can just dive away. Also keep in mind that the Tempest has considerable better acceleration and wins every drag race - at sea level 200 to 250mph Pony 14.2 Tempest 9.9 seconds.
3. Tempest will outclimb the Pony. - Yes
A very decisive advantage. Rob the Pony's E, then keep fighting nose up
4. Sorry, but the Tempest will out-turn the Pony.--- NOPE
You are completely wrong. Pony has a chance when keeping turns relatively fast, so it can drop 1 notch of flaps. No flaps as well as full flaps Tempest turns tighter.
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With that kind of logic, you will end up having all better late war rides perked. New players, or simply those not playing often enough to build up major skill levels or a considerable amount of perks will have to resort to much less capable rides, while players like me can easily afford flying late war rides all day.
Horrible idea. Wouldn't do any good to the game. A huge part of the appeal of this game is the fact that you can hop in and have fun. Limiting people's choices for some obscure reasons is not fun.
Regarding to Vets Arena:
- The basic premise that "vets" fly, act, fight, or behave themselves better is wrong. Skill, behaviour, knowledge isn't tied to game time.
(And I'm sure many long timers will laugh at the thought 2 years would make you a "vet ;))
- Trying to seperate new from older players is a bad idea for community and the future of aces high? Want to get new players to a better standard? Train them, help then, educate them, but not with an elitist "vet" attitude.
Well then why even perk the tempy, c-hog, 262, or 163?? Whats the point?
I don't mind training players that make an attempt to train themself....But, the guy that logs on and ask's "how do I start my plane?" will not get help from me because obviously they are one of these ARCADE guys that want instant action without doing any *cough* READING about it first.
Guess I'm just a guy that likes the feeling you get when you EARN something and not just have it given to you like so many spoiled brats these days. Sad, these are the same kids we had to ban dodgeball for and get rid of jump ropes because *sniff* some kids could jump twice on a skip and others couldn't so as not to hurt their feelings we have to pretend to have a jump rope in their hands.
F n Sad
Btw...you will have to show me that the tempy turns tighter sometime.....I'm not a great gamer but I have yet to see that happen in 4 years of playing.
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Well then why even perk the tempy, c-hog, 262, or 163?? Whats the point?
The point has been brought up so often in this thread... :rolleyes:
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LA7 should be perked 10-15. hands down
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The point has been brought up so often in this thread... :rolleyes:
And has yet to be answered....
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And has yet to be answered....
Again? :huh :rofl
Regarding to Tempest vs Pony turn:
(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/7215/turndatayz8.th.jpg) (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=turndatayz8.jpg)
Utility by Spatula, Data by MOSQ:
Test:
500 ft.
Fuel 25% unless noted.
Fuel Burn .0001.
Stall Limiter: OFF.
Combat Trim: OFF.
WEP: ON.
All turns Counter Clockwise.
Altitude maintained +/- 50 ft.
Speed maintained +/- 3 mph. E6B used to watch speed.
See also (among others)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,166537.msg1889964.html#msg1889964
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,212801.0.html
http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php
And that's it from me for this thread. I'm afraid it would only degrade further - I don't want to be blamed for that ;)
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Hell, I'd pay alot more for just an arena that only 2 year or more "vets" could play in. It seems that most (not all) that have lasted this long are usually looking for a good clean fight and have a sort of respect for their fellow players.
And would you also have HT boot the "vets" that HO Cause I see alot of that in the MA too.Im damn near to the point where if its a choice of giving them a deflection trying to avoid the HO Im just gonna slide down in the seat and Head on.Apply directly to the cockpit.Head on.Apply dirrectly to the cockpit.It isnt just noobs doing the HO.And I'll take a facefull of LA7 over a tempy or aa 190A8 anyday.
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Credit to the OG.
(http://home.comcast.net/~angryace/angrypics/LA7.jpg)
:confused:
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Just what is the logic behind the LA-7 not being perked? :confused:
The logic is simple. No one has convinced HT that it deserves to be perked. :)
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
Angry
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HTC perking policy may seem strange at times................
It would seem right that rare late war birds such as 262's, 234's, Tempest's should be perked. Indeed it would seem right that the Ta152 should be perked along with the 3 cannon La7 and the very late Spits that entered service in 45.
Some of the above were perked at their time of introduction to the MA game play.
It would also seem right that aircraft that cause arena game play to become heavily miss balanced should be made "rare" or at least carry some cost if flown totally without regard to game play. In fact game play balance seems to be the overriding reason for perking and or perk value modification.
When the chog was introduced I do not believe that HTC had any intention to perk it. The maps frequently in use at the time were such that there were many CV groups in play and these suddenly became irresistible platforms of dominance being home to the indomitable Chog its ability to carry 2000lbs of ordinance and 4 x hispano 20mm. Hordes latched onto them as did many dominant squads and CV launched virtually nothing else whilst fields local to any coast were (it seemed) defenceless to the massed chog onslaught.
Why was it so dominant?
Typhoons carried the (nearly) the same ordinance and whilst (then) often used as field killers they did not unbalance to the degree of the chog. My belief was that it was only in combination with its ability to launch from a CV that it became such an unbalancing factor and indeed maps with less CV dependency were less effected by its presence.
Perking it solved the problem of the time. It was the first time I saw the retrospective addition of perks to directly address a game play/balance issue. (since then we have had ENY Perk biasing added.) Whether unperking it now would reproduce the problem I do not know.
Since then we have seen the unperking of the Ta152 and the perking of the Spit XIV. Both these actions were apparently with respect to game play balance as would be the initial perking of the Tiger and the latter (retrospective) perking of the Firefly.
The La7 was slow to be recognised within game as an aircraft of some merit. It suffered from being "little known" and "Soviet" in origin. It had no glamour of history about it as may be said for a P51, Spitfire or Bf109.
Its performance curves are ideally suited to MA game play and if it had longer legs, the ability to carry significant ordinance and 3 Hispanos then I doubt we would see any other type of aircraft and game play would be on the floor in terms of entertainment value.
It does not however have these other attributes and neither does it cause game play in balance. It is not the most used aircraft. Its use does not cause a disruption of game play.
It is unpopular amongst "experten" and those who would aspire to be seen as "experten". Putting aside the aside the inane rhetoric of our "aspiree experten" lets look at what our "experten" suffer at the hands of the La7......because this is IMO pretty key to calls for its perkage................
"The Spoiler" If your SA is good it counts for nothing if a high La7 chooses you as its victim. It may or may not be the one to get the kill but it will have caused you to lose advantage such that others finish you. You are left in the certain knowledge that you have been beaten (or made vulnerable)by the lesser skilled opponent or at least by one employing far less skill than should have been required to "earn" your "pelt".
"The Chaser" If you have extracted your self from a hard fought furball only to find an La7 chasing you, you know you will have to fight again, of course this time you have little fuel and no ammo. Of course the spits behind him will probably be the ones to finish you off. You are left in the certain knowledge that you have been beaten (or made vulnerable)by the lesser skilled opponent or at least by one employing far less skill than should have been required to "earn" your "pelt".
"The Safe Option". It engages your Spit/109/P51/N1K2 Co-E, Co-alt carries out 2 -3 poorly executed air combat manoeuvres which put you in the advantage and then it simply disengages, flies away and then returns when the balance (or its advantage) is re gained. Rinse, Repeat, Rinse, Repeat etc etc. You are left in the certain knowledge that you have not been able to finish off the lesser skilled opponent or at least one employing far less skill than should have been required to escape with his "pelt" intact.
"The Noob Machine". You only have to read the above to see that any player wanting some modicum of success will be drawn to the La7. He will of course display all the characteristics of a new player. Shall we say the characteristics of a less mature player. Head ons, horde play, cherry picking, kill stealing, daisy chaining, vulching, etc etc. Its interesting to note that the consensus of some is that it is the aircraft that does this and not the player. I wonder what the outcome would be if such logic were applied to e.g. Gun law in the US. The truth is of course is that we see such individual game play characteristics from all aircraft flown by such pilots.
I have never seen an "experten" complain about an La7 that was flown well.
I have one other perverse theory regarding HTC's view of the La7. It is the ideal "badboy". To put it another way supposing we were talking about the P51? Supposing all the above attributes were to be combined with the very icon of US (HTC's core geographical market) WWII air supremacy? would then this aircraft only represent 7.5 to 10% of arena game play? In fact the P51 now has a greater slice of the arena game play than the La7 but supposing that it took 20 or even 30% of game play? It would have to be perked...and would a game where free access was denied to such an icon be as popular with new players as AH is now? Who knows....... but indeed it does suit to have this Soviet short legged low alt uber plane as the focus of disdain...............it very much fits in with a "view of the world".
I would lay bets that when ordinance perking is introduced the 3 x b20 La7 will receive its perk. As a late war variant of comparatively few in number this would seem appropriate. However if this were to cause mass migration to such aircraft as the N1K2 the resultant backlash here may be interesting.
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Good post Tilt.
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HTC perking policy may seem strange at times................
It would seem right that rare late war birds such as 262's, 234's, Tempest's should be perked. Indeed it would seem right that the Ta152 should be perked along with the 3 cannon La7 and the very late Spits that entered service in 45.
Bearing in mind there isn't a Spit in the game that entered service (or has the max boost that was available) in 1945.
ONLY Spit that entered service in 1945 was the F.21.
Max boost for the LF IX (May 1944 @25lbs), XVI (Dec 1944 @25lbs) and XIV (July 1944 @21lbs), none of which are available in game.
So if you're saying all current Spits should be free, I agree.
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Given that germany was attrited to bits, it'd be nice if those late spits were added in tandem with souped up doras (like JV44's) and high boost and high grade fueled 109s.
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This thread should be perked for forum domination.
If you dont beleive me they make a wonderful little tool called "Search". Works great for finding threads/info such as this one that have been gone over thousands of times in the past 10 some odd years.
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"The Noob Machine". You only have to read the above to see that any player wanting some modicum of success will be drawn to the La7. He will of course display all the characteristics of a new player. Shall we say the characteristics of a less mature player. Head ons, horde play, cherry picking, kill stealing, daisy chaining, vulching, etc etc. Its interesting to note that the consensus of some is that it is the aircraft that does this and not the player. I wonder what the outcome would be if such logic were applied to e.g. Gun law in the US. The truth is of course is that we see such individual game play characteristics from all aircraft flown by such pilots.
I have never seen an "experten" complain about an La7 that was flown well.
Thing is Ive seen as much, or more, examples of this kinda gameplay done by experienced players. When Im in turn fights in LAs, with airplanes that turn about the same, usually by the 2nd or 3rd pass they are HO'ing me. And some of these guys have been in the game a long time. Vulching is the air equivalent of spawn camping. Take a good look next time whos sitting over a capped field for 30 mins, and then lands 8 kills. :lol
I hear experienced players whine about the LA-7 all the time. And if your in a furball its only a matter of time before some plane causes you to lose an advantage. I agree about the chaser bit, even if there are some unperked airplanes as fast as the LA-7. But your probably only going to see this at a base you are attacking due to the LAs short legs.
I agree that its taken on the position of cultural bad boy. Just like blaming the noobs has always been preferential then blaming the ones actually doing the game gaming, scoe H'oeing, and cheap shoting.
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I think a 5pt perk would at least deter the suicide dweebs, and make them think a bit about actually trying to live through a fight. The folks really wanting to fly the bird wouldn't be upset by that small amount, much like the C-Hog's. While it may make nubs think twice about upping it to auger in while vulching or porking ord/troops.
HEY i am a SUICIDE DWEEB and you will never see me vulch, or pork, hehe
okay back to topic i say perk the LA7, SPIT 16, and i will still fly them, the way i look at it, i always get ganged, (thats what happens when i fly to the biggest red dar,) and those two planes give me the best chance for a return to base, or at least get 4 or 5 of the horde trying to kill me.
when are some of you gonna get it into your heads, the plane doesnt realy matter, someone who does'nt know how to use his plane is an easy kill (for the most part) i have killed la7's in a p40, and so many other combatations im not gonna recount them here.
i also remember not to long ago i had a p38 out turn my spit. he tottaly took me by surprized, not that he jumped me from behind, i saw him way off but, he made that 38 fly like a hurri, it was beautifull, i know i wassnt trying all that hard at first, (im thinking crappy 38) ya right.
its the stick, not the plane. its been said and proved over and over again.
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When you say it's "the stick not the plane" I have some trouble with that....Yes, it is up to the gamer to know what to do in certain situations and you should know your strengths and weakness's in anything you drive, but I don't care how good of a "stick" you are a p40 will never RUN down a LA-7. If some guy fights me with a p40 he would have to keep his guns on me for a bit to kill me because of the lethality of the bullets...however if that same guy use's a LA with it's canons then he wouldn't have to keep it on me that long now would he? So to suggest the plane has NOTHING to do with it is just wrong.
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The reason the LA has such a mediocre K/D ratio, or at least one of them, is that many people upp them only in desperate situations. Like when the enemy has a vulchvest going on or when your just plain outnumbered. Im also told that many newer sticks fly them but its hard to tell. Nobody with any time in the game admits to flying LAs and Im just not the type to check anyones stats.
I would rate the Hispanos as far better then the Russian cannon. And the Tempest is a far better gun platform. I begin to worry if a Tempest or C-Hog is 600 behind me but dont start worrying about the LA till 400, or even 200. If the Tempest wasnt perked then a lot more people would fly it a lot more recklessly. Most people really dont care if they get shot down in a LA. Ill also bet if most guys had to choose between gunning a Tempest, and gunning an LA, they would go after the LA. There's something about the LA-7 that just brings the meanness out in guys. I have seen an entire furball drop what they are doing and chase me in an LA. Ive never seen a Tempest mix it up with the rest of the pack anyways. Everyone Ive seen flys them like "run-90s" or "runstangs". They barrel in from 15k, HO you, and then run. But its always the LaLas that get the bad rep. :rofl
One big reason the LA isn't perked, and it should continue to not be, is that it has very short legs and doesnt have a external fuel option. That means you have to fly it to shorter ranges and for shorter times. That and it doesnt carry meaningful ords, which means its not much of a GV killer. Actually one of the toughest opponent's for an LA is a 109K4, which is what? 20 eny? And the lesser Spits can give you a hard time as well. But.....Im only approaching medium skill in LAs. Ive seen a few guys who can really, really fly them.
The LA-7s are a great ride for the guy who refuses to be a mindless, gelded robot who badmouths them just cause everyone else does. Ill bet I see less LAs in the air then spits and runstangs anyways.
i find a lot of pilots actually fight when they're in these too.....i mean REALLY fight, not HO n run. i've had some good fights against them. i do agree about the hizooks, as i think they're the best in the game.....the only other cannon bird i fly with multiple cannons is the zeke. while these don't seem too deadly aout past 400 yards, somehow, i generally am within 200-300 when i fire in these, and even the japanese cannons rip wings right off in 1-2 second bursts. one thing i noticed the other night(only my 3rd time on this month) was in a A6M5B v P39, i got a quick snapshot at about 350 yds, and saw a nice spread of hitsjust behind the cockpit.....and the cobra lit up like a zeke. it didn't look like it burned as long as a zeke does either.
as far as the hatred for the lalas? i wonder if that may be something left over from AW3, as a lot seemed to hate them in there. i don't personally care if it's perked or not. the guys that fly em fight in em, so they, and their opponents both have fun. that's all that matters. what's not fun? supersonic tempests(unless we get to see them lawndart) :rofl the p-38/p-51 bnz combo. actually anything bnz'ing. but that's where some get their fun too, so i just try to avoid them.
someoe mentioned that all the bogies in a furball would go after the single lala......i feel that way when i'm in my spixteen.....that's why i use the 5 or 9 for thaT.....
<<S>>
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HTC perking policy may seem strange at times................
I would lay bets that when ordinance perking is introduced the 3 x b20 La7 will receive its perk. As a late war variant of comparatively few in number this would seem appropriate. However if this were to cause mass migration to such aircraft as the N1K2 the resultant backlash here may be interesting.
That would be a mistake. The La-7 carries no ordinance worth mentioning, and has no external fuel tanks to give it reasonable distance. And the ballistics of those three cannons is not nearly as good as the 4 Hispanos on the Chog or the Tempests. Except for the third cannon, it has nothing going for it except speed. Overall, the La-7 is merely a niche fighter, not an all-round killer/attacker such as the late American rides. If the La-7 gets perked, then ponies and jugs and corsairs -- all planes with MUCH better performance characteristics and destructive power should be perked at least as much.
On the other hand, if the La-7 had better fuel consumption and/or external fuel tanks, then those who chose THOSE options should pay perk points for them. But perking the La 7, as it is now available, is unreasonable.
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... I don't care how good of a "stick" you are a p40 will never RUN down a LA-7.
A "good stick" knows better than to try running down a LA7, he'll just gain some E and wait for the inevitable return.
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Please read the whole post before you respond :aok
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When you say it's "the stick not the plane" I have some trouble with that....Yes, it is up to the gamer to know what to do in certain situations and you should know your strengths and weakness's in anything you drive, but I don't care how good of a "stick" you are a p40 will never RUN down a LA-7. If some guy fights me with a p40 he would have to keep his guns on me for a bit to kill me because of the lethality of the bullets...however if that same guy use's a LA with it's canons then he wouldn't have to keep it on me that long now would he? So to suggest the plane has NOTHING to do with it is just wrong.
no where in my post did i say the plane has NOTHING to do with it, as a matter of fact
"...those two planes give me the best chance for a return to base..."
here i seem to acknowledge the fact that some planes give me a better chance. and yes a p40 could in the right circumstance chase down a LA ie la low and slow(stick being AFK)lol, p40 carring lots of speed from on high, obviously the plane has something to do with it BUT, and thats a huge BUT, the stick is what matters.
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Enough already! :lol
Tilt, you hit the nail on the head. :aok
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its the stick, not the plane. its been said and proved over and over again.
Just seems a bit conflicting......
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Just seems a bit conflicting......
It's a generalization is all. In the majority of 1v1 scenarios each plane has it's own strengths and weaknesses and a good pilot will fly to his strengths and against his targets weaknesses. The outcome of which is dependant on both the differential of skill between the two pilots and the differential of capabilities between the strengths of one plane and the weaknesses of the other.
The plane comes into play when either the skill differential between the two pilots is too small to overcome the inherent advantages of the aircraft being flow or when the inherent advantages of the aircraft prove too large. Obviously this is a simplification but that's basically what it all boils down to.
I would agree that most of the time the difference in pilot skill is greater then the difference in the inherent advantages of the planes. Mainly because there seems to be a fairly low proportion of fights where one aircraft is superior in all facets to it's target. (P40B vs LA7 etc) Most of the time a smart pilot has strengths to make use of in order to tilt the fight in their favor.
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It's a generalization is all. In the majority of 1v1 scenarios each plane has it's own strengths and weaknesses and a good pilot will fly to his strengths and against his targets weaknesses. The outcome of which is dependant on both the differential of skill between the two pilots and the differential of capabilities between the strengths of one plane and the weaknesses of the other.
The plane comes into play when either the skill differential between the two pilots is too small to overcome the inherent advantages of the aircraft being flow or when the inherent advantages of the aircraft prove too large. Obviously this is a simplification but that's basically what it all boils down to.
I would agree that most of the time the difference in pilot skill is greater then the difference in the inherent advantages of the planes. Mainly because there seems to be a fairly low proportion of fights where one aircraft is superior in all facets to it's target. (P40B vs LA7 etc) Most of the time a smart pilot has strengths to make use of in order to tilt the fight in their favor.
now that is a great way of putting it, and explains it in a way even us dumb ones can understand.
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LA-7s are not perked for the same reasons Trees are not perked. Trees have a much higher k/d too.
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What ... another "perk" the La-7 thread ... too funny ... :lol
Looks like some just can't wrap their heads around ... "The La-7 usage DOES NOT cause an imbalance in any arena".
I can't remember the last time I ran into an La-7/5 ... 1 v 1 ... that I didn't kill in my trusty FM2 or F6F. I have been "picked" by La-5/7s (as with many other planes) but that does not speak to their "uberness" ... my SA sucked and I paid the price.
Most who piss 'n moan about the La-7 are those types that Dedalos spoke of ... In most cases it's someone in a P-50run, run-09, or a run-90 that has a basket full of vulch kills and I manage to get wheels up in an La-7 and run them down ... and when the end is near ... rather that turn and fight, they stick stir like a "land trout" and die very unceremoniously ... as expected for most who fly the late war hot-rods.
99 out of 100 double digits kill sorties in an La-7, the pilot has "picked" a furball, vulched a field, or both and the kills are most likely attributed to people's lack of SA rather than a knock down dragged out dogfight.
I can count on 4 fingers people that I have known over the past 6+ years who could truely land double digit kill sorties in an La-7 from "just" dogfighting and the most deadly of them all does not fly anymore.
You don't like getting killed by the La-7 ... then lose your peer pressure humility and fly the La-7 in dogfight mode and learn how it fights so you can then know how to counter it when flying in a different plane. I flew it straight for 9 tours ... I laugh at most La-7 pilots and know that an easy kill is on the plate.
Screaming for it to be perked because it's fast and can run you down ... sad, very sad. No La-7 has EVER run me down ... because I turn back into them and fight them and if they decide to stick around ... they will most likely die.
Also, take an La-7 up and look for some of the better sticks (Leviathn, Dedalos, Stang, Furball, Morpheous, AKAK, Greebo, Wadke, SkyRock, Fester, BluKitty, Nomde, Delirium ...) in "their ride" and then come back here, with film, showing us all how you waxed them repeatedly and easily in an La-7.
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LA-7s are not perked for the same reasons Trees are not perked. Trees have a much higher k/d too.
And trees always go for the HO. Ever been killed by a tree that has saddled up on your six? Don't think so...
ack-ack
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Looks like some just can't wrap their heads around ... "The La-7 usage DOES NOT cause an imbalance in any arena".
Just to play devils advocate... if imbalance caused is the metric used then should not the Tempest and SpitXIV be free as well? I can't think of how one would make a strong argument that those two planes pose a greater potential balance threat than the LA7.
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Just to play devils advocate... if imbalance caused is the metric used then should not the Tempest and SpitXIV be free as well? I can't think of how one would make a strong argument that those two planes pose a greater potential balance threat than the LA7.
Not so much the Spit XIV nowadays, but unleash the Temp and you will more than likely see an imbalance in the LW arenas ... but as far as I am concerned ... take the perks off the Tempest and Spit XIV ... I could care less ... just another target in the sky.
Actually, unleash all the perked planes ... except the 262 and 163 ... and lets see where the chips fall ... can they dominate and cause the "imbalance" that is feared ... would be an interesting experiment.
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This thread is actually a very good example of the notion of "Vet Tendencies" I've been talking about lately. Simply put, "vets" (despite the fact that they are all fine people on a personal level), are basically egomaniacs full of themselves. They just quite don't get the concept that these sorts of threads aren't about themselves.
"Hey.. the <latewar plane> isn't a problem at all.. because I can slap it around in my <junk plane>.."
Whoop-dee-too, the Stakhanovists of Aces High.
"Hey.. I can haul 100 tons of coal by myself at a given period.. so everybody should do the same.."
It's highschool all over again.
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but unleash the Temp and you will more than likely see an imbalance in the LW arenas
You suggest that unperking the temp will cause an imbalance but the LA7 which is one of the top 3 used aircraft doesn't already? I'm interested in how you're arriving at that conclusion. There is very little that the Tempest does better then the LA7 from a balance perspective, which is go fast down low and shoot hard and straight. The 3 LA7 cannons aren't what I would consider a large disadvantage relative to the quad hispanos. The LA7 out climbs, out accels, out turns the Tempest and has a longer wep time so even at the Tempest's best alt it will outrun the Tempest given enough time. Essentially in a 1 up fight the Tempest had better take the head-on pass.
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You suggest that unperking the temp will cause an imbalance but the LA7 which is one of the top 3 used aircraft doesn't already? I'm interested in how you're arriving at that conclusion. There is very little that the Tempest does better then the LA7 from a balance perspective, which is go fast down low and shoot hard and straight. The 3 LA7 cannons aren't what I would consider a large disadvantage relative to the quad hispanos. The LA7 out climbs, out accels, out turns the Tempest and has a longer wep time so even at the Tempest's best alt it will outrun the Tempest given enough time. Essentially in a 1 up fight the Tempest had better take the head-on pass.
:lol ... It was my 'opinion' ... simple as that ... I also said to go and un-perk it and the rest of them too (except 262 and 163) ... I could care less. What I don't want is planes perked simply because people get their arse handed to to them by said plane or simply because ... "it's real fast !!!"
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This thread is actually a very good example of the notion of "Vet Tendencies" I've been talking about lately. Simply put, "vets" (despite the fact that they are all fine people on a personal level), are basically egomaniacs full of themselves. They just quite don't get the concept that these sorts of threads aren't about themselves.
"Hey.. the <latewar plane> isn't a problem at all.. because I can slap it around in my <junk plane>.."
Whoop-dee-too, the Stakhanovists of Aces High.
"Hey.. I can haul 100 tons of coal by myself at a given period.. so everybody should do the same.."
It's highschool all over again.
:rofl ... same 'ole ... same 'ole
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This thread is actually a very good example of the notion of "Vet Tendencies" I've been talking about lately. Simply put, "vets" (despite the fact that they are all fine people on a personal level), are basically egomaniacs full of themselves. They just quite don't get the concept that these sorts of threads aren't about themselves.
"Hey.. the <latewar plane> isn't a problem at all.. because I can slap it around in my <junk plane>.."
Whoop-dee-too, the Stakhanovists of Aces High.
"Hey.. I can haul 100 tons of coal by myself at a given period.. so everybody should do the same.."
It's highschool all over again.
Hmmm...to me it's more of a case where those crying about perking the La-7 have yet to produce any evidence whatsoever that the La-7 unbalances the game play. If you have any evidence to support those crying for a perk by all means provide the proof.
ack-ack
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This thread is actually a very good example of the notion of "Vet Tendencies" I've been talking about lately. Simply put, "vets" (despite the fact that they are all fine people on a personal level), are basically egomaniacs full of themselves. They just quite don't get the concept that these sorts of threads aren't about themselves.
"Hey.. the <latewar plane> isn't a problem at all.. because I can slap it around in my <junk plane>.."
Whoop-dee-too, the Stakhanovists of Aces High.
"Hey.. I can haul 100 tons of coal by myself at a given period.. so everybody should do the same.."
It's highschool all over again.
you are being to hard on your self bud
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And trees always go for the HO. Ever been killed by a tree that has saddled up on your six? Don't think so...
ack-ack
Well, I had it happen. It was more of a kill steal though since I was floating down with no tail. Most trees are kill stealing HO dweebs if you ask me.
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Hmmm...to me it's more of a case where those crying about perking the La-7 have yet to produce any evidence whatsoever that the La-7 unbalances the game play. If you have any evidence to support those crying for a perk by all means provide the proof.
ack-ack
Kweassa wasn't making the point that the La-7 imbalances the game. He was making the point that a fair number of people think that because they can consistantly kill awful pilots in the La-7 that it somehow makes the La-7 a bad plane.
I am still looking forward to getting together with you so you can show me how to kill an La-7 in a P-38. I say without any ego whatsoever that I think I could take anyone in the game a majority of the time if I were in an La-7 and they were in anything other than possibly a Spit 16. And I'm not even any good any more.
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Well, I had it happen. It was more of a kill steal though since I was floating down with no tail. Most trees are kill stealing HO dweebs if you ask me.
Trees won't back it up by going to the DA either, timid pinaceae.
ack-ack
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The 3 LA7 cannons aren't what I would consider a large disadvantage relative to the quad hispanos.
Just about 40% less lethal.
The LA7 out climbs
Only at narrow alt range, Tempest still has considerable better zoom.
out accels
It doesn't.
out turns
Turn radius is better, not by much though, in turn rate, they're pretty even IIRC
the Tempest and has a longer wep time so even at the Tempest's best alt it will outrun the Tempest given enough time.
At Tempest's best alt, it will outrun LA7 even without WEP.
Essentially in a 1 up fight the Tempest had better take the head-on pass.
One of the reason why Tempest should remain perked (only few perkies tho). Every single noob would take Tempest and do nothing but HO. Very easy with 4 Hispanos.
Beside that, Tempest has twice the range (DTs) and can carry 2x1000lbs eggs.
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Just about 40% less lethal.
I'm not sure I agree with the combat effectiveness being 40% less lethal, maybe if you unload all the cannons into a hanger to decide on how much damage they do sure. But the advantage of no convergence issues in the LA7 make up for most of the 4th cannon & ballistics advantages. In either plane if you get a hit in convergence pieces are most of the time coming off. In terms of being able to rack up scalps per sortie I'd give it to the Tempest due to the ammo load, but simple one pass kill ability is pretty close to a wash between the two IMO.
It doesn't.
My bad on that one, memory failed me there.
Turn radius is better, not by much though, in turn rate, they're pretty even IIRC
Turn radius with flaps favors the LA7 by a good bit, turn rate you're right.
At Tempest's best alt, it will outrun LA7 even without WEP.
Doh, my bad again. Should have checked before adding the 'at best alt' part.
One of the reason why Tempest should remain perked (only few perkies tho). Every single noob would take Tempest and do nothing but HO. Very easy with 4 Hispanos.
Beside that, Tempest has twice the range (DTs) and can carry 2x1000lbs eggs.
I can't disagree with the expectation that it would happen, because it does happen with all the other cannon birds already. My point was merely that the Tempest on paper doesn't appear to be significantly more unbalancing then the LA7 suggesting that the perk assignments as a whole appear to be a bit inconsistent if you're assuming perk assignments are based on the ability for one plane to kill another. (I'm not suggesting thats what they are based on or should be based on.) Looking more carefully from your comments they're less close then I envisioned but still close enough to appear inconsistent.
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If you are directing your post at me Slap well.....you couldn't be more wrong. And Kwaesa-I personally could give a rat's watermelon about what people in a internet game think of me as a virtual pilit. I'm looking to have fun and when I am playing a GAME one thing that irks me is ARCADE mode players that don't want to have to use their brain at all to play. What I would like to see is....(hang on for this, it might shock you) a REASON to stay alive.
It's just waaaay too easy to UP and DIE-rinse and repeat. One of the FEW ways to eliminate this is by using the perk system more effectively. I have stated it MANY times that not just the LA should be perked but many other should have perk assigned to them as well. Nothing extreme like the tempy or anything but SOMETHING to at least make you think about doing stupid stuff. The only reason we have now is to get your NAME IN LIGHTS showing that you "landed" some "kills" so you can get some internet pat's on the back and proving to the community that once more you are a sooper pilit. :rofl :huh :rofl
Hell, I have a ton of perkies but I'll admit even when I am using a C-hog or a Tempy I put a little more thought into what I'm doing.
I wish they would try it because I am almost certain it would improve gameplay dramatically.
Just looking to make the game a little better is all so.....bash away :aok
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Kweassa wasn't making the point that the La-7 imbalances the game. He was making the point that a fair number of people think that because they can consistantly kill awful pilots in the La-7 that it somehow makes the La-7 a bad plane.
Only done to tell the other side of the story ... it's not the monster that most make it be due to the fact that most who do fly it ... don't really know how to "fight" it ... so all the fretting over it's "such a monster" is total crap. Yes, it's a good plane but it's not all that it's made out to be IMHO.
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If you are directing your post at me Slap well.....you couldn't be more wrong.
Nope ... wasn't directing my original post to anyone in particular ... just the overall "theme".
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The only reason we have now is to get your NAME IN LIGHTS showing that you "landed" some "kills" so you can get some internet pat's on the back and proving to the community that once more you are a sooper pilit.
I have always thought that a perk earning threshold of 2 perks should be reached before you get a system congrats message. Hence to get a congrats you have to land two kills minimum and two perks minimum. In this way the system bar is de clogged and folk motivated this way will either take the better earning ride or stay out longer.
Regarding the effect of an unperked Tempest I rather think those comparing dog fighting capabilities of various ac have missed half the point. Combining 2000lbs or ordinance with 4 x hispanos and the speed/ manouverability (and range) of a Tempest will make a horde tool extra-ordinaire. They would come over an airfield near you flatten it, vulch it and then run away when even vaguely threatened unless they wish to suicide you with a headon.
Imagine all the lethailty of a chog combined with the speed of a la7 let loose en masse.