Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: bongaroo on March 24, 2008, 02:05:33 PM
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From the paramilitary raid gone bad thread:
But it gets better. All this was over an aleged marijuana plant, true marijuana is the cause of much evil that plagues modern man. And that's why we are at war with these leafy evil doers. But it turns out that the plant, while we can't be completely sure where it's sympathies lie, was a noncombatant.
Suave, care to explain to us how marijuana is the cause of much evil that plagues us? I'd really like to hear your reasoning, I'm sure it'll provide a few good laughs. :lol
::edit:: anyone should feel free to voice their opinions too!
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I'd legalize it in a heartbeat, right along with online gambling.
Of course, with the War on Drugs providing employment to as many people as it does, this will be an uphill battle.
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Lotsa-pot + gamble online = bankrupt yes :devil
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The problem is Socialism. That is people believing they have a right to tell other people what to do with their lives, and their money.
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Depends if you view it as a gateway drug, a weekend high, or musical inspiration. The first is probably the only way it's a plague of modern man. Don't forget that driving high is just as dangerous as drunk driving though, and so like alcohol, responsibility is key.
For the record, I do not condone the use of any illegal drugs.
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Depends if you view it as a gateway drug, a weekend high, or musical inspiration. The first is probably the only way it's a plague of modern man. Don't forget that driving high is just as dangerous as drunk driving though, and so like alcohol, responsibility is key.
For the record, I do not condone the use of any illegal drugs.
And alcohol is just as bad as a 'gateway drug' as weed--statistically, even moreso, as alcohol leads to weed with far more regularity as weed leads to cocaine, heroin or anything else. As for driving high verses driving drunk, while I too condone neither, I'd like to see some statistics and studies sighted as to which is more dangerous.
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I was going to say that, Bob, but didn't want to press my luck too much.
These are supposed to be government websites so take it as you wish. Can't find anything really comparing which is worse, rather they say it's about the same due to the effects of marijuana being similar to those of alcohol. Fact: Marijuana smoking affects the brain and leads to impaired short-term memory, perception, judgment, and motor skills.
http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/MarijParentsN.html
New research shows that approximately one in six high school seniors report driving under the influence of marijuana, about the same number as alcohol. In 2001, an estimated 38,000 high school seniors in the U.S. crashed after driving under the influence of marijuana.
http://www.mediacampaign.org/steerclear/parent_tips.html
Those are both from a Dept. of Health and Human Services website http://family.samhsa.gov/teach/driving.aspx
Grain of salt...
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Legalize it, then tax the crap out of it. Make it just like alcohol/cigarettes. This will ensure all those war on drugs people will still have a job. Now they will be the P.T.E.A ( Pot Tax Enforcement Agency). You think they were tough on drugs, see how you like it when they think you're not paying taxes.
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When I saw "root of all problems" and the author, I just knew the thread had to involve marijuana even before I clicked on it.
Just as predictable was laser's blaming all the worlds’ ills on socialism.
No surprises in the O'Club today.
<Sigh>
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Like Taxes aren't a problem...
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the only evil that i know of is that it makes people wear really ugly and tacky hippy clothes, grow smelly and have terrible taste in wall art.
lucky for me i am immune. so i can speak of it without having to beat on a bongo.
legalize it. it's relatively harmless and the chippies would still be a lazy bunch of tagaheads anyways.
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Don't forget that driving high is just as dangerous as drunk driving though
Yep...it ranks right up there.....or somewhere near the tens of thousands every day on the road that pop
valium, xanax, umpteen variations of nerve meds, pain pills, mood enhancers, prescribed by the guy in the white coat.
For the record, I do not condone the use of any illegal drugs.
I am Barack Obama and I approve this message. :rolleyes:
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And alcohol is just as bad as a 'gateway drug' as weed--statistically, even moreso, as alcohol leads to weed with far more regularity as weed leads to cocaine, heroin or anything else. As for driving high verses driving drunk, while I too condone neither, I'd like to see some statistics and studies sighted as to which is more dangerous.
I can't give you statistics or show where any studies have been done.
But my wife works in a lab that test urine/blood for alcohol and drugs that have been submitted by law enforcement agencies. Usually it's from DUI's but some times from vehicle accidents. When I asked her she said both are just as dangerous as the other, just that she see's more alcohol cases just because it's more popular.
Lambo
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I can't give you statistics or show where any studies have been done.
But my wife works in a lab that test urine/blood for alcohol and drugs that have been submitted by law enforcement agencies. Usually it's from DUI's but some times from vehicle accidents. When I asked her she said both are just as dangerous as the other, just that she see's more alcohol cases just because it's more popular.
Lambo
You can't tell by a urine sample if someone is high on pot or not simply because a urine test can detect the use of marijuana for something like 30 days. Alcohol gets flushed out of the system far more quickly.
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Saliva tests are far more accurate for determining whether a person is "high" or not.
Did you ever notice people are anti-tax unless it's a tax on something they don't use?
Rep. Barney Frank announced on Real Time that he plans to introduce a bill to legalize marijuana at the federal level in the next session of Congress. That would make it a states rights issue, as it should be.
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You can't tell by a urine sample if someone is high on pot or not simply because a urine test can detect the use of marijuana for something like 30 days. Alcohol gets flushed out of the system far more quickly.
It can be detected for up to 30 days depending on a number of factors. They test to see how many milligrams are in the blood or urine and have a cut off score (200mg I believe is thiers) to report it as a positive or negative. But as far as the "high feeling" I have no idea, I can ask her again when she gets home tonight.
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Saliva tests are far more accurate for determining whether a person is "high" or not.
Exactly, and that's because the window of detection is so small compared to other types of drug tests.
It can be detected for up to 30 days depending on a number of factors. They test to see how many milligrams are in the blood or urine and have a cut off score (200mg I believe is thiers) to report it as a positive or negative.
Urine tests can only show a history of use. Urine tests are also quite easy to beat.
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If you cannot keep drugs out of prison, how do you propose to keep it off the streets?
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Urine tests can only show a history of use. Urine tests are also quite easy to beat.
Yea, working in the construction field I've seen guys do it many times. The last time I was called for random there were about 5 of us. One guy with us was known for his smoking weed said to the driver taking us to the office " Hey dude, I need to run to my car and get my coat real quick", it was like 80 degrees out.
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If you cannot keep drugs out of prison, how do you propose to keep it off the streets?
Hmm....I suppose if you put EVERYONE in prison that uses drugs.....ALL drugs would be off the street. (and in prison??)
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There will always be a criminal eliment attracted to an illegal activity in order to make money. When alchohol was illegal, bootleggers came out of the woods. Pot is illegal now, so that's where it goes. If pot were legalized, they'd move on to the next "gateway drug".
I believe some level of graff is necessary in society to keep some elements of society occupied. Unfortunately, there's a difficult balance that needs to be maintained. Tampering with the balance in the early 1900's got us prohibition and caused unpredected events that greatly outweighed the consequences of leaving it legal. I think that tampering with that balance in the 2000's (in regards to legalizing pot) could have similar effects of an unforseen nature.
People tend to oversimplify this issue and the implications when these type of discussions occur.
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Man, I was waaaay off. I thought the root of all man's modern problems was.....
women! <g,d,rlh>
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But it gets better. All this was over an aleged marijuana plant, true marijuana is the cause of much evil that plagues modern man
"True marijuana is the cause of"... what about this alleged marijuana? That's what this thread is about.
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The problem is Socialism. That is people believing they have a right to tell other people what to do with their lives, and their money.
No, it is instead a matter of morality.
These are immoral activities that violate God's laws. Anyone who engages in them, thus risks damnation for all of eternity.
Just look at what happened to the corrupt society of the Roman Empire. Do you want that to happen to the USA too??
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I think Rome's problems were because they had egomaniacal fools for leaders. We're already there.
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Anyone who engages in them, thus risks damnation for all of eternity.
Isn't a fine or incarceration then illegal under the double jeapordy clause?
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I like peanutbutter jelly sammiches!
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Lotsa-pot + gamble online = bankrupt yes :devil
Personal experience? :)
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Silly notion to think that pot's the root of any evil problem we (or anyone else) have.
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No, it is instead a matter of morality.
These are immoral activities that violate God's laws. Anyone who engages in them, thus risks damnation for all of eternity.
Just look at what happened to the corrupt society of the Roman Empire. Do you want that to happen to the USA too??
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Just clarifying--god doesn't want us to burn plants and inhale the smoke?
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Just clarifying--god doesn't want us to burn plants and inhale the smoke?
That`s right. Klinton said he never inhaled. Next question. :)
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That`s right. Klinton said he never inhaled. Next question. :)
Thanks for the levity Jackal. More often than not, your responses tend to have a calming effect on my blood pressure.
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Saliva tests are far more accurate for determining whether a person is "high" or not.
I passed a saliva test before. 6 hours after smoking several bowls.
Passed with flying colors, while still pretty high.
That test doesn't work very well.
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The problem is Socialism. That is people believing they have a right to tell other people what to do with their lives, and their money.
Your absolutely right. The government should not tell you what to do with your life or money as long as you follow a few basic rules. Along with the government butting out they should not provide food or a roof over the head of folks who lose all their funds or damage their livelyhood. Let nature take its course.
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I passed a saliva test before. 6 hours after smoking several bowls.
Passed with flying colors, while still pretty high.
That test doesn't work very well.
The window of detection varies widely with the various saliva tests. The very best one has a window of 24 hours, I think the worst one has a window of only 3 or 4 hours.
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I think Rome's problems were because they had egomaniacal fools for leaders. We're already there.
I want to laugh at this one, really I do......I just can't though. :cry
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The window of detection varies widely with the various saliva tests. The very best one has a window of 24 hours, I think the worst one has a window of only 3 or 4 hours.
Never turn up at work on your day off. :O The brand's literature said 24 hour detection. Quite a few people got fired. Metabolism helps on those tests I think.
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No, it is instead a matter of morality.
These are immoral activities that violate God's laws. Anyone who engages in them, thus risks damnation for all of eternity.
Just look at what happened to the corrupt society of the Roman Empire. Do you want that to happen to the USA too??
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This being the only person against smoking so far we'll try to get a discussion out of this.
I did believe in God, but for the past few years my faith has been changed in perspective and I'm not quite sure what I believe anymore. So let's go a step further. Let's say I don't believe in any God. What does it matter if I violate his laws?
Also, could you point out in the Bible where it says I will burn in hell for smoking weed? Did you know that marijuana was most likely used in many Jewish and early Christian rituals? I think it was used as an ingredient in an annointing oil or some such; I'll have to go dig up the link but I saw this in an article not too long ago.
Are you sure the Roman empire didn't fall apart because they were all going crazy with lead poisioning from their lead water/wine pots?
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When I saw "root of all problems" and the author, I just knew the thread had to involve marijuana even before I clicked on it.
Just as predictable was laser's blaming all the worlds’ ills on socialism.
No surprises in the O'Club today.
<Sigh>
So did you read what I asked? Would you care to contribute to our discourse? Or just be a griefer?
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I was going to say that, Bob, but didn't want to press my luck too much.
These are supposed to be government websites so take it as you wish. Can't find anything really comparing which is worse, rather they say it's about the same due to the effects of marijuana being similar to those of alcohol. http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/MarijParentsN.html
http://www.mediacampaign.org/steerclear/parent_tips.html
Those are both from a Dept. of Health and Human Services website http://family.samhsa.gov/teach/driving.aspx
Grain of salt...
Last serial post, I promise! I just didn't get a chance to respond till we hit 3 pages!
I have also read a report that talking on a cell phone while driving is just as bad as driving with an illegal blood alcahol content! Why haven't we started a war on the Talk Drivers? Link: http://unews.utah.edu/p/?r=062206-1
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all drugs should be legal and cheap... only a small percent of the people will become addicts or even use recreationaly if...
The penalties for being loaded when you shouldn't be remain.. I won't work beside someone who is loaded... I don't want to share the road with him. employers should be allowed to drug test employees and fire the worthless ahole if they are found to be loaded..
I also do not want to pay for the "war on drugs" and do not want it to become some new high tax sin.. a lb of heroin should cost what it takes to produce plus normal sales tax.. maybe $50 a pound... let the any adult who wants.. kill himself on it or just ruin his life..
people on welfare and unemployment should be drug tested regularly and cut off if found to be using.
getting druggies to accept responsibility for their actions is asking a bit much tho so.... we would probly have the prisons just as full up with their worthless carcases.
lazs
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Well said Lazs. I think if they legalize, there would be far fewer people to lock up and therefore lower incarceration costs. It's a win/win.
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Interestingly enough, most of the reasons that marijuana is currently illegal stem from the fact that it is illegal. The black market for it creates attracts the criminal element.
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So did you read what I asked? Would you care to contribute to our discourse? Or just be a griefer?
It had been a while since I was griefer and I was feeling a little spunky yesterday. Please don't take it personally. :)
I think Sig220 is a little misguided in his zealousness. The Bible does not say partaking of marijuana is a sin. In fact, since it's an herb some in fact take Genesis 1:29 as permission to consume it:
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
But the Bible also states that you should obey the law of your country as long as it doesn't interfere with God's laws.
I've worked with quite a few people who would come to work "baked" and I would have to work twice as hard and do most of their job for them to get things done. I was also put in danger by these same persons on several occasions and I'd just as soon not have to put up with that kind of behavior ever again.
As long as it's the law, I will thank you to keep away from me while you indulge. If you want to lobby for a change in that law, knock yourself out.
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aye, people who cannot control themselves are terrible to work with. I almost lost a limb due to an alcoholic coworker.
I do work to help educate people who have bought into the DEA's propaganda, its tough work not having milliions to budget to commercials to combat the misinformation they give though.
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all drugs should be legal and cheap... only a small percent of the people will become addicts or even use recreationaly if...
The penalties for being loaded when you shouldn't be remain.. I won't work beside someone who is loaded... I don't want to share the road with him. employers should be allowed to drug test employees and fire the worthless ahole if they are found to be loaded..
I also do not want to pay for the "war on drugs" and do not want it to become some new high tax sin.. a lb of heroin should cost what it takes to produce plus normal sales tax.. maybe $50 a pound... let the any adult who wants.. kill himself on it or just ruin his life..
people on welfare and unemployment should be drug tested regularly and cut off if found to be using.
getting druggies to accept responsibility for their actions is asking a bit much tho so.... we would probly have the prisons just as full up with their worthless carcases.
lazs
Impossible solutions don't really solve anything.
What do you do with the strung out drug adicts? Just leave them be? What do you do with the people that lose their jobs because of drug addiction and have to resort to stealing to buy them legally? What do you do with the people?
Right now there is a gate valve on drug use. It's cost prohibitive and carries punitive posibilities. I'll argue to the end of time that removing those two hurdles would offer up any kind of positive solution in any society on earth.
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Impossible solutions don't really solve anything.
What do you do with the strung out drug adicts? Just leave them be? What do you do with the people that lose their jobs because of drug addiction and have to resort to stealing to buy them legally? What do you do with the people?
Right now there is a gate valve on drug use. It's cost prohibitive and carries punitive posibilities. I'll argue to the end of time that removing those two hurdles would offer up any kind of positive solution in any society on earth.
Well you send the addicts to rehab, the theives to jail. The ones that lose their job, ding fries are done.
The cost of drugs is not prohibative and the penalties do not seem to be a deterrent. The current system does, however, create a black market and make criminals out of ordinarily law abiding citizens.
I'm not in favor of legalizing all drugs, but there is a more than strong case for legalizing marijuana.
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I like peanutbutter jelly sammiches!
I second this notion and would also like to add that I do, in fact, like tacos
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Last serial post, I promise! I just didn't get a chance to respond till we hit 3 pages!
I have also read a report that talking on a cell phone while driving is just as bad as driving with an illegal blood alcahol content! Why haven't we started a war on the Talk Drivers? Link: http://unews.utah.edu/p/?r=062206-1
We have, California, Connecticut, New York and New Jersey have primary laws against cell phones while driving and Washington has a secondary law against it. 17 other states have laws prohibiting novice drivers from using cell phones. Oh no, goodbye rights! http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/cellphone_laws.html (http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/cellphone_laws.html)
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Urine tests can only show a history of use. Urine tests are also quite easy to beat.
I am not Lambo. This is his wife. He has asked me to clear up some things. It is true that urine tests show past use. However, in forensic testing we don't care about past use. Our concern is more immediate. That is why the forensic labs set considerably higher cutoffs than other types of labs. At our cutoffs it rules out passive inhalation and brings the time limit to within 3 days (12 to 24 hrs in blood). For the record I have never been on the stand and said "That person was high". The truth is I don't know for sure. It is ultimately up to the jury to decide guilt. If I get on the stand and say I found THCA and these are the effects and the officer has already descibed the suspects behavior and reactions, the jury will decide if that person was under the influence. Also, the testing we do is very specific and not easy to beat. It is not a simple color test which can be fooled. We use immunoassays for screening and then go on to something called a gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer for confirmation. Trust me, not easy to fool. Mrs. Lambo
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Well you send the addicts to rehab, the theives to jail. The ones that lose their job, ding fries are done.
I think you're greatly underestimating how many addicts there'd be and how many people would be affected by this in a manner that would render them a burden on society. "Just leaving them alone" is not an option society seems to be capable of chosing, so there's cost.
The cost of drugs is not prohibative and the penalties do not seem to be a deterrent. The current system does, however, create a black market and make criminals out of ordinarily law abiding citizens.
There will always be something "ordinarily law abiding citizens" will do illegally. Always. Speeding, drugs, stealing cable, whatever. If it saves them money or sticks it to someone else or makes them feel outside of the system, they'll do it. It's just the way it is. There really is no such thing as a "ordinarilly law abiding citizen".
I'm not in favor of legalizing all drugs, but there is a more than strong case for legalizing marijuana.
There is absolutely not a strong case for legalizing marijuana. Once again, it is in an excellent position to be the prime illegal drug. You couldn't ask for a better drug to make illegal just because it is as harmless as people defending it make it out to be. Legalizing it, alone, would not kill society or send it into ruin, but it would set a precident that would open the door for legaling the next drug in line which is not as harmless. The arguments you can apply to marijuana legalization can be applied to virtually any drug.
There is a balance that needs to be maintained in regards to illegal activity and what can or shouldn't be tollerated. There needs to be illegal activities that can be somewhat tollerated with token gestures made to show it actually is illegal. This is actually a cornerstone of civilization... the ability to go outside of the system. Legalizing pot would make the same amount of people travel even farther to get outside of the system. The same people who don't want to get a real job right now will look for other illegal activity to survive on. This does nothing to address ciminal activity. It does nothing to bandaid society's ills.
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Say, does this give us the right to start forest fires? :lol
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Legalize it....do NOT tax it...keep it as cheap as possible....but DO allow companies to sack those who use it on the job. Allowing unlimited use may help clean up the gene pool. Also, permit health insurance companies to deny coverage to anyone with a history of drug or alcohol abuse.
Sorry, but I just don't have any sympathy for chronic drunks, potheads, and hip socialites who don't like having their habits inconvenienced.
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mini... I know a bit about drugs and addiction and the people who use and are addicted...
There are a finite number of drug users. there is a finite number of people who will screw up their lives with drugs... alcohol is a drug.. it is readily available.. a certain percent become alcoholics.. that number does not change because of legality.
would you show up to work loaded on pot of heroin if you knew you would lose your job? In the 7 years that our city has participated in the DOT program for drivers with random drug tests.. no one has been fired (caught) on drugs. Do you think it is the fact that drugs are illegal or the fact that they are now tested and will lose their livelyhood?
It is of course.. the latter. Your "gate valve" is the persons fear of losing everything he has.. jail is not much more piling on.
Pot is no better or worse than alcohol or heroin.. It is all the same to the person who is run into by the loadies car or crushed by the loaded backhoe operator.
I think that relaxed drug laws will bring more freedom of employers to test and weed out the misfits who, are with us in any case. The druggies who are addicted are not working in any case and they are breaking into your car as we speak... they need to break into a few more cars tho cause the drugs are very expensive. If a pound of heroin or crank or pot was $50.. they could break into one car a month or year to stay in a worthless stupor.
On the flip side.. some jobs would have no drug policy.. If they felt it helped creativity (doubtful) or that there was no safety hazard worse that paper cuts or stapling your hand to the desk... they could allow the woirthless chits to work there loaded. I have never seen a pot head worth a damn tho.
The more people seen what the real life effects of wasting your life for no reason were.. the less attractive it would be.. less cool and more seedy and stupid. the addicts would do what addicts do.. regardless of the laws.
Laughing at pot heads is great sport.. they are clumsy and stupid and funny looking.. it would be standard to make fun of em once they were outed. expressions like "are you stupid of just on pot?" would become part of normal speech. Watching them try to defend themselves would be alternately pathetic and amusing.
The number of people willing to be.. appear to be... pathetic, is finite.
lazs
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Once again, it is in an excellent position to be the prime illegal drug. You couldn't ask for a better drug to make illegal just because it is as harmless as people defending it make it out to be. Legalizing it, alone, would not kill society or send it into ruin, but it would set a precident that would open the door for legaling the next drug in line which is not as harmless. The arguments you can apply to marijuana legalization can be applied to virtually any drug.
So just because this stupid, arbitrary law has been on the books for so long we need to keep it intact? What sort of a society are we promoting when we don't make improvements to our understanding? We should just keep sending thousands of people to jail for non-violent offenses just because 'it's always been done that way?'... Yes, they broke a law--an irrational law which should have been broken... An irrational law that was put into place for irrational reasons. What the hell are we, anyway, hostages of the government?
They legalized alcohol. That was the precedent. There is profit to be made and jail cells to empty if weed were legalized. Instead of adhering to old rules simply for the sake of adhering to old rules, why don't we move forward, admit it was a mistake from the beginning, and salvage what we can from a situation that is clearly not being controlled by legislation or law enforcement.
Cornerstone of society my ass. It's called evolution. If following outdated laws is the cornerstone of society, black men would still be in chains and the land your home rests on would still belong to the British crown.
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A koala was sitting in a gum tree...... smoking a joint when a little lizard walked past, looked up and said, "Hey Koala! What are you doing?"
The koala said, "Smoking a joint, come up and have some."
So the little lizard climbed up and sat next to the koala where they enjoyed a few joints. After a while the little lizard said that his mouth was "dry" and that he was going to get a drink from the river. The little lizard was so stoned that he leaned too far over and fell into the river.
A crocodile saw this and swam over to the little lizard and helped him to the side. Then he asked the little lizard, "What's the matter with you?"
The little lizard explained to the crocodile that he was sitting smoking a joint with the koala in the tree, got too stoned and then fell into the river while taking a drink. The crocodile said that he had to check this out and walked into the rain forest, found the tree where the koala was sitting finishing a joint. The crocodile looked up and said, "Hey you!"
So the koala looked down at him and said,
"Daaaaammm dude... How much water did you drink?!!"
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I'm that Koala, Jackal... I'm that Koala.
At least I wish I was.
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Did you ever meet a pothead, alcoholic, or compulsive gambler in real life that had any merit? I haven't.
If you watch cops, the usual suspects are drunk or on drugs. Hence their supreme stupidity.
Yeah, I see Majiuarna as catalyst for evil. You'd be blind to think otherwise.
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Did you ever meet a pothead, alcoholic, or compulsive gambler in real life that had any merit? I haven't.
If you watch cops, the usual suspects are drunk or on drugs. Hence their supreme stupidity.
Yeah, I see Majiuarna as catalyst for evil. You'd be blind to think otherwise.
You've never heard of an alcoholic or pot user that had any merit? Ever heard of Ernest Hemingway, or F. Scott Fitzgerald, or Hunter S. Thompson, or Edgar Allen Poe... Okay, those are all a stretch... How about Steven King? I suppose not.
I'll take a drunken pothead degenerate gambler over a judgmental myopic idiot any day.
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You've never heard of an alcoholic or pot user that had any merit? Ever heard of Ernest Hemingway, or F. Scott Fitzgerald, or Hunter S. Thompson, or Edgar Allen Poe... Okay, those are all a stretch... How about Steven King? I suppose not.
I'll take a drunken pothead degenerate gambler over a judgmental myopic idiot any day.
Ah Personal attack! I must have hit the nail on the head. Didn't Poe and Hemingway die young. Hemmingway killed himself I believe. I tell ya I have worked Alcholics and drug users in a factory setting. My former inlaws were abusers and frankly I stand my ground. Myopic uh hehe, I think you're being obtuse. :rofl
Let's go a little further here. Do you want to hire a drug addict or alcholic. Probably not. They could watch your store for you. Deal with your customers. Work on your costly complex equipment.
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The root of all modern mans problems is simple..... Mans greed of wealth and power is the root of evil, we all want more money, sense we live in a materialistic society now, Today people are judged by what trendy clothes and cars we own, as well as oversized homes people feel they need to have.
The war on drugs will never end, there is to much income for the Government to make thru rehab,fines and seizures of homes,cars and persosnal property
Like i said money is the root of evil
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The root of all modern mans problems is simple..... Mans greed of wealth and power is the root of evil, we all want more money, sense we live in a materialistic society now, Today people are judged by what trendy clothes and cars we own, as well as oversized homes people feel they need to have.
The war on drugs will never end, there is to much income for the Government to make thru rehab,fines and seizures of homes,cars and persosnal property
Like i said money is the root of evil
Actually, it is the "love" of money that is the root of all evil.
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Greed and religion is the root of all man's modern problems.
Weed is more of a solution than a problem ;)
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Greed and religion is the root of all man's modern problems.
Weed is more of a solution than a problem ;)
Man don't get me started on religion. :rolleyes:
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Ah Personal attack! I must have hit the nail on the head. Didn't Poe and Hemingway die young. Hemmingway killed himself I believe. I tell ya I have worked Alcholics and drug users in a factory setting. My former inlaws were abusers and frankly I stand my ground. Myopic uh hehe, I think you're being obtuse. :rofl
Let's go a little further here. Do you want to hire a drug addict or alcholic. Probably not. They could watch your store for you. Deal with your customers. Work on your costly complex equipment.
Hemingway committed suicide, and his suicide had nothing to do with his drinking. It was chronic pain from injuries suffered in a plane crash. He lived with it for years before doing himself in. I've met plenty of brilliant people in my life who were problem drinkers, and while their drinking may have affected their health, there is a very strong argument that their artistic ability would have suffered from imposed sobriety. I've also met plenty of sober abusive cavemen. Unfortunately I don't know enough factory workers, but if a little weed or alcohol can quell the hardship of working a hard job all day, I am all for it.
Imposing your beliefs on people because you think that something is bad is itself oppressive. I'd rather give people the freedom to decide rather than make rules that turn them into subjects of the state. Freedom is freedom, it has its benefit, and has its price, and government should strive to make fewer regulations, rather than more of them, just as they should strive to make fewer criminals, rather than more of them.
As it stands, anybody who wants to get drunk or high can do so. Drunks and addicts are not this nations biggest problem. Stupid legislation, on the other hand, may well be.
If you're willing to simply illegalize freedoms that don't suit your personal tastes, you're advocating oppression. Either way, neither you nor the government will make these decisions for the populace. People will continue to behave in this manner. They will simply become criminal. Some will get caught, most will not. We'll all pay the price in the form of taxes.
You either work with human nature or you work against it. We've tried for decades to work against it because working with it opens too many pandora's boxes. It also leads to less government control. Insanity can be defined as repeating the same act over and over again, expecting the results to change. Given this truth, proposing the imposition of further control over drugs is at best myopic and idiotic.
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getting loaded doesn't solve anything.. the best it can hope for is to not cause too much trouble.. not cause too much harm.
There are no good druggies or alcoholics.. just ones that aren't toooooo bad.
Hemmingway, Fitzgerald.. great writers and drunks.. the drinking didn't ruin their writing tooo badly I suppose but.. it sure ruined their lives and the lives of the people close to them.. even some who barely were around em.
Not everyone drinks or uses addictively tho... Most control the vice as well as anything else in their life.
Bottom line...It is not my business what they get loaded on.. It is also not my job to support the losers.
lazs
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Did you ever meet a pothead, alcoholic, or compulsive gambler in real life that had any merit? I haven't.
If you watch cops, the usual suspects are drunk or on drugs. Hence their supreme stupidity.
Yeah, I see Majiuarna as catalyst for evil. You'd be blind to think otherwise.
The only true force for evil in this world is Man. Everything else is just our excuses for being evil to each other.
That said, I work with pot heads all the time (the tech industry is filled with them), hell I know people who worked at apple and it was smoked on campus by the programmers.
Most pot heads you would never know talking to them. Hell you prolly know a bunch and have no idea, they just don't share it with you.
These are people making 100k or more a year and are not problem employees.
Granted I am not talking about adicts, I am talking about people who use it like booze and are in control of their lives. They far outnumber the ones who let it get out of hand.
:aok
I also would not want to be around them if they were working with dangerous equipment.
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I also would not want to be around them if they were working with dangerous equipment.
Hehe.
Around 25 years ago I had a 60/40 partnership, with another guy, of a roofing business for a side business at the time.
We bid on and won a contract for a very large apartment complex.
The head contractor, the framers, the trim crew, the masons, plumbers, electricians, dry wall crew, etc. were about as pot head as you could get.
About 7:00 to 7:30 A.M. there would be a huge crowd gathering in the center of the complex. Everyone getting geared up for the start of the day.
A Cheech and Chong movie had nothing on this sight. :)
You would have thought that the Sioux nation was having a pow wow. The smoke sort of hovered in the air
like fog. :)
The entire job was accident free from start to finish. There was a bonus from the head contractor for this and also one for coming in ahead of contract schedule.
Great bunch of guys and some great craftsmen that took pride in doing their jobs right the first time around.
There was one danger on this job though. You wanted to be very careful if you were on the job at 10:00 A.M. or somewhere around 2:45 to 3:00 P.M.
That`s when the Roach coaches made their rounds for break snacks.
You could easily get trampled in a stampede around these times. ;)
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neubob.. it has been my experience that people who self medicate because of "horrific back pain" or whatever.. only make things worse.. they are kidding themselves.. they would be better off getting a little exercise than trying to self medicate which only makes them weaker and less able to handle the pain.
jackal.. I also worked around loadies.. watched a pot head cut his thumb off. some were able to handle it better than others.. none NONE had better motor skills while loaded on pot.
There have been numerous tests done using driving courses that show that pot heads do as badly or worse than drunks.
I did see drunks work in a semi effective way.. I also have seen creative people who have never got loaded on anything.
lazs
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jackal.. I also worked around loadies.. watched a pot head cut his thumb off. some were able to handle it better than others.. none NONE had better motor skills while loaded on pot.
Agreed on that point.
I also have two acquaintances that lost limbs.
One lost his right hand in a two row cotton stripper.
One lost his left arm in a square bailer. He went back, done the exact same thing as the first time and lost his right leg to the knee.........on the same bailer.
Both were sober as a plank.
It`s the frame of mind and attitude I think.
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Lazs, the point here isn't effectiveness, or even quality of life. Hemingway self-medicated on pain killers after his accident, in the end it's the pain that got him. Fitzgerald, some say, would not have written as he did were it not for alcohol. Thompson certainly would have written differently. No matter. I regret ever bringing it up, and only did so because somebody said they didn't know any drunks that weren't worthless. There are and there always will be.
The point should be freedom from government involvement. They give us booze and cigarettes, but they don't give us weed. They give us opiates, sometimes, but not others. They suck at controlling all of the above, and yet people who don't indulge at all pay just as much as those who do. The war on drugs has done nothing besides given a bunch of mustachioed overgrown schoolyard bullies the opportunity to feel important and collect paychecks for physically abusing suspects.
All the BS reasons to keep this or that illegal, be the 'cornerstone of society' nonsense, or 'jesus says so' chant, none of them justify the resources this nation is expending just to be able to say that we're trying to do something. The reality is that few users that I know would change their habits if pot were legal. Supply isn't a problem, and to most, neither is cost. It's all a question of the side effects.
I believe we agree on this issue.
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Making it illegal or legal will not change the tendancy of government to "crack down" on whatever is next in line. The government has to establish that it is out to protect you at all costs. This is what more than just Christians are demanding. Head down to the bay area and check out the nanny laws sometime... the actual insistance on them... right along with all the reasons why we shouldn't be nannying drug use. The irony is quite thick.
Lazs, I do not pretend to have the vast drug experience that you do, nor the exoposure to it. I do know that people who drink have the ability to not drink at work and function quite well. Most of the stoners I know do not. Every single one of them has either been fired or transfered from group to group until they eventually quit. I'm sure there are a few casual users in there that don't fall into this category, but I'd wager it's very few.
Health wise, I have no objections to the "marijuana is no worse than alchohol" argument. When it comes to society, I don't believe it is as harmless as people think (especially with people who are above the casual use stage). I've not seen a greater collection of misfits than from the stoner ranks. Hell, most of the alchoholics I know are also stoners.
The main problem that I see with marijuana being legal is availability and it's actual impact. The observations I have made in regards to stoners can be narrowed down to this: They don't mature while they are stoned. Other results vary by individual as far as making them more/less violent and impacts on other things, but the failure to mature is the one consistant thing I see. I don't see this with alchohol. If this is made widely available, it will become widely available to people I'd rather see maturing (high schoolers) than settling in a comfort zone of ignorance and spending their life there. I think legalization would swing that pendulum in the wrong direction at a time when we need increased focus... not decreased.
As for the "War on Drugs".. just acknowledge it will be "The war on <insert cause here>" no matter what you legalize or don't legalize. If you want to end the war on drugs, cut the funding and arm your populace.
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sheesh.. I guess I don't agree with anyone here.
I think all drugs are bad.. they have very little use other than to get over the worst amount of pain in an injury and even then.. they prolong the amount of time it takes to heal.
I know that no person loaded on anything is better at his job than when he is not if it requires motor skills. I think that saying a great writer who was a drunk means that only drunks can be great writers is total BS.
I don't like to be around loadies.. they do not connect. they are on a different plain of reality and... even if you don't know they are loaded.. you know something is wrong.. you write it off to bad personality or just stupid but.. you know something is wrong.. just as soon avoid em.
But.. on the other side... It is none of my business if they ruin their lives.
I believe that I have used to excess every drug know to man 20 years ago. they were all illegal.. I had vast quantities. I could afford to give them away... addictive people like myself were a finite number.. the vast majority would not accept even free drugs.
The workplace today is not mostly drug free because of the drug laws and enforcement... the "war on drugs" it is drug free because of the testing allowed... more testing... less drug use.
There is a finite number of addicts and people willing to look stupid and ruin their lives. It matters not that the drugs are illegal or legal or expensive or free.
simple drug laws would work as well as what we have now... sell or give drugs to children... go to prison (teachers included)..
get caught on the job loaded.. get help or get fired.
get caught harming someone because you were impaired.. double the sentence.
drug test all people who receive welfare of any type including unemployment.
other than that... kill yourselves and your families for all I care.
lazs
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Yeah, Lazs, I think you're taking what I said a couple steps too far.
I never said that only drunks can be great writers. Nothing near that. I said that alcohol, for those select few that I mentioned, may have played a key role. They may have been great without it, but they would have been different.
My main point is freedom of choice. As you said, let them kill themselves, so I'll take that as agreement on that point.
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Well......one thing has been proven. Stephen King sucks without his coke. :rofl
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Ahh.. "may" have been better drunk or... just misserable? maybe depressed would be good enough? Drunks are whiners.. I enjoyed the works of both artists.. several other too of the drunk generation of writers. I don't think that it made much difference one way or the other tho.
We do agree tho that it is not yours or mines business if people want to self medicate or even kill themselves on any drug. It is our business when they harm others or operate machinery impaired around other people.
I will restate that I believe that there is a finite number of addicts and that we are at that number or close to it now. It won't make much difference in the number of addicts if the stuff was free.
I could offer you all the free heroin in the world and you wouldn't use it. I could offer you a hit of pot just before work and.. if you knew that you were likely to be drug tested and that if you were on pot.. you would be fired.. you would decline.
It is not the laws that have made for less drugs in the workplace.. it is the testing and the "zero tollerance" laws.
The pot heads and druggies here are unrealistic.. they see a world where they can go around in a stupor any time they like with no consequence.. that is not what will happen.. they will get fired or lose their license or be sued or get cut off on their welfare. They won't be looked at as "cutting edge" or cool.
If the drugs were legal they would just be seen for the buffoons that they are. We would be laughing at "stupid druggie tricks" instead of stupid criminal ones.
I am no enemy of legalized drugs. I am no friend of drugs without consequence. If they get fired or cut off welfare or whatever... I would offer them treatment.. if they refused or failed.
I would have no problem watching them starve to death.
lazs
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We have, California, Connecticut, New York and New Jersey have primary laws against cell phones while driving and Washington has a secondary law against it. 17 other states have laws prohibiting novice drivers from using cell phones. Oh no, goodbye rights!
Driving is a privlege, not a right.
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airhead.. driving is a right. Only if you drive on public roads is it a privilege.
lazs
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airhead.. driving is a right. Only if you drive on public roads is it a privilege.
So get to work on private roads.
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I think Rome's problems were because they had egomaniacal fools for leaders. We're already there.
one word, caligula
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I dont think majiuarna is evil, no worse than alchohol. I dont smoke it (wouldnt be able to do anthing) but think they should legalize it.
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On that note I've never tried heroin but I heard its a helleva good drug. Can anyone comment? Any needle pockers? When Im 95 years old Im gona try it then they can burry my hallucinating corpse.
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On that note I've never tried heroin but I heard its a helleva good drug. Can anyone comment? Any needle pockers? When Im 95 years old Im gona try it then they can burry my hallucinating corpse.
Correction, last wish. Stick me with heroin and put me in a speeding car headed for a cliff in the grand canyon. Whoo what a rush!!! Then I meet god, joking.
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Correction, last wish. Stick me with heroin and put me in a speeding car headed for a cliff in the grand canyon. Whoo what a rush!!! Then I meet god, joking.
Why would God be joking?
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No not god, I met I was :lol
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mr coffee, stop being a post potato and putting 3 in a row
You have been slammed to earth, courtesy of moi.
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*
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I cannot believe that nobody has posted this! :devil
Girls = Time x Money
and any good economics student will tell you
Time = Money
so therefore we can assume
Girls = Money2
and as has already been pointed out
Money = √All Evil
therefore we can deduce
Girls = Evil!
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I cannot believe that nobody has posted this! :devil
Girls = Time x Money
and any good economics student will tell you
Time = Money
so therefore we can assume
Girls = Money2
and as has already been pointed out
Money = √All Evil
therefore we can deduce
Girls = Evil!
ahhh you SuX0r i was about to post that! :mad:
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No, it is instead a matter of morality.
These are immoral activities that violate God's laws. Anyone who engages in them, thus risks damnation for all of eternity.
Just look at what happened to the corrupt society of the Roman Empire. Do you want that to happen to the USA too??
The Roman Empire lasted six or seven hundred years and only really declined after the introduction of Chrisitianity. It was doing just fine until then. If the US does as well as that you will have nothing to complain about.
I say legalise it, then tax the hell out of it. Treat it like Liquour and cigarettes. What will make not so popular will be the fact that medical insurance companies won't touch you if you partake of the drug.
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yep cpxx.. there is more to life than law. laws get ignored all the time.. the druggies break the law because the drug laws are stupid and badly enforced and there is a huge profit to be made just in the fact that there is a demand that is illegal.
Life would still go on... the people who are addicts would still be addicts. the people who aren't.. well it is not because it is illegal.. it is because they have other reasons.. their health.. their jobs.. their own brand of morality and most.. like to experience life.
coffee.. heroin does not make you hallucinate.. it makes you not care about your problems. If you get any of the nasty cancers before you die they will probly give you all the morphine you want.
lazs
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Treat it like Liquour and cigarettes.
If it's like liquor and cigarettes then it should stay illegal. Tobacco kills more people than anything, and liquor is responsible for 50% of traffic fatalities and who knows how many wrecked lives?
Lumping the three together puts marijuana in a far worse light and makes it seem more dangerous and powerful than it really is....saying it should be legal cause it's no worse than tobacco and alcohol is like saying firecrackers should be legal cause they're no more dangerous than hand grenades.
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Never turn up at work on your day off. :O The brand's literature said 24 hour detection. Quite a few people got fired. Metabolism helps on those tests I think.
How can you get fired for smoking weed off the clock?
Where do you work? If you're in the Air Force or something... far call... though I suspect that you wouldn't be smoking at all if you were in the Air Force.
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....saying it should be legal cause it's no worse than tobacco and alcohol is like saying firecrackers should be legal cause they're no more dangerous than hand grenades.
Firecrackers are illegal?
Hmmm, some racket these guys got around the 4th of July and New Years then.....Maybe the cops look the other way cause they get a kick back? :noid
Oh, these guys are http://www.tntfireworks.com
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The root of all man's modern problems .......................GREED!!!! :(
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The root of all man's modern problems .......................GREED!!!! :(
The hunger for more is what drives men forward. Without this hunger there would be no innovation, no discovery, no free enterprise and no social evolution.
It's laziness and envy that turn men evil.
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How can you get fired for smoking weed off the clock?
Where do you work? If you're in the Air Force or something... far call... though I suspect that you wouldn't be smoking at all if you were in the Air Force.
It was a car dealership at the time. I was being nice and went with a friend to test-drive some cars who was intimidated by the vulture-like salesmen. I walked past my department, got called over, and "Hey while you're here, go see HR upstairs, they just asked for you." IIRC, some mechanics, the customer complaints manager, "the last person you'd suspect" from the parts department, and a gaggle of sales people were all fired. The techs were all for pot, the sales people for mostly cocaine. All of it was triggered by somebody at another store getting caught doing something they shouldn't.
I've got a successful business of my own now.. doesn't matter what I do in the evenings as long as it's an evening-only hobby.
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The root of all man's modern problems .......................GREED!!!! :(
The root of all man`s problems..................... .....Man.
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:rofl :rofl How about the guy that took Viagra, before driving to his girlfrieds home ??? It was 1 hrs dive !
so imagine how it is flying with a stick...U know between !!! :rock
It sure is more dangerous, than pot !..unless U happen to get hold of our BC Bud ! :rofl
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It sure is more dangerous, than pot !..unless U happen to get hold of our BC Bud ! :rofl
BC is kind of weak, like 3/5. Try something strong like OG Kush or NY Diesel. Those will put you on your butt.
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airhead.. I have heard that smoking a joint is like the tar from 20 ciggs.. that seems about right by looking at pipes that have had pot smoked in em.
I also seen where pot heads do as bad or worse on a driving course than drunks so...
I would say lumping pot in with ciggs and booze is pretty fair.
lazs
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The root of all man's modern problems .......................GREED!!!! :(
(http://www.vujer.com/material/files/gordon_gecko.jpg)
The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind.
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airhead.. I have heard that smoking a joint is like the tar from 20 ciggs.. that seems about right by looking at pipes that have had pot smoked in em.
I also seen where pot heads do as bad or worse on a driving course than drunks so...
I would say lumping pot in with ciggs and booze is pretty fair.
lazs
That's why you use a vaporizer. No tar. Very popular amongst cancer patients who can't smoke a joint... or you bake brownies & cookies. Hell you can go to a protest in cali and buy marijuanna confections from a booth. ID? Not neccessary. Marijunna Medical card? Not needed either.
People have been getting high without damaging their lungs for a very long time.
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well.. people will still smoke it. and.. that does not get over the fact that they are as impaired when they drive as any drunk.
Point is.. it is not some harmless drug. not if you are sharing the road with the guy high on it.
Does that mean we have the right to ban it?
Not in my opinion... I don't think that it is any of my business what people get loaded on so long as they don't try to run machinery or.. talk to me.
lazs
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Lazs, I really enjoy reading your posts. :)
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BC is kind of weak, like 3/5. Try something strong like OG Kush or NY Diesel. Those will put you on your butt.
BC .. Bud weak...? :cry.....Not according RCMP on our Island...Its the strongest that they came accross !! :aok
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LOL.. thanks texasmom.. I will take that in the spirit it was said in.
lazs
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Oh come on, Lazs- you and I both know the effects of pot are much, much milder than the effects of alcohol. I'm not trying to justify the use of pot or condemn the use of alcohol, and ultimately it's the user who makes bad decisions that effect us all, and yeah, I wouldn't want to work next to someone who is baked, but seriously- alcohol causes more damage to society than pot does, by far.
Now don't make me cut and paste stats, Lazs.
Texasmom? Lazs is a pretty good guy in person, too.
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From the paramilitary raid gone bad thread:
Suave, care to explain to us how marijuana is the cause of much evil that plagues us? I'd really like to hear your reasoning, I'm sure it'll provide a few good laughs. :lol
::edit:: anyone should feel free to voice their opinions too!
alchohol causes many many more problems than pot ever will.
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airhead.. who are you jerking around? I have smoked pot that damn near paralyzed me. Tests have been run on people loaded on pot and those drunk on a closed driving course and there was no difference.
Once a pot head friend of mine (great race car driver btw) and I were out with him driving his pumped up 56 Nomad (370 hp LT1 motor).. he stopped at the light.. I didn't say much but the light was green.. he waited till it turned red then took off. His reply when I told him was classic pot head...
"huh"?
No.. I do not want to share the road with drunks and pot heads.. even tho I can still dodge and weave pretty good.
lazs
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airhead.. who are you jerking around? I have smoked pot that damn near paralyzed me. Tests have been run on people loaded on pot and those drunk on a closed driving course and there was no difference.
Once a pot head friend of mine (great race car driver btw) and I were out with him driving his pumped up 56 Nomad (370 hp LT1 motor).. he stopped at the light.. I didn't say much but the light was green.. he waited till it turned red then took off. His reply when I told him was classic pot head...
"huh"?
No.. I do not want to share the road with drunks and pot heads.. even tho I can still dodge and weave pretty good.
lazs
and if yas were drunk, you would've kicked the hell out of each other....IF he had stopped for the light to begin with. neither one of ya should've been in the car anway.....not in that condition anyway.
if you smoked some that almost paralyzed ya, then it was laced with something else, or bad to begin with. i wasn't condoning either one.....i used to drink some...and i've smoked too......don't do either now as i've learned better...and thank god that i never killed anyone.
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and if yas were drunk, you would've kicked the hell out of each other....IF he had stopped for the light to begin with. neither one of ya should've been in the car anway.....not in that condition anyway.
if you smoked some that almost paralyzed ya, then it was laced with something else, or bad to begin with. i wasn't condoning either one.....i used to drink some...and i've smoked too......don't do either now as i've learned better...and thank god that i never killed anyone.
:aok AMEN Brother, AMEN !.......Best answer, as far as pot goes...No!!!...Yes, Booze too :salute
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all I can say is that if you have never smoked any pot that put you into the dirt and made you incapable of action then you have never smoked any good pot.
If you think that booze is much worse than pot so far as incapacitating someone then you have never really had any experience with the two drugs and... you have never seen any studies done on driving while on the two drugs.
I guess if they limited the use of legal pot to the crap lousy stuff you are smoking then they wouldn't need to regulate it's use at all. Just like if they limited all drinks to 1% alcohol.
lazs
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what the statistics dont show you about marijuana related accidents is that some hot shot kid with a 30 day old license is the one speeding around showing off his moms car to his friends. just because pot is found in the car, doesnt imply someone was smoking it either. i dont see it to impare one that much, but everyones different, thats just my argument. i think both sides of the argument are biased... ive even seen a video where one does a driving test before and after smoking pot, and the results show that he was better off after smoking a doobie :) been a while since i smoked... ah the good ol days
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The hunger for more is what drives men forward. Without this hunger there would be no innovation, no discovery, no free enterprise and no social evolution.
It's laziness and envy that turn men evil.
The hunger for more is ok Greedhe other hand is "root of all problems".....Our leaders and corperations shipping jobs to China=Greed
Companys like Enron=greed....oil companys=Greed 123 bllion in profit is not enough...Folks taking advantage of our welfare system=Greed.....
Law makers making laws to benfit themselves=greed.....you could go on and on and on about greed but In my opinion this is what is killing America.
Another thing is Dishonesty= Greed...not caring about your brother man=greed.....In this world its all about whats best for me and screw the rest!
Can't believe that pot is such a huge subject line on this disscussion....weed is that last thing I would think of in the title of"The root of all man's modern problems"
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Greed is what happens when the hunger for more becomes so desperate that people are willing to compromise productivity, efficiency and progress to achieve it. It's the difference between an innovator and a drug dealer. Both grow rich, one grows rich while contributing to society, the grows rich while costing society.
I have no problem with billionaires. The more the better, as far as I'm concerned.
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Greed is what happens when the hunger for more becomes so desperate that people are willing to compromise productivity, efficiency and progress to achieve it. It's the difference between an innovator and a drug dealer. Both grow rich, one grows rich while contributing to society, the grows rich while costing society.
I have no problem with billionaires. The more the better, as far as I'm concerned.
Here again....Example.......billio naires that keep pooring on the coals when many people suffer from their greed...Just one of many examples is oil.
it is killing the Middle class and lower class....yet they keep making billions while others suffer.Greed
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ahh.. so ritz.. you think you could do better in the driving course than either the drunks or the pot heads that both thought the others drug of choice was the more evil? neither the pot heads nor the drunks did any better.. they were both equally lousy..
I don't care.. make all drugs cheap and legal.. just don't start telling me that you are fine while loaded on em and deserve to share the job site or road with me. kid yourself but spare me.
And that is the root of the problem... the druggies all want to have legal drugs but then the fantasy gets murky doesn't it?
You don't want to have to take any responsibility. You don't want to have to admit you are impaired and that you can't just do your drug of choice anywhere and in any situation you want.
you are not special.. you are loaded.. you are impaired.. you are not better.. you are less.
lazs
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Greed is what happens when the hunger for more becomes so desperate that people are willing to compromise productivity, efficiency and progress to achieve it. It's the difference between an innovator and a drug dealer. Both grow rich, one grows rich while contributing to society, the grows rich while costing society.
I have no problem with billionaires. The more the better, as far as I'm concerned.
:aok
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Legalize it.
The three biggest offences performed by a pot smoker:
#1 Thinks too much
#2 Can't figure out what channel too watch.
#3 Drives too slow in the fast lane.
I do not smoke myself anymore, but I believe alcohol much more dangerous IMOP.
Just remember kids, only users loose drugs!
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they should legalize drugs so the genetically predisposed addicts can quickly die off and stop polluting the gene pool.
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Just remember kids, only users loose drugs!
You have no idea just how true that is :lol
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all I can say is that if you have never smoked any pot that put you into the dirt and made you incapable of action then you have never smoked any good pot.
If you think that booze is much worse than pot so far as incapacitating someone then you have never really had any experience with the two drugs and... you have never seen any studies done on driving while on the two drugs.
I guess if they limited the use of legal pot to the crap lousy stuff you are smoking then they wouldn't need to regulate it's use at all. Just like if they limited all drinks to 1% alcohol.
lazs
you apparently just don't get it....but by the way you described that incedent at the traffic light, i think we can all understand that. but for the hell of it, lets try it like this.....
take 40 people. split them into two groups. give one group whatever they want to drink, and how ever much they want. give the other group the best pot you can get your hands on. keep them all locked together for 24 hours. now........just how many do you think will come out of the drunk room? probably only a couple, as those couple kicked the watermelon out of the rest. go to the potheads room. you'll probably find that those who've not passed out from smoking too much are all getting along juuuust fine. they probably can't do anything useful, but theyll al have a blast at it. so now......which one caused problems now???? lets go back to your traffic light incedent. it's almost guarenteed, that you wouldn't have even stopped for that light, if he was drunk, but asume for the sake of argument he did. then he did what you said...it turns green, then back to red, THEN he goes. both of you being drunk, you'd probably started yelling at him, him yelling back, then one of ya would've swung, and then there'd have ben the accident.and you CAN'T tell me i'm wrong. i've seen that a LOT. hell, i just saw 2 friends aalmost get into a fistfight over a friggin baseball attendance conversation!!!! :O HOW???? WHY????
do ya see the point now? NO ONE SHOULD EVER DRIVE OR OPERATE MACHINERY WHEN THEY'RE UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF EITHER ONE!!!!!! BUT PEOPLE GET VIOLENT, AND BELLIGERENT WHEN THEY'RE DRUNK. THEY GET MELLOW AND LAID BACK WHEN THEY'RE HIGH. i've seen it, most all of my cop friends have, my emt friends have, hell...even my air force friends have........
i'll say it again too.......when i think of how drunk i was a few times behind the wheel...many many many years ago, i thank GOD i never killed anyone or myself.
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what the statistics dont show you about marijuana related accidents is that some hot shot kid with a 30 day old license is the one speeding around showing off his moms car to his friends. just because pot is found in the car, doesnt imply someone was smoking it either. i dont see it to impare one that much, but everyones different, thats just my argument. i think both sides of the argument are biased... ive even seen a video where one does a driving test before and after smoking pot, and the results show that he was better off after smoking a doobie :) been a while since i smoked... ah the good ol days
i graduated in 1980. since then, i've smoked it 3 times. i value my life, and sanity too much to do it anymore. all of my hobbies would be interfered with by it....flying R/C models, flying the real thing(private pilot single engine land), drag racing, competitave archery, etc.......
it's just not worth it anymore.
i'd bet that vid was somehow doctored BTW.......pot can/does/will incapacitate you, just as badly as alchohol will.....you just won't become violent when something bad happens, that's all.
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The hunger for more is ok Greedhe other hand is "root of all problems".....Our leaders and corperations shipping jobs to China=Greed
Companys like Enron=greed....oil companys=Greed 123 bllion in profit is not enough...Folks taking advantage of our welfare system=Greed.....
Law makers making laws to benfit themselves=greed.....you could go on and on and on about greed but In my opinion this is what is killing America.
Another thing is Dishonesty= Greed...not caring about your brother man=greed.....In this world its all about whats best for me and screw the rest!
Can't believe that pot is such a huge subject line on this disscussion....weed is that last thing I would think of in the title of"The root of all man's modern problems"
very good point. BTW...your icon thing to the left........friggin scary!! :O :rofl
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Legalize it.
The three biggest offences performed by a pot smoker:
#1 Thinks too much
#2 Can't figure out what channel too watch.
#3 Drives too slow in the fast lane.
I do not smoke myself anymore, but I believe alcohol much more dangerous IMOP.
Just remember kids, only users loose drugs!
:rofl
you;re right....neither one is worth the risk....especially today when they seem to lace the watermelon with more chit.....bad bad bad news.......
worst of all.......i feel old saying all these things i'm saying here...my grandmom told me i would someday. wish i could tell her she was right :pray
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cap.. we agree that no one should operate machinery when loaded on either drug. I am relieved you realize that.. since.. the tests of subjects on closed driving courses prove that there is no difference in ability to drive between drunks and pot heads.
As for your assertion that every drunk becomes a violent berserker.. hardly. many, if not most, drunks never get into a violent confrontation their entire lives.
Aggressiveness is not always wrong either.. a pot head incapable of acting aggressively is just as bad in some cases as someone who is maybe a tiny bit too aggressive.
It used to be fun to slap the pot heads. I don't think their girlfriends were too happy about their state.
lazs
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Lazs, back in the 60s I used to get stoned and go to my girlfriend's house? And her Mom wore this bright red cheek rouge, blue eye makeup, and upswept blonde hair. Well, anyway she had a little male cockatoo that would sit on her couch by her shoulder, and I'd look at them and they looked so much alike I'd get the giggles...
So once I went over there, stoned as usual, started giggling at how much her and the bird looked alike, only I didn't know it but she was a closet drinker and was pretty drunk that day--- and she went ballistic, screaming at me and she tossed me out-
That really funked my stone, man.
Just thought I'd share. :)
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yep.. I can identify with that. I smoked a lot of pot back in the day and had some real bad experiences with it where I wished I could muster up some will to fight.
The giggle often was not worth the helpless.
I may have been too overconfident on drugs like crank and booze but.. I drove better and moved better and could defend myself. with the people I was around in those days.. these were no small plus features.
I have spent many a long week/month/year on the combo of booze and crank. sideways. reds were probly the worst drug for me.. people would do their best to make sure I never got any. heroin.. pot.. hash.. all about the same to me.
lazs
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If ya had to do a mouth swab test to play AH each day...poor HiTech would go outta business.
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mini... I know a bit about drugs and addiction and the people who use and are addicted...
There are a finite number of drug users. there is a finite number of people who will screw up their lives with drugs... alcohol is a drug.. it is readily available.. a certain percent become alcoholics.. that number does not change because of legality.
would you show up to work loaded on pot of heroin if you knew you would lose your job? In the 7 years that our city has participated in the DOT program for drivers with random drug tests.. no one has been fired (caught) on drugs. Do you think it is the fact that drugs are illegal or the fact that they are now tested and will lose their livelyhood?
It is of course.. the latter. Your "gate valve" is the persons fear of losing everything he has.. jail is not much more piling on.
Pot is no better or worse than alcohol or heroin.. It is all the same to the person who is run into by the loadies car or crushed by the loaded backhoe operator.
I think that relaxed drug laws will bring more freedom of employers to test and weed out the misfits who, are with us in any case. The druggies who are addicted are not working in any case and they are breaking into your car as we speak... they need to break into a few more cars tho cause the drugs are very expensive. If a pound of heroin or crank or pot was $50.. they could break into one car a month or year to stay in a worthless stupor.
On the flip side.. some jobs would have no drug policy.. If they felt it helped creativity (doubtful) or that there was no safety hazard worse that paper cuts or stapling your hand to the desk... they could allow the woirthless chits to work there loaded. I have never seen a pot head worth a damn tho.
The more people seen what the real life effects of wasting your life for no reason were.. the less attractive it would be.. less cool and more seedy and stupid. the addicts would do what addicts do.. regardless of the laws.
Laughing at pot heads is great sport.. they are clumsy and stupid and funny looking.. it would be standard to make fun of em once they were outed. expressions like "are you stupid of just on pot?" would become part of normal speech. Watching them try to defend themselves would be alternately pathetic and amusing.
The number of people willing to be.. appear to be... pathetic, is finite.
lazs
well lazs i think this is the first time i disagree with you,
and any one who says weed and alcohol are the same,
for one, i used to drink many years ago but due to the fact that when i drank i became very violent, the anger came out of my heart very easy! so instead of beating the hell out of all my friends and strangers around me i quit, its been over 14 years.
now i am an avid "pothead" but since ive moved i haven't had any in about a month, and you will never see me break into a car!i personally know many people who are "POTHEADS" that are full members of society and they are good people, but ya i also know the type of "pothead" you refer to LAZS, but they are far and few!
what makes you think potheads are clumsy? im surprised that you would say something like that, clumsy is not a word ever associated with this pothead!
actually my balance is very good(far better than average) always has been. even stoned.
someone mentioned GOD and if we smoke will we be condemned to hell, thats absurd, my answer to that is, no way. if you have taken YESHUA(jesus) as your savior and ask for forgiveness you will be forgiven unless of course you wont forgive those who do you wrong,
YESHUA died about 2000 years ago for our sins long before we where born if we believe in that, and have faith that God, YAHAVEH raised him from death, than we will be forgiven our sins and we will inherit the kingdom of GOD. so let no man judge you in your deeds, or in your food, (but dont let your deeds or food be stumbling blocks for GODS children)
for if you are a man of GOD you will have GOD in your heart and you will not practice evil!! but we are man and fallible, and thankfully GOD is very merciful,
Religion has distorted what GOD whats from man what he expects from man, but if you want to know the truth you must search for it, ask God YAHAVEH through his son YESHUA for the discernment of the truth.
one truth i have found when you open a bible and you see LORD, in caps like that, in the original writings that is where Gods name was, at some point in history the jewish scribes decided it was bad luck to use Gods name so they took it out of the bible, thus now people think Gods name is "LORD"
i found a verse in the old testament that says " you will make people forget my name..." think about that.
anyways i wish all you to find God and enjoy peace, in the eternal.
Paul
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:noid :rock
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ink.. our experiences are different. Although.. I did know some violent drunks and drunks are more violent than pot heads.. sorry you were one. I was an alcoholic and drug addict for decades.
I am not comparing attitudes tho.. I don't care about violent.
Clumsy? I believe that you are fooling yourself.. pot heads do that. just like every other druggie.. they think their drug is special.
It is not. you are not a good driver on it.. no more than a drunk.. I drove Ok drunk.. that does not mean that booze is fine to drive on.. My level on my last drunk driving was .28 and I passed the roadside sobriety test.
Tests have been done.. not yours or my speculation but real tests.... pot heads and drunks in the real world on a closed driving course do equally badly. I don't want them on the road with me...
I think that you would be fine giving me a tat tho.. I don't want you to be out shooting with me tho or sharing the road.. I used to be loaded every day of my life.. everyone around me was too.. I let em all drive or I drove and for the most part we were fine.. does that mean those drugs are fine to drive on? of course not.
You should really take a good look at your addiction.. this coming from a former addict. You can trade one addiction for another but they are all harmful.
I am sorry.. I defend your right to go through life loaded... I just don't want you on the job or on the road with me while you are.. you think you are fine.. the studies and tests say you are not.. someone is in denial.
lazs
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Did you ever meet a pothead, alcoholic, or compulsive gambler in real life that had any merit? I haven't.
If you watch cops, the usual suspects are drunk or on drugs. Hence their supreme stupidity.
Yeah, I see Majiuarna as catalyst for evil. You'd be blind to think otherwise.
I've got news for ya... there are alcoholics everywhere. Some of them are better equipped than others to cope with it.
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yep sandie.. this is getting bad.. I have to agree with you on this small point.. some people are better able to cope with their addictions than others.. that is just the way we humans are. we really are individuals but.. all are impaired. functional does not mean "unaffected"
with alcohol blood levels 3 times what the law allows.. I would maintain that I was a better driver than my last ex or.. most asians for that matter.. that was true enough but it did not mean that I should be on the road.
The problem with addiction is that your drug is a seductive liar. It will tell you that you don't have a problem.. your life is fine or.. if it is obvious it is not.. then everything else.. everything but your friend your drug of choice, which YOU NEED is the problem.. bad luck.. evil people.. never your friend, your drug of choice.. which stupid people don't realize that YOU NEED TO MAKE YOU BETTER.
I would agree with some here tho that the "war on drugs" is the real evil.. it causes a lot more problems than it solves.. I have yet to see any problem it solved tho. I do see users in prison and people shot in the middle of the night in their own homes by police. I do see billions being spent on "the war" on drugs. I see a lot of criminals getting rich off the war on drugs. Maybe their is a positive result that I have not seen but I can't think of it.
no law or agency full of ninjas made my job drug free. the fact that the guys will lose their job and are tested made my job drug free.
lazs
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with alcohol blood levels 3 times what the law allows.. I would maintain that I was a better driver than my last ex or.. most asians for that matter..
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Lazs
i definitely agree with the driving and heavy machinery (not operating) while under the influence. when people drink and drive or are on real drugs and drive that is most assuredly wrong they are taking all the people who share the roads lives in hand and that is not right,
but i dont see pot as being a drug,( i do have people who wont let me ink em unless we blow a bone or two) its classified the same as heroin. by our "government". thats so bullcrap,
the way i see it, the government is and have been in the past the biggest drug dealers ever. but im not part of the government maybe they really do want us to be safe and are truly looking out for our best interests.
Paul
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ink.. you need to take a long hard look at your addiction. you have traded one mind altering and mood altering drug for another.. All drugs affect the mind and the physical.. pot will make you a cripple while on the worst/best of it.
It is a drug as powerful as most other illegal drugs. I would say that there are lots of drugs that are illegal that there are some jobs some people can work with on them.. heroin addicts can be great writers or musicians for instance.
I just don't want to share the road or be in any of your hands where quick thinking and physical ability is needed.
I am not sure what you are saying tho...
Are you saying that you want your drug to be legal and that it is still ok with you to put people in prison for using drugs you don't care for?
lazs
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Most people who use drugs to an excessive level have an underlying mental problem. These drugs actually help to alleviate this problem, but *may* cause other problems that have an even greater effect.
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Lazs...
well i certainly dont think we should put drug users in prison, freedom of choice
as far as pot making a person a cripple that is not gonna happen.
my dads twin brother is almost blind due to glaucoma, (he has never smoked pot) my dad on the other hand should have glaucomas of the eye but his vision is perfect, for a man his age, his doctor basicly told him it was the pot that stopped it. pot is a medicine, and should be used as such, i know all kinds of old timer pot heads that are not cripple, now i do agree that every thing used to excess is bad, there is only one thing that a person cant get to much of... that is love, every thing else in excess is bad for us, food we need it to live but it will kill us, i almost died due to pancreantitus i spent a month in the hospital and for four months was tube fed through my chest because of it, due to eating to much fat, i was 270 pounds. now i am allowed 10 grams of fat a day.
oxygen we need to live, but to much will kill us, what i am trying to say is "love" is the most important thing in this world and sad to say " the love of each other is gone from this world" people "love" there car or there house or there guns or what ever it is, but that is not the love i speak of, the love i speak of is GOD, GOD is love, and that love we can never get to much of.
Lazs you seem like a smart person and i can tell by what you say that you are not just talking crap, about your past addictions, and im very happy you over came them, but do you really believe that pot is as bad as heroin? pot is from GOD in the very beginning of the bible GOD says "i have giving you all seed bearing herbs to use for you it shall be food..." now before you jump to conclusions "Food" does not necessarily mean sustenance, for Yeshua (jesus) says to eat his body and drink his blood, do you think he was telling us to eat human flesh? of course not, food for the spirit or soul, that is what pot is, but again most things in excess is bad. now im NOT telling you to go get stoned, i would not want you to revert back to your addictions. and some people weed is that gateway . i have a very good friend that used to be addicted to pot and that led him to all other drugs so now he don't do any, he over came the drugs by stopping all, and for him that was great, i say he is a very good friend because i have been tattooing him for 15 years i covered his whole back and both his arms, and we became good friends while that was happening, i would be pissed at him if he smoked pot, cuz i know it would lead to other stuff, I have never been addicted to drugs i have done them all, just never got addicted to them. i am addicted to, believe it or not, Aces High.
but truly i am addicted to my wife and kids, i couldn't live with out them, nor would i want to!!!
Lazs do you believe in GOD? seriously? if not i wish you would open your heart, because he(used figuratively) loves us, he gave us life, and we should thank him for that, dont think about what religion has done in Gods "name" that is people actions, people have distorted what God has said.
anyways i must close
peace paul
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well... not gonna get into the biblical part of it or how much pot jesus smoked but...
You say pot is medical... I would put to you that heroin is medicinal and used far more than any form of pot.. it is also a plant.. it is "nature" I knew lots of functional heroin addicts.
alcohol is the original medical wonder... it can still be used to kill germs and can be injected to kill nerves.
No arguement that says that pot is not a mind altering drug is worth listening to.
I have no problem with people who use pot for the few medicinal reasons that they do or... with anyone who uses it to simply get high and ignore the real world.. that is their choice to make.. not mine.. none of my business.. but... Just like the pain sufferer that is on a heroin derivative or self medicating on booze..
I don't want to have them around me on the roads and.. to be honest.. not really that great to be around at all. I won't go shooting with loadies.
I think that those who want pot legalized are kidding themselves.. pot will not get respect from it.. the pot heads will be ridiculed and looked at with disgust. I have seen pot break up families. I have seen pot heads throw their livelyhood away.
There is no real difference between one addict and another. Most addicts reach a point where they are functional on their drug of choice no matter what it is.
Drugs.. including pot.. are liars. They tell you that they are your friend and that they are making you a better human... later.. they tell you that they are your only friend. They tell you that reality is the lie and that you have no problem except that you don't get enough of your drug.
As for my belief in god.. I do believe in a supreme being.. a creator who gave me the strength to do what is right if I listen and ask for it. I do not believe that any human understands what god wants except in his heart. I will not confuse mans laws with gods laws. I have no idea if jesus lived or not or was the son of god. How could I? I suspect that every religion in the world has some glimmer of what god is but has perverted that.
I believe this because when I have asked my god for the strength to get through things that I could not have on my own... he gave it to me. I tend to sink back into arrogance from time to time but... I realize where my real strength (such as it is) comes from.
I do not fear death or meeting my maker. My maker won't pick some group and say that they were the only ones who knew what he wanted and the rest will burn in some ltardglock poster version of hell.
lazs
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dont think(jesus)Yeshua smoked any pot, and i totaly respect your believes.