The root of all man's modern problems

[Mini D]

all drugs should be legal and cheap... only a small percent of the people will become addicts or even use recreationaly if...

The penalties for being loaded when you shouldn't be remain..  I won't work beside someone who is loaded...  I don't want to share the road with him.  employers should be allowed to drug test employees and fire the worthless ahole if they are found to be loaded.. 

I also do not want to pay for the "war on drugs" and do not want it to become some new high tax sin.. a lb of heroin should cost what it takes to produce plus normal sales tax..  maybe $50 a pound...  let the any adult who wants..  kill himself on it or just ruin his life..  

people on welfare and unemployment should be drug tested regularly and cut off if found to be using.

getting druggies to accept responsibility for their actions is asking a bit much tho so.... we would probly have the prisons just as full up with their worthless carcases.

lazs

Impossible solutions don't really solve anything.

What do you do with the strung out drug adicts? Just leave them be? What do you do with the people that lose their jobs because of drug addiction and have to resort to stealing to buy them legally? What do you do with the people?

Right now there is a gate valve on drug use. It's cost prohibitive and carries punitive posibilities. I'll argue to the end of time that removing those two hurdles would offer up any kind of positive solution in any society on earth.

[rpm]

Impossible solutions don't really solve anything.

What do you do with the strung out drug adicts? Just leave them be? What do you do with the people that lose their jobs because of drug addiction and have to resort to stealing to buy them legally? What do you do with the people?

Right now there is a gate valve on drug use. It's cost prohibitive and carries punitive posibilities. I'll argue to the end of time that removing those two hurdles would offer up any kind of positive solution in any society on earth.

Well you send the addicts to rehab, the theives to jail. The ones that lose their job, ding fries are done.

The cost of drugs is not prohibative and the penalties do not seem to be a deterrent. The current system does, however, create a black market and make criminals out of ordinarily law abiding citizens.

I'm not in favor of legalizing all drugs, but there is a more than strong case for legalizing marijuana.

[balance1]

I like peanutbutter jelly sammiches!

I second this notion and would also like to add that I do, in fact, like tacos

[nirvana]

Last serial post, I promise!  I just didn't get a chance to respond till we hit 3 pages!

I have also read a report that talking on a cell phone while driving is just as bad as driving with an illegal blood alcahol content!  Why haven't we started a war on the Talk Drivers?  Link: http://unews.utah.edu/p/?r=062206-1

We have, California, Connecticut, New York and New Jersey have primary laws against cell phones while driving and Washington has a secondary law against it.  17 other states have laws prohibiting novice drivers from using cell phones.  Oh no, goodbye rights!  http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/cellphone_laws.html

[lambo31]

Urine tests can only show a history of use. Urine tests are also quite easy to beat.

I am not Lambo.  This is his wife.  He has asked me to clear up some things. It is true that urine tests show past use. However, in forensic testing we don't care about past use.  Our concern is more immediate.  That is why the forensic labs set considerably higher cutoffs than other types of labs.  At our cutoffs it rules out passive inhalation and brings the time limit to within 3 days (12 to 24 hrs in blood).  For the record I have never been on the stand and said  "That person was high".  The truth is I don't know for sure.  It is ultimately up to the jury to decide guilt.  If I get on the stand and say I found THCA and these are the effects and the officer has already descibed the suspects behavior and reactions, the jury will decide if that person was under the influence.  Also, the testing we do is very specific and not easy to beat.  It is not a simple color test which can be fooled.  We use immunoassays for screening and then go on to something called a gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer for confirmation.  Trust me, not easy to fool.  Mrs. Lambo

[Mini D]

Well you send the addicts to rehab, the theives to jail. The ones that lose their job, ding fries are done.

I think you're greatly underestimating how many addicts there'd be and how many people would be affected by this in a manner that would render them a burden on society. "Just leaving them alone" is not an option society seems to be capable of chosing, so there's cost.

The cost of drugs is not prohibative and the penalties do not seem to be a deterrent. The current system does, however, create a black market and make criminals out of ordinarily law abiding citizens.

There will always be something "ordinarily law abiding citizens" will do illegally. Always. Speeding, drugs, stealing cable, whatever. If it saves them money or sticks it to someone else or makes them feel outside of the system, they'll do it. It's just the way it is. There really is no such thing as a "ordinarilly law abiding citizen".

I'm not in favor of legalizing all drugs, but there is a more than strong case for legalizing marijuana.

There is absolutely not a strong case for legalizing marijuana. Once again, it is in an excellent position to be the prime illegal drug. You couldn't ask for a better drug to make illegal just because it is as harmless as people defending it make it out to be. Legalizing it, alone, would not kill society or send it into ruin, but it would set a precident that would open the door for legaling the next drug in line which is not as harmless. The arguments you can apply to marijuana legalization can be applied to virtually any drug.

There is a balance that needs to be maintained in regards to illegal activity and what can or shouldn't be tollerated. There needs to be illegal activities that can be somewhat tollerated with token gestures made to show it actually is illegal. This is actually a cornerstone of civilization... the ability to go outside of the system. Legalizing pot would make the same amount of people travel even farther to get outside of the system. The same people who don't want to get a real job right now will look for other illegal activity to survive on. This does nothing to address ciminal activity. It does nothing to bandaid society's ills.

[EskimoJoe]

Say, does this give us the right to start forest fires? 

[Shuckins]

Legalize it....do NOT tax it...keep it as cheap as possible....but DO allow companies to sack those who use it on the job.  Allowing unlimited use may help clean up the gene pool.  Also, permit health insurance companies to deny coverage to anyone with a history of drug or alcohol abuse.

Sorry, but I just don't have any sympathy for chronic drunks, potheads, and hip socialites who don't like having their habits inconvenienced.

[lazs2]

mini... I know a bit about drugs and addiction and the people who use and are addicted... 

There are a finite number of drug users.    there is a finite number of people who will screw up their lives with drugs...  alcohol is a drug.. it is readily available.. a certain percent become alcoholics.. that number does not change because of legality.

would you show up to work loaded on pot of heroin if you knew you would lose your job?   In the 7 years that our city has participated in the DOT program for drivers with random drug tests.. no one has been fired (caught) on drugs.   Do you think it is the fact that drugs are illegal or the fact that they are now tested and will lose their livelyhood?

It is of course..  the latter.  Your "gate valve" is the persons fear of losing everything he has.. jail is not much more piling on.

Pot is no better or worse than alcohol or heroin.. It is all the same to the person who is run into by the loadies car or crushed by the loaded backhoe operator.

I think that relaxed drug laws will bring more freedom of employers to test and weed out the misfits who, are with us in any case.   The druggies who are addicted are not working in any case and they are breaking into your car as we speak... they need to break into a few more cars tho cause the drugs are very expensive.   If a pound of heroin or crank or pot was $50.. they could break into one car a month or year to stay in a worthless stupor.

On the flip side..  some jobs would have no drug policy.. If they felt it helped creativity (doubtful) or that there was no safety hazard worse that paper cuts or stapling your hand to the desk...  they could allow the woirthless chits to work there loaded.   I have never seen a pot head worth a damn tho.

The more people seen what the real life effects of wasting your life for no reason were.. the less attractive it would be.. less cool and more seedy and stupid.   the addicts would do what addicts do.. regardless of the laws.

Laughing at pot heads is great sport.. they are clumsy and stupid and funny looking..  it would be standard to make fun of em once they were outed.   expressions like "are you stupid of just on pot?" would become part of normal speech.   Watching them try to defend themselves would be alternately pathetic and amusing. 

The number of people willing to be.. appear to be... pathetic, is finite.

lazs

[Neubob]

Once again, it is in an excellent position to be the prime illegal drug. You couldn't ask for a better drug to make illegal just because it is as harmless as people defending it make it out to be. Legalizing it, alone, would not kill society or send it into ruin, but it would set a precident that would open the door for legaling the next drug in line which is not as harmless. The arguments you can apply to marijuana legalization can be applied to virtually any drug.

So just because this stupid, arbitrary law has been on the books for so long we need to keep it intact? What sort of a society are we promoting when we don't make improvements to our understanding? We should just keep sending thousands of people to jail for non-violent offenses just because 'it's always been done that way?'... Yes, they broke a law--an irrational law which should have been broken... An irrational law that was put into place for irrational reasons. What the hell are we, anyway, hostages of the government?

They legalized alcohol. That was the precedent. There is profit to be made and jail cells to empty if weed were legalized. Instead of adhering to old rules simply for the sake of adhering to old rules, why don't we move forward, admit it was a mistake from the beginning, and salvage what we can from a situation that is clearly not being controlled by legislation or law enforcement.

Cornerstone of society my ass. It's called evolution. If following outdated laws is the cornerstone of society, black men would still be in chains and the land your home rests on would still belong to the British crown.

[Jackal1]

A koala was sitting in a gum tree...... smoking a joint when a little lizard walked past, looked up and said, "Hey Koala! What are you doing?"

The koala said, "Smoking a joint, come up and have some."

So the little lizard climbed up and sat next to the koala where they enjoyed a few joints. After a while the little lizard said that his mouth was "dry" and that he was going to get a drink from the river. The little lizard was so stoned that he leaned too far over and fell into the river.

A crocodile saw this and swam over to the little lizard and helped him to the side. Then he asked the little lizard, "What's the matter with you?"

The little lizard explained to the crocodile that he was sitting smoking a joint with the koala in the tree, got too stoned and then fell into the river while taking a drink. The crocodile said that he had to check this out and walked into the rain forest, found the tree where the koala was sitting finishing a joint. The crocodile looked up and said, "Hey you!"

So the koala looked down at him and said,

"Daaaaammm dude... How much water did you drink?!!"

[Neubob]

I'm that Koala, Jackal... I'm that Koala.

At least I wish I was.

[Getback]

Did you ever meet a pothead, alcoholic, or compulsive gambler in real life that had any merit? I haven't.

If you watch cops, the usual suspects are drunk or on drugs. Hence their supreme stupidity.

Yeah, I see Majiuarna as catalyst for evil. You'd be blind to think otherwise.

[Neubob]

Did you ever meet a pothead, alcoholic, or compulsive gambler in real life that had any merit? I haven't.

If you watch cops, the usual suspects are drunk or on drugs. Hence their supreme stupidity.

Yeah, I see Majiuarna as catalyst for evil. You'd be blind to think otherwise.

You've never heard of an alcoholic or pot user that had any merit? Ever heard of Ernest Hemingway, or F. Scott Fitzgerald, or Hunter S. Thompson, or Edgar Allen Poe... Okay, those are all a stretch... How about Steven King? I suppose not.


I'll take a drunken pothead degenerate gambler over a judgmental myopic idiot any day.

[Getback]

You've never heard of an alcoholic or pot user that had any merit? Ever heard of Ernest Hemingway, or F. Scott Fitzgerald, or Hunter S. Thompson, or Edgar Allen Poe... Okay, those are all a stretch... How about Steven King? I suppose not.


I'll take a drunken pothead degenerate gambler over a judgmental myopic idiot any day.

Ah Personal attack! I must have hit the nail on the head. Didn't Poe and Hemingway die young. Hemmingway killed himself I believe. I tell ya I have worked Alcholics and drug users in a factory setting. My former inlaws were abusers and frankly I stand my ground. Myopic uh hehe, I think you're being obtuse. 

Let's go a little further here. Do you want to hire a drug addict or alcholic. Probably not. They could watch your store for you. Deal with your customers. Work on your costly complex equipment.