Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Sled on March 29, 2008, 12:06:42 AM
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This does not happen very offten, but we had an issue with the start of the logs tonight. Unfortuantly the logs did not start till some time around the T+30 mark. When they come out we will know for sure.
This will obviously be a problem with scoring, but should not effect the scoring of ground targets. This should only be a problem with the scoring of AC launches and kills.
We will look at what information is in the logs and do the best we can. But it is possible that we will only have a ground (object damage) score to give for this frame.
Sorry for this, I can only remembering it happening 3-4 times in the 4+ years I have been here.
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Well, our first large engagement was at +17min with a huge furball of planes.
That's going to be a lot of missing data.
I have a full film from take off to landing (with 2minutes left in event) if that helps reconstruct the logs at all.
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I hope they don't loose that much data....we think we had a really outstanding night...:(
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Are the logs going to be posted with the info they have?
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Yes they will.
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I am looking into the log glitch. Basically we lost all data before the T+43 mark.
From screen shots I have been able to reconstruct the bomb damage done by both sides. The strikes on A57 and A52 happened before T+43 the strikes on A48 and A31 happened before and after T+43.
As I said I can reconstruct the bomb damage. As air to air .. before T+43 I am attempting to piece things together but it doesn't look hopeful.
Also I know we broke 440 pilots tonight but again I can't give specific break outs per squads. I just wrote down the overall numbers.
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I hope they don't loose that much data....we think we had a really outstanding night...:(
I had confirmed 4-6kills before the logs were apparently started. :(
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That stinks the AoM most likely had around 20+ kills before the logs even started.... :(
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Believe me guys I know, I know .. I am trying different ways to get data but the glitch basically looks like I lost the first 43 minutes. The ground stuff I can figure out but not the air to air.
So I might just have to score the frame based on ground action.
Also from what I can tell the attack force sent to hit P40 was slaughtered before target. So the defenders of A31 and P40 didn't see as much action.
Heaviest fighting and early fighting seemed to between A52 and A48. Looks like the allied strike to A52 and the Japanese strike to A48 and P40 ran right into each other plus the defending forces of A52 and A48. Fighting rage early and from sectors 5,9 to 8,9 (100 miles of fighting as both strikes tried to punch through each other and the other sides defenders).
So fighting was brutal there.
Not sure how it was around the CVs. In the East was light after the A31 strike got in since the P40 strike was already dead. So the allies out in the east I think had little bit of action and then none.
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To bad on the logs :(
The AXIS plan centered on the AC kill ratio and not the target damage. I figured to exchange evenly the target damage but make up for it in AC kills. And as fate would have it our side pushed the fight early on before H+30. In fact I was probably the first plane down at H+13 or so.
I watched the pilot ratio through out and the AXIS side had the upper hand, but we started out with more also. Also I didnt use any twin engine bombers to lessen point loss's to the AXIS side. I have a AAR posted with more detail.
Be interesting to see how you score it.
Viper 61
AXIS CIC
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O man that stinks! Our group was going for a record to! We where trying to be the squad with the most kills ever in a FSO frame, but with out the logs of the largest fight of the night for us I suppose we are out of luck. :( Still was great night of fun though.:aok Even with missing half the logs we still show 22 Kills Id estimate we had around another 20 or so before the logs got started up, that would probably put us right around 45 kills or so for the night. Anywho was still great fun and <S> all the CMS for all your hard work.
On another note, so far in FSO history what has been the largest number of kills by 1 squad in a FSO frame?
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The first 40 or so mins hit us hard, we started with 12 pilots but by then we were down to 3 on record. Lost alot of pilots, but took at least 3 times that with us.
Scoring has to be out the window on this one. Without the AC kill tallies what would be the purpose of even giving a score, just might as well consider it a wash.
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Well the fighting in the air was massive and intense. After T+43 this was the AC kills:
JAPANESE
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03 A6M2s
37 B25Cs
11 F4Fs
03 P38Gs
14 P39Ds
34 P40Bs
96 Allied planes killed, 3 friendly fire incidents
AMERICANS
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67 A6M2s
05 B5N2s
01 KI61s
01 B25C
73 Japanese planes killed, 1 friendly fire incident.
However, basically I can't score the Air to Air portion of the frame since I know there was massive fighting before T+43, with much more substantial losses to A6M2s and B5N2s than shown here. Also I know that at least 14 P40Bs were lost in the T+43 (Nightmares lost that many before the T+43 mark).
Most of the allied B25C strikes came in after that mark so the info I was able to pull out of the logs after the glitch shows most of their deaths I believe (38 B25Cs lost to enemy and friend fire). I believe most of the strikes conducted by the Japanese on the allied bases came in before T+43 so I don't have there losses there (hinted at by only 5 B5N2s being captured as lost in the recovered logs).
As you said Viper the fighting and AC lost seemed to be evenly matched and hotly contested. So I can't go with the partial logs.
As for ground .. well that was 402 points to the Japanese and 212 points to the allies.
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O man that stinks! Our group was going for a record to! We where trying to be the squad with the most kills ever in a FSO frame, but with out the logs of the largest fight of the night for us I suppose we are out of luck. :( Still was great night of fun though.:aok Even with missing half the logs we still show 22 Kills Id estimate we had around another 20 or so before the logs got started up, that would probably put us right around 45 kills or so for the night. Anywho was still great fun and <S> all the CMS for all your hard work.
On another note, so far in FSO history what has been the largest number of kills by 1 squad in a FSO frame?
My old FSO squad had higher kills in a frame.
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How many? All A2A? Thats impressive.
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Axis won.. nuff said
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How many? All A2A? Thats impressive.
we had over 30 guys in the squad & yes, a2a
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AKKaz agreed. All I can really say is that the Japanese put more bombs on target than the Americans did; Roughly 2 to 1 (see above post).
As for air to air kills .. I can't really figure it out with the missing T+43 since I know there was massive and intense fighting between A52 and A48 and also over at A57. I think the strike came in and hit A31 just before T+43 so not sure what it was like over there or at any of the fleets.
C77 lost a CA and CV. C76 got hit by a B25C .. personal from USMC confirmed that and logs show 500 lb hit and my visual inspection showed a lot of guns gone so looks like CV76 took 1/3rd damage.
C51 CV took 2 x 100 lb bombs but looked less beat up that C76 .. so my best guess is fighting at C51 was less intense than at C76 but not sure.
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30 guys is a lot of guys! Wonder what if the Muppets had 30 guys running around in FSO instead of just the 13 we had? :t :lol
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30... :lol
I think the only thing to do is have another frame!
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On another note, so far in FSO history what has been the largest number of kills by 1 squad in a FSO frame?
I don't know if this was the largest number by a Squad, but it sure has to rank up there. In frame 3 of Operation Strangle the AK's had 37 kills.
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I know we don't keep this type of stat but I do remember a few years ago a bunch of Nightmare 190's had the honar of waxing a great number of Boston's with a side of Hurripain's.
At the end of the night we tallied 59 kills. We never saw too much escort and Bostons pop like zit's. I don't think thats the best we have done but I remember that one... I scored 11 my myself! It's been so many years but I'm sure that was far from the best ever... but who care's it's a FSO so it's not the point.
Heck I think Filth landed kills that night... thats how easy it was :)
MGD
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our squad wasnt even listed in the squads and none of us showed in the logs and we shot down like 8 planes destroyed a cuple of bomber hanges (2 my self and 1 plane) a cuple of us shot down planes
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Just do your best with the log issue, we'll all live with the outcome. A big THANKS from the Aces & 8s for the amount of work and effort by everyone running the scenario. Kudos to both Allies & Axis sides for fielding so many players.
Now, let's all prepare for the next FSO event. :aok
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Log - 43 minutes = no score. Since the frame cannot be scored accurately, one must either discount it or do it over. Anything else is a disservice to all.
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Believe me guys I know, I know .. I am trying different ways to get data but the glitch basically looks like I lost the first 43 minutes. The ground stuff I can figure out but not the air to air.
So I might just have to score the frame based on ground action.
Also from what I can tell the attack force sent to hit P40 was slaughtered before target. So the defenders of A31 and P40 didn't see as much action.
Heaviest fighting and early fighting seemed to between A52 and A48. Looks like the allied strike to A52 and the Japanese strike to A48 and P40 ran right into each other plus the defending forces of A52 and A48. Fighting rage early and from sectors 5,9 to 8,9 (100 miles of fighting as both strikes tried to punch through each other and the other sides defenders).
So fighting was brutal there.
Not sure how it was around the CVs. In the East was light after the A31 strike got in since the P40 strike was already dead. So the allies out in the east I think had little bit of action and then none.
Too bad about the logs. Ah, well. Bits happen, y'know? ;)
The 12 pilots of JG11 had a very busy time over A31 early in the frame. As we approached, we spotted seven P-40's patrolling just above us, but they seemed not to see us until we were well into our bombing attack. Since we were flying A6M2's, we tried to drop all our itty-bitty eggs on just one Bomber Hangar. Then all hell broke loose. There were a bunch of P-39's milling around down low in the ack - I think there were one or two Kates low over the base - and those seven P-40's came down to engage us. I put a bit of damage on a P-40 with a quick snapshot, and then chased down a P-39 and hosed him down with 7.7mm BBs, to no apparent end. JG11 lost two or three to a combination of ack and air-to-air hits, while downing some two or three of the defenders. The fight ended up low and in the ack, so JG11 turned back north. A few P-39's came out after us - perhaps as bait? - but we spotted a gaggle climbing in the distance back over the base, and declined to play into their plan. During the melee, a flight of B5N Kates made a level bombing attack to good effect. While I did see one or two P-40's attacking the Kates, my impression was that the IJN fighter sweep leading the Kates in managed to keep the defending CAP pretty much occupied.
As JG11 egressed, we saw several hangars and things burning. I estimated six structures in flames.
Thanks for running a fun frame! :salute
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Well we aren't going to do a do over because the next FSO starts in two weeks.
So your right .. I can either just go with the ground attack results (Japanese 402 and Americans 212) or I can just say .. guys I hope you had fun in frame 3 and don't worry about the score for it.
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Log - 43 minutes = no score. Since the frame cannot be scored accurately, one must either discount it or do it over. Anything else is a disservice to all.
Hmmmm...disregard previous post.
Allies stats: Japanese stats:
Pilots: 143 Kills: 74 Assists: 36 Pilots: 195 Kills: 99 Assists: 118
Objects Destroyed: 88 Deaths: 76 Landed: 60 Objects Destroyed: 6 Deaths: 52 Landed: 145
Bailed: 3 Captured: 16 Crashed: 8 Bailed: 19 Captured: 7 Crashed: 23
Ditched: 2 Disco'd: 5 Ditched: 8 Disco'd: 5
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Those stats reflect the fighting from T+43 to end frame.
A significant portion of planes were shot down from T+0 to T+43 including the bulk of the B5N2 losses.
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I know i had 7confermed and i was shown with only 2.
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Well we aren't going to do a do over because the next FSO starts in two weeks.
So your right .. I can either just go with the ground attack results (Japanese 402 and Americans 212) or I can just say .. guys I hope you had fun in frame 3 and don't worry about the score for it.
"or I can just say .. guys I hope you had fun in frame 3 and don't worry about the score for it." < Thats all that matters right there. A great Operation GD! Well done.
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Have to agree with the above statements.
Ghost Dancer and the rest of the crew did a great job. The log issue is just that and let it go. Just do what you can to keep it from happening again is all you can do. Have to admit this doesnt happen like this very often..... Logs fail and most of the action takes place in the first 15 - 30 minutes.
What a fight between A 48 and A52!! For of you that were there (both sides) <S>. Talk about a knife fight in a telephone booth!!! By my count both the ALLIED and AXIS strike packages hit almost head on and the defenders from A48 and A52 (both sides) joined in. Thats about 60% of the total FSO numbers in one spot at one time!!
From all of the comments above it seems like everyone had a great time. I know I did. And thats all that matters. <S>
Viper 61
AXIS CIC
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I had 9 confirmed kills :lol and only got credit for 1. :cry
Actually I had only one kill and got credit for it in the logs. :)
Stuff happens. All in all, it was a damn fine operation. :salute
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Don't sweat it.
Most had fun. Make sense of what you can with the logs and move on. :aok
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GD and I have looked over the information that we have. No matter how you slice it the Japanese won. The missing information would only determine by how much.
Grate event, WTG GD! A real blast
:aok
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INDEED!
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Yes as far as I can tell I am inclined to say the Japanese won. However, I think it was again very close and not by a large amount.
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So these are the options for the Allies. Throw out frame 3, use only frame 1 and 2's scores and you got beat. Or add in frame 3's damage once the log started and you got spanked. :P Personally it was a lot of fun all 3 frames and the log deal could happen a lot more than it has so i don't see it as a big deal. We could have all the CIC's and flight leaders from axis/allies go to the the DA, last man standing claims victory for his side in frame 3. :rofl
AKsleepy
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Need film of the first dogfight between the Arabian Knights- KI-61's and the P40's at A48 if anyone filmed it, I (as usual ) forgot to turn my gun cam on :frown:
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We 38's ran into the 61's in that fight too. I have it on film. I have the whole event on film. Maybe I can break it up into the major fights and post it up.
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The Haze salutes all those involved with the FSO process. Good job Viper on Frame 3. We njoyed ourselves immensely. <S> Ghostsdancer as well. A fine event. Thanks
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As far as I could see (but that wasn't to darn far in those conditions, breaking new ground again WTG ) the Axis whooped up on us pretty well in the A52 area. IMHO on that front I would give the Axis the win but they had to earn it :)
I wish we had taken the "other" avenue in this event & tried to build up the IJN side to match the Allied air power at hand to fit the AH plane set but it wasn't to be... next time?
That FSO set milestones that I wish every Admin CM can beat from here on out. The numbers (players) rocked, the battles played out well, & even if you lost I felt a feeling you were darn glad to be part of every frame.
Well planned & well played everyone!
MGD
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Well I finally reconstructed the amount of people flying. The allies had 192 pilots and the Axis had 245.
I think I might be able to put to rest the myth that the Japanese side always has a poorer turnout than the Allied side because people don't like the Japanese plane set.
Turnouts are based on the max committment levels (not counting +2) for coming up with percentages. The max for allies is 208 and the max for Japanese is 250.
Frame 1
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212 = American (102% turnout)
202 = Japanese (81% turnout)
Frame 2
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199 = American (96% turnout)
229 = Japanese (92% turnout)
Frame 3
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192 = American (92% turnout)
245 = Japanese (98% turnout)
The American turnout stayed pretty consistent through the three frames with only 20 pilot spread / difference from frame 1 to frame 3. If anything you can say the american numbers went down.
The Japanese turnout went the other way it went up from frame 1 to frame 3 significantly. They gained 43 pilots by frame 3.
So in the future instead of having a 45% / 55% split to make up for an expected lower Japanese turnout and other factors, I will probably modify it a bit.
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All your kilz r belong to noone............... :uhoh
And I don't care :rock
Thanks guys. I had a blast. Great stuff. FSO is the best. It's the only time that I play that the General knows she is not allowed to bother me AT ALL, while I am playing airplane. Even if the house is on fire (as long as it's not going to affect my internet connection) there are to be no interruptions. :aok
I hope the staff cadre had as much fun creating & executing it as I did flying in it.
:salute
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So do we have a guess on the final score yet, or is that part still being reconstructed?
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Axis = Won
Allieds = Lost (does it matter how badly?)
Pardon my sarcasm, I am going to get a root canal today.
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The score at best would be very fuzzy.
I can now figure out how many pilots we started with at T+0 and how were still in the arena at T+43 and flying. Although some possible error there since have to determine who is still flying versus possibly gunning.
Now as for the people gone at T+43 I don't know who exactly just that x of this squad is not present and y of the same squad still is. So all I really know is they are gone .. which could be killed, ditched, crashed, landing back at the base and deplaned do to battle damage, or dumped.
I can look at the battle plans of each CiC to figure out what squad was flying what but that number of pilots gone at the T+43 mark is the issue. At best it would be fuzzy math to count everyone gone as a loss.
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You have already put in more time than I think an Admin CM should spend on his event. Its not like you guys get paid for this.
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Just read this thread......
I also feel that its no sweat....
I enjoyed it as usual and I know most others did as well. As for the scoring lets call it a draw.
I personally think the CM's and Designers did a fantastic job as usual and this one instance where the logs got screwed is in no way something to dwell on.
I cant wait for the next FSO.
<S> all involved.