Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Thing on March 31, 2008, 01:58:12 PM
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Hello everyone!
I've recently developed a Corsair addiction and was looking for someone to help me fine tune flying this great bird.
Mon Tues and Wed usually work best for me, but I can be flexible.
Thanks
:salute Thing
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Hello Thing,
I am currently at work...but when I get home I'll PM you and see if we can set something up Tues or Wednesday evening say 7pm EST?
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Sounds great
Thank You
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:salute Thing!
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:salute Scotch
Would like to pick your brain also :aok
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Are you in a squad yet...? :aok
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Yes
Texas Air Cav :rock
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if it wouldnt be a problem, i would be interested in joining ya'll
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if it wouldnt be a problem, i would be interested in joining ya'll
same, even though i could learn it myself, like all the other planes if fly......
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same, even though i could learn it myself, like all the other planes if fly......
heh, i usually learn em myself too, but it never hurts to get tips from those that fly them more often than me. its one of the two plalnes i'm best in, but i still get kicked an awful lot.
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hell, I would mind join in and learning some new stuff.
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if SHawk comes around we Hog noobs r DOOMED! :D
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Thats for sure!! :cry
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Thing & TC!
Arlo said that he was scheduling some training for VF-17. Any chance I can tag along here with Thing?
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The more the merrier.
I need help utilizing the strengths of the Corsair. Use of flaps, rudder, and finding a good convergence setting for my guns. I'm usually at 300 or 350. Gonna try 400 my next few sorties. Any input is greatly appreciated :aok
:salute Thing
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1st my apologys to Arlo, Thing and Vf-17's squad.....I had planned on getting Arlo's group together this past Weds Night, but unfortunately Weds turned into one of the hottest days yet this year here in Florida, and my business was swamped with telephone calls for no cooling or broken equipment issues...it has not let up yet this week ( I am service/Install manager at my HVAC company )..I am going to have to figure out a weekend time to follow thru with my commitment in helping Arlo's squad and helping Thing and the rest of you...
it really sucks when I make a commitment to help you guys and my real-life rises up and smacks me down like this...I had called Murdr to relay the news Weds evening, but Murdr himself , when he called me back was still at work trying to get home.from that point on I said the heck with it and found a 5 o'clock some where place of business....
will be PMing those who I hav already contacted to work out a weekend schedule with you.......again my sincere apologys for the let down for Weds Night..
:salute
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I'm sure they understand, TQ. Everyone's got commitments.
Thing, I usually have convergence at 325 - 375 max. The 50's are great but they're only really buzz-saws at short-medium range. 400 I think is a little too far. Flap use is crucial but don't be dropping them all the time at at 50 degrees. You'll lose too much speed and E that way.
Most of the time, I want to be traveling above 200 - 350 mph in MA or duel conditions. When you do drop them flaps, make sure it's usually not more than 40 or even 30 degrees. You're not going to be accelerating very quickly if you lose speed.
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Thanks for the tips Pappy. I find the more I fly the Corsair the easier its gets. Just need to keep practicing.
Tequila I understand no need to apologise. Just pm me when you have free time and we can set something up.
:salute Pappy and Tequila
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Know the situation. In large fights I prefer staying fast, even above max deployment speed for flaps. Stay above the fight and work your way from the top down. The Corsair IMO is flown best as BnZ, or at least a high-speed angles fighter, in medium to large furballs. Use your superior E-retention and high-speed maneuverability--especially in the roll axis--to gain extension and angles, respectively. If you're using more than two notches of flaps you've shed too much airspeed for a large fight and should consider egress to regain altitude and airspeed.
In 1v1 or small fights (no more than 3-4 aircraft on each side) the Corsair tolerates getting slow much more readily but I'd recommend using caution, as while the Corsair's turn RADIUS with flaps deployed will get you inside many opponents, most opponents still have the superior turn RATE and if you don't get them quickly they'll be around on you before you can get a shot.
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Not to mention the F4U's average acceleration and climb rate just make this all the more worse. This is what makes the good-accelerating P-38 underestimated and very potent, that it doesn't seem to lose speed (or gain a torque effect) at very low speeds, so more often than not, P-38's are out-turning planes at very VERY low speeds.
If you have the extra speed even planes that would normally out-climb you probably wouldn't catch you in a low angle zoom climb.
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I forgot to ask about convergence with the C Hog
I'm usually at 300 with the 20mm
:salute
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Find manetmp(blukitty, or whatever name he goes by now a day) he/she/it?(no offense, just confusion) is one of the best Corsair/Hellkitty pilots I've fought. TC is one of the best as well.
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I like to drag kills away from the furball like I'm running then turn the fight around on them. Then climb back up and find another.
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ok i have been having a problem with the corsair. when someone is higher than me and starts diving normally i dive too and then pull a high g manuever to get out of their range and climb back up. when im back up i notice my adversary climbed back up too but higher than i did. is there any way i can get on him or am i just gonna go around in circles? I have mad my oponent bleed his energy and got on him but is it the same in the senario i have just described?
Also some times i dive and when i am 400m behind a target and they are aware of me they turn. thats ok but when i look back i see an enemy aircraft trying to climb wth me but i have more e. however for some reason he is still able to hit me. i can never dive and climb without having a spit, yak, typh, or la-7 climbing with me and its not as if they dove with me, because they were on the deck the whole time.
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Not the expert but for the most part when you have a guy higher that wants to stay there not much more you can do than manuever away and try and slowly climb when you can. I always seem to get one that gets tired of watching my dive away and will chase thats when i try and make him overshoot and get a quick shot.
as for someone that climbs up behind you sounds like those guys had more E than you thought. try and pay attention to how fast you close on him. If you go from D1 to D200 in a couple seconds he doesn't have much e and you can climb with out having to worry most the time. if it takes you awhile to catch up from 400 out their moving fast also. At that close of a range I'll turn fight with them.
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Thing,
my convergence is 350 absolute maximum on the C-hog, though more often than not I do keep it at 300 simply because my aim sucks and I prefer to get close.
Void,
if you end up diving then you are just helping the enemy if he/she dives on you. Since the e/a is diving, it is gaining speed. If you dive you gain speed as well but the e/a has more speed and can thus, usually, zoom to a higher altitude than you even if you zoom. Essentially, the e/a had more energy to begin with so will end up with more energy if you both do the same maneuver. The best thing to do is pull a low-G, low E-cost maneuver when the e/a comes barreling down on top of you. The maneuver could be a high or low yo-yo or anything that present the e/a with a crappy shot solution. I.e., an HO pass or exposing your side while pushing negative G are just a few examples on how to avoid getting shot at. Imagine trying to fire at a plane flying past your windscreen pushing G's while you're flying at + 360 mph. Kinda hard to hit, ain't it?
As the enemy climbs back up, gain some altitude by zooming (of you have 300 or more mph) or steady climbing; maybe just over 2000 fpm. Then when the enemy comes back to bounce you, try to gain more speed in a level acceleration and conserve it for the next attack; preferably +250 mph. A good enemy will never lose the altitude advantage but a good defender will never get hit.
If they were able to catch up to you in the first place, chances are they either dove to get behind you (Spits do that since they're not particularly fast w/ the exception of the SpitXIV) or they found you while they were fast. After all, Tiffies and Lala's are fast machines. It's hard to outzoom a Typhoon but you CAN out turn one at just over 250 mph and dropping your flaps 10 degrees at 250 mph will almost ensure this. The best thing to do is be more aware of your surroundings so the e/a never gets behind you in the first place. So watch out when you dive and practise scanning EVERY area over and over again.
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Also some times i dive and when i am 400m behind a target and they are aware of me they turn. thats ok but when i look back i see an enemy aircraft trying to climb wth me but i have more e. however for some reason he is still able to hit me. i can never dive and climb without having a spit, yak, typh, or la-7 climbing with me and its not as if they dove with me, because they were on the deck the whole time.
Also realize that if you "zoom up" wrong, you can make it easier for a lower E plane to catch you. One example would be pulling up too sharply, bleeding excessive E in the process. This would lower your ability to zoom, and make it APPEAR that he has "super" zoom capabilities.
Another one that I see a lot is for the zoomong plane to zoom in a manner that allows his slower pursuer to "cut the corner" and catch him on the zoom. The slower plane likely doesn't have enough E to catch the faster plane, but is allowed to fly a shorter path to make up for it. In this example, the faster plane may be zooming straight up, while the pursuer is climbing at a shallower angle (maybe only 45-70 degrees, instead of 90...)
MtnMan
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so for a zoom climb is hitting auto speed a bad idea or could u just pull it up about 30-50 deg and hit auto angle?
and if you are trying for a rope do you pull straight up and hammer over or spiral up?
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Spiral climbing in the Hog can be a beautiful thing just because of her E-retention. With enough starting E, even the -1 Birdcage can hold 3k/min in the spiral practically indefinitely.
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The angle you use to go up in your zoom depends on too many variables for auto-speed to be a good choice, at least IMO. If you are VERY fast, and your low targets can't possibly touch you, I suppose it would be fine then. In that case you're just turning energy into altitude without any immediate "plans".
In a situation where I'm zooming to maintain and improve my position over a specific opponent, I think any of the "auto" options would be a significant handicap. I'm way too busy looking out of the back of the plane, rolling to fine tune my view or to align myself to reverse back down onto him. I'm also adjusting my climb angle to place me in the best position to reverse. A lot of that depends on our relative speeds, and what he's doing to make things easier or more difficult for me. Do I need a bit more height, or a few more seconds? If so I'll stretch it upward a bit more. Do I need to reverse quickly in order to keep pressure on him, or take my shot before he can recover from his stall? If so I'll reverse without ever reaching the zoom height I was capable of.
The zoom angle and height need to be adjusted for every situation you find yourself in. I generally PREFER to go as vertical as possible, to get every bit of height I can get, but that isn't always possible or preferable. Too steep might get you killed in a particular fight, or too shallow may have the same result. It's really going to depend on your immediate needs, based on your opponents position, E-state, and "ability".
Reversing at the top varies for the same reasons. Generally, I don't hammerhead at all. My normal reverse will go into effect about 125mph, by simply applying more up elevator and two notches of flaps. Think of an upside down raindrop, and that's my normal flightpath as seen from the side. The thickness or thinness of the drop will vary depending on my speed and "plans". Against planes like the Hurri's, I'll "loiter" a bit while inverted, since they seem to like coming straight up at me in an HO type attempt when they see me top out. This would make for a pretty fat raindrop. By loitering I give them a chance to come up and stall as I come down to hit them. I generally only "loiter" 2-4 seconds. This lets me shoot them as their nose drops, denying them a gun solution. Again, it varies with each fight. My goal in a roping type manuever is to reverse onto them while they are about D800, very slow, and unable to catch me. I want my reversal timed so that as they stall and flop, I'm on my way down, picking up some speed through D600, finalizing my aim at D400, and shooting them in the cockpit at D200. I don't wait for them too stall before I reverse, because I want to be shooting them at that point. If I wait for them to stall, by the time I've reversed they have as well, and now it's a tailchase. Important note- I pull my flaps back up BEFORE I'm fully nose-down on a reversal. They're only deployed while they help me get over the top, and are retracted before they start hurting my dive. I NEVER let them auto-retract. Flaps are never "neutral" in effect IMO. They're either helping you or hindering you. If they're beneficial, leave 'em down, if not, then bring them up. Don't let them suck your E advantage away by dropping them and ignoring them...
A spiral at the top? Yup, quite often. Normally I do that when I need to stay high just a touch longer to put them in the position I described above. I'll also use it if the guy is a bit too close, and shooting at me. If he pulls lead for the shot while I spiral he'll usually stall out so I can pounce on him.
This zooming and diving attack is the same attack I use on bombers, just adjusted a bit for my speed vs theirs, etc... I'lls ee if I can post a few films.
MtnMan
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Be careful what you try that against, any 109 (except the Emil, perhaps) will maul you in that sort of manuever. (in reference to a spiral climb... or most climbing manuevers for that matter. Even the 4-Hog....I caught one in a K4 in a climb, E states equal, 4 Hog had alt on me and I still caught it in a climb. Alt was 18k+)
For my .50 cal convergence I set the guns to 325/350/375 inside/outside.
I used to have them all at 400 but I found that this varied convergence had a bit more of a buzz saw effect than the all-in-one-spot set up.
I suck with .50 cal and I find that this helps. I'm no good at hosing a target down, I learnt this game in the 109 and the 190 so I started on a diet of cannon and shorter convergence distances. I'm more dangerous with a single 30mm cannon than I am with 6 .50s. The 8 .50s on the Jug are nice though, that's a hard hitting combo with that same set-up of 325-400 yards.
C-hog.....300 seems to work the best. Any shorter and I struggle hitting targets at 400+ in a convincing manner. Any longer than 300 and I start shooting around my targets.
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Alright, here's a film posting "attempt". I've never posted one before, so hopefully this works... This one was one I quickly found using zoom climbs against Lancs. If it works ok I'll find some fighter examples to post as well.
Watch it using my recorded views, to see how I'm always watching and adjusting for my opponents position. In this case I actually had too much altitude and speed, so adjusted by keeping my zooms shallower. This also puts me far out in front of the bombers, denying any shots as I climb, and allowing me to set up for another dive. Also notice how I avoid sitting behind the bombers, and only give them a fairly brief shot as I pass them.
Watch it using "trails" to see the flightpath easier, especially from the "fixed" position (not using my recorded views for that...)
All my convergences are set at 275. I set all wing mounted .50's that way. I have my 20mms set for 400 in the Chog. 275 works fine for bombers as you can see, and works even better for fighters.
http://rapidshare.de/files/39087479/Lancs_0000.ahf.html
MtnMan
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Be careful what you try that against, any 109 (except the Emil, perhaps) will maul you in that sort of manuever. (in reference to a spiral climb... or most climbing manuevers for that matter. Even the 4-Hog....I caught one in a K4 in a climb, E states equal, 4 Hog had alt on me and I still caught it in a climb. Alt was 18k+)
The zoom / spiral works fine for me vs ANY plane type. It all depends on the situation. We're all using the same manuevers, they're just adjusted depending on the various plane types, speeds, alt, skill levels, etc, etc, etc...
For example, I use the same manuevers to kill Zekes in my F4U as I do to kill F4U's, P51's, B17's, M3's or whatever. I simply ADJUST speed, size, angle, etc, of the manuevers to fit the situation.
I often get asked to help people with the F4U's. There are no "kung-foo super-secret F4U manuevers". You'll generally use the same ACM's to kill a 109 as you do anything else, you just need to read the situation and adjust accordingly.
MtnMan
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well said on that last post mtnman :aok
however that manuever pulled on zekes that you briefly talked about interests me for i see no way of manuevering with a zeke except pulling an immelman when past an h2h encounter. i heard trickery works but then again........how? Turning with a zeke is really hard(depending on the pilot too of course) and after the zeke is on ones tail the options are limited (either a. force an overshoot, or b. outrun if possible). i know you said there are no kung fu tricks with te hog but i would like you to ellaborate on using manuevers on zekes.
Void56
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Listen to MtnMan, he flies a mean Corsair!
As for convergence of .50 cals....mine are all set at 275...in ALL .50 cal aircraft.
I tend to fly to my opponets' six...and 50's are buzzsaws close in.
I use the same convergence for Bombers, no matter their altitude...and I kill lots of Bombers.
I'm not known for killing fighters.
<S>
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The Zeke, Hurri, and N1K are planes I lump into the "get 'em too fast for their own good and then quickly get behind them while I can turn better than they can" category, as opposed to planes like the 109's, P51's, 190's which I lump into the "get 'em slow enough so they can't get away from me" category.
I don't dare try to get too low and slow with the Zekes, Hurris, or N1K's. That doesn't mean I woun't get low or slow with them, I just want to be able to get my speed back if I need it. Very slow is fine, as long as I can kill them right away, or else make an option to extend. Trying to do sustained slow turns with them doesn't work.
I lump ALL planes into the category of "if it's really slow, or really fast, it can't do too much". So anytime I can I will let a guy get really slow, and then capitolize on that. If he's really fast I may dodge easily, but then I may need to get creative after that to end up getting him slow.
As far as adjusting the fight to the better turners, I fly a more "loose" fight with them. Where against a P51 or 109 I will fly a "tight" fight, trying to force them to commit to turning, I don't do that with Zekes, N1K's etc, unless I know I can kill him in the first few seconds. I still do rolls, immelmanns, yo-yo's, etc, but I fly them looser to try to conserve my E, and make them fly fast trying to stay with me. The best way to keep them fast is to put them on your tail, and then let them barely keep up. When he's too fast to manuever well, I do a reversal which puts me at a decent speed to turn, but hopefully with him too fast to turn as well. I need to kill him quick, or start over.
Here's a clip with me against a high fast N1K. The fight that develops could be against a Zeke, Hurri, or Spit, with slight adjustments. It starts by letting him get behind me, and I appear to run. So he chases, and thinks he's barely gonna catch me but he's gotta go fast so i don't get away... Note that at any point in this fight I could simply dive slightly and run away, he wouldn't be able to keep up. He knows that, so helps me by staying fast...
So, as he gets close enough (I'm letting him...) I pull a reversal, and get behind him. I missed my shot on the reversal (barrel roll) :cry but I'm behind him now. I miss him again as he realizes things aren't looking so hot anymore, and he then dives out. Now- I'm behind him, he's in a slower plane-type than me (can't get away), and he dives so as to be too fast to turn so hot (and gives up all his altitude)- what could be better?
I chase him down and realizing he can't outrun me, tries for a barrel roll defense or a rolling scissors. Had I tried to follow him through that I probably would have ended up overshooting, or slow with him on the deck. So, I simply keep me speed and zoom, without presenting him with a shot. This puts me in a very advantaged position over him. He can't get me since he's lower and slower. My instinct is to roll back onto him and kill him. He knows this, and pulls up at me. (1:55) If I dive at him, he can HO me, if I dodge (or he misses) I'll be below him, scrubbing E hard to pull out. (Read that- I'm lower, scrubbing E, while he's above me, a recipe for disaster, IMO)(Remember the idea of being low and slow with a better turning, better accelerating plane armed with cannons is usually bad). So what do I do when I roll over to dive in and see him coming up??? I hesitate! And even go up a bit! This sets me up to drop on him as he tops out, and gives me another kill shot (which I also flub on :rolleyes:) After that I keep the pressure on him and he pulls up giving me the kill. Had I missed that one I might have been close to starting the whole thing over.
So, IMO the key points to that fight were- getting him too fast for his own good (while not doing the same to myself), reversing while I have the turn advantage, not getting greedy and trying to rush the kill when he evades low, hesitating when I recognize the HO possiblity (patience is a virtue), taking the shots I was offered (without forcing them and scrubbing too much E) all the while keeping enough speed and altitude to reset the fight (or get away) if I needed to. You could also add that although I started with an altitude and angles disadvantage, I was able to reverse that, and didn't allow him any decent shot opportunities. Apart from his opening shots I was never in any real danger. The fight against a Zeke or Hurri is similar, but I have no film (I can try for some tonight). I consider the N1K to be the most dangerous of the three, since the other two are so slow as to only be a threat if I let them, or if I'm not paying attention...
To his credit (IMO) my opponent tried to bring the fight back up when he realized I wasn't going to drop onto the deck and turn with him. He kept his speed, and therefore some options of his own. He never gave in, even when he was down on the deck in a bad position. I've had a lot of decent fights with him in the past as well.
http://www.mediafire.com/?zlzzgbfb4di (http://www.mediafire.com/?zlzzgbfb4di)
Hopefully this link works- I can't get the buff one to work. Anyone have any luck? Let me know, I may try the Lanc film with this server instead...
MtnMan
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Here's another link to the first film, it may work better-
http://www.mediafire.com/?lhzcchded2c (http://www.mediafire.com/?lhzcchded2c)
MtnMan
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does BluKitty have a BBS name? if so what is it? might PM her/him/it (also confused because of name) and see if him/her/it can help me learn it
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The zoom / spiral works fine for me vs ANY plane type. It all depends on the situation. We're all using the same manuevers, they're just adjusted depending on the various plane types, speeds, alt, skill levels, etc, etc, etc...
For example, I use the same manuevers to kill Zekes in my F4U as I do to kill F4U's, P51's, B17's, M3's or whatever. I simply ADJUST speed, size, angle, etc, of the manuevers to fit the situation.
I often get asked to help people with the F4U's. There are no "kung-foo super-secret F4U manuevers". You'll generally use the same ACM's to kill a 109 as you do anything else, you just need to read the situation and adjust accordingly.
MtnMan
Of course, mate, the mental image I got was a F4u v a 109 duel that had gone through a few turns and produced no result so the Corsair tries to spiral climb the 109. Given equal or even similar e-states the 109 will run pretty much everything down in a climb.
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good tips mtman i have come to like the f4u1a its a nice plane very versitile. good film too
media fire is a pretty good one ot use thats the one i use
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does BluKitty have a BBS name? if so what is it? might PM her/him/it (also confused because of name) and see if him/her/it can help me learn it
I actually am not sure if blukitty still plays, but maybe you can get blu to post some films.
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I actually am not sure if blukitty still plays, but maybe you can get blu to post some films.
does blu have a BBS account i could PM him on?
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mtnman just using the word "raindrop" made a nice visual for me and was able to reverse Spit 16's twice tonight, thanks for the advice.
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just so you guys know blukitty does still play. encountered him in the MA and my friend took him down and saw the name on the radio. you know when it says "you shot down ...".
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For the record blukitty is a female
She is a former squadmate and a great jug and corsair pilot :aok
:rock Thing
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For the record blukitty is a female
She is a former squadmate and a great jug and corsair pilot :aok
:rock Thing
I will always have my doubts though... if it really isn't manetmp then wow. I've flown against and with them both they have exactly the same style and everything. I have heard her speak on vox a few times and it sounded extremely robotic and fake, but that's just me... Good thing to know she still plays though.
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mtnman very nice write up. :aok
When are you normaly in the TA?
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I have a bunch of corsair films for showing how to use flaps & airbrakes effectively.
mapmusic@mountaincable.net
<S>
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Thing,
I know your a jug pilot, because everytime I see you, your usualy in the D-25. The F4U is a bit diffrent to the jug. The jug is heavy the F4U is lighter, better turn, climb, and speed. they handle just about the same though and have the same guns.
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For the record blukitty is a female
She is a former squadmate and a great jug and corsair pilot :aok
:rock Thing
He said Blukitty and Jug. hehehehehe...sorry, couldn't help myself, just heard someone's 'my liver' check 6 file. (Appologies Blukitty)
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I guess I put my foot in my mouth on that one Halo :D
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mtnman very nice write up. :aok
When are you normaly in the TA?
Due to my extremely busy real-life schedule, I am not able to have "normal hours" that I'm in the TA. I spend several hours per week in there, but at random times. I know that's far from helpful information for you.
I try to compensate for that by being willing to jump into the TA when people ask. If you see me in the MA (do a .f mtnman search) just ask, and I'll quit what I'm doing and head to the TA. I don't mind at all, I enjoy helping people as much as shooting them down, hehe! All I do is fighter hops, no missions or anything, so it's not like I'm ever "too busy" to head to the TA.
Another option is to PM me, and we can try to figure out a specific time that will work for both of us.
MtnMan
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mtnman I'm in the same boat as far as my RL schedule goes.
I will keep an eye out for you in both the TA and MA.
I'm no noob when it comes to the hog, and have done some training with TC a while back, which I found very helpful.
I just feel like I could get more out of the corsair and feel that the more people I fly with/against in it the better I can get, but I do not want to take up valuable training time if there is someone more in need of it than I am.
Thnx
SIK1
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mtnman I'm in the same boat as far as my RL schedule goes.
I will keep an eye out for you in both the TA and MA.
I'm no noob when it comes to the hog, and have done some training with TC a while back, which I found very helpful.
I just feel like I could get more out of the corsair and feel that the more people I fly with/against in it the better I can get, but I do not want to take up valuable training time if there is someone more in need of it than I am.
Thnx
SIK1
Take up valuable training time?! Don't feel that way! We're an equal opportunity training team! You're entitled to all you want, simply because you ask. Just be gentle with me, you may end up teaching me something! That's good too, since I try to pass anything I can along to those who ask...
I'll watch for you too.
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refreshing myself on these topics