Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Widewing on April 03, 2008, 05:22:18 PM

Title: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: Widewing on April 03, 2008, 05:22:18 PM
Thank you very much for addressing this. I'm sure that I'm speaking for everyone when I say that HTC once again shows why they are the best in the business.

 :salute

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: angelsandair on April 03, 2008, 05:24:45 PM
I love AHII, I would be crushed if it got taken away from me. I would have to play FIGHTER ACE 3 noooooooooooo!!!!11!111!

P.S. I'm a 39 dweeb
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: Bronk on April 03, 2008, 07:02:41 PM
WW did you have a chance to compare the FM-2 flaps ?
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: Squire on April 03, 2008, 07:09:08 PM
...and they have increased the 37mm lethality. BOOM. ;)
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on April 03, 2008, 07:52:00 PM
HTC staff i love you.  :salute

D-2 D-2 D-2!!

Make the 37mm's blow up after 3 seconds (like they did in Real life), do this and ill highly consider having a child in your name.
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: E25280 on April 03, 2008, 07:52:41 PM
I must admit, of all the updates, the one that I am looking forward to the most is
Quote
Bases no longer continue to flash when an attacking player is disconnected
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: Bronk on April 03, 2008, 08:22:44 PM
HTC staff i love you.  :salute

D-2 D-2 D-2!!

Make the 37mm's blow up after 3 seconds (like they did in Real life), do this and ill highly consider having a child in your name.
:huh :huh :huh

Source?
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: Widewing on April 03, 2008, 08:34:03 PM
WW did you have a chance to compare the FM-2 flaps ?

I did... Didn't seem to have excessive drag with full flaps. It did require a slightly greater dive angle than the P-40, and roughly the same as the P-39Q. However, the FM-2 has a much greater flat plate area, so that would be expected in a shallow power-off dive.

Here's the comparison data.

Drag Coefficient:

P-39: .0217
P-40: .0242
FM-2: .0253

Let's look at wing area:

P-39: 213.2 sq/ft
P-49: 236.0 sq/ft
FM-2: 260.0 sq/ft

Let's look at flat plate area:

P-39: 4.63 sq/ft
P-40: 5.71 sq/ft
FM-2: 6.58 sq/ft


Let's examine the flaps of the two fighters. I'll provide flap area and full down angle. All use simple split flaps.

P-39: 26.2 sq/ft @ 43 degrees
P-40: 33.1 sq/ft @ 45 degrees
FM-2: 27.7 sq/ft @ 43 degrees

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 03, 2008, 08:45:42 PM

Make the 37mm's blow up after 3 seconds (like they did in Real life), do this and ill highly consider having a child in your name.

The Oldsmobile cannon might have been a POS because it frequently jammed but I don't think blowing up was a common problem, if one at all.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: Octavius on April 03, 2008, 09:28:20 PM
I had an oldsmobile that once blew up, but it wasn't a cannon.
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on April 03, 2008, 10:40:48 PM
LOL!  :rofl


No guys, you mis understand me.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,232233.0.html

That has alot of the info, but the link there also shows where i got the data so.
Not the gun blowing up, the round has a fuse when the tracer reaches the end of the burnout phase, it shoots a object into a second detonation cap, and the round blows up, not..the gun.  :aok


Sorry for the confusion & highjack, as i too am woundering what these flap changes are.
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: Brooke on April 04, 2008, 04:06:58 AM
The P-39 flaps will be adjusted in the next patch?

Also, what caused them to notice that the flaps needed to be tweaked (i.e., what did they look at to determine that)?
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: moot on April 04, 2008, 04:31:17 AM
Maybe
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,231540.0.html
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on April 04, 2008, 04:33:45 AM
Thank moot, exactly what i needed.  :salute

"lameman's'term"


"The 39's flaps create to much drag and not enough lift" got'cha.
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: Widewing on April 04, 2008, 08:44:37 AM
The P-39 flaps will be adjusted in the next patch?

Also, what caused them to notice that the flaps needed to be tweaked (i.e., what did they look at to determine that)?

Extensive flight testing revealed that the flaps generated little lift and a tremendous amount of drag. When compared to the very similar flaps of the P-40 (using the same basic powerplant), the drag properties were obviously much greater in the P-39 as well as significantly less lift.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: Brooke on April 04, 2008, 02:52:53 PM
Sounds good.

So is the change to be in the next patch?
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: Krusty on April 04, 2008, 02:57:54 PM
Sounds good.

So is the change to be in the next patch?

See here:
Patch news (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,232236.0.html)
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: Brooke on April 04, 2008, 03:15:19 PM
Thanks, Krusty.
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: Widewing on April 08, 2008, 06:40:57 PM
Well, I did a quick test of the P-39Q offline and found that Pyro's adjustments result in a vast improvement. Flap drag is now roughly the same as the P-40E, perhaps even a bit less.

A quick full flap turn radius test got me 466 feet vs 526 feet prior to the update. Another big improvement is in turn rate, which jumped from 17.2 dps to 18.2 dps. This puts in company with the La-5FN and 109G-2 in terms of radius, but inferior in turn rate.. That's significant in that in a prolonged circle fight, it will lose ground and equality after a few 360 turns.

Nonetheless, flaps use is at least now a real option.

Nice job Pyro, very much appreciated.  :salute

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on April 08, 2008, 11:11:46 PM
Big time!  :salute :salute
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: Pyro on April 09, 2008, 11:37:40 AM
Widewing,

Thanks for the testing.  I really need to make a comprehensive revision through all the planes to flush out some inconsistencies.
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: Yeager on April 11, 2008, 12:25:40 PM
check the A-20 Pyro....the airplane behaves as if it has no weight. 
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: Brooke on April 11, 2008, 08:14:21 PM
check the A-20 Pyro....the airplane behaves as if it has no weight. 

That's not how it feels to me.
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: Yeager on April 12, 2008, 10:44:50 AM
just out of curiosity, Widewing......have you done any testing of the A20 with emphasis on its vertical performance and freakishly nimble controls?

Way too many times Ive  encountered these things at altitude and had to scrap for my virtual life.....I prefer to fight spitfires
 and FM2s over this thing.  It hangs on a prop like it was Ki43 VSTOL or something.  Maybe its just me but I have heard other well established
veteran players make similar comments.
Title: Re: Pyro: Adjusted lift and drag attributes of the P-39 flaps
Post by: SgtPappy on April 12, 2008, 01:16:13 PM
The A-20 is still modeled as it was in Aces High I, though right?

The only thing that changed for the A-20 in this game was the introduction of the new airflow code, so the plane still needs to be put back into AH2 standards.

I'm hoping the Corsair's flaps can be checked... I find it annoying to fly a plane if it happens to be turning incorrectly. Something like that needs to be fixed whether for the better or for the worse. I know there are tonnes of threads but I'd appreciate it being checked just to know for sure.