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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Dragdad on April 15, 2008, 04:48:12 PM

Title: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Dragdad on April 15, 2008, 04:48:12 PM
I realize I'm probably irritating more than my share of purists, but I would sure love to have external views in fighters in the main. I apologize if anyone is offended by this suggestion, but I pay my 15 bucks too, and would love to play in the main arenas with this view. I came up in 8-player, and just have more fun with externals. I'm in the DA mostly, but I like the main as well.

Anyways, not trying to ruffle feathers, but I figured I'd voice my opinion.

DD
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Denholm on April 15, 2008, 04:53:27 PM
Probably won't happen, more people prefer the "internal only" setting giving everyone a challenge. I also find it easier to hit targets using internal views as opposed to external views.
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: waystin2 on April 15, 2008, 04:56:48 PM
Sorry.  I do not think this is a good idea.  The loss of realism and even playing field would be a terrible change to the MA's.
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: ShrkBite on April 15, 2008, 09:32:22 PM
They arent gonna put F3 view for the MA. its will not be Fair to other pilots. Like you couldnt sneak up on a Spit (example) from the low 6oclock (which means he cant be seen if the spit is level) and kill him without him even seeing him. If the Same thing happened in F3 view, the spit easily could see me coming and boom, there goes a shot. <S>
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Kurt on April 15, 2008, 10:08:10 PM
I'm guessing a lot of pilots in WWII would have like to have been about 400 yards behind their plane and invisible.

Don't hold your breath for this one.
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: whiteman on April 16, 2008, 04:03:41 AM
It took me a few months to get use to it since i came from playing console games, but i'll never play another with external views.
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: DaddyAck on April 16, 2008, 04:37:47 AM
heck, I wish even bombers were restricted to in cockpit view.  To use F3 in the MA in all planes, heck you might as well be playing a console game.

 :furious

Really bad idea.

(http://www.irishcalvinist.com/files/2006/07/jedi-mind-trick.jpg)

This is not the wish youre looking for
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: SD67 on April 16, 2008, 06:18:13 AM
I disagree with F3 in fighters. For bombers F3 makes sense because it simulates the eyes of the gunners, not that I use F3 in bombers anyway, but I can see why it is included.
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Noir on April 16, 2008, 09:49:03 AM
I disagree with F3 in fighters. For bombers F3 makes sense because it simulates the eyes of the gunners, not that I use F3 in bombers anyway, but I can see why it is included.


You know how to fly bombers ? Thats new  :D
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Hitman20 on April 16, 2008, 11:12:04 AM
You can use the IL2 f3 view and try it as a attack fighter :rock
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Dragdad on April 16, 2008, 03:20:48 PM
Just a thought. I like externals, primarily because I dont live and breathe this game like most of you do. I'll just stay in the DA and toggle between int. and ext. to my little hearts content.

It's just a game to me, and I know thats blasphemy to most AH'ers. At least y'all didnt laugh and make fun of me for posting a message like most posters.

Thanks for the thoughts.
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: SD67 on April 16, 2008, 03:57:55 PM

You know how to fly bombers ? Thats new  :D
Hey!
I fly a P38 every now and then :devil
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: ShrkBite on April 16, 2008, 08:02:42 PM
heck, I wish even bombers were restricted to in cockpit view.  To use F3 in the MA in all planes, heck you might as well be playing a console game.

 :furious

Really bad idea.

(http://www.irishcalvinist.com/files/2006/07/jedi-mind-trick.jpg)

This is not the wish youre looking for

LOL!!!!!!
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: angelsandair on April 16, 2008, 08:21:22 PM
I realize I'm probably irritating more than my share of purists, but I would sure love to have external views in fighters in the main. I apologize if anyone is offended by this suggestion, but I pay my 15 bucks too, and would love to play in the main arenas with this view. I came up in 8-player, and just have more fun with externals. I'm in the DA mostly, but I like the main as well.

Anyways, not trying to ruffle feathers, but I figured I'd voice my opinion.

DD

only excuse for that could be the F4U. Nothing else.  :D
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: SectorNine50 on April 16, 2008, 08:26:40 PM
Just a thought. I like externals, primarily because I dont live and breathe this game like most of you do. I'll just stay in the DA and toggle between int. and ext. to my little hearts content.

It's just a game to me, and I know thats blasphemy to most AH'ers. At least y'all didnt laugh and make fun of me for posting a message like most posters.

Thanks for the thoughts.
See, the problem with that is that this is a WWII Combat Flight Simulator.  It's supposed to be as realistic as humanly possible in a video game.  I don't live and breathe this game, but when I play, I play because it's realistic.  I could go play a game like Blazing Angels on my PS3, but I'm not a fan of the gamey feel of it.  Sure it's fun sometimes, but I'm much too into aviation to deal with it all the time. ;)
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: moot on April 16, 2008, 08:54:24 PM
Let's all play poker with our cards facing the wrong way!
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Dragdad on April 24, 2008, 03:56:19 PM
I hardly equate external views to playing poker with cards facing the wrong way. There is no unfair advantage to externals, and that is proven everytime I get shot down in the DA by someone using internal views only. No one is advocating that everyone be forced to use external view. Actually, I'm advocating that everyone has a choice in the MA, the same as in the DA. As it is, I am forced to use internals in the MA. If you dont like the gamey feel, then dont use F3. I guarantee, as much as you guys play the game, I'm never going to be a shoot-down threat to you, even if I'm using external views.
Anyways, I'm done arguing the point.

Albeit very realistic, it's still a game. (ooooch, I said it again)
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: pengu146 on April 24, 2008, 04:51:06 PM
See, the problem with that is that this is a WWII Combat Flight Simulator.  It's supposed to be as realistic as humanly possible in a video game.  I don't live and breathe this game, but when I play, I play because it's realistic.  I could go play a game like Blazing Angels on my PS3, but I'm not a fan of the gamey feel of it.  Sure it's fun sometimes, but I'm much too into aviation to deal with it all the time. ;)
    Hey if you don't like that ps3 that much i'll take it.
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Cthulhu on April 24, 2008, 05:08:43 PM
The unique appeal of AH is that it is so realistic. Many of us are not just gamers, but history buffs and aviation enthusiasts who want to relive as closely as possible the exploits we could only read about as kids. This may sound corney, being "just" a game, but many of us want the experience to be as realistic as possible. This is what sets AH apart from most other online games. The vast majority of us will never have the money to own one of these rare birds, let alone fly one, and none of us can make the near 70-year trip back in time to experience "real" combat (along with the very "real" consequences" of failure). What we can do however is go online and test our mettle against other people with a similar facination for these old "MuscleCars of the Air". It's the realism that makes AH challenging. That's what makes the game satisfying, that's the reason people stick with it for years, and that's where HiTech got it right.

Personally I feel the term game is a misnomer. Pac Man was a game, Blazing Angels is a game. AH is a simulation.
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: ink on April 24, 2008, 05:26:35 PM
Realistic????   :rofl :rofl

not even close, ya better than console games but still far from realistic, and i really don't care who i offend saying this.

you want realistic try Targetware if you fly only AH bet you cant fly there planes!!(without a lot of practice)
AH is great because its not too realistic but yet has a sense of realism, a very good balance between the two. 
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Cthulhu on April 24, 2008, 05:48:00 PM
I know what you're saying ink, and I can't say I disagree with you. AH has about the extent of realism that could be included and still be fun (I don't wanna have to jack with cowling flaps when I play, do you?). My comments had more to do with the flight characteristics of the planes and the pilot's physical/emotional experience. I agree, AH has struck a very good balance between realism and fun. I believe that as far as modeling all the visceral aspects of air combat, those significant parts that immerse you in the simulation, HT has done a fine job.
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: DaddyAck on April 24, 2008, 06:13:28 PM
I like the complex management in other sims, but then again I fly Bf.109s almost exclusively wich pretty much manages it's own fuel mixture and RPM.  Just leaves me to watch my engine heat, wich is not that hard.  :aok (yeah I fly IL2)

But I agree, this sim is a good mixture of realism and concessions to realism to allow for more simplified control schemes and more attention to the tactics themselves. HTC <S> for a job well done.  :salute
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Ghosth on April 25, 2008, 08:02:58 AM
Dragdad, sir not trying to put you down but there are a couple of things about your statement that I have issues with.

(Snippage  ...........There is no unfair advantage to externals, and that is proven everytime I get shot down in the DA by someone using internal views only. No one is advocating that everyone be forced to use external view. Actually, I'm advocating that everyone has a choice in the MA, the same as in the DA. ................... End snippage)

Just because you can be shot down by internal view use only does not prove the point that there is no advantage to external view.
In fact a strong case can be made showing the opposite to be true.

External views are on in the TA/DA as a teaching aid. There are some maneuvers that it is just hard to get a feel for, without being able to turn smoke on and watching it from the outside.

I'd really suggest that for 1 month you really leave the ext views off. Work on truly mastering the internal views.
Yes its a lot harder, but once you climb that mountain you are up there in the high air with everyone else who has done so.
Truly it changes your perspective.

As for choice in the MA, its a realism thing, most of us would like to see MORE realism in the mains not less.
So you see its a move in the wrong direction. And one that rubs against the grain of a lot of people.
Its not that we are purists, or snobs. Its just that we are very emotionally attached to all this.
And someone wanting to "lower the bar" that we climbed so hard to meet. Well it just seems to devalue the experience.
Spend some time climbing the mountain and I think you'll see what I mean.



Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: colmbo on April 25, 2008, 11:54:34 AM


you want realistic try Targetware if you fly only AH bet you cant fly there planes!!

Now that is some funny stuff.

TW planes are "hard" to fly because the FM is so outlandishly unrealistic at least in regards to the ground handling.  I've flown T-6s, a Mustang, B-17 and B-24 (type rated).  It took me about 5 minutes to realize TW has a long way to go...sad because they do have some good ideas.
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: ink on April 25, 2008, 01:26:17 PM
Now that is some funny stuff.

TW planes are "hard" to fly because the FM is so outlandishly unrealistic at least in regards to the ground handling.  I've flown T-6s, a Mustang, B-17 and B-24 (type rated).  It took me about 5 minutes to realize TW has a long way to go...sad because they do have some good ideas.

i don't know why TW  is so hard to fly when i tried it, i just kept crashing

it sounds like you have flown for real? it this correct? if so you are lucky i would so love to fly a real plane, but yet you will never see me in a commercial jet liner!
 but i would love to go to Cali and do the combat flight school!!!!
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: moot on April 26, 2008, 10:53:56 AM
I know what you're saying ink, and I can't say I disagree with you. AH has about the extent of realism that could be included and still be fun (I don't wanna have to jack with cowling flaps when I play, do you?). My comments had more to do with the flight characteristics of the planes and the pilot's physical/emotional experience. I agree, AH has struck a very good balance between realism and fun. I believe that as far as modeling all the visceral aspects of air combat, those significant parts that immerse you in the simulation, HT has done a fine job.
Yep, "Combat", not "accounting".
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Larry on April 26, 2008, 11:18:34 AM
I hardly equate external views to playing poker with cards facing the wrong way. There is no unfair advantage to externals, and that is proven everytime I get shot down in the DA by someone using internal views only.


Yea youre right....... :rolleyes: :uhoh



(http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/p39v109s.jpg)



Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: moot on April 26, 2008, 11:41:54 AM
That, or anytime there's a shot blinded by the cockpit.
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: dentin on April 26, 2008, 06:57:19 PM
I realize I'm probably irritating more than my share of purists, but I would sure love to have external views in fighters in the main. I apologize if anyone is offended by this suggestion, but I pay my 15 bucks too, and would love to play in the main arenas with this view. I came up in 8-player, and just have more fun with externals. I'm in the DA mostly, but I like the main as well.

Anyways, not trying to ruffle feathers, but I figured I'd voice my opinion.

DD

I agree with ya..all the arenas should offer the option. :)   P.S. I remember you from 8 player..."Ye Olde Shooting GAllery"..`twas great times. :)




 
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: BarryBD on April 27, 2008, 04:49:38 AM
Maybe, there is a halfway in this...

2 LW MA's, why not allow it in 1 of the two?

I never use external...  Not even in TA or DA,

I tape my flights and look at them afterwards... externally then yes.

Although, I fully understand what Ghosth and Cthulhu are saying.  That's why I play.  You won't see me in an arena with ext. views.

However, I do understand that there are a lot of "console players" (not a negative name ;)) that would play this sim, and can't (or don't enjoy it as much) because they are used to the ext. views on their PS3, Xbox, or whatever console...
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Arlo on April 27, 2008, 05:47:18 AM
(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh204/arlogu3/AHIIwishgenie_dogfight_in_buffs.jpg)
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: SD67 on April 27, 2008, 05:52:27 AM
LOL Arlo, we do have P38's after all :t
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: stephen waldron on April 29, 2008, 10:27:41 AM
   External views for fighters (with a few exceptions) would be totally realistic.  The idea a pilot in combat is only "aware" of what can be seen from his cockpit, is total nonsense.  The advent of radios in airplanes eliminated this problem.  If you can be seen by other friendlies, you would know what the enemy is doing.  Especially how the enemy is maneuvering against you.

    However.  Most AH pilots are playing a video game, instead of trying to create a military airwar simulation.  They freqeuntly neglect to share information or give timely warnings to other planes on their side.   How many times have you heard someone complain about only getting a "Check 6" warning, after their plane is in flames ?Is this a realistic simulation of air combat in the real world ?  No. It is not.

     I can only think of a few exceptions. Some pilots do fly and hunt alone. The "Lone Wolf" scenario. Damaged planes sometimes fall behind or are seperated from friendlies.  Planes out of ammo fly away.  Radios are sometimes "shot out".  Simply put, if you are close enough to friendlies to be seen, and your radio equipment is undamaged...  You should have EXTERNAL VIEW.   Suddenly all the personalities and incompetancy of the VIDEO GAME culture are eliminated, And the game becomes more REALISTIC.
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: bongaroo on April 29, 2008, 10:36:44 AM
I'm going with no on this one.  It's a crutch you learned with, like people zooming for a guns solution or flying a plane with tons of ammo so you can walk your bullets over the target instead of learning to shoot properly.

Just suck it up and you'll be a better pilot for it.
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: thndregg on April 29, 2008, 02:14:54 PM
I say no as well to external views. Even the actual pilots of these WW2 birds probably cussed about obstructed views in thier planes, and HTC seems to have kept that element in AH quite well. It's just part of the experience.
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Hungry on April 29, 2008, 06:45:57 PM
   External views for fighters (with a few exceptions) would be totally realistic.  The idea a pilot in combat is only "aware" of what can be seen from his cockpit, is total nonsense.  The advent of radios in airplanes eliminated this problem.  If you can be seen by other friendlies, you would know what the enemy is doing.  Especially how the enemy is maneuvering against you.

    However.  Most AH pilots are playing a video game, instead of trying to create a military airwar simulation.  They freqeuntly neglect to share information or give timely warnings to other planes on their side.   How many times have you heard someone complain about only getting a "Check 6" warning, after their plane is in flames ?Is this a realistic simulation of air combat in the real world ?  No. It is not.

     I can only think of a few exceptions. Some pilots do fly and hunt alone. The "Lone Wolf" scenario. Damaged planes sometimes fall behind or are seperated from friendlies.  Planes out of ammo fly away.  Radios are sometimes "shot out".  Simply put, if you are close enough to friendlies to be seen, and your radio equipment is undamaged...  You should have EXTERNAL VIEW.   Suddenly all the personalities and incompetancy of the VIDEO GAME culture are eliminated, And the game becomes more REALISTIC.

I'm allmost speechless is this a troll? I pictured Dick Bong standing on his aircraft behind the canopy with a joystick and throttle in his hands fighting Zero's.  My brain went numb I think I allmost passed out from laughing so hard.

F3 in the MA for fighters is the wickedess most gamey pathetic thing anyones ever suggested.  There was a glich in AW way back when where you could turn off or disable certain views that made it seem like you were flying on a 2 x 4.  F3 amounts to the same thing.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOO NNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVV VVVVVVEEEEEEERRRRRRRRR.

PS HT I'll double my subscription amount if you promise to never do this. 
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Saurdaukar on April 29, 2008, 07:50:12 PM
I realize I'm probably irritating more than my share of purists, but I would sure love to have external views in fighters in the main. I apologize if anyone is offended by this suggestion, but I pay my 15 bucks too, and would love to play in the main arenas with this view. I came up in 8-player, and just have more fun with externals. I'm in the DA mostly, but I like the main as well.

Anyways, not trying to ruffle feathers, but I figured I'd voice my opinion.

DD

No.
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 29, 2008, 08:06:19 PM
There is no unfair advantage to externals, and that is proven everytime I get shot down in the DA by someone using internal views only.

There is an unfair advantage, and the reason why someone using internal views can whip your arse in the DA while using external views is because you're not very good.  You won't get better either by relying on crutches like external views.


ack-ack
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Husky01 on April 29, 2008, 08:08:00 PM
No F3 in MA, theres shouldn't even be F3 in the DA. IMO
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Arlo on April 29, 2008, 08:49:58 PM
Wouldn't it be a hoot if this wish thread backfired?


Yeah.  ;)
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: hubsonfire on April 29, 2008, 09:57:02 PM
"You have two left. Don't embarrass yourself."

 :lol

No way to external views. AH has a great view system. Use it.
Title: Re: External Views in the MA?
Post by: Delirium on April 30, 2008, 12:47:09 AM
External view IS enabled for fighters in the MA... on the ground and you can retain that ability if you don't take off.

AHs view system is one of the most friendly to view areas behind obstructions in a virtual aircraft, in my opinion and left alone.