Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Sled on April 19, 2008, 04:23:26 PM
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Ok, we have some things going on in FSO that will stop.
- 1. The shooting of friendly AC.
This has been an increasing problem, it won't be for long. We recently suspended a player from FSO for this, we are more than willing to suspend more people from FSO. Don't think we will not find out, between the logs we can look at, and the hundreds of films that people run, there is very little chance that you can purposely shoot at a Friendly AC and get away with it.
- 2. Pilots on the ground shooting AC with their side arm. (.45 ACP)
A new thing in this last frame of FSO. It also will be short lived. FSO is about Pilots in AC (or sometimes GV's) fighting each other. Man and Machine vs. Man and Machine, not Man and .45 shooting unwary pilot on a rearm pad. Again logs and film will show, any further offences of this type will result in suspensions from FSO. Once you are out of your AC you should be heading to the tower.
- 3. Trash talking in the game.
You want to harass people about the way they fly? Go to the MA. This hasn't been to big of a problem lately, but if it starts to again, you are going to get muted. If you become a repeat offender, you will be ejected, or suspended.
A word about our logs. The CM team has access to extensive information about what happens during an event. The logs that you see on the AH Events site is only the tip of the ice berg. We can pull up every single bullet you fire, when it was fired, and who it hit. Big brother is watching during FSO. :)
Also keep in mind, there is normally 10 or more members of the CM team attending an FSO frame. They are on both sides and all over the map flying with their squads. And they are paying attention. Just food for thought.
:salute
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Wonder who shot down who this week. :devil :devil
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Wonder who shot down who this week. :devil :devil
From what I understand nobody went down, just minor damage.
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Never thought people would actually shoot friendly pilots on purpose, seems like a strange thing to do.
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It is a strange thing to do trax1. Unfortunately, there seems to be an influx of players who think it's cute to run amok and mess up someone else's fun.
Players put far too much effort into these events to allow for some few dolts to come in and think they can do as they please.
They are wrong. This is the arena where the serious want to come and have a good time. The rest are not welcome, and will be removed. Just about done discussing it, warning them, and trying to educate them. Some think it's cute and that they are clever. It's Us that are supposed to lighten up, it's Us who cannot figure out they are just trying to have fun and we shouldn't take it so seriously. Again, they are wrong.
We can, and will, protect the players who take this seriously by removing those who don't.
There will be little warning, and even less discussion about it. Simply put, to those who wonder if I might be talking to them, I probably am. Your done. Those that think it will now be a new game to see if they can get banned from events, be careful about going there. Those squads that consistently field problem children to any events, well, squads can be removed as easy as players. We are here to fully support those who want to be here. We are working for those who want to do these types of events. The rest are not welcome, and will not be tolerated.
Sled spoke to the FSO, as this is his event. I am speaking to the direction I have given to all the events. We are done with the antics. Those who want to enjoy this arena are far more important to what we do than those who don't want to be here. Trust me, we will accommodate your wish.
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Taking this approach is the only thing that can be done to protect the event. Last night was my first FSO and it was apparent early on how much work the FSO staff does to produce a very good event. People acting out in those ways cannot be allowed to sully the work that the FSO volunteers do.
Even my squad, which in the MA is real loose and easy going was professional and took the event seriously. We all commented to each other (before vox went out- lol) that FSO is a completely different animal than MA. A very good difference. I plan on attending as many as I can, especially after seeing that the leadership is serious about keeping it a tight, no nonsense event
You do a great job.
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man ive been here a long time and never been to an FSO, from the sounds of it this is were i might enjoy some serious fighting.
just not exactly sure what it is ill check it out.
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man ive been here a long time and never been to an FSO, from the sounds of it this is were i might enjoy some serious fighting.
just not exactly sure what it is ill check it out.
FSO is where you come if you want to try something thats is the opposite of the MA. These events are by far where I have the most fun playing AH, I know people that pay for AH and only fly in FSO, it's the best 2 hours in AH each week it runs. These events are the closest you can get to experience what it was really like flying in WW2. It's all about teamwork and doing whats not in just your best interests, but whats in the best interest of your side. I guarantee that if you try it out you'll be hooked.
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Sled, ROC. :aok
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Gents,
I am retired military. I work in the field of providing simulations (both virtual and constructive) to Army units and have done so for the past 16 years. What SLED and the guys that put on FSO do is not an easy task. They are to be highly commended for their efforts. They take a Game and develop the conditions that Simulates an historical campaign. No small task!
With the Army training, fratricide is a serious subject that is punishable by the Uniform Code of Military Justice for intentionally repeating the offence in training. The Army’s position is that you will do in war is what you do in training. Fratricide as an accidental event happens in this game, however as a practice, it should be condemned with a harsh penalty.
The intentional shooting of a non-combatant (Bailed Out Pilot) is a violation of the laws of war. However, if that pilot engages in combat activities he is a fair target or he can be tried for murder if he kills under the colors of being a non-combatant. The downed pilot that goes on the offensive should be ejected without recourse, just as the real thing would be a bullet magnate in a hostile land.
I endorse whole heartily what SLED said in his initial posting. Well that is the view from my turret hatch.
Jamie
TULL
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Agreed, Sled & ROC <<S>>
Although I did not witness any of this, I would expect that people should act accordingly and obied by the rules given.
ROC:
Players put far too much effort into these events to allow for some few dolts to come in and think they can do as they please.
Indeed we do.
I remember seeing in the logs in one FSO I attended that I shot down one of my own squaddies while at the same time someone else did from the other side. I'm sure this is just a miscalculation by the computer (not sure what does it). But like you said, you can count every bullet & the tip of the iceberg is the only thing we see.
<<S>>
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Thank you for the kind words Gents.
We enjoy running a quality event. And I plan on keeping it that way.
:)
:salute
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I remember seeing in the logs in one FSO I attended that I shot down one of my own squaddies while at the same time someone else did from the other side. I'm sure this is just a miscalculation by the computer (not sure what does it). But like you said, you can count every bullet & the tip of the iceberg is the only thing we see.
<<S>>
Don't worry, we can tell the difference between a friendly fire incident and shooting at a friendly on purpose. If a squad mate passes in front of you while you are unloading on a bandit, and he (squaddie) catches a few rounds by accident, we can tell that. Plus any film will plainly tell the true story.
:aok
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My squad has a few friendly kills. But never on purpose usually just because they forget that they could go and kill each other. And this week that is what I believe happened. One of my guys shot another one of my guys. Although my vox was out so I do not know what caused this.
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Rock on Sled, Roc <S>
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Accidental friendly fire happens, especially when escorting bombers. With that much lead flying about it is easy to ping up a friend and then later he crashes, ditches, or dies but the computer determines you did the most damage to him (possibly the guy who really did is dead now so another enemy then finishes him off with a few bullets but you hit him with more earlier in the frame).
All of these situations are fine. It is the intentional attacking and killing of other pilots on your side in FSO that is being talked about.
There are squads that my own have rivalries in the MA with. However, here when you are on the same side we put those aside and work as a team. This is a team event where one side pits itself against the other and where the results of team determine the outcome. Helping to kill somebody but not getting the credit for the kill is important here since your side gets credit even though you don't. It is a very different mentality that is needed to be flown with in here than in the MA (couple new people on Friday didn't seem to understand that is a one life event .. another major difference between FSO and the MA).
So the intentional killing of one of the pilots on your own side is sort of like an football player (on the offensive team) taking up one of his own linemen helping the defense to get through and sack the quarterback. Makes no sense and is reprehensible.
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I thought that it was just people goofing off and shooting each other that you guys were talking about, I had no idea that some people were intentionally shooting friendlies just because they had some issue with them. If you ask me, if someone does something like that they don't even deserve a warning, they should just get banned from FSO's.
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Yep there was some sad conduct going on this frame by a few people. To prepare for the FSO dump your MA mentality and rivalry. The job in here is to follow the mission plan, kill the enemy in air to air or gv to gv combat and bomb things. Those are all pretty much the basics. Your job is to live make it back and land or know when to get out and try to get a bail or skillful ditch. Your life counts more for the whole score of everyone on your side. Numbers of enemy killed is offset by numbers of friendlies lost so i try to save as many friendlies as i can. I may not like a certain person or squad but if he's flying on my side i'll do everything i can to keep him alive and accomplish the mission or task we are given. :salute
AKsleepy
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From what I understand nobody went down, just minor damage.
i did i made it back to my carier and then fried gives me a pilot wound :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
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See Rules #5, #6
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There are a lot of MA players who do FSO as well that do not realise that friendly fire is a real concern, and they spray at enemy e/a with friendlies too close. I have gotten my share of hits from gun crazy n00bsters spraying like mad at every fighter in the sky. Its not always deliberate fratricide, but its still annoying.
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Banshee7, I did not start this thread so you would have a place to start "poking" at people.
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Poking at people is what started this mess. It would be a Very good idea to not consider yourself innocent there Banshee7. This would be an awfully good time for you to stand down as well.
I wonder why some people insist on putting large targets on their backs. Do you guys think Only the things You claim are looked at? What, we don't see films from others? :rofl
Ya, right.
By the way, please don't interpret this as an opportunity to discuss. It isn't. Knock it off or leave. Again, Sled is taking care of the FSO, I'm looking at events across the board. End of subject.
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LOL,
i think the friendly fire is just a calculated effort to achieve points.
spammer
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Shooting friendlies is just dumb and wrong but I would not be too quick to judge "Pistol Pete". You've just been bombing and strafiing a Japanese field on the Japanese big island and you find yourself in a chute dropping into the middle of that very same Japanese airbase. You've seen or at least heard of the horrific treatment POW's have been subjected to so you decide to go out in a blaze of glory and, just maybe, save some other Navy pilots from dying. Seems historically accurate to me. If it's against the rules, then lets not do it, but we gotta know the rules first. This is not as as intuitively wrong as some seem to think.
Disclaimer: A perpetrator of a pistol incident is a friend of mine.
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Gentlemen, Please pay attention to what we are saying. We are quite clear as to the difference between friendly fire in a furball and some nitwit saddling up on a friendly, opening fire after being called off and My having to get into observation mode to witness it.
Just read the warnings, if it doesn't apply to you then don't worry about it.
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Lately, I have been filming the our squads FSO events. This event was the first time I had any call to go back and look at a few things that may or may not have happened. Embarrassed to admit it, but been flying quite awhile and this was the first time I really sat down and used the veiwer for films. I was surprised on how much I can see, and be able to go right into the cockpit of another in the area.
Opened my eyes up to how I can jump to another area, be that other person, and see it as if I was the one flying. Now I fully understand how ROC and crew can pick things out of the dark like they do. With so many people filming, I don't think theres anything that goes on that can't be seen in many different ways, from every advantage point possible. No problem seeing the intent of ones actions with full clarity.
Definitely an eye-opener.
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I was just joking about this very topic with a rival CO after frame #1. Too see it actually happening is disturbing indeed. FSO is not the place for some people, until they learn to check their bags at the door. 2 hours a week, of good behavior doesn't seem like to much to ask in my opinion. I hope there are no second chances concerning fragging.
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:salute Sled and Roc.
No mercy and no questions or excuses...offenders should be ejected for first offense.
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if a squadmember gets shot down on perpose by a squadmate the squad should get the first crack at the man
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Wrong attitude for FSO snowey. Vengeance only leads to more vengeance.
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if a squadmember gets shot down on perpose by a squadmate the squad should get the first crack at the man
I believe he is refering to disiplinary actions, not shooting him down.
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It is unfortunate that some pilots are not taking the fso serious. Friendly fire is a fact of all combat, its going to happen. But to do it purposely is just wrong... In reference to the two pilots engaging the enemy with their side arms at the rearm pad. I totally support, if this had been real, they would have gotten the medal of honor for their actions against the enemy. They did not engage friendly forces... If side arms were not intended to be used than way have them. I'm retired military and have been in combat, these men showed initiative, in accomplishing the mission. I would be proud to lead these men in combat any day. I've read the rules and no where does it say that the use of side arms is forbidden. I think that big stink is that, the other side didn't think of it first. Faced with the same situation, I would have done the same.
Nomade :mad:
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I was just joking about this very topic with a rival CO after frame #1. Too see it actually happening is disturbing indeed. FSO is not the place for some people, until they learn to check their bags at the door. 2 hours a week, of good behavior doesn't seem like to much to ask in my opinion. I hope there are no second chances concerning fragging.
Agreed. No matter who it is.
Twice we have flown same sides with a rival squad this FSO. Twice we have played nice and so did our rivals. Like Stampf said 2 hours of good behavior is not unbearable. Even I can seem to manage it :rofl
I must offer my unsolicited opinion that squad CO's should be held responsible, as well. As a former NCO in the US Army, I was answerable for my personal actions, as well as the actions of those under my command. When I got the screws put to me about my platoon's behavior, I took advantage of gravity and rolled the crap directly downhill. If I had to suffer, the platoon did likewise until we got it fixed.
The rules are posted in the special events site. I recall reading something about being careful about who you allow as a walk on, or into your squad. I know this sounds harsh, but perhaps muting, suspending, punishing, etc CO's or entire squads will get the point across with great effeciency. Perhaps it will give motovation to a squad and their CO's to police these types of activity within their own chain of command. I may be old-school, but I assure you that an old-school "blanket party" will change the ate-up behavior of a few individuals. Piss on the fun of the entire squad and they will usually take care of it, in-house.
If the CO doesn't reprimand the behavior, then they really did not care and thus you have effectively culled the dead weight, anyhow.
Meine zwei Pfennig.
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In reference to the two pilots engaging the enemy with their side arms at the rearm pad. I totally support, if this had been real, they would have gotten the medal of honor for their actions against the enemy. They did not engage friendly forces... If side arms were not intended to be used than way have them. I'm retired military and have been in combat, these men showed initiative, in accomplishing the mission. I would be proud to lead these men in combat any day. I've read the rules and no where does it say that the use of side arms is forbidden. I think that big stink is that, the other side didn't think of it first. Faced with the same situation, I would have done the same.
Nomade :mad:
Thank you for the opinion.
However, most of the FSO players, and the CM team disagree.
I think that big stink is that, the other side didn't think of it first.
What would make you think that? Where has that been presented as a factor in this discussion?
I've read the rules and no where does it say that the use of side arms is forbidden.
There are a lot of things that the rules don't "say". As time goes along we will add things that we think are necessary to have in writing.
If side arms were not intended to be used than way have them.
That is not in our control. We can only decide if we want them used in FSO, we don't.
I totally support, if this had been real, they would have gotten the medal of honor for their actions against the enemy.......
I think not,
If this had been real, they would have been walking around on an enemy base with a single .45ACP, surrounded by dozens of ground maintenance personal, and enemy ground troops. They would have been captured or killed probably without firing a shot.
In real life, if two pilots bail from their AC, they do all they can to avoid contact with the enemy, trying to wait out rescue by hiding. Two pilots with .45's don't charge an enemy air base trying to shoot taxing enemy AC. That might be the job of an organized ground force, but not two pilots. The job of two shot down pilots, is to avoid detection, wait for rescue, get back to their base, get a new AC, and get back in the air.
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If this had been real, they would have been walking around on an enemy base with a single .45ACP, surrounded by dozens of ground maintenance personal, and enemy ground troops. They would have been captured or killed probably without firing a shot.
In real life, if two pilots bail from their AC, they do all they can to avoid contact with the enemy, trying to wait out rescue by hiding. Two pilots with .45's don't charge an enemy air base trying to shoot taxing enemy AC. That might be the job of an organized ground force, but not two pilots. The job of two shot down pilots, is to avoid detection, wait for rescue, get back to their base, get a new AC, and get back in the air.
Ja!
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Must a rule be written about everything? Phssst!
A rule shouldn't be necessary to curb this type of thing. If someone deliberately attempts to spoil the event for others, then expect repercussions.
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This should have never been an issue. You would think people would think before they acted.
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This should have never been an issue. You would think people would think before they acted.
Hope you're not talking to me. I would never think people would think before acting. :D Among those few who would stop and think, some are bound to come to a different conclusion than you would. Again, if it's going to be "not allowed" then let everyone know and get on with it.
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SLED,
Thank you for amplifying the point that I tried to make in my first posting about downed pilots being a bullet magnet.
Nomade,
As we are both retired military, we each know the difference between NTC/JRTC combat bravery and that of men under real fire. In the former, no one’s life is at risk. It is easy to do “Brave” things. I understand your point of wanting aggressive people on you team but you statement about the CMH is off target. I had a mentor in my career who was a downed B-29 crew member in Japan (he use to habitually put out his cigarette in the palm of his own hand). Attacking an airbase in Japan with your M1911A1 was not a realistic expectation.
Believe me, I am not trying to initiate an argument but providing a sensing from my turret hatch.
Jamie
TULL
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Again, if it's going to be "not allowed" then let everyone know and get on with it.
Isn't that what they just did in this thread?
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If this had been real, they would have been walking around on an enemy base with a single .45ACP, surrounded by dozens of ground maintenance personal, and enemy ground troops. They would have been captured or killed probably without firing a shot.
In real life, if two pilots bail from their AC, they do all they can to avoid contact with the enemy, trying to wait out rescue by hiding. Two pilots with .45's don't charge an enemy air base trying to shoot taxing enemy AC. That might be the job of an organized ground force, but not two pilots. The job of two shot down pilots, is to avoid detection, wait for rescue, get back to their base, get a new AC, and get back in the air.
You are absolutely correct, but I think you missed my point.
Nomade
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Shooting a pilot on the rearm pad with your side arm is considered gaming the game, and thats not what FSO is about.
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Wrong attitude for FSO snowey. Vengeance only leads to more vengeance.
i mean throwing the person out of the squad but if he doesnt stop shooting friendlys the squad should shoot the man down
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If a pilot is on an enemy field wouldn't the ack kill him? :huh
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If a pilot is on an enemy field wouldn't the ack kill him? :huh
Not if they took out the ack before he got there.
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Not if they took out the ack before he got there.
For whatever its worth, the kill in question was not credited to the USN with respect to the Frame 2 score.
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Hello: tunes here ...
Who would have thought that living after baling out of my F6F5 HellCat. Would cause such a up roar.
1. I never read or heard anyone say that you should tower after being shot down.
2. Running to the field was a choice I made to gather Intel on the attack my Squad had just made.
3. When enemy aircraft started to return to A35. I was on the field finishing that part of my mission.
4. These returning aircraft on the ground and in the air, had every opportunity to kill me.
5. I was not attacking the airfield. I was defending myself from these returning enemy fighters.
6. I have nothing but respect for the FSO and the hard working people that make it happen.
7. Please ... no more interpretations. That is what happen. If it was wrong then I made the mystake.
tunes
LCA Group XO <S>
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No worries Tunes. :aok
They just don't want players who bailed capping aircraft on the ground anymore. Not that many will get a chance, but the opportunity could happen again. :salute
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Having two seperate issues in one forum post is very confusing! :rolleyes:
A) :furious Purposeful killing of allies should be meet with stiff penalties but at the same time the evidence should be viewed by 3 or 4 of the command personel and if all agree, then termination should occur.
B) :o After thinking about the side-arm issue, I may have done the exact same thing at some point. BUT, after reading this thread, I will never do it in the FSO. Your right, WE ARE ALL braver in this GAME than we are in real life because it is just that.....!
Now, onto a bigger issue! Any chance we will ever get spell check in this forum? :lol
:salute Great job FSO command!
:rock
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Now, onto a bigger issue! Any chance we will ever get spell check in this forum?
Here is one I use for explorer.
http://www.iespell.com/download.php (http://www.iespell.com/download.php)
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Now, onto a bigger issue! Any chance we will ever get spell check in this forum?
Browse with Firefox. Has it built in and works great.
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Browse with Firefox. Has it built in and works great.
Plus Firefox is just a better all around browser.
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Plus Firefox is just a better all around browser.
:aok
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:salute Thanks!
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LONG LIVE FIREFOX
(http://www.mrbass.org/freeware/firefox/firefox.jpg)
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Sorry I don't have the time to figure out where this thread is going but I did like where it started :)
Guy's when you get in the FSO just remember everyone on your side has a common goal.
Sled & ROC said what needed to be said....
Oh wait did ROC comment on using a .45 on a friendly (squadmate) during a FSO cough cough :)
MGD
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punting to save
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make it a sticky
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seconded
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Other forums are already losing stuff. Save it if it's of value.
BTW, Dicho, I don't do probes. :lol
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LMAO
Aren't you glad you got a Trunkmonkey? :D
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Would the Chaperone version of Trunk Monkey fall under this topic? After all, he does keep a shotgun locked and loaded in case my daughter's date tries anything...
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not a bad idea at all :rofl
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Only if he's shooting friendlies too.