Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Impakt on April 21, 2008, 08:07:06 AM
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Another "forcing" idea that I nonetheless like.
(1) In the Late War each pilot gets 3 of each plane. So, if you get killed 3 times in an LA-7 you've used up your LA-7s until the map resets. Some planes could have an infinite limit like Spit V, 109F4, A6M-2, P40-E, etc---perhaps say ENY of 20 or over so that Newbs wouldn't quickly find themselves out of planes. This would "force" players to (1) care about their lives, (2) think hard about WHEN to HO, (3) think hard about suicide JABO. It would also add to the variety of AC used in game.
(2) And in an unrelated matter---on Vehicle Spawn points. One of the silliest aspects of the ground game in AH---is, IMO the fact that you can drive a vehicle to the enemy spawnpoint and camp on it for 33 kills. Perhaps the vehicle spawns other than in the hangar should be multiple, random, and secret. So, one knows, and the enemy knows that yu can spawn GVs near a town or base---but exactly where is unsure----and perhaps the spawn point could shift every so often (random variation between say three possibilities). This would make the cheap kills associated with spawnpoint camping harder. It would enhance the offensive capabilities of GVs, and it would make the A-20s have to search a wider swath of territory when hunting GVs----instead of flying the vector from spawnpoint to target. Perhaps a "spawnpoint zone" or "zones" should be map designated---and the spawning player right clicks on the map for the exact spawnpoint in that zone. I KNOW---code required----oops---well its an idea.
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Another "forcing" idea that I nonetheless like.
(1) In the Late War each pilot gets 3 of each plane. So, if you get killed 3 times in an LA-7 you've used up your LA-7s until the map resets. Some planes could have an infinite limit like Spit V, 109F4, A6M-2, P40-E, etc---perhaps say ENY of 20 or over so that Newbs wouldn't quickly find themselves out of planes. This would "force" players to (1) care about their lives, (2) think hard about WHEN to HO, (3) think hard about suicide JABO. It would also add to the variety of AC used in game.
I'm defenitely what they call a safety flyer - but this proposal would promote "safe" flying beyond any limit. People woud be very reluctant to engage the enemy unless a kill is certain. Also there are many players that do fly only one plane, not for performance but for historical / sentimental reasons. Why in the world would you like to prevent them flying their fav ride unless it's destabilizing the whole arena. It's fine to care about your virtual life (I do), but it pushed too far on a global level, gameplay would be hurt tremendously.
And don't think there will be less JABO suicidal acts - you can Kamikaze from 15k with an 25 ENY bird as well as with a 5 ENY one! Instead of crashing a P47N into a CV they will just use a P38G
And yes, you will still put new players / players with less skills at an serious disadvantage forcing them quickly into "lesser" rides while experienced players like me can fly La-7 and Tempest for days without ever losing a machine. Your a new player that would like to fly the famous P-51? Bad luck son - three short hops and that was it.
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Another "forcing" idea that I nonetheless like.
(1) In the Late War each pilot gets 3 of each plane. So, if you get killed 3 times in an LA-7 you've used up your LA-7s until the map resets. Some planes could have an infinite limit like Spit V, 109F4, A6M-2, P40-E, etc---perhaps say ENY of 20 or over so that Newbs wouldn't quickly find themselves out of planes. This would "force" players to (1) care about their lives, (2) think hard about WHEN to HO, (3) think hard about suicide JABO. It would also add to the variety of AC used in game.
ummmm....
NO
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As an aside---there is some "forcing" taking place as it is. If your favorite "sentimental" ride is an F4U 1-C or a Spitfire XIV---you'll have to earn the perks to fly it all the time---which may mean NOT flying it all the time. Which leads to an interesting question: what criteria are used for deciding the perk planes: (1) exotic nature of the ride? That is, it wasn't used much in the war. If so, then maybe LA-7 or Ki-84, and CERTAINLY the Ta-152 should be perked. (2) The plane is so "uber" that it throws play balance out and yields an arena with ONLY those rides? If so, what percentage of planes in the air are P51D, LA-7, Spit XVI, 109K, 190D, and N1K?? Why is adding the Spit XIV or F4U 1-C to this list so onerous---but limiting these rides considered sacrosanct? Just curious.
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I like the spawn idea, so long as it doesn't scatter GV players trying to coordinate attacks. The random VH spawn when spawning on the base would be a good spawn camp counter measure too.
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Another "forcing" idea that I nonetheless like.
(1) In the Late War each pilot gets 3 of each plane. So, if you get killed 3 times in an LA-7 you've used up your LA-7s until the map resets. Some planes could have an infinite limit like Spit V, 109F4, A6M-2, P40-E, etc---perhaps say ENY of 20 or over so that Newbs wouldn't quickly find themselves out of planes. This would "force" players to (1) care about their lives, (2) think hard about WHEN to HO, (3) think hard about suicide JABO. It would also add to the variety of AC used in game.
(2) And in an unrelated matter---on Vehicle Spawn points. One of the silliest aspects of the ground game in AH---is, IMO the fact that you can drive a vehicle to the enemy spawnpoint and camp on it for 33 kills. Perhaps the vehicle spawns other than in the hangar should be multiple, random, and secret. So, one knows, and the enemy knows that yu can spawn GVs near a town or base---but exactly where is unsure----and perhaps the spawn point could shift every so often (random variation between say three possibilities). This would make the cheap kills associated with spawnpoint camping harder. It would enhance the offensive capabilities of GVs, and it would make the A-20s have to search a wider swath of territory when hunting GVs----instead of flying the vector from spawnpoint to target. Perhaps a "spawnpoint zone" or "zones" should be map designated---and the spawning player right clicks on the map for the exact spawnpoint in that zone. I KNOW---code required----oops---well its an idea.
1) As far as Idea number 1 do not care for it. It would not impact me so much, and like yourself I do not care for the behaviors of head on attacks or suicide JABO's. Anything that forces any other pilot to "fly the way I think they should fly" according to another players wants I am vehemently against.
2) Idea number 2 is a great start to an idea. For too long the ability to rack up GV kills by sitting on your bum turkey shoot style needs to be wrapped up and dealt with somehow. How about enemy GV spawns are invisible & zoned with the intention of groups spawning together can stay together.
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As an aside---there is some "forcing" taking place as it is. If your favorite "sentimental" ride is an F4U 1-C or a Spitfire XIV---you'll have to earn the perks to fly it all the time---which may mean NOT flying it all the time. Which leads to an interesting question: what criteria are used for deciding the perk planes: (1) exotic nature of the ride? That is, it wasn't used much in the war. If so, then maybe LA-7 or Ki-84, and CERTAINLY the Ta-152 should be perked. (2) The plane is so "uber" that it throws play balance out and yields an arena with ONLY those rides? If so, what percentage of planes in the air are P51D, LA-7, Spit XVI, 109K, 190D, and N1K?? Why is adding the Spit XIV or F4U 1-C to this list so onerous---but limiting these rides considered sacrosanct? Just curious.
Whether or not a plane gets perked is dependent on whether or not the plane unperked would cause an unbalance in game play.
ack-ack
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Another "forcing" idea that I nonetheless like.
(1) In the Late War each pilot gets 3 of each plane. So, if you get killed 3 times in an LA-7 you've used up your LA-7s until the map resets. Some planes could have an infinite limit like Spit V, 109F4, A6M-2, P40-E, etc---perhaps say ENY of 20 or over so that Newbs wouldn't quickly find themselves out of planes. This would "force" players to (1) care about their lives, (2) think hard about WHEN to HO, (3) think hard about suicide JABO. It would also add to the variety of AC used in game.
It's just another example of "I want you to fly what I want, play the way I want, fight the way I want" request.
ack-ack
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If so, what percentage of planes in the air are P51D, LA-7, Spit XVI, 109K, 190D, and N1K??
(http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/2955/usageuv0.jpg)
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5126/kdeh1.jpg)
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Thanks Lusche---nice data---guess it is pretty balanced as it is.
@Ack-Ack. I don't want to make people play my way. As I stated in another post--I will H-O depending on the situation and the Osprey series real life accounts are FULL of head on accounts from the war---indeed, there are few battles that don't include them. It is a "wishlist," and I suppose I find aircraft diversity in game something that appeals to me. Perhaps that is wishful thinking. I'll just keep flying what I like P-40E, C-205, Spit VIII, F4Us, Yak-9U, FM-2 and be content. I'll also probably come up with some dumb ideas too.
I'm glad people seem to find the spawn point camping silly. Last night someone did "land" 33 kills in a Firefly. :confused: :rolleyes: :uhoh
Anyway, thanks all for the input---whatever its character.
:salute :salute :salute Impakt
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Just had a thought about the spawn camping "issue" what if the remote spawns from the airfield took you to something akin to a forward observation post. A trench with a set of binoculars or a periscope or something where you could survey the spawning area then spawn into it at 3-4 (or however many) different locations with a small randomizing factor built in. if you spread the area out, you could still spawn in relatively close proximity to squaddies or whatnot for coordination. Would make it harder to camp the spawn itself but still allow the defending airbase to know the direction the attack would come form and prepare for it.
The limited number of planes idea I'm totally against. People fly too timid as it is, I dislike the perk planes because they are for the most part boring to fight, since the pilot rarely sticks his neck out more than he has to and the performance gap makes it hard to turn the tables, I have no desire to see that behavior enhanced. To me the fun is in the fighting because the only penalty is a trip back to the tower and perhaps a bruised ego. I can understand the tactics used by real pilots in life and death situations, because they were life and death situations. But we're playing a silly cartoon airplane game, so claiming something as valid based solely on the idea that real fighter pilots did it doesn't hold a lot of weight to me because the stakes aren't the same.
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Another "forcing" idea that I nonetheless like.
(1) In the Late War each pilot gets 3 of each plane. So, if you get killed 3 times in an LA-7 you've used up your LA-7s until the map resets. Some planes could have an infinite limit like Spit V, 109F4, A6M-2, P40-E, etc---perhaps say ENY of 20 or over so that Newbs wouldn't quickly find themselves out of planes. This would "force" players to (1) care about their lives, (2) think hard about WHEN to HO, (3) think hard about suicide JABO. It would also add to the variety of AC used in game.
(2) And in an unrelated matter---on Vehicle Spawn points. One of the silliest aspects of the ground game in AH---is, IMO the fact that you can drive a vehicle to the enemy spawnpoint and camp on it for 33 kills. Perhaps the vehicle spawns other than in the hangar should be multiple, random, and secret. So, one knows, and the enemy knows that yu can spawn GVs near a town or base---but exactly where is unsure----and perhaps the spawn point could shift every so often (random variation between say three possibilities). This would make the cheap kills associated with spawnpoint camping harder. It would enhance the offensive capabilities of GVs, and it would make the A-20s have to search a wider swath of territory when hunting GVs----instead of flying the vector from spawnpoint to target. Perhaps a "spawnpoint zone" or "zones" should be map designated---and the spawning player right clicks on the map for the exact spawnpoint in that zone. I KNOW---code required----oops---well its an idea.
Well, to the first one, I got an addition.
You get 3 rides per plane per month. Lets say you dont die on your favorite plane the Spixteen, SO instead of getting just 3 the next map spawn, you get 6. How ever many you didn't die in, you get that many more added to your 3. :aok
AND the number of 3 rides per plane should be alot more like 20-25. Makes things easier on everyone. :aok
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Wait lemme get this straight you only want to give me (3) FM-2s a month? Are you that afraid of it?
As for your spawn campers, egg em, bail and up.
Boy that was difficult.
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3 planes is ridiculously low, even if one wanted to go with such a concept.
For instance, I have 54 kills in my favorite airplane, the FW190 D9, but 5 deaths. And I "fly to live" as much as is reasonable*, and I'm pretty good at it.
Your point about GVs is well taken, the camping is getting abit out-of-hand.
*Reasonable defined as, I'm not going to plain ask to be shot down, doing things such as stall-fighting with a HurriIIc, or diving alone into a nest of 5 low La-7s, but I will actually attempt to kill things 1v1, not just pick with overwhelming numerical advantage.
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If the 3 plane thign ever went into effect...it should be raised according to ENY value. You would get 5 P51D's while getting 10 F6F's or something of the like.
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Squadrons or people that fly a certain aicraft would be completely against idea #1.
Frankly, if I had to ditch the p38 after the first 3 deaths, I'd have maybe 2 hours of game play each month followed by 718 hours of waiting for the month to reset.
No thanks...
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I like the spawn idea, so long as it doesn't scatter GV players trying to coordinate attacks. The random VH spawn when spawning on the base would be a good spawn camp counter measure too.
As would closing the back door, and having hedgerows on possible angles of the exit.
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I like the idea of making the vehicle spawns different, they are randomly generated within a specific area, I'd like to see that area expanded.
I reverse out of Vh's probably 33% of the time so closing the back door isn't a good option for me I'm afraid.
Simply put if your VH is being camped up a T34 and deal with it. It's pretty easy albeit a little frustrating :) If you coordinated the spawn with a squaddie you can spawn one sacrificial tank, then up a T34 and you can be guaranteed of getting the turret around for the shot the second time :)
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Yeah---idea 1 pretty bad---BUT it wasn't a per month limit---just each "war" ---once map is reset---you get your rides back. The limit could just apply to rides with ENY below 20, or 15, or 10.
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The average new guy will lose more than 3 planes an HOUR. You want to limit them to that a month?
Tsk tsk tsk.
As Lusche pointed out anything restricting plane availability is going to impact new people hard than the vets.
Guys like Lusche that have been here for years have skills in a wide variety of planes.
Your average new guy who is just mastering ACM has so so skills in 1 or 2 planes at best.
And once you've gone through all your planes, you expect people to not fly for the rest of the month?
By week three the arena's would be ghost towns, with only REALLY good sticks left in the air.
Think things all the way through. This would be a lose lose situation for HTC.
And your really showing us that we shouldn't even bother reading your posts.
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I'm not going to rip on Impakt for his idea. Sure, I totally disagree with it, but I think I see what he is getting at...currently killing other fighter planes in the MA actually has almost no strategic meaning. I think that it should remain that way of course, and leave the "attrition" for events and CT.
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Well, to the first one, I got an addition.
You get 3 rides per plane per month. Lets say you dont die on your favorite plane the Spixteen, SO instead of getting just 3 the next map spawn, you get 6. How ever many you didn't die in, you get that many more added to your 3. :aok
AND the number of 3 rides per plane should be alot more like 20-25. Makes things easier on everyone. :aok
I would quit.
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I dont know if this is my imagination but i think i remember a while ago at Vbases spawning out of random hangers. Ive lost so many brain cells i cant remember. :uhoh
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I guess you aren't reading them---I never said "once a month"---I said that every map reset you get a new list. How often does one side or the other win the war---that is how often you get new planes. New people can fly ENY 20 planes too---neither in Warbirds or here do I fly the Ubers---they might be better off not starting in an uber. Would it really harm a newb to spend some time in a Spit IX when he is out of LA-7s? Anyway, if you read my reply to Lusche I pretty much said my idea 1 was misguided.
This leads to a question----a rhetorical one---shouldn't a forum "wishlist" be precisely the place to vet new ideas??? Can any of us, new or old, think through the consequences and implications of an idea 100% without input and modification from others?? If my various proposals are so bad then you would indeed be correct to stop reading them.
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Yep, a quota of anything per reset is way off beam. A timeframe of days is out of the question.
Any effect of deaths at all should be very very light - not affecting play much, just a slight effect.
Say... after being killed/ditching/crashing/being captured, you can't up in that model plane/vehicle for X number of minutes... 10 min or something. You could still up in any other model immediately. So there's a minor price to being killed, but nothing game-destroying. The effect would have to be minor enough not to encourage people to deliberately disco rather than die.
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Wait lemme get this straight you only want to give me (3) FM-2s a month? Are you that afraid of it?
As for your spawn campers, egg em, bail and up.
Boy that was difficult.
I agree with Bronk regarding the spawn camping solution. There is no need to change the game in that respect. If a spawn is being camped, get a fellow flyboy to egg the campers, or bomb them yourself.
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I agree with Bronk regarding the spawn camping solution. There is no need to change the game in that respect. If a spawn is being camped, get a fellow flyboy to egg the campers, or bomb them yourself.
I agree that it is a simple solution, and one that I have and will continue to use. However, it does not address the issue. There are folks who can get 200-300 kills sitting on their bum. No skill required other than ranging. Tank battles should be dynamic, otherwise you are better off playing a tank game on an XBOX. Spend all night upping and bailing to kill campers just so I can up a GV? I don't think so. Further, I prefer (not saying fly my way here) to land my plane after every sortie. This makes it difficult to get back in time to prevent a camp again.
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I agree that it is a simple solution, and one that I have and will continue to use. However, it does not address the issue. There are folks who can get 200-300 kills sitting on their bum. No skill required other than ranging. Tank battles should be dynamic, otherwise you are better off playing a tank game on an XBOX. Spend all night upping and bailing to kill campers just so I can up a GV? I don't think so. Further, I prefer (not saying fly my way here) to land my plane after every sortie. This makes it difficult to get back in time to prevent a camp again.
I should have been more clear. I agree with Bronk as far as egging campers being an adequate solution (as opposed to changing the game). I don't agree with the bailing and upping part. I had in mind more of a teamwork solution, where bombers would clear out a camped spawn, allowing the good guys to up.
As far as the XBox goes, I wouldn't know about that. The only other game I have ever played was Wolfenstein 3D, about 14 years ago. :aok
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Well, of course there is an in game solution---bomb and then USUALLY try and camp their spawn point. Just seems a skill-less, lame, point grubbing, "gaming the game" way to rack up kills that could be avoided by changing the game. I'm not trying to force anyone to play my way---I am simply stating that to me, in my opinion only, such camping is lame and it is facilitated by (IMO) poor design. With that said I also find "bomb and bail," lame and I think sitting in fixed ak, carrier ak, and wirbels is odd---I'll stick mostly to planes.
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This leads to a question----a rhetorical one---shouldn't a forum "wishlist" be precisely the place to vet new ideas??? Can any of us, new or old, think through the consequences and implications of an idea 100% without input and modification from others?? If my various proposals are so bad then you would indeed be correct to stop reading them.
This may have been a rhetorical question, but I'm going to answer it anyway.
The major flaw with your thinking is that you posted this thread in a FORUM. That is, a place where things are meant to be discussed. Now, when you discuss things, what normally happens is people have 'input'. Gernerally, the input can either be, 'ja, das ist gut', which is worthless, or constructive criticism. Generally, constructive criticism comes with suggestions of how the critic would see it working well in their mind, and then another poster posts their thoughts on the OP's statement and the critic's statement. Generally, this leads to the OP and Poster #1 defending their ideas and incorporating their ideas together, or contrasting their ideas, forming what is called a 'discussion', or, sometimes an 'arguement'. These are what forums are about; this forum would be very boring if someone posted an idea, and some said 'thats great!' or 'that sucks!', with no real input what so ever. If you wanted your opinion/idea not to be criticised at all, then you shouldn't have posted it here; thats not what the forums are for. You would have been better off keeping it to yourself, where no one can criticise it, or emailed it to HTC so they could have just deleted it instead of reading about you whine about people having input and opinions of your idea.
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I dont know if this is my imagination but i think i remember a while ago at Vbases spawning out of random hangers. Ive lost so many brain cells i cant remember. :uhoh
I think you're right Nisky. There used to be 2 VH's, side by side, and as I recall, upping was randomized between the two. Problem was, a camper could sit in the indestructible and pretty well cover both.
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Well, of course there is an in game solution---bomb and then USUALLY try and camp their spawn point. Just seems a skill-less, lame, point grubbing, "gaming the game" way to rack up kills that could be avoided by changing the game. I'm not trying to force anyone to play my way---I am simply stating that to me, in my opinion only, such camping is lame and it is facilitated by (IMO) poor design. With that said I also find "bomb and bail," lame and I think sitting in fixed ak, carrier ak, and wirbels is odd---I'll stick mostly to planes.
Lame, point-grubbing, skill-less...whatever adjective you want to use. Camping is a known situation which can readily be taken care of by a little teamwork. Some of the best GV battles I have been in have taken place at a spawn point, with many, many GVers involved from both sides. I think the occasional person landing 33 kills is a small price to pay for sometimes hours of fun.
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@ Motherland----CAN YOU READ???
(1) My WHOLE POINT was that I WANTED MY IDEAS CRITICIZED--- THAT'S THE POINT IDEAS MUST BE SCRUTINIZED BY THE GROUP.
(2)gHOST accused me of not thinking thru the consequences myself with 100% clarity---I was pointing out that the forum is for vetting/ scrutiny.
(3) Had the intellectual courage to admit half idea noy very good. Did any of you wonder why I called it "Unpopular" in the title?? I knew MOST players are happy with UBER rides 24/7/365. The vehicle spawn idea is viable.
(4) The SAD TRUTH is that I have been in the game only since late February and I've had several good ideas:
(a) supporting the EW/MW/ AX-AL once a month.
(b) Fixing ridiculous spawn camping.
(c) Mulberry/ Beachead.
(d) A list of vehicles (D-520, Yak-3, Ki-43, Swordfish)that were much more important in WWII than many of the odd and exotic ones that have been "chosen" by the "wise elder statesmen" of the game. Revealing that there are not well thought out and agreed upon criteria.
(e) that maps need work/ replacement.
This ruffles the feathers of the "old players" who attempt to silence input by sugar coated versions of "shut-up newb". I won't be intimidated or silenced---I suggest that you follow your excellent idea of not reading. I will probably accomodate you by not posting---because I've quickly learned that this forum is, in Nietzsche's words "human all too human." How?
(1) People do not read with care.
(2) People are "territorial" and juvenile with some kind of odd "we've been here for years" sense of "ownership". IT IS AN OPEN FORUM ---petition the administrator to only allow posts by members of 5 years standing or more. [Hey, another good idea]. As an open forum---one's years of membership are of little relevance.
(3) People are (as in American society in general) uncivil and rude in their posts. They haven't mastered the art of disagreeing with someone politely. Argument ad hominem and from a tacit appeal to authority are the norm.
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This new guy I like :aok
His ideas are well presented. He is not scared of criticism, indeed he invites it!
His posts are legible and concise.
I admit I do not like your first suggestion since I predominantly fly a low ENY plane for historical reasons. I do however like the idea of expanding the area of the GV spawn point since camping is currently way too easy. Not that camping is not historically feasable, ambushing an incoming assault was not unheard of, and camping is not at all dissimilar. While it is easy enough when there is sufficient support online to call in an air strike, it's not always an option. Evening out the odds a little by making the possible area of spawning great enough to force campers to either coordinate their coverage better or adopt a more fluid tactic can not be a bad thing.
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It's a valid solution to bring eggs for spawncampers, but it'd be more fun and effective to randomize the spawn between the three hangars. Same with the FH and BHs.. It's a simpler and more elegant solution.