Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Valerio on June 01, 2008, 03:53:15 PM
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I know you guys might find it a bit hard, a bit easy to land in a turning, or dead still straight moving CV. So i was thinking maybe add an automatic landing system on CV planes. Sounds good to me idk what you think so post your thought.
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Ya,just like they did in ww2
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Your Sarcasm is hilarious, :lol but it would help alot of us. You disagree, good reason too. Thank you for your post. :)
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CV landing like most things in this game just take a little patience and practice. There's really no point that I can think of to adding an auto-landing system. As not landing really doesn't detract from what the game has to offer, it's merely a little icing on the cake.
Auto-take off is another matter, if you can't take off then you're severely limited in what the game has to offer, with landing this just isn't the case. After a little trial and error cv landing get's easier then after a spell it becomes automatic. When that happens you start looking around for what other crazy things you can try and land on the cv. :)
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:aok Daing, you got me there, i could probably learn if i had some practice and patiance thanks for the help. :)
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Personally I like landing on CVs more than airfields. It is much easier IMHO. You'll probably never get an auto lander.
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Your Sarcasm is hilarious, :lol but it would help alot of us. You disagree, good reason too. Thank you for your post. :)
How about learning to land on a carrier... It's quite easy in Aces High.
Try this: Take off in an F4U-1D with full fuel, two 1,000 lb bombs and a full load of rockets. Then, keeping the gear down, fly around and land it with the same load. When you can manage that, you will not need to ask for training wheels in the future.
My regards,
Widewing
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I know you guys might find it a bit hard, a bit easy to land in a turning, or dead still straight moving CV. So i was thinking maybe add an automatic landing system on CV planes. Sounds good to me idk what you think so post your thought.
CV landing is easy, you just have to go in kinda hard, pull back on the stick, and you are caught by the cables.
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Ya,just like they did in ww2
:lol
CV landing is not the hardest thing to do in the world. Landing with tail hook down and gears down at 120mph is not too hard since slingshaot catches you.
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Took me a while but then got the hang of it. Just keep working on it then it will be natural.
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I agree with Valerio. Something needs to be done about Carrier landings, (and i would add take-offs as well). There's NO WAY anyone can "practice" for having a CV change couse on them while they are taking off, or on final approach. You can't even SEE the carrier the last few seconds before you touch down.. So how do you adjust to a turning carrier you CAN'T SEE ?
The fix is SIMPLE. If a running plane is on the flightdeck.. The Carrier waits to execute any course change until the plane takes off. If a plane drops it's tail hook... the same thing happens. The CV doesn't change course until the plane has landed and shut it's engine off. That's how aircraft operations work on a REAL carrier.
So everybody who wants to change the course of a CV to "UNMASK" a gun on a cruiser or destroyer because all the other guns are occupied.. Will just have to WAIT.
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You can practice this off line. You have complete control of CV waypoints.
I think you can even do this in the TA. Taking off isn't that hard on a turning CV. You just need to make sure auto take-off is off and use liberal aileron and rudder. For landing just make sure you hit teh wire.
cheers,
RTR
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You are defenitely doing something wrong then. I have no trouble seeing the turning carrier. And yes, you can easily practice it. Go offline, plot a mad course for the CV and practice taking off & landing. If I was able to learn it, you will be too.
The fix is SIMPLE. If a running plane is on the flightdeck.. The Carrier waits to execute any course change until the plane takes off. If a plane drops it's tail hook... the same thing happens. The CV doesn't change course until the plane has landed and shut it's engine off. That's how aircraft operations work on a REAL carrier.
The only thing that would be fixed is CV survivability. No way to evade attacking bombers, because there's always someone landing or taking off. Sorry, but the CV is more worth than your plane.
And btw, it's actually not "how aircraft operations work on a real carrier." On a real carrier, it's not the pilots that decide whether the ship is allowed to turn or not. They are told if they are cleared for T/O or landing or not. And I guess every sane CV captain will always put the saftey of the ship above the safety of a single plane ;)
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I wouldnt make it home to benefit from this feature :cry kidding ofcourse... but for the sake of realisim i say no.
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For something so easily "practiced" and "adusted" for... i see DOZENS of planes CRASHING every night trying to land and take off from turning carriers. Some of these pilots may be NEW to carrier operations, but they ALL arn't inexperienced and unpracticed pilots. That bucket just doesn't hold any water. I've heard plenty of people in this game claim they can do all kind of things nobody else seems to be able to reproduce.
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:rofl
Yes, nobody is able to reproduce landings on turning CV's
And yes, sometimes I do crash too, but that's my own fault, usualy for getting careless & sloppy or simply not paying attention.
And again, locking a CV just because some is taking off or landing will quickly put the CV on the bottom of the cartoon ocean. Your enemy SB gunners or bomber pilots will be thankful.
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If the CV is turning dont land, that was a problem in real life too when a CV was under attack, so too bad, why should HTC install some silly auto landing system for folks who have no patience? Some of you guys wont be happy untill AH is some joke with homing bullets and combat auto pilots, so you dont have to strain yourselves.
CV landing is a SKILL, sorry thats "inconveniant".
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For something so easily "practiced" and "adusted" for... i see DOZENS of planes CRASHING every night trying to land and take off from turning carriers. Some of these pilots may be NEW to carrier operations, but they ALL arn't inexperienced and unpracticed pilots. That bucket just doesn't hold any water. I've heard plenty of people in this game claim they can do all kind of things nobody else seems to be able to reproduce.
Taking off and landing with the CV turning isn't especially difficult.
The primary reason guys crash when taking off from a turning CV is ignorance. Yep, ignorance. Fortunately, ignorance can be cured with some simple training. The biggest problem is that many want instant gratification and make little effort to learn. Practice is work and work is to be avoided at all cost. You cannot shortcut the learning curve. Either you take the time to learn all aspects, or you just become another gamer with no life expectancy whatsoever.
One factor not mentioned is that guys who cannot get airborne from a turning CV are equally unlikely to return anyway.
Go offline and practice, or come to the TA and get instruction.
My regards,
Widewing
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Go to TA,there are 2 sepperate areas where you can practice in.
Take control of CV and plot a course,then use whatever CV plane
you want and practice.Maybe even ask for help.
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The fix is SIMPLE
Yeah, don't land on a carrier, or wait until it stops turning.
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Yeah, don't land on a carrier, or wait until it stops turning.
I second that.
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i see DOZENS of planes CRASHING every night trying to land and take off from turning carriers.
You must of been watching me then :D
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I've taken off and landed rather easily on turning carriers.... Heck, I've landed 109's on turning carriers, backed up, rearmed, and taken off again. It's honestly pretty easy once you've got a feel for it.
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If you want to go real life with air operations on a CV, you might as well forget taking off
and landing when you feel like it. Aircraft were launched and recovered in groups, usually with
the battle group turned into the wind.
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The dozens of planes crashing all the time are the noobs that want training wheels, that don't LOOK first to see if the CV is turning or not, and want to world handed to them on a silver platter.
There is NOTHING wrong with the system we have right now for taking off and landing. If you can't manage to get off the deck or back on the deck maybe you should stay away from the CV's as you don't qualify as a Naval Aviator. Go back to flight school and come back when you learn how to fly correctly.
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Exactly Rino. Real Carriers DO NOT make 180 degree course changes while aircraft are TAKING OFF or LANDING. So it isn't the ocean in AH that's cartoonish, it's the carrier planes crashing, smashing into the carrier and plunging into the ocean by the dozens that are UNREALISTIC AND CARTOONISH.
Again. There's NO WAY to practice taking off from a turning carrier and i'm not going to waste my internet time trying to prove to myself someone can. Put 1,500 lbs of bombs on a plane or a 2,000 lb torpedo on a plane and try it just ONCE. You won't need any more PRACTICE than that to learn how to CRASH a plane.
It's not about rudders and ailerons. It's about Cruisers and Destroyers speeding across the bow of a Carrier at 40 knots because the CV is turning while planes are taking off. And watching friendly aircraft smash into their own combat ships. THAT'S CARTOONISH.
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taking off from a turning carrier fully loaded with ord is not a problem. if you can walk and chew gum at the same time, you should be able to handle taking off. :aok
NOT
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Steven, granted carriers IRL do not make course changes while aircraft operations are in progress.
However you conveniently left out the key point of Rhinos' post. Carriers in real life operate with launch and recovery windows outside of which launching and recovery of aircraft unless it is an emergency situation is not possible. Something we do not do in Aces High. In order to allow for continuous carrier operations at will we have a happy compromise, it's called use your own common sense (OMG!).
Now taking off and landing from a turning carrier is nigh on impossible in an American aircraft. I almost never make it off but I've seen it done, Landing is generally not as hard but landing on a turning deck is easy to misjudge. I have done both in Japanese aircraft and seafires.
Unless I'm out of fuel and dead-sticking it in, I'll wait until the carrier stops turning. It's also easy to wait until the carrier stops turning to roll, just look left an right, the wake from the escort vessels will shoe you the way.
Landing is actually not as hard as it seems. You have to fly it in to the deck, line up on the far end of the carrier and maintain a level descent until you hit the deck and you will soon feel the reassuring thump of your wheels on the deck. As soon as you hit push your throttle full forward and hit your WEP in case you miss the wires so you can get back up and go around, if you get the wire you will stop.
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Practice makes perfect; not whining.
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You can't practice dodging a destroyer that comes barrelling across the bow of a CV while you are taking off because some idiot turned the carrier. You're ten feet off the water doing 140 miles an hour and here comes the Destroyer. BAM ! It's OVER. You can play with the rudders and ailerons all you want.. you're goin swimming.
Yes in real life situations CV's suspended air operations while they were under attack and evading. Everybody knows what happened to the returning Japanese planes at Midway. And yes. The pilots were NOT incharge of the CV's evasive maneuvers. Which brings up a good point. Why is that the case in Aces High ?
Like i said. It's a simple fix. If a running plane is on the flight deck, the CV can't be turned. If a plane puts its tailhook down.. The CV can't be turned until the plane is recovered. That way pilots who wanna be admirals arn't screwing up the take offs and landings of other pilots.
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Like i said. It's a simple fix. If a running plane is on the flight deck, the CV can't be turned. If a plane puts its tailhook down.. The CV can't be turned until the plane is recovered. That way pilots who wanna be admirals arn't screwing up the take offs and landings of other pilots.
Instead ignorant wanna-be pilots unwilling to spend a few mins practicing offline do lock the CV and thus sink it because buff attacks can't be evaded anymore. :rofl
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And how would you write the code for this to work?
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And how would you write the code for this to work?
I thought the same exact thing when I read the thread title. Most likely, you couldn't. Too many variables and all that codey stuff. Besides, it would have absolutely no positive influence on the game.
Imagine a commercial...
"Now with the new Auto Carrier Landing System! Landing on a full-speed carrier has never been more simple!"
The squeakers would swarm in overwhelming numbers :rolleyes:
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When you can land on the TA CV, which is always turning, then you can land on anyone. Its just takes practice and patience.
Landing on CVs is actually a fairly easy skill to master. And the training tools, along with the trainers, are already available in-game.
The tools and help to make me better have always been there. Its on me for not using them more.
I'd actually call the CV landing model in the game as very generous.
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Your embellishments to support your cause are just a tad over the top.
You can't practice dodging a destroyer that comes barrelling across the bow of a CV while you are taking off because some idiot turned the carrier.
If you are on the deck and rolling for take off, and they turn the carrier, there is no way that the whole CV group will turn fast enough to put a destroyer directly in your path by the time you reach the end of the ramp. If the carrier was already turning and you spawned onto the deck and then rolled, yes, there could very well be a ship in your path ... but that is the chance that you take if you roll, at that point in a turn.
You're ten feet off the water doing 140 miles an hour and here comes the Destroyer. BAM ! It's OVER. You can play with the rudders and ailerons all you want.. you're goin swimming.
If your 10 ft off the deck at 140 mph on final ... then you truly need more experience at correct aircraft carrier landings. I would surmise at 10 ft off the deck, you are 40-50 too low (at a minimum), unless of course you are trying to land on the fantail. I agree, you can use all the aileron and rudder control at your disposal and it won't do you a lick of good ... but I would add THROTTLE and ELEVATORS into that equation to overcome the problem.
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Exactly Rino. Real Carriers DO NOT make 180 degree course changes while aircraft are TAKING OFF or LANDING. So it isn't the ocean in AH that's cartoonish, it's the carrier planes crashing, smashing into the carrier and plunging into the ocean by the dozens that are UNREALISTIC AND CARTOONISH.
Again. There's NO WAY to practice taking off from a turning carrier and i'm not going to waste my internet time trying to prove to myself someone can. Put 1,500 lbs of bombs on a plane or a 2,000 lb torpedo on a plane and try it just ONCE. You won't need any more PRACTICE than that to learn how to CRASH a plane.
It's not about rudders and ailerons. It's about Cruisers and Destroyers speeding across the bow of a Carrier at 40 knots because the CV is turning while planes are taking off. And watching friendly aircraft smash into their own combat ships. THAT'S CARTOONISH.
So, basically what your saying is, you can't land on carriers, and you don't want to practice and get good at it, so it's the games fault?
:rolleyes:
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Do as I do. Fly a 190A-8 onto the deck wheels up. Make sure to land slightly toward the tower so as you pass it catches the wing thus spinning you down the front half of the deck. If lucky, you will end up with 1/2 your plane hanging over the edge of the deck although I can't guarantee which half.
Although I know this sounds like an amazing feat, it's one I can re-create at will.
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Never mind.
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I know you guys might find it a bit hard, a bit easy to land in a turning, or dead still straight moving CV. So i was thinking maybe add an automatic landing system on CV planes. Sounds good to me idk what you think so post your thought.
Not no, but HECK NO!!
The carrier should bob a weave w/ the motion of the ocean.
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Taking off and landing with the CV turning isn't especially difficult.
The primary reason guys crash when taking off from a turning CV is ignorance. Yep, ignorance. Fortunately, ignorance can be cured with some simple training. The biggest problem is that many want instant gratification and make little effort to learn. Practice is work and work is to be avoided at all cost. You cannot shortcut the learning curve. Either you take the time to learn all aspects, or you just become another gamer with no life expectancy whatsoever.
One factor not mentioned is that guys who cannot get airborne from a turning CV are equally unlikely to return anyway.
Go offline and practice, or come to the TA and get instruction.
My regards,
Widewing
I and the rest of the VF-31 could not agree with you more on that one Widewing.
<S>
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If I of all people can rearm a 262 on a cv anyone can do it.
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You can't practice dodging a destroyer that comes barrelling across the bow of a CV while you are taking off because some idiot turned the carrier. You're ten feet off the water doing 140 miles an hour and here comes the Destroyer. BAM ! It's OVER. You can play with the rudders and ailerons all you want.. you're goin swimming.
Yes in real life situations CV's suspended air operations while they were under attack and evading. Everybody knows what happened to the returning Japanese planes at Midway. And yes. The pilots were NOT incharge of the CV's evasive maneuvers. Which brings up a good point. Why is that the case in Aces High ?
Like i said. It's a simple fix. If a running plane is on the flight deck, the CV can't be turned. If a plane puts its tailhook down.. The CV can't be turned until the plane is recovered. That way pilots who wanna be admirals arn't screwing up the take offs and landings of other pilots.
140mph indicated is plenty to avoid anything during a CV landing. Dodging turning ships is a non-issue if your brain is capable of coping with planning ahead of time (if the ships are already turning) and the very easy stall characteristics of all the CV planes, especialy considering the hook resists pretty brutal landings.
All you have to do is approach gently with flaps out in a controlled descent towards the cables. It sounds like you're blaming the game (which BTW doesn't even simulate pitch and roll of the CV, nor stall departures as slippery as they really were due to wind and aerodynamics) for your inability to hold the plane at a constant speed and heading. That's all it takes.
And in the very few instances where the ships really are unavoidable, well.. "poop happens". If you come in to the CV missing parts or blacking out, that's just bad luck. Lots of real pilots screwed up CV landings.
And a whole CV (and the rest of the TG slaved to the CV's reset) are worth more than a single plane. It'll turn if it has to.
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I agree with Valerio.
You do? :rofl
The fix is SIMPLE. If a running plane is on the flightdeck.. The Carrier waits to execute any course change until the plane takes off. If a plane drops it's tail hook... the same thing happens. The CV doesn't change course until the plane has landed and shut it's engine off.
The consequence is SIMPLE. The carrier is sunk by some lanc because noobs don't want to do some thing that is VERY easy to do, if you have patience and if you practice. Have you ever heard of offline practice? You can control the carrier there, and if you crash, you don't get penalized.
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If I of all people can rearm a 262 on a cv anyone can do it.
You've got that right...
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Just like the majority of the thread has been saying, take some time to practice and you'll get the hang of it. I don't even think about if a cv is turning or not I just put it on the deck ( one way or another ;) ).
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Was rolling a Dhog w/ 100% fuel, rockets, and 2 1,000lbs bombs from the carrier and heard a shrill cry on range vox "Don't TAKE OFF!!! THE CARRIER IS TURNING!!! YOU WILL DIE EVERYTIME!!!"
(sigh)
Bit o' rudder, 2 notches of flaps, and I'm up. "that's what rudder is for" was my reply.
Landing on a turning carrier is simple. Landing on one not turning is amazingly simple.
What KILLS me are people like this thread creator who just refuse to practice anything. If the game was EASY it wouldn't be as much fun. Like I've told Valerio several times already, take six months and practice.
BTW, is anybody gonna bring up givin' the planes just a TOUCH of throttle and rolling backwards so they can take off easier? I never did it, but I recall some people swearing by it to take off from CV's.
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I back up all the time when rearming non carrier planes. Even landed, rolled backwards, rearmed, and took off a 262 on carrier. Practice, practice, practice and it all becomes easy as pie.
Strip
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If your having problems landing on a CV then your missing a few simple concepts. Like WW said the key is practice, training or both.
With a bit of practice its pretty easy to do, here are a few things you can practice...
1) stabalized rate of decent.
If your burying the carrier under the nose then more then likely your glidepath is too shallow. You can easily learn to stabalize a "sink rate" that leaves the nose flat to the horizon and lets you see the carrier just fine. The slower your going the higher you need to hold the nose for level flight. If your decending in controlled flight in a properly configured plane you can see the carrier right up till flareout...and even then you'll be right on top of the deck so you can see the carrier np on front/side view if needed.
2) circular approach
While its very easy to bring a bird straight in with practice using a circular approach is easier. Basically the plane is turning right up till flareout with your view being out the front/side view. Combining this with a correct rate of decent and well trimmed plane makes carrier landings simple. I can land anything on a carrier without using the wires NP. You can hit the wires at 100 IAS or less in any plane in the set with minimal issues. The only plane with any real issue is the 262 since the spool up for the engines is "lagged" and the decent rate less controllable. Its a slightly less recoverable plane...as a general rule I leave a notch of flaps and if I get to steep on the approach I can recover by unloading (releasing back pressure on stick), popping the last notch of flaps and goosing the throttle. If you keep the stick pressure back you'll just maintain a stall and much it into the fantail...
Most botched landings come from a too shallow decent combined with trying to fly the bird nose up at minimal speed. Learn to fly your regular landings on a circular "combat approach" with a higheer rate of decent and carrier landings are a breeze.
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Here's a clip that kind of illustrates what I mean above. This is a carrier landing in an a-20 with both elevators gone. So there is no pitch control. Basically I need to set up a circular approach and get the rate of decent set with throttle and flaps. Once I get the sink rate set I use another notch of flaps to flare the bird out. But if you look at the last 30 seconds or so of approach you wouldnt know that the planes got no elevator input till the hard landing.
http://az-dsl.com/snaphook/justroutine.ahf (http://az-dsl.com/snaphook/justroutine.ahf)
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Like i said. It's a simple fix. If a running plane is on the flight deck, the CV can't be turned. If a plane puts its tailhook down.. The CV can't be turned until the plane is recovered. That way pilots who wanna be admirals arn't screwing up the take offs and landings of other pilots.
So a cv is being used for base attack, and the fight is fierce and has been going on for half an hour, but a set of enemy buffs is seen heading in. Some "wanna be admiral" changes the carrier course so the bombs miss.
End results:
1(normal) - The bombs miss the cv, and people still take off from it while its turning, continuing the attack.
2(waldron) - As the cv is about to turn someone spawns on the flight deck, so the cv is on over ride and continues a straight course. Our hero is rolling down the deck when 12,000lbs of ord smashes into the cv killing it and our hero.
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(http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1782/lso1ju9.png) (http://imageshack.us)
Here's your automatic landing system Junior.
Regards,
Beer Barrel
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(http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1782/lso1ju9.png) (http://imageshack.us)
Here's your automatic landing system Junior.
Regards,
Beer Barrel
Now, that would be nice :) LSO’s rock!
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For something so easily "practiced" and "adusted" for... i see DOZENS of planes CRASHING every night trying to land and take off from turning carriers. Some of these pilots may be NEW to carrier operations, but they ALL arn't inexperienced and unpracticed pilots. That bucket just doesn't hold any water. I've heard plenty of people in this game claim they can do all kind of things nobody else seems to be able to reproduce.
You only see the "crashing" ones...but you don't see the ones that actually get off with ease.
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Did anyone see my message on 200 last night when I took off from a turning CV????
For those that missed it...
SD67 200: OMFG I just took off from a turning CV! HAX!
SO there... it CAN be done!
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Yes. With enough practice you can do all kinds of "Stunts" the average player can not do, that is if you're lucky and you don't slam into a destroyer speeding across the path of the flightdeck because the CVTF is turning. Does that make you smarter than someone else who isn't willing to spend hours and hours of expensive internet time trying to accomplish the same thing when it shouldn't even be necessary. Think about it.
Futhermore, if we're willing to suspend realism for ease of game play in areas like equipment malfunction, radio damage, longer nighttime intervals, dud ordinance, reload times, ect. ect. ect. I don't see where "auto" landings becomes something akin to ruining the game. It sounds a bit hypocritical to me. Especially when you already have "auto" take offs. Which by the way, don't work off a turning CV. Anymore than auto landings would i suppose without some changes in the way CV's operate.
I do have compromise i will suggest that might satisfy both the purists and others. Allow "auto" landings, but simply charge a mission point deduction for using it. The same could be done with "auto" take offs. That way the people who want to practice, practice and practice would be rewarded, and those who just want to start playing without all the B.S. would be accomidated as well.
Seems like a smart compromise for AH to me. Afterall they want to appeal to the LARGEST audience. Not just the purists and people who have enough money they don't have to worry about internet service overage charges.
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Ummmm offline practice= no internet charges!!!
Things are dumbed down enough.
OH and what if your plane is damaged??? auto landing,
would still work??
Geeze,why not just use AI and let the computer do it all for you... :o :o :o
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Does that make you smarter than someone else who isn't willing to spend hours and hours of expensive internet time trying to accomplish the same thing when it shouldn't even be necessary. Think about it.
Absolutely. It shouldn't even take an hour to learn how to land.
Not just the purists and people who have enough money they don't have to worry about internet service overage charges.
As an aside, you logged more than 6 hours, per day, of time in flight last month. This BS about not being able to practice offline due to internet overage charges is so stupid as to not require any more mocking of your ideas. I'm glad you hate this game, and I hope it gives you years of frustration.
Warmest retards,
hub
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takeoff and landing are hardly "stunts", they fall under basic training. an LSO of some kind would be cool though - I always liked the FA-18 Hornet LSO "calling the ball". thinking about it, that game is probably why I always find myself approaching at 10deg even though its not an angled deck :D
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As an aside, you logged more than 6 hours, per day, of time in flight last month.
Warmest retards,
hub
Holy crap! I wish I had that kind of time. Must have spent it all in bombers.
Me? I want LCOS like in the TA as I can't shoot fer s...crap
It would only be fair as other people are good shots.
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How can you log that kind of time and still not be able to land on a CV? even more amazing how do you log that kind of time and still come up with ridiculous posts?! Im blown away!! :noid
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look i can land a b17 sucesfully on a cv { cannot take off again wingspan to big } so you dont need and auto landing
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You can't practice dodging a destroyer that comes barrelling across the bow of a CV while you are taking off because some idiot turned the carrier. You're ten feet off the water doing 140 miles an hour and here comes the Destroyer. BAM ! It's OVER. You can play with the rudders and ailerons all you want.. you're goin swimming.
That has never happened to me or anybody I know. And to get off faster, put off some flaps. I think the hitting the destroyer thing is just a big lie, never heard of it, never happened to me or anyone I know.
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i have hit the CA once. then i learned from my mistake.(something that is lacking in todays world.)
NOT
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I've seen people land on the Cruiser. I do believe it is ultimately a ditch though.
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Cue movie of someone panicking on CV's emergency left turn, and landing safely in the elevator space below the deck.
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I've seen people land on the Cruiser. I do believe it is ultimately a ditch though.
I did it, and its a ditch.