Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: wrag on May 20, 2008, 09:33:44 PM
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Wrag, dude, your fanatical devotion to yelling and screaming for a 109G-10 to be included in-game is... well I was going to say admirable but it's not.
It's fanatical. Beyond logical persuasion.
You're turning this into an attack on me. Look at what I've typed. IF you want to pretend you're in a G-10 we have 2 planes you can do it with and get almost identical results. G-14 below 16k, and K-4 above 16k.
if you want... If not, bug off.
Screaming and ranting for a G-10 based on performance differences is stupid because you openly admit you suck with the 30mm gun, and several folks have pointed out the performance is within a few MPH of aircraft we already have in-game.
You're SAYING it's a performance-based request, then COMPLAINING about existing weaponry, not existing performance.
Stop jumping on my back because you're not getting your "I WANT I WANT" rant.
At least get yer facts straight.
An attack on you?
I guess you may be correct.
Why?
I already told you...............
I've read your statements many times and IMHO you are INCORRECT far too often to be taken seriously.
As to your telling people fly a K4 over 16K and a G14 below 16K?
What? Are you saying we should be able to switch from a K4 to a G14 INFLIGHT?
Might be nice but IMHO I don't think HTC is gonna allow that.
I'll quite happily get off your back when you actually realize I'm not buying your line.
Don't matter to me if it's 50 mph or 25 mph, what matters is the DIFFERENCE in the K4 and the G14 ABOVE 16K.
I've noticed that when you fly the g14 and KEEP it mostly below 16K.
That works fine in the MA MOST of the time.
Me I LIKE high alt fights BUT don't like that 30mm.
NEVER did!
BTW I NEVER WANTED A K4 and I SAID so. Still don't WANT it! I say that cause some dweeb said to me something like you wanted the K4 quite complaining! You remind me of that person.
Are you reading what I've posted?
I don't want a G10 for LOW alt so much as HIGH alt stuff!
I flew the G14 in the scenario DGS and it was a DOG! Wasn't much happier with the K4 and the LIMITATIONS the 30mm places on fighting ponys and p47 at HIGH alt.
The K4 was meant more for BOMBERS then dealing with escort.
I want a plane that CAN better deal with escort.
AND the G10 is that plane!
AND I'm complaining about BOTH performance (G14) and weaponry (K4)!
READ what I posted!
Here I'll repeat it in a manner that PERHAPS you can understand?
The G14 is NOT much good above 16K = PERFORMANCE
The 30mm is not much good UNLESS you get REAL close (under 300 yds?) = WEAPONRY
AND the smart flyers KNOW this and use it AGAINST both the G14 and the K4!
Fighting a 109 above 16K is MUCH easier then it used to be! All your opponent needs to do is split S lots and stay at least 600 from you. The 109 doesn't dive well at any alt. Get the 109 going fast then dive out and come back up a distance away and come back in. Another tactic is to HO the 109 from 1000 to 800 out and DIVE out! MAYBE if the 109 drivers is REALLY GOOD or just lucky you will get hit with that 30mm but usually the 109 takes oil or rad hits and then.............
FIREPOWER! 2 13mm mg's against 4 or 6 or 8 50 cals? Cause hittin with that 30mm is NEARLY PURE luck at over 300 yds.
Try it!
Shut up and try it!
Take a K4 and go find someone like AKDogg and engage em ABOVE 16K OR EVEN BETTER take a G14 up to 20k and engage that same person or someone like him.
NOW I've answered your RANT so do YOU WANNA KEEP THIS GOING?
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For the love of God, give that man his G-10 before he hurts himself or krusty! :devil
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i think what wrag is trying to say is, he wants the G-10. just a guess. :)
NOT
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An attack on you?
I guess you may be correct.
Why?
I already told you...............
I've read your statements many times and IMHO you are INCORRECT far too often to be taken seriously.
As to your telling people fly a K4 over 16K and a G14 below 16K?
What? Are you saying we should be able to switch from a K4 to a G14 INFLIGHT?
Might be nice but IMHO I don't think HTC is gonna allow that.
I'll quite happily get off your back when you actually realize I'm not buying your line.
Don't matter to me if it's 50 mph or 25 mph, what matters is the DIFFERENCE in the K4 and the G14 ABOVE 16K.
I've noticed that when you fly the g14 and KEEP it mostly below 16K.
That works fine in the MA MOST of the time.
Me I LIKE high alt fights BUT don't like that 30mm.
NEVER did!
BTW I NEVER WANTED A K4 and I SAID so. Still don't WANT it! I say that cause some dweeb said to me something like you wanted the K4 quite complaining! You remind me of that person.
Are you reading what I've posted?
I don't want a G10 for LOW alt so much as HIGH alt stuff!
I flew the G14 in the scenario DGS and it was a DOG! Wasn't much happier with the K4 and the LIMITATIONS the 30mm places on fighting ponys and p47 at HIGH alt.
The K4 was meant more for BOMBERS then dealing with escort.
I want a plane that CAN better deal with escort.
AND the G10 is that plane!
AND I'm complaining about BOTH performance (G14) and weaponry (K4)!
READ what I posted!
Here I'll repeat it in a manner that PERHAPS you can understand?
The G14 is NOT much good above 16K = PERFORMANCE
The 30mm is not much good UNLESS you get REAL close (under 300 yds?) = WEAPONRY
AND the smart flyers KNOW this and use it AGAINST both the G14 and the K4!
Fighting a 109 above 16K is MUCH easier then it used to be! All your opponent needs to do is split S lots and stay at least 600 from you. The 109 doesn't dive well at any alt. Get the 109 going fast then dive out and come back up a distance away and come back in. Another tactic is to HO the 109 from 1000 to 800 out and DIVE out! MAYBE if the 109 drivers is REALLY GOOD or just lucky you will get hit with that 30mm but usually the 109 takes oil or rad hits and then.............
FIREPOWER! 2 13mm mg's against 4 or 6 or 8 50 cals? Cause hittin with that 30mm is NEARLY PURE luck at over 300 yds.
Try it!
Shut up and try it!
Take a K4 and go find someone like AKDogg and engage em ABOVE 16K OR EVEN BETTER take a G14 up to 20k and engage that same person or someone like him.
NOW I've answered your RANT so do YOU WANNA KEEP THIS GOING?
dam
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For the love of God, give that man his G-10 before he hurts himself or krusty! :devil
I HOPE HiTech agrees with you! :rock :rock :rock
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I am crazy or didn't we use to have the g10
many versions ago?
<S>
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I am crazy or didn't we use to have the g10
many versions ago?
<S>
Yes. It was removed when the 109's were updated. Many threads about our controversial G-10 can be found. Well maybe, if the BBS didnt eat them. :confused:
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What does HTC have against the 109? It's the only aircraft with variants that I've seen them remove. They did it to the 109 in warbirds, too, way back in 1.08 or something; they replaced the G-2 with a G-6 and an F-4. Same basic idea and it still stinks.
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Looking at the ENY of LW iron, I'd say you're wacked if you think
HTC has something against them.
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Rino's right.
Wrag's blowing things way out or proportion, especially with his decision to make this a personal thing against me.
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Looking at the ENY of LW iron, I'd say you're wacked if you think
HTC has something against them.
Non-sequitur. Your comment has nothing to say about the fact that HT has removed a 109 from the lineup twice and has never done that to any other aircraft type.
Rino's right.
Wrag's blowing things way out or proportion, especially with his decision to make this a personal thing against me.
It is unfortunate when debates like these become peronsal, and I wish they wouldn't. With all due respect, I think wrag is frustrated because those who defend HTC's removal of an aircraft that was produced in the thousands are stuck in a thought-box that justifies the absurd and lack the imagination to think their way out of it. :D
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Not an expert (sorry, experten :)) on the 109's but my understanding was the 109G10 had essentially the same performance as the 109K4 that we have. So the argument is really that of what the available armament should be?
The old line up was the E4, F4, G2, G6, G10
The new line up is the E4, F4, G2, G6, G14, K4 correct?
Seems that even though one was removed (to my knowledge a first) two were put in it's place. Maybe if I new more about the different variants I'd see the problem more clearly but it doesn't seem to me that there's any sort of anti-109 agenda in place.
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Let's not overlook the main point:
What could possibly justify the removal of any aircraft from the planeset? Imagine the moaning and gnashing of teeth if any spitfire were removed and replaced with 2 others... :noid
Between the G-10 and K-4, performance was different (a little bit slower), armament was different e.g. MG-151 instead of Mk 108, and ordinance was different e.g. a bomb or underwing gondolas. I don't know if the G-10 was ever fitted with underwing air-air rockets, but it's doubtful.
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An attack on you?
I guess you may be correct.
Why?
I already told you...............
I've read your statements many times and IMHO you are INCORRECT far too often to be taken seriously.
As to your telling people fly a K4 over 16K and a G14 below 16K?
What? Are you saying we should be able to switch from a K4 to a G14 INFLIGHT?
Might be nice but IMHO I don't think HTC is gonna allow that.
I'll quite happily get off your back when you actually realize I'm not buying your line.
Don't matter to me if it's 50 mph or 25 mph, what matters is the DIFFERENCE in the K4 and the G14 ABOVE 16K.
I've noticed that when you fly the g14 and KEEP it mostly below 16K.
That works fine in the MA MOST of the time.
Me I LIKE high alt fights BUT don't like that 30mm.
NEVER did!
BTW I NEVER WANTED A K4 and I SAID so. Still don't WANT it! I say that cause some dweeb said to me something like you wanted the K4 quite complaining! You remind me of that person.
Are you reading what I've posted?
I don't want a G10 for LOW alt so much as HIGH alt stuff!
I flew the G14 in the scenario DGS and it was a DOG! Wasn't much happier with the K4 and the LIMITATIONS the 30mm places on fighting ponys and p47 at HIGH alt.
The K4 was meant more for BOMBERS then dealing with escort.
I want a plane that CAN better deal with escort.
AND the G10 is that plane!
AND I'm complaining about BOTH performance (G14) and weaponry (K4)!
READ what I posted!
Here I'll repeat it in a manner that PERHAPS you can understand?
The G14 is NOT much good above 16K = PERFORMANCE
The 30mm is not much good UNLESS you get REAL close (under 300 yds?) = WEAPONRY
AND the smart flyers KNOW this and use it AGAINST both the G14 and the K4!
Fighting a 109 above 16K is MUCH easier then it used to be! All your opponent needs to do is split S lots and stay at least 600 from you. The 109 doesn't dive well at any alt. Get the 109 going fast then dive out and come back up a distance away and come back in. Another tactic is to HO the 109 from 1000 to 800 out and DIVE out! MAYBE if the 109 drivers is REALLY GOOD or just lucky you will get hit with that 30mm but usually the 109 takes oil or rad hits and then.............
FIREPOWER! 2 13mm mg's against 4 or 6 or 8 50 cals? Cause hittin with that 30mm is NEARLY PURE luck at over 300 yds.
Try it!
Shut up and try it!
Take a K4 and go find someone like AKDogg and engage em ABOVE 16K OR EVEN BETTER take a G14 up to 20k and engage that same person or someone like him.
NOW I've answered your RANT so do YOU WANNA KEEP THIS GOING?
DAMN Krusty just got pwnt :noid :noid :noid
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Imagine the moaning and gnashing of teeth if any spitfire were removed and replaced with 2 others... :noid
You mean like removing the belt fed, hi boost Mk.V and replacing it with the drum fed, anemic boost one?
Quit whining.
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Quit whining.
Be polite. It doesn't bring credit on our community when spirited yet rational arguments are labeled "whining." In fact, the all-purpose "whining" insult is frequently used at this bbs in place of counter-argument simply because many are not in the habit of giving one. This isn't high-school. Use your reason to convince a thinking adult or keep your unhelpful comments to yourself.
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gavagai in terms of gameplay and variety HTC's decision was crucial to make the 109's MORE popular.
With the 109 G10 you had a variant every average flyer could agree with. Big guns, lots of ammo and UBER speed/climb (see la7).
If you got lusche in here to compare the amount of usage of the 109 planeset I bet you more than 60% would have gone straight to the G10 without any thought to the other 109's. The same could be said for the spit 16 of course.
I just think having two different planes is more beneficial than having one UBER and I know thats what your getting at.
Wrag needs to get some practice with the 30mm and after flying the G14 / K4 this last week I had no problems in getting used to hitting with the tater and the G14's firepower is just devastating.
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Be polite. It doesn't bring credit on our community when spirited yet rational arguments are labeled "whining." In fact, the all-purpose "whining" insult is frequently used at this bbs in place of counter-argument simply because many are not in the habit of giving one. This isn't high-school. Use your reason to convince a thinking adult or keep your unhelpful comments to yourself.
Hello pot... this is kettle... you are black.
Imagine the moaning and gnashing of teeth if any spitfire were removed and replaced with 2 others... :noid
Your implications with the above are quite transparent. Ohh and as for your smug keep comments to yourself BS. I refer you to line 2 of my sig.
Lemme point that out for you.
What you should be doing is petitioning HT to make the offline drones give out polite replies....lazs
Edit : Nice evade of my point. However a whine about people wanting people to stop whining is not a valid retort.
Try again champ. :aok
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Bronk, you are incorrigible. Almost nothing you have said above is relevant to the discussion at hand. Read what bruv had to say for insight on how to disagree with someone and at the same time display rationality and civility. Trying to construe the spitfire comment as though I accused someone of whining is about the least charitable way possible to read me, and if you interpret me uncharitably, you're not to be taken seriously.
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gavagai in terms of gameplay and variety HTC's decision was crucial to make the 109's MORE popular.
With the 109 G10 you had a variant every average flyer could agree with. Big guns, lots of ammo and UBER speed/climb (see la7).
If you got lusche in here to compare the amount of usage of the 109 planeset I bet you more than 60% would have gone straight to the G10 without any thought to the other 109's. The same could be said for the spit 16 of course.
I just think having two different planes is more beneficial than having one UBER and I know thats what your getting at.
Wrag needs to get some practice with the 30mm and after flying the G14 / K4 this last week I had no problems in getting used to hitting with the tater and the G14's firepower is just devastating.
So now is your argument that a G-10 would be too "uber?" Or is it that it's more beneficial for the game not to have the G-10? Correct me if I'm wrong or clarify your statement, please. When you speak of the 109G-10 or G-14 having devastating firepower, you must be talking about them with the Mk-108 loaded, and we already know what the drawbacks are to that.
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Just give us the G10 and The 410 and everyone is happy.
(by everyone I mean me, and thats what REALLY matters) :D
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It was to Uber!
I remember looking back and seeing a 109 homing in on me, i'd bust a move, they would blow past and go orbital. Think more turnable Tempest with bigger guns :D.
if the icon read 109 you can bet 8/10 times it would read G10!
Im not dead set against seeing it re-appear by all means put it back in and slap a 20 point perk and give it eny 5. My point is that with 2 different planes there isn't a need to perk or reduce the ENY for it. The 109's have a reputation for not being "easy mode" planes and I think quite a few luftwobblers take pride in that.
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Rino's right.
Wrag's blowing things way out or proportion, especially with his decision to make this a personal thing against me.
I TOLD you while we were ONLINE, via VOX, flying in the SAME area, it was NOT personal!
I object to your SEEMING attitude that YOU are the ONLY person that SEEMS to know anything about WWII aircraft, and your REPEATED claim that similar is the SAME!
Similar means NOT the same!
K4 fastest 450+ at alt, G10 close 425 but about 20-25 mph slower, then the G14 at 408?
( I have yet to get a G14 to do 408 at 16K which is it's reported best alt? )
( If you or anyone can get a G14 to 408 at 16k PLEASE FILM IT, the entire attempt and post the film? )
( I consider any diving, shallow or otherwise, to get to the speed of 408 as NOT being accurate performance! )
Not blowing anything anywhere.
Just tired of your B.S. Krusty thats all.
You don't want a G10, fine you said that.
Now everyone knows..... OK?
OTHERS however SEEM to want a G10.........
How about you allow others their OPINION?
How about you allow others to put in a REQUEST?
What is YOUR PROBLEM?
Similar is NOT the SAME!
Lets you and me go up above 18K or 20K you in a G14 (with 30mm) and me in say a pony or maybe a Ki84? Then again maybe I'll fly a G6?
And the one that gets shot down or DIVES below 16K loses?
What do you think your chances are going to be?
The G14 is sorta OK down LOW alt. The K4 is fine at any alt but that STOOPID 30mm is a real turn off to really GOOD fights!
Lately I've been flyin the G6 and keeping UP with, and shooting down, G14s OTD and at alt.... PERFORMANCE is VERY CLOSE with these 2 planes. Perhaps the G6 accelerates a tad faster then the g14 OTD?
READ.........
http://members.shaw.ca/soda_p/Bf109K4.htm
this part in particular...
"If jumped by a K-4 be very aware of the firepower and make your defensive maneuvers erratic and unpredictable. Many very good pilots fly the K-4 and won’t miss simple defensive maneuvers."
Stick stirring EXTREMES :rofl
My point is the with a G10 added, that HAS a 20mm hub option, would be a WONDERFUL thing! (then it would be......try your stick stirring now DWEEB!)
Or allow the 20mm hub option on the K4 (ya right...)
Now.......... how about you find something else to do and leave those that WANT the G10 to discuss such things and PERHAPS persuade, plead, BRIBE???? HiTech and company?
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The 109's have a reputation for not being "easy mode" planes and I think quite a few luftwobblers take pride in that.
Good point :)
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gavagai in terms of gameplay and variety HTC's decision was crucial to make the 109's MORE popular.
With the 109 G10 you had a variant every average flyer could agree with. Big guns, lots of ammo and UBER speed/climb (see la7).
If you got lusche in here to compare the amount of usage of the 109 planeset I bet you more than 60% would have gone straight to the G10 without any thought to the other 109's. The same could be said for the spit 16 of course.
I just think having two different planes is more beneficial than having one UBER and I know thats what your getting at.
Wrag needs to get some practice with the 30mm and after flying the G14 / K4 this last week I had no problems in getting used to hitting with the tater and the G14's firepower is just devastating.
Who you fightin with those?
IMHO you are a pretty good stick soooooo...............
You see much of this..............
"If jumped by a K-4 be very aware of the firepower and make your defensive maneuvers erratic and unpredictable. Many very good pilots fly the K-4 and won’t miss simple defensive maneuvers."
Quote takin from here....
http://members.shaw.ca/soda_p/Bf109K4.htm
Let's you and me go up over 18K :aok
You in a 30mm G14 or K4 and me in anything I want, BUT a PERKED ride, and see who comes down first? :O
Hmmm how about the same offer I made Krusty?
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how many fights occur over 18k in the MA? very few.
If you would like I'll fight you.
The only perked ride that would outmatch a K4 would be the spit 14 and maybe a TA152 or pony even higher.
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I would like a G10 because I like Me 109's but as the game is now having a K ( High Altitude Interceptor ) and G 14 all around fighter doesn't matter all that much. I think the German's were happy with whatever equipment they could get. The pro's had first call on new equipment and the newbies got what was left. Toward the end I guess a G14 or G10 were better because of the multiple missions asked of German aircraft.
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Bronk, you are incorrigible. Almost nothing you have said above is relevant to the discussion at hand. Read what bruv had to say for insight on how to disagree with someone and at the same time display rationality and civility. Trying to construe the spitfire comment as though I accused someone of whining is about the least charitable way possible to read me, and if you interpret me uncharitably, you're not to be taken seriously.
And yet no comparison and contrast of the removal Mk V VS the G-10. Yup folks we have another tap dancer. :aok
Just so ya know Fred Astaire I'm not apposed to reintroducing the G-10. What I'd like to know is.... Wasn't the K-4 basically the standardization of the G-10 model? And if so, what model of the G-10 do you reintroduce?
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Rino's right.
Krusty...
The above quote would definitely call your sanity into question. :aok
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And yet no comparison and contrast of the removal Mk V VS the G-10. Yup folks we have another tap dancer. :aok
Did we even mention the Mk V in this thread? No. Some argue with logic, others just use name calling like 12 year olds.
Just so ya know Fred Astaire I'm not apposed to reintroducing the G-10. What I'd like to know is.... Wasn't the K-4 basically the standardization of the G-10 model? And if so, what model of the G-10 do you reintroduce?
And after giving me such a hard time, now you admit that you need to know more about the topic to make a meaningful contribution. Wow. :confused:
The K-4 was a standardization of the G-10, but the K-4 had the 605DCM engine and used higher octane c3 fuel (~2000hp), while the G-10 used the 605DBM or DM engine with b4 fuel (~1800hp). Some G-10s were also produced with the 605AS engine with the larger supercharger of the DB603, and were designated G-10/AS.
Like other Gustavs, the G-10 was sometimes equipped to carry bombs or underwing gondolas, while the K-4 was a pure interceptor.
Lastly, the G10 saw service with either the Mk-108 30mm or the MG-151 20mm cannon. If it were reintroduced to AH, players could choose like they already do with the G-14.
One of the things that drives wrag crazy is the lack of the G-10 for scenarios, and he has a point that should be taken seriously; while it is true that most 109s in service at the end of the war were Gustavs, they did not all have the performance of the G-14. Specifically, where the G-14 lags at altitudes above 20k ft, a huge number of Gustavs were G-14/AS or G-10 variants with better high altitude performance. Representing this distribution in a scenario with only the K-4 and G-14 will always be open to criticism, and rightly so.
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You brought up the spitfire removal comment not I. Now care to keep dancing or.....
Edit:Ohh and what engine would you use for the G-10 then?
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You brought up the spitfire removal comment not I. Now care to keep dancing or.....
Edit:Ohh and what engine would you use for the G-10 then?
No, I don't want to see a spitfire removed. I haven't even begun to consider which mark of the spitfire series compares to the G-10.
I would let HTC decide which engine the G-10 would have, but whichever one it had before would be fine with me.
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No, I don't want to see a spitfire removed. I haven't even begun to consider which mark of the spitfire series compares to the G-10.
I would let HTC decide which engine the G-10 would have, but whichever one it had before would be fine with me.
Your not getting it Anax. Just like the G10 being removed and replaced with the K4. The MkV was replaced with a lesser version. My point was we don't see monthly bring back the old Mk V threads. Unlike the annual bring back the G10 threads.
Edit: And if there was a monthly bring back the old Mk.V thread. Do you know what you'd find in it?
I do, it'd go something like this. Hey ezmoder just fly the Mk VIII/XVI blahh balahh blahh.
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Your not getting it Anax. Just like the G10 being removed and replaced with the K4. The MkV was replaced with a lesser version. My point was we don't see monthly bring back the old Mk V threads. Unlike the annual bring back the G10 threads.
Edit: And if there was a monthly bring back the old Mk.V thread. Do you know what you'd find in it?
I do, it'd go something like this. Hey ezmoder just fly the Mk VIII/XVI blahh balahh blahh.
I was unaware that the Mk V was replaced with a lesser version. If that's why the spitfire remark set you off so badly... it's starting to make sense. I wish you had told me that right off the bat.
Regardless, for the sake of consistency no aircraft should ever be removed from the planeset. What an unfortunate backwards step. :uhoh
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Take a K4 and go find someone like AKDogg and engage em ABOVE 16K OR EVEN BETTER take a G14 up to 20k and engage that same person or someone like him.
That be tuff to do as I seldom go above 15k uless i know I going into out #'d odds, like 3:1 odds.