Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: McLovin1 on May 25, 2008, 08:19:30 PM
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A dogfighting school would own all.
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We have a full official Training corps, and we have clinics hosted by Trainers on occassion.........as well if you read the front page of the Trainers offical website you will see that there is an Academy in the works......
and anyone can ask for 1 on 1 training upon request via email......
on another topic, McLovin1, what is your ingame gameid? and do you know the following?
have you learned your plane's performance characteristics yet? do you know your planes flight envelope? do you know all your BFM's? do you understand SA? do you understand Energy management? can you judge another planes E - State?
can you follow an opponent flying in different viewing directions without looking forward view at all and keep it out of the terraferma?
there is alot to learn before jumping into advanced training........
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We do, it's called the main arena..sink or swim. :O Dualing arena and training arenas like TequilaChaser says, a great place to learn.
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"as well if you read the front page of the Trainers offical website you will see that there is an Academy in the works......" T.C.
yes and my new documentary will be titled:
"aces high: the top gun graduates"
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7646/b24hardlandingdc4.th.jpg) (http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b24hardlandingdc4.jpg)
click to see full size.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Dualing arena <...> a great place to learn.
I couldn't disagree more about that one. After spending some time in there tonight practicing in a different ride I had to go back to the Main Arenas to escape some of the most dweebiest behavior I've ever seen. :P
Dueling Arena's gone down fast since 8-player closed and the freeloaders got accounts.
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Um, Mclovin, many of the skilled stick in this game is are almost incredibly enthusiastic about teaching and amazingly generous with their free time. :aok
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"as well if you read the front page of the Trainers offical website you will see that there is an Academy in the works......" T.C.
yes and my new documentary will be titled:
"aces high: the top gun graduates"
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7646/b24hardlandingdc4.th.jpg) (http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b24hardlandingdc4.jpg)
The five guys who died in that accident probably wouldn't think that image was particularly funny.
click to see full size.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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A dogfighting school would own all.
WW@ Raf pilots had 2weeks of training if that then tangled with luftwaffa :rock
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Um, Mclovin, many of the skilled stick in this game is are almost incredibly enthusiastic about teaching and amazingly generous with their free time. :aok
So true and not just the training corps. BnZ himself is one of those that is most generous with his time in trying to help this rotten pilot attempt to get better. As is his squad CO, Lambo. They have spent hours with me in the TA in the last month alone AND BnZ has probably spent hours writing emails that answer questions I think of between training sessions.
A very public thank you to BnZ and Lambo for the help they have given me. Somehow I doubt they really want it though. Modest folks...
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<snip>
on another topic, McLovin1, what is your ingame gameid?
<snip>
Might be mclovinh, saw one of them flying the other day.
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A dogfighting school would own all.
Go into the training arena and ask for some help. A lot of people will give you their time so long as you are polite and respectful. Something that helped me a lot recently was playing offline missions. US Ranger and Baumer have put together some really good ones that helped me with SA, gunnery, and throttle control. The nice thing about the offline missions is you can get in a 10 to 20 minute practice session any time you want.
Also TequilaChaser has it correct. Go to the trainers webpage and see if you can set up a time with a trainer.
Good luck
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Forget "dogfighting". Flyers who dogfight (especially solo, without a wingman) are just sitting ducks. If you have to resort to dogfighting to stay alive... you botched picking your target in the first place. Dogfighting is a maneuver of last resort. If you don't ENTER an engagement ALREADY IN a position of advantage, you really shouldn't be engaging the enemy to begin with.
For instance. The target you're looking for is some guy isolated from his friends. The kind of guy who likes flying over the top of inexperienced pilots who are under their own flak VULCHING their own field. You come in at 4 thousand feet above this guy diving on him out of the sun and blow him out of the air. He's fixated on the half a dozen vulchers under him. I love this tactic because it has the added benefit of pissing off the vulchers who were hoping for a dogfight where they could run and hide under their own flak when things get tough.
What if you miss ? Or you only damage the other guys plane ? You do what any REAL fighter pilot would do. You use your dive energy to climb back up to a safe altitude and you fly home to get more bullets. You don't resort to a dogfight.
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Forget "dogfighting". Flyers who dogfight (especially solo, without a wingman) are just sitting ducks. If you have to resort to dogfighting to stay alive... you botched picking your target in the first place. Dogfighting is a maneuver of last resort. If you don't ENTER an engagement ALREADY IN a position of advantage, you really shouldn't be engaging the enemy to begin with.
For instance. The target you're looking for is some guy isolated from his friends. The kind of guy who likes flying over the top of inexperienced pilots who are under their own flak VULCHING their own field. You come in at 4 thousand feet above this guy diving on him out of the sun and blow him out of the air. He's fixated on the half a dozen vulchers under him. I love this tactic because it has the added benefit of pissing off the vulchers who were hoping for a dogfight where they could run and hide under their own flak when things get tough.
What if you miss ? Or you only damage the other guys plane ? You do what any REAL fighter pilot would do. You use your dive energy to climb back up to a safe altitude and you fly home to get more bullets. You don't resort to a dogfight.
If this is the sum total view of how to play this game and engage in air to air combat then someone will miss out on a lot this game has to offer.
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And if you follow ^^^^^^^^ that advice, your're dead meat everytime you are surprised by an enemy with more E. Because you "forgot" dogfighting, you aren't able to fight yourself out of a disadvantageous situation.
Also you absolutely have to stay away from many fun airplanes that just happen to suck at BnZ.
BTW, what's your ingame handle, Stephen?
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You can always tell the guys who spend time in the DA and/or TA. Even with every advantage on them they somehow find a way to get on your 6. Thats what "learning to dogfight" does for you.
Stephen you think we spend all that money for our jet fighter pilots to Top Gun, and other advanced training, in order to learn how to dogfight, for nothing?
I had my arse handed to me tonight by a guy in a 15 eny Hellcat, I was in a 5 eny LA-7, because he knew how to dogfight better then me. He used the strengths of his aircraft better then I did mine. Even tho I had alt and speed on him he still used his E better then I.
Your new to this game right? Then dont fool yourself. The most dangerous guys in this game are the great dog-fighters. Ive seen em wiggle around with 1/2 dozen cons slicing on them in something ridiculous like an early zero or an FM2. Its like trying to catch a oiled pig.
One reason my scores always suck is I tangle with them no matter what. You aint going to learn nothing by HO'ing once, in your 400 mph LA, and then running.
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Forget "dogfighting". Flyers who dogfight (especially solo, without a wingman) are just sitting ducks. If you have to resort to dogfighting to stay alive... you botched picking your target in the first place. Dogfighting is a maneuver of last resort. If you don't ENTER an engagement ALREADY IN a position of advantage, you really shouldn't be engaging the enemy to begin with.
For instance. The target you're looking for is some guy isolated from his friends. The kind of guy who likes flying over the top of inexperienced pilots who are under their own flak VULCHING their own field. You come in at 4 thousand feet above this guy diving on him out of the sun and blow him out of the air. He's fixated on the half a dozen vulchers under him. I love this tactic because it has the added benefit of pissing off the vulchers who were hoping for a dogfight where they could run and hide under their own flak when things get tough.
What if you miss ? Or you only damage the other guys plane ? You do what any REAL fighter pilot would do. You use your dive energy to climb back up to a safe altitude and you fly home to get more bullets. You don't resort to a dogfight.
It's precisely this type of attitude that has brought a bit of a decline to the game.
For a n00b, you attempt to speak with a lot of authority around here. You're unwilling to learn to take off from/land on turning CV's and you promote only fighting from an advantage in every post. Then, you say that fighting from a disadvantage will only get you killed. You are SO wrong.
I spent all of last camp dogfighting. I had over 4.5 K/D and over 1.5 K/S and I'm not among the top sticks by any means. How are you doing?
As stated above, if you don't want to "fight" you're going to miss out on the best part of this game, but to each their own. You'll continue to be timid gun fodder for the best sticks.
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Some of the most satisfying fights that I have ever had come from being at a disadvantage the more of a disadvantage the more gratifying it is when you win.
Do I get shot down a lot? Sure, but who cares. I don't really die, and I get a new plane every time I up.
Just for the record when I'm not flying with my squad I'm flying solo without a wingman. I'm also usually flying on the side with fewest numbers.
stephon waldron if all you do is cherry pick, and vulch then you will never get much out of this game.
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if all you do is cherry pick, and vulch then you will never get much out of this game.
They'll get exactly what they want but will remain timid and will make Sesame Street characters look aggressive. Think of everyday in the main arena as training and train as you fight.
I respect the pilot that attempts to mix it up, rather than the 'One pass, haul a**' pilot in AH.
(now in scenarios, that is another discussion altogether but that is 8-10 hours a year)
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Rich,
I disagree with you on two counts:
First, about 99% of the DA pilots sit at 20k in fast rides and do nothing but pick or gang-bang, or HO and spray at you from 2k out. It's very rare I get into any sort of 1v1 that lasts more than a turn or two, and I actually have an easier time finding a good, even fight in the Main Arena than in the DA dweebery (I think I said before that DA is where all the 8-player freeloaders went because they can't cut it in the Mains).
Second, the FM-2 ain't ridiculous. :P
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The DA has really gotten worse.. A squaddie who had been deployed and otherwise not playing AH in years logged on a few months back and couldn't make sense of the timidity of most of the players in there.
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Rich,
I disagree with you on two counts:
First, about 99% of the DA pilots sit at 20k in fast rides and do nothing but pick or gang-bang, or HO and spray at you from 2k out. It's very rare I get into any sort of 1v1 that lasts more than a turn or two, and I actually have an easier time finding a good, even fight in the Main Arena than in the DA dweebery (I think I said before that DA is where all the 8-player freeloaders went because they can't cut it in the Mains).
Second, the FM-2 ain't ridiculous. :P
I Refused to DA for long time because of this, if certain veteran pilots wanted to go, by all means im willing to learn anything I can. But for everyday squeaker to scream DA I refuse on grounds half them dont know what they are doing and its rather pointless.
I always say to everyone best things to learn in training arena are a few rules:
1) Situational Awareness, Even when your the lone con, behind someone always check your 6 because its the one you "didnt see" that gets you. Knowing whats around you, who has what advantage ( for example a 190 5k above you) or spitfire co-alt infront at 6k out in front of you - who would be a bigger threat in the next 30 seconds?
2) Know your ride - inside and out, most guys say 190a8 sucks it cant fight or 109 sucks it cant fight, simply overload the plane with fuel and guns thinking HEY!! big guns means better plane, then wonder why they cant even dogfight bombers. Learn what rides can do what, speed, fuel, turn ability, snapshots
3) Biggest killer in new players - refusing to learn to dogfight, Boom and Zoom might be an easy tactic to learn since it offers the safest tactic of them all: Get lots of alt, and speed and take one pass and run. You will never learn to fight like this, However I ways state learn 2 rides:
Something like a Spitfire 8 for dogfight training, and lets say a Fw190d9 for BnZ training. This way a player can learn 2 solid planes, and its abilities vs other rides. And if the player gets good enough he can dogfight in the 190d9 and BnZ in the spitfire.
All depends what you want to get out of this game.
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Most of this ground has been pretty well chewed over...
1) crawl, walk, run
Before you can dogfight you need to be able to control your plane at unusual attitudes, high AoA and in a stall without looking "in" the cockpit. When you can keep your eyes on the other guy 100% of the time in a fight then your ready for prime time.
2) BFM & applied concepts
While doing the "pilot stuff" is essential to win a 1 on 1 with a seasoned "ace" the vast majority of a "dog fight" is really "applied BFM". Your managing relative E state, AOT (angle off Tail) and other fundementals with the intent of either maintaining or achieving an exploitable advantage. In my experience an awful lot of fights are lost because one guy is busy "dogfighting" himself into a losing hand.
3) Aggression is a state of mind
One constant among the "uber" sticks is the total comfort level engaging from an "inferior" position. While they may be defensive they are thinking offense and entirely focused on killing you, not "avoiding" you. Two famous quotes sum up air combat IMO. "Better a mig on my 6 then no mig at all" & "there are two types of aircraft-fighters & targets".
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Rich,
I disagree with you on two counts:
First, about 99% of the DA pilots sit at 20k in fast rides and do nothing but pick or gang-bang, or HO and spray at you from 2k out. It's very rare I get into any sort of 1v1 that lasts more than a turn or two, and I actually have an easier time finding a good, even fight in the Main Arena than in the DA dweebery (I think I said before that DA is where all the 8-player freeloaders went because they can't cut it in the Mains).
Second, the FM-2 ain't ridiculous. :P
I know it aint. But to the BnZ, high speed, type it is.
I never have fought in the DA but its still a surprise to me the same kind od dweebery exists there as in the MAs. It really shouldnt surprise me, not after going in once and seeing some nitwit had hit a bunch of Dars. :huh Why would anyone go into the DA and take out Dars?
It seems the dweebery has steadily increased in the last 6 mos. At least it seems that way to me.
Now there are some BnZ's who actually come to fight. I wouldnt call all BnZer's Dweebs. They are using the strengths of their airplanes and some dont run at first site of a co-alt con.
Im still a little surprised the same dweebery exists in the DA as in the MA however. I thought the entire idea of the arena was for 1 on 1 dogfighting.
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Forget "dogfighting". Flyers who dogfight (especially solo, without a wingman) are just sitting ducks. If you have to resort to dogfighting to stay alive... you botched picking your target in the first place. Dogfighting is a maneuver of last resort. If you don't ENTER an engagement ALREADY IN a position of advantage, you really shouldn't be engaging the enemy to begin with.
Look down Johnny. See that little plane way down there? Dive on him at 500 mph with guns blazing. You will be a great fighter pilot. If he turns or does anything, Run Johnny, Run like your hair is on fire and your butt is catching. Get 6K away from the dangerous man. Then climb Johnny. Climb to 28k Johnny. Remember Johnny, you are a great fighter pilot. You will be respected by all!
Or you could just go to a Horde capped field and shoot planes on the runway to demonstrate your prowess in a combat plane.
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And stick stirrers? Or even worse "stick jerkers". I just killed somone who must have been at home sitting in front of his computer jerking his stick every which way he could like he was.....well...you get my meaning. Finally he jerked his way right into the ground.
I dont get it. Whats the fun of flying these planes in ways completely impossible in actual combat?
I'd rather learn actual dogfight techniques, and fly the aircraft in historically correct fashion, then resort to video game dweebery. Even if it means getting shot down.
I mean this kid must have been jerking that stick like a madman for about 3 mins. :lol I should have filmed it.
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I mean this kid must have been jerking that stick like a madman for about 3 mins. :lol I should have filmed it.
Sounds like Doom's 190 :t
I take additional pleasure out of sitting in behind and not shooting, just fly behind them and watch. They will either crash, get controls stole or end up being a very easy kill.
One thing that does annoy me is the way red outs do not fully red out like black outs do. I'm no expert in what would happen in reality but im sure if something negative G'ed for an extended period, whilst flying really fast, their guts/brains would be all over the cockpit.
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That's already modeled. Easiest way to do it is in the 163.
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What's that crazy floppy move all the n00bs try where they just start spinning and flipping about?
Anyway, I was on the 6 of an La one day when he tried this. Oops, I guess no one told him you had to be more than 500' off the deck to try it :rofl
On that note, if you are a n00b the only thing that move is going to do for you is put your plane out of control for a brief period. Any smart stick with simply cut throttle and fire into the center of your rotation. I've gotten several kills this way recently. I LOVE that "move".
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If you don't ENTER an engagement ALREADY IN a position of advantage, you really shouldn't be engaging the enemy to begin with.
I gotta call BS on this one...what is a "position of disadvantage"? Having more alt and energy is a position of disadvantage if handled improperly. I'm not advocating making yourself into gang-pick bait at the first opportunity, but jeez man, sometimes its wortwhile to give the other guy a chance to make a fatal mistake before you bug out.
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Go into DA. Challenge someone with a lot of sorties. After he kills you have him tell you what mistakes you made. He's likely smug enough to pour his wealth of knowledge on you.
Being killed and told why you died is the best dogfighting school there is.
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Forget "dogfighting". Flyers who dogfight (especially solo, without a wingman) are just sitting ducks.
Wanna bet ??? I myself live for the dogfight .. I start from the "disadvantage" and I have ways to turn it to my advantage ... Sitting ducks .. maybe ... but its usually the 4th man that comes sneaking into a 3 vs 1 and ruins a good fight cause they don't know anything but BnZ or spray n pray ho ho's... even worse is the guy you kill with the wingy and a pile of buddys that reups and whacks ya right at the end of a beautiful clean the sky
snarly dogfight ... (its damn didn't I already send this guy to hell ... what is he doing back here so soon kinda thing)
Flying with a Wingy ... well guess what .. one of the pair is usually the "bait"/ Setup guy . and the other is the evil killer .
The best sticks i've known are ussually the low n slow putt putts .. and know win or lose .. we are having fun.