Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Toad on June 12, 2008, 10:12:13 AM
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What the heck is going on up there? This is too crazy to be believed.
Mark Steyn is on trial before a "human rights tribunal" in BC. Why?
In the Steyn case, what the Canadian Islamic Congress is objecting to are quotations Steyn used. They are quotes of what Muslim leaders have said. So the purported grievance is that a writer is quoting one of their fellow religionists, and that quote (though true) might in the minds of those ideologues staffing these tribunals expose someone to hatred, even though in fact there is not a scrap of evidence that this has actually happened.
This is bizzaro world. It gets worse. It would appear that no one has ever been found not guilty by one of these tribunals. Sort of an amazing record, isn't it?
Weird things in the Northland, eh?
That same year, the city of Kelowna, B.C., issued a proclamation for Gay and Lesbian Day, while omitting the word “pride.” A complaint was lodged against mayor Walter Gray and three years later, the British Columbia Human Rights Tribunal found Gray violated the province’s human rights code, because the exclusion of the word pride was “tantamount to a public insult, one which is mean-spirited, short-sighted, and damaging to positive, respectful relations between all people.” Gray responded by refusing to declare city proclamations, period. He was later re-elected with over 95 per cent of the vote.
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Well no one likes canadians. Now we have a reason. :aok
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This is bizzaro world. It gets worse. It would appear that no one has ever been found not guilty by one of these tribunals. Sort of an amazing record, isn't it?
If true, it's pretty bizarre that not one tribunal has ever failed to find someone guilty.
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Inciting hatred should not be a crime..If someone has something controversial to say,quote or write,not only should he be allowed to..he should be given extra protection.
"The moment you silence someone,you make yourself a slave to your own opinion."..Thomas Payne
You can't have a truly free society with hate speach laws.
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Inciting hatred should not be a crime..If someone has something controversial to say,quote or write,not only should he be allowed to..he should be given extra protection.
"The moment you silence someone,you make yourself a slave to your own opinion."..Thomas Payne
You can't have a truly free society with hate speach laws.
I'm not sure if I have ever agreed with anything you have said before, but I do completely agree with this. :rock
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Inciting hatred should not be a crime..If someone has something controversial to say,quote or write,not only should he be allowed to..he should be given extra protection.
"The moment you silence someone,you make yourself a slave to your own opinion."..Thomas Payne
You can't have a truly free society with hate speach laws.
Well said and true.
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This is bizzaro world. It gets worse. It would appear that no one has ever been found not guilty by one of these tribunals. Sort of an amazing record, isn't it?
they want to top the Spanish Inquisition.
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Inciting hatred should not be a crime..If someone has something controversial to say,quote or write,not only should he be allowed to.. he should be given extra protection.
"The moment you silence someone,you make yourself a slave to your own opinion."..Thomas Payne
You can't have a truly free society with hate speach laws.
while I agree that free speech applies to everyone, I also feel that detailing extra protection to those that want to say things that incite is nothing more than reverse discrimination.
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personally I am amazed how different the US and Canadian Constitutions are.
In US the Constitution acknowledges inherent rights of the people and restricts the government. In Canada it seems to be the opposite. The "rights" are "granted" by the government. Obviously in a Canadian model you have "rights " as long as you are a good citizen.
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Bardot was recently fined heavily for publicly complaining about Muslims in France. Guess freedom of speech ain't for everyone.
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With rights come responsibilities, and you can't have one without the other.
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With rights come responsibilities, and you can't have one without the other.
I agree. The corollary is that without responsibility you will have no rights.
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Free speech as guaranteed by the US Constitution is not the same as free speech in other countries.
More from the Steyn witchhunt: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTY3NGU4ZDJmNDM1OWVkZmYwMjUzYTJiM2JlYmQ5Y2Q=
While only an administrative hearing, the human-rights travesty had the air and authority of an actual trial — except with few of the legal protections usually afforded the accused. Andrew Coyne, a journalist with Maclean’s, live-blogged the farce; his dispatches were as amusing as they were harrowing. The proceedings had no evidentiary rules — new evidence was routinely introduced without warning. Commissioners routinely recessed to determine the eligibility of evidence; legal representation would dash off mid-hearing to print Internet material to introduce as evidence; an “expert” witness was called whose chief credentials were academic papers on Buffy the Vampire Slayer; and still other witnesses were called under the prejudicial direction that “we anticipate that success in this case will provide the impetus for prohibiting discriminatory publications in the other provinces.”
That’s right: This was only a provincial trial. The Canadian Islamic Congress — the radical Muslim complainants — went jurisdiction shopping, so once the trial in British Columbia concludes, Steyn and Maclean’s will find themselves the targets of another witch hunt at the national Canadian Human Rights Commission (CHRC). Both “courts” can impose penalties separate from each other, and the legal costs are likely to be astronomical. (The complainant’s legal representation is conveniently provided by the state at no charge.) Incredibly enough, in 31 years, the CHRC has not once dismissed a charge that has been brought before it. Could the courts in Soviet Russia have boasted of such a success rate?
What a travesty.
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Free speech as guaranteed by the US Constitution is not the same as free speech in other countries.
More from the Steyn witchhunt: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTY3NGU4ZDJmNDM1OWVkZmYwMjUzYTJiM2JlYmQ5Y2Q=
What a travesty.
Viva la liberation!
Who's gonna do it if not us?
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PC gone to the extreme of madness.
:huh
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Just keep the trees watered and the moose fed.
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what's up with all the hysteria.... so a few muslim lawyers from toronto are abusing the system... from the banter on the local tv and radio shows it seems the spectacle is an embarrassment to the average muslim caller.
but then again the recent antics of the chrt have brought a criminal complaint against it... now it's under investigation from the rcmp for abuse of power... i guess those are the checks and balances of a democracy for you.
i don't think any hrt will be a fun place to work at in the next few years... but i didn't see an outrage when they did the same to a holocaust denier.
that said... steyn is your typical zionist neocon shill and a pro empire cheerleader... he wants to be found guilty and have the case taken to a real court of law... his book has been a number #1 seller because of it all... so it's free publicity and cash in his pocket while he cries victim.
crack me up tho... i mean you go on about the whole free speech thingy... yet the your mass media easily duped you into an foolish imperial war which lead to the death of thousands of innocent iraqi civilians... all so you could impose an imperial tea tax on them.
not to mention big brother can whisk you away to a club med torture chamber with out due process.
if you wanna talk bizzaro... maybe start there... i know ron paul did.
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i don't think any hrt will be a fun place to work at in the next few years... but i didn't see an outrage when they did the same to a holocaust denier.
How is it a free society if you are only allowed one unalterable version of history?
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It's not hysteria, it's the disgust that arises when one realizes that this creeping tide of PC bullshirt will arrive on our doorstep sooner rather than later.
Further, it's a rigged game:
Not that these tribunals are likely to rule against claimants. In the three decades of federal human rights commission cases, not one defendant in a Section XIII complaint that went beyond the discovery phase has been acquitted. Defendants in provincial cases do not fare much better. As Gwen Landolt, national vice-president of REAL Women, has said, “If a complaint is laid against you, you’re automatically found guilty.” Yet, not once has an individual punished by these tribunals been found guilty in a court of law of an actual hate crime.
In part, this is because it is virtually impossible to defend against a human rights complaint. Normal rules of evidence do not apply: hearsay evidence is permitted, hearings can be held in secret, the accused usually do not face their accusers, and, most important, the presumption of innocence so vital in our common law tradition is suspended as the accused must prove their innocence. If a complainant claims to be offended, it is virtually impossible to prove that he or she has not been offended.
Holocaust deniers? White supremacists?
We allow both down here. We let the Neo-Nazis have their marches. As pointed out before, there's a huge difference in the understanding of free speech and the rest of the world. Canada's version tends strongly towards the governmental thought police approach.
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geeze torque.. ever the total liberal eh? Is there nothing that will shake your faith in "the end justifies the means" on it's way to a socialist utopia?
Styn is a great guy.. demonize him all you want but he is bright and well spoken. What is wrong with him pushing it and getting this whole unholy left wing drivel out into the open?
lazs
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Sad... is all I can say. Canadians are being let down by our own government. Every time you turn around some minority group is whining and complaining. If you are a minority or an imigrant you have rights........
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it's rather comical... a jewish guy writes a book basically given islam a back handed comment that it is the superior religion... then a bunch or misguided muslim grad students start to abuse the system to the point the govt calls in the rcmp to investigate the chrt for abuse of power... probably leading to the chrt being neutered in the process.
toad...i don't see any lies or deceit or broken bodies of children to be disgusted over.... i see checks and balances working.
laz... those are steyn own words to describe himself... he is just more honest than you are.
sir lion... i suggest you read up on ron paul speeches... he is one of those real americans not like these empire loyalist here.
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toad...i don't see any lies or deceit or broken bodies of children to be disgusted over.... i see checks and balances working.
What I see is a 30 year history of denial of a basic human right before the checks and balances even noticed.
It's grand that this is finally getting some attention. I guess it a widely read author to garner the necessary attention. In other words, Canada had to look pretty third-world-dictatorish in the world press before anything started to happen.
Is there a result in the Steyn case yet? Is he going to be the first guy that gets an acquittal?
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Well with Torque posting we can see another reason why no one likes canadians... :aok
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Sad... is all I can say. Canadians are being let down by our own government. Every time you turn around some minority group is whining and complaining. If you are a minority or an imigrant you have rights........
I was a civil servant in Ottawa for 8 years before I moved to the USA. What I remember the most was the smug attitude prevalent in the government - basically, people went around feeling smug and superior - that "They" were the Enlightened Ones, and the place of "Citizens" was to follow their lead like "serfs".
There was also this belief that They were not to be messed with - I mean someone could be a stock room clerk, and they'd literally think that people in the general population should not "mess" with them - because they were In The Government. Everyone was on a power trip, and it was all about about controlling people.
Laziness and sloth were ingrained and encouraged - after all - They were the "Anointed Ones" (yes some would actually refer to themselves as "Anointed Ones"). Another popular phrase was "The Little People don't know any better - our role is to Enlighten them".
It was like the entire population was made up idiotic children that needed to be led - not only in action, but in way of thinking.
It was amazing - if any individual questioned anything They did, the "problem" was that the said individual was a deviant self-thinker - not in line with the rest of the Enlightened World. They truly believed if they did not lead everyone, society would self destruct in a wave of self interest. They dealt with rabble-rousers by focusing all their might on them and crushing them as an individuals. They still do it today.
When I worked for Them, I worked on software designed to track the media - it was a database that kept track of media articles about the government - specifically reporters that were negative towards the ruling party (then, the Liberal party of Canada). When reporters stuck out as troublemakers, they went to work on them - usually by pressuring their Editors to have them toe-the-line or get them fired. A number of reporters had their careers destroyed during the infamous HRDC scandal in 1998 (where 1 billion dollars went, and still is, "missing"). I have their careers on my conscience (my software tracked them), and that episode was a major reason why I quit the civil service. I was a young idealist then, and they used me.
Canada is a seriously MESSED UP country - it's a bizarre mix of old English "class" society, combined with some American influences, but with a very left wing slant to it.
Since immigrating to the USA, I've purposefully stayed away from defining myself as a "Democrat" or "Republican" - I distrust both - but I can tell you that I shudder whenever a high level politician points to Canada as an "ideal society". Whenever I see a politician dreamily refer to Canada as some kind of Utopia I know exactly what kind of ambition this politician has.
I've learned from experience that the move government you have, the more comfortable, and bold, They get. It's a surefire recipe for abuses of power.
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TJ
The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.
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News today in the Toronto Star...The Ontario Liberal Premier announced today that instead of dropping "The Lords Prayer" said before each morning session in Parliament like he had supported....Now they get a rotating # of prayers as well including Jewish,Muslim,Native and a couple others because various religious "congresses" had complained.
Now if they could just insert an Athiest non prayer day where everyone could just go about their business without delay,we'd be taking a small step towards a more efficient govt.
We need a first ammendment like you yanks have to say the least.
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torque.. besides the fact that honesty has nothing to do with if I have heard him say something or not....
"that said... steyn is your typical zionist neocon shill and a pro empire cheerleader..." it is you who are being dishonest.. steyn is a commentator and humorist and satirist.. If he did say those things about himself then you certainly know (and are being dishonest about) the fact that he would be doing so as a satire.
He is a great guy and bright. That is all I said and that is true. If he said what you said about himself then I would laugh along with him.
lazs
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Well no one likes canadians. Now we have a reason. :aok
:furious Applies more so, to Yanks !!!! never point finger to anyone, for three R pointing at U !
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:furious Applies more so, to Yanks !!!! never point finger to anyone, for three R pointing at U !
It's ok, I know its hard to be a cunukian....
Dont strike.....
(http://37prime.wordpress.com/files/2008/03/1204_canadians.jpg)
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geeze toad why all the high drama.... it's not as if anyone was forced to drink from a special fountain or that they were forced to sit at the back of the bus... nor was anyone whisked away for a special rendition session and then kept in a cage on an island like those third world dictatorships often do.
steyn is making money from the whole affair... the muslims will have it blowup in their faces... the religious groups have discovered they can abuse the system and use it to play lawfare.
laz... i know honesty has little to do with neocon socialism... steyn is just one of the few honest ones unlike the rest of his ilk.
the whole thing just shows religion is a pita...
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I don't know torque.. you sure seem to be selective in your human rights that you would support.. not just on the principal either.. you narrow it down to the man. some deserve more rights than others?
So what if styn is making money off it? every liberal cause in the world is grounded in lawyers and politicians making money off it. I don't ever see you using that to disqualify the movement.
lazs