Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Agent360 on June 14, 2008, 10:56:09 PM
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I made this up tonight. Hope it helps
This is an example of the lead you need for a 400+ deflection shot...the most difficult to make.
In this example the target is trying to turn up and back to me. All the things were right for this shot.....No G's...well if you look at the gauge I am pulling 3.7 g's but that is because I am pulling the nose up a bit compensate for the drop. And a target tracking "to my guns" as opposed to me tracking to him.
These images are 800x640 but the actual size may be bigger when in the game so consider that. The actual distance of lead is probably 20% more due to this size difference.
The shots start HIGH above the target and I am nose down about 20 deg or so. This allows the rounds to drop onto the target. Remember that the rounds really drop over distance so its not just the lead horizontally it is also the verticle lead.
The red dot is the target so you can see where he is when I start firing
Image 1 - The first shot is taken
(http://northwestflorida.com/aceshigh/training/gunnery/shot_1/fim_42_shot1.jpg)
Image 2 - The first 30mm that hits is fired.
(http://northwestflorida.com/aceshigh/training/gunnery/shot_1/fim_42_shot2.jpg)
Image 3 - The the first round make a kill shot. There is a second round just coming in that hits and finishes the kill. I fired about 8 rounds. At this distance you have to squeeze of a few more than when close.
(http://northwestflorida.com/aceshigh/training/gunnery/shot_1/fim_42_shot3.jpg)
Image 4 - This is a composite of all the images showing the targets track as I am shooting. The cockpit layer is reduced so you can see through it and see the track. I did this in photoshop.....so dont think I got some kind of wall hack or something....lol
If you look at the first 3 shots above you see the red dot is not really in the same spot as the track. That is because the cockpit image is the last one in the series and doesnt show the cockpit move with the other images. But the track is at the same time as the cockpit. So this shows the real track of teh plane at this point in the film.
(http://northwestflorida.com/aceshigh/training/gunnery/shot_1/fim_42_shot3_path.jpg)
The whole film - 17 seconds.
http://northwestflorida.com/aceshigh/training/gunnery/shot_1/film42_0043.ahf (http://northwestflorida.com/aceshigh/training/gunnery/shot_1/film42_0043.ahf)
Agent360
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damn that a big lead, I never take shots that far in k4 now. I know I will most likely miss, so I tend to work my opponent to where he is right infront of my gun.
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i will fire just the machine gun that far out and hope for lucky pw or kill, im not comfortable at 200 yards yet but i get lucky some.
am i correct in the assuption that its good to just give the triger a quck squeeze maybe a 2-4 round burst then reaquire and re lead again?
i actualy got six kills with it the other night taking just point blank one quick pull shots.
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Very nice. I can't even hit 400 out with 50's.
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am i correct in the assuption that its good to just give the triger a quck squeeze maybe a 2-4 round burst then reaquire and re lead again?
Yes most times that is best but when taking 400+ shots.... shoot a few more.
When taking snap shots u either hit or miss so no need to hold the trigger down. Tap the trigger.....2 3 4 rounds
Yenny...yes the lead is a lot. Way more than u think. I still struggle with firing that far ahead....I have to talk out loud to make those long leads sometimes. I contstatly have to force myself to shoot. It is a fight with my mind....for some reason I cant make myself mis by shooting too far ahead but I got no problem with missing late....go figure.
But I recommend u try these shots. Try any shot u have. If you can roll over...pull up...or nose into a lead for a shot ....TAKE IT
The more you shoot at shots "you" think are impossible the more you will start making them.
Agent360
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Cant DL film. :furious
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Yes most times that is best but when taking 400+ shots.... shoot a few more.
When taking snap shots u either hit or miss so no need to hold the trigger down. Tap the trigger.....2 3 4 rounds
Yenny...yes the lead is a lot. Way more than u think. I still struggle with firing that far ahead....I have to talk out loud to make those long leads sometimes. I contstatly have to force myself to shoot. It is a fight with my mind....for some reason I cant make myself mis by shooting too far ahead but I got no problem with missing late....go figure.
But I recommend u try these shots. Try any shot u have. If you can roll over...pull up...or nose into a lead for a shot ....TAKE IT
The more you shoot at shots "you" think are impossible the more you will start making them.
It's good to make the ballistics a sort of extension of yourself. Just like learning any tool, the best way to make yourself proficient with it is to automate it to the point that it becomes a thoughtless routine. If you start thinking about it too much, you'll spoil any accurate instincts. Like Agent said and Bruce Lee said too, you have to let it happen on its own, no forcing it: Bruce Lee soundbite (http://rapidshare.com/files/122619248/BL_Martial.mp3)
It's analogous to what they teach in firearm classes - the last thing you do as you prepare the pull the trigger is to get it just under enough pressure for the shot to then go off without any spoiling movements.
Lately I've been watching films of my fights and I actualy overshoot the taters by just a bit.. Pretty disconcerting when the difficulty's supposed to be in leading enough.
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Cant DL film. :furious
I checked the link and it works. Could have been net congestion.
Try it again.
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My experience with 30mms is pretty much with the 110. Basically I fire where I think the airplane "will be". With the 110 you have the advantage of having a whole lot of 30mm ammo so you can really hose with it. So not only do I avoid HOs with 110s I avoid getting close enough to one and anywhere he can get a solution on me. Last night I killed 4 fighters right in a row while in a 110. When you hose them with your 30mms it can put lights out very dramatically. I have found foot rudders very helpful in adjusting tater aim.
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I got loads but here are a couple
http://www.furballers.com/files/freezovershoot.zip
http://www.mediafire.com/?so5v0mmgmya
http://www.mediafire.com/?juv1mwejlyz
http://www.mediafire.com/?inr3ilipjgi
some fun film i recommend slowing it down.
-freez
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Snapshot at pretty much full rudder deflection.
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/shot130mm.jpg)
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/shot230mm.jpg)
2-3 30mm's hit. The result-
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/aftermath.jpg)
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Snapshot at pretty much full rudder deflection.
2-3 30mm's hit. The result-
Cooooollll...nice work on the screen shots.
:salute
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Ty... I'm lucky he pulled up, I should've missed :lol
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Great thread and great pics.
:salute
On the issue of convergence, which should mean you may have to increase or decrease your leading, how far do you guys set your 131s and 108s in the 109?
I'm tempted to start moving it out more (I have mine at 200 yards) because I've been flying the Fw 190 A5 lately and I have completely lost my touch with the 30mm cannon in the 109. I can't hit a frigging thing with it.
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I have every gun, on almost every plane, set to 300 yards. Probably not the best setting but it works. The two exceptions are the Fw190F8 which are at 400 yards (both banks) and the Me262 which has the upper bank set to 300 yards and the lower bank set to 600 yards for a 'shotgun effect'. It actually works pretty well.
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not that it matters since all the guns are nose mounted anyway but i set em to 600 arch.
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Close your eyes, squeeze the trigger and pray !
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I have the 30mm set at d200. With the tater gun the conv is setting the arc/drop of the round. You can set it at d400 and your round will be arcing high onto a d200 targer. Some do this to help in the lead on a flat turn.
I tried it and it just messed everything up. I couldnt properly lead on deflection shots. You have to aim low for strait six d200 shots and for close in snaps. That is the last thing you want to start doing is aiming low.
I recommend d200 and learn to plan the deflection properly.
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I use d200 as well.
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I use 650 on all the 30mm's.
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I have the 30mm set at d200. With the tater gun the conv is setting the arc/drop of the round. You can set it at d400 and your round will be arcing high onto a d200 targer. Some do this to help in the lead on a flat turn.
I tried it and it just messed everything up. I couldnt properly lead on deflection shots. You have to aim low for strait six d200 shots and for close in snaps. That is the last thing you want to start doing is aiming low.
I recommend d200 and learn to plan the deflection properly.
Yeah, that's what I've always used. 200 on the 108 and 600 for the 131s. Thanks for that. Your images were a great help, thanks.
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not that it matters since all the guns are nose mounted anyway but i set em to 600 arch.
Not necessarily, mate. Convergence is also related to the vertical trajectory of the rounds. The 108 fires 'up' out of the nose a huge amount for a 600 yard setting. If you shoot at someone from D200, dead 6 plain and level and in the centre of your sights, you won't hit them. Essentially the round 'drops' on your target with your guns out that far.
Different guns have different trajectories, so the 131s will have a much flatter firing line than the 108.
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for 30mm I set it at 200, 20mm set at 400, and 50 cal at 300.
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Agent having fought countless duels with you, and having spent countless hours trying to understand what the hell you were trying to explain to me, these threads have made it all make ALLOT MORE SENSE. Thanks for posting these threads/videos. Maybe I'll be able to use some of these tricks against ya :)
<S> for the work you've put in, you'll be a trainer soon the way things are going.
P.S. I still have some tricks of my own that I'm sure you can remember heheh.
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One of the hardest things people do is switch planes which can screw up your aim incredibly - I.e 20mm to 30mm in a 109 or wing mounted to nose mounted -
here are 2 videos of my typical flights in a 109g6 and 109k4
http://www.mediafire.com/?thlqix5an9j (http://www.mediafire.com/?thlqix5an9j)
http://www.mediafire.com/?onjvmmiagbn (http://www.mediafire.com/?onjvmmiagbn)
Both videos show my method of riding up someones "rear" and letting loose a burst, I tend to snapshot on the 20mm if not always, far
as the 30mm I tend to wait till I can get a decent enough snapshot.
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One of the hardest things people do is switch planes which can screw up your aim incredibly - I.e 20mm to 30mm in a 109 or wing mounted to nose mounted -
here are 2 videos of my typical flights in a 109g6 and 109k4
http://www.mediafire.com/?thlqix5an9j (http://www.mediafire.com/?thlqix5an9j)
http://www.mediafire.com/?onjvmmiagbn (http://www.mediafire.com/?onjvmmiagbn)
Both videos show my method of riding up someones "rear" and letting loose a burst, I tend to snapshot on the 20mm if not always, far
as the 30mm I tend to wait till I can get a decent enough snapshot.
Tried to watch your films man, not sure if you are using TrackIR or what (didn't think that showed up in the viewer) but the views were going nuts! :huh
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Thats my constant SA - I check all my views every 2-3 seconds, at one point im zeroing in on someone and check my 6 right when i started firing. Good Situational awareness is what keeps me alive
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Thats my constant SA - I check all my views every 2-3 seconds, at one point im zeroing in on someone and check my 6 right when i started firing. Good Situational awareness is what keeps me alive
No, I'm not talking about just keeping your head on a swivel. Your views were at some points apparently way above you A/C, then out on the tip of one wing, or the other. I switched to external view on the viewer and it was the same.
I've tried other films since and I'm not getting a repeat of the issue.
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The film viewer mis-handles head positions near enough the in-game physical limit of the cockpit.
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Ha! LW Pansies don't know what it's like to shoot a real Tater Gun... :devil
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/davest/YakShot-1.jpg)
<S>...-Gixer
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lol said the melon tosser :lol
hi Gix!
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Hello,
How does one make their plane transparent as Motherland's picture shows?
Thanks,
WT
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You don't. It's a composite image made with the film viewer.
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Excellent thread. I'm going to take agent360's advice and set the 30mm to 200 yards. Fwiw, I have the mg's at 400 yards, but their position in the nose and ballistics seem to make this rather unimportant.
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I have set conv 200 for 30mm and both 13mm, tracers off. Conv does not matter much, because i usually fire around d40-150 and against turning target, cannot hit good from 6 pos, because really old and warbooty stick i have :). Good point is: big target and 65 rounds mostly are enought to get 3-11 kills without reload.
Gixxer, that look like longrange shot :D