Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DREDIOCK on June 16, 2008, 06:43:45 AM
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Similar to what I've been saying all along
" That desire for change also tends to manifest itself at the end of a president’s second termOnly twice in the 20th century has a candidate from the same party as a two-term president won the presidency, most recently in 1988, when George H.W. Bush replaced the term-limited Ronald Reagan, who was about twice as popular in the last year of his presidency as President George W. Bush is now.
But the biggest obstacle in McCain’s path may be running in the same party as the most unpopular president America has had since at least the advent of modern polling. Only Harry Truman and Nixon — both of whom were dogged by unpopular wars abroad and political scandals at home — have been nearly as unpopular in their last year in office, and both men’s parties lost the presidency in the following election."
But its not all bad news.
"Campbell still casts McCain as the underdog. But he said McCain might have more appeal to moderates than Obama if the electorate decides McCain is “center right” while Obama is “far left.” Democrats have been repeatedly undone when their nominee was viewed as too liberal,
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080615/pl_politico/11090
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What if McCain chose Colin Powell as his VP? Would that make the McCain a shoe-in?
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What if McCain chose Colin Powell as his VP? Would that make the McCain a shoe-in?
Not unless McCain and Powel became members of a different party.
As much as anything its the party hurting McCain.
And more pointedly.
George Bush
I'd be willing to bet that if you went out on the street and randomly selected strangers and asked them who the first person that came to mind when you said the word "republican"
most would say "George Bush"
Right now the climate is
Republican = Bush
Bush = bad
McCain not only has to distance himself from Bush.
But he has to do so in an almost vicious manner for him to stand a chance
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What if McCain chose Colin Powell as his VP? Would that make the McCain a shoe-in?
absolutely. imho.
but the wife said no.
so, we'd have to ask her reeeeeeally nice.
:D
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dred.. I am sure that the guy is correct.. that all the people who don't vote will be out there supporting osamabama but... not voting.
I think that the only thing that can save the democrats will be a short time between now and november. I believe that osamabama is so flawed that the more time people have to know him the more he will be seen for what he is... An ultra liberal angry socialist racist with a really sordid past filled with nasty people. If he is forced to answer questions without a teleprompter he will be seen to be the know nothing that he is who has no experience.
Time is of the essence.. he needs to stay out of the limelight except for pablum speeches that say nothing but are rousing orator style "changing the hope" and "hoping for change" stuff while avoiding the "but all your friends are bomb throwing anti Americans and racists" reports that will be coming out.. he needs to not explain how he intends to do anything because even the dumbest amoung us will see that every path leads to more out of their pocket for feel good and worthless issues.
He need to stay away from any talk of race since he is the most racist candidate anyone has fielded in recent history yet... he needs to hammer race to garner the white guilt vote (mostly women and ponytailed womenly men).
He is the most radical liberal and inexperienced candidate the democrats have ever fielded and he need to not have it all come out. It is huge tho.. if the damn breaks before november he is, deservedly, toast.
lazs
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one can only pray.
for those of you who think of me as a librool. know this. i think that obama is the worst possible choice for president.
aside from his "hope first, solutions second" approach, this has nothing to do with skin tone. this has everything to do with inner city politics and satellite advisors.
i shudder to think what sorts of entitlements will come pouring out of the dam if that one gets opened.
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88.. I see you as a thinking liberal.. this means nothing but that you are on the cusp. What happens to thinking liberals is they get fed up with being lied to... with "the end justifies the means" .
I think also that you are not really a liberal in the socialist modern meaning of the term.. more like a Charlton Heston in the 50's kind of liberal. I can't imagine that you will not find yourself in the libertarian or individualist camp. I believe that you have been surrounded with modern liberals from the artsy crowd.. who are... give em credit.. cool and witty. Just as so many are seduced by osamabamas oratory style.. many are seduced by what seems like witty from the socialists... satire and clever wit are more the perview of the modern liberal than of the conservative or.. even more so.. the libertarian or individualist.
The modern liberal is a follower of the cult of personality. osamabama personifies this..
in my opinion.
I think you suffer from the curse of intelligence and an overdeveloped sense of honesty. These things get in the way of political party following but are death to anyone wanting to follow the liberal socialist cult of personality.
lazs
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...the liberal socialist cult of personality.
So you're saying the Extreme-right ultra-conservatives don't have the same?
With all the liberal bashing you're always omitting (or forgetting) that there's really no difference at all between the Extreme Left and the Extreme Right. Both sides are just as oppressive and do the EXACT same things, the difference is just in why they say they're doing it.
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Not one single person in the last 100 years who ran on a platform of raising taxes has won in the last 100 years.
I forsee a sad and possibly horrible chain of events that I pray does not come to pass.
ROX
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there is no way on earth mcain wins.
obama will be our next president....of that...I have no doubt.
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Obama would have to tapdance on his crank wearing golf shoes to lose this one.
That said, never underestimate the ability of the Dems to snatch defeat from the very jaws of victory.
I think it's Obama and he won't break a sweat.
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Obama would have to tapdance on his crank wearing golf shoes to lose this one.
That said, never underestimate the ability of the Dems to snatch defeat from the very jaws of victory.
I think it's Obama and he won't break a sweat.
it's a double edged sword for him.........because the very thing that will get him elected is the very thing people will hate about him four years later.
1. people wonder what would have happened if bobby kennedy won...and think of obama (why I have no idea) as bobby kennedy.
2. after 4 years....many will say: "I knew bobby kennedy........and you sir....are no bobby kennedy"
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hmm.. you guys think it is really that bad? That Americans are so stupid that they will vote for an osamabama?
I had heard that before he won the the nomination that he was pretty close in the poles with McCain. I heard he got a bounce from billary quitting but.... that stuff goes away naturally.
I am just thinking that it is a race... the race is not for him to win but to lose. The longer people have to get to know him and hear him the worse it will be for him. If he can just make speeches and avoid content he will win.
lazs
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hmm.. you guys think it is really that bad? That Americans are so stupid that they will vote for an osamabama?
lazs
In a word, yes. To both questions.
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New entitlement programs will be created and old entitlement programs will grow by leaps and bounds. He will punish the evil corporations, oil companies, and the guilty rich with much higher tax rates.
Give him four years and you won't recognize our economy.
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shhhhh, just drink the koolaid, he is going to tax the rich and the evil corporations, he will change america and then change the world, we will live in utopia.
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deleted
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agreed.
I bet the sob even opens "a constructive dialog" on slave reparations.
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88.. I see you as a thinking liberal.. this means nothing but that you are on the cusp. What happens to thinking liberals is they get fed up with being lied to... with "the end justifies the means" .
I think also that you are not really a liberal in the socialist modern meaning of the term.. more like a Charlton Heston in the 50's kind of liberal. I can't imagine that you will not find yourself in the libertarian or individualist camp. I believe that you have been surrounded with modern liberals from the artsy crowd.. who are... give em credit.. cool and witty. Just as so many are seduced by osamabamas oratory style.. many are seduced by what seems like witty from the socialists... satire and clever wit are more the perview of the modern liberal than of the conservative or.. even more so.. the libertarian or individualist.
The modern liberal is a follower of the cult of personality. osamabama personifies this..
in my opinion.
I think you suffer from the curse of intelligence and an overdeveloped sense of honesty. These things get in the way of political party following but are death to anyone wanting to follow the liberal socialist cult of personality.
lazs
well, to be honest, i've never been one for artists. even though i am one i have always been the wolf outside of that pack. in general, i think that they tend to fear me. or at least my influence.
i have very few actual "friends" who are artists, but those that have and who are, are top notch people, not senseless party goers.
everyday things inspire me most.
as far as obama. i am not opposed to the notion of "hope", but i don't see such things as either interesting, or viable without good leadership. reagan gave us hope. i liked reagan. he was a great commander in chief. as i believe was bush sr. they represented the best of the republican party i think. at least, and most importantly, militarily.
kennedy was a great orator and i like him as a character because he spoke of our hopes and dreams in specifics. he said, we'll go to the moon, we went to the moon.
(bay of pigs...well, he probably wasn't orating...anywhoo)
i don't see obama getting us anywhere but increased welfare spending, increased taxes and decreased incentive for business in america.
my mind goes to detroit and to "white flight".
wheras colin powell (a black man) would build markets. obama is going to obliterate them. he's just bad juju and we shouldn't let ourselves be so easilly seduced by this hopeful romantic. there is hard work yet to be done.
i'd feel better with what he has to say being said in church rather than as our national mouthpeice.
i'll take mccain with a young progressive running mate. let the running mate pull a cheney and do all of the work and we're set for a little while.
dang. i rambled.
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88.. good ramble.. I found it interesting and.. to be honest.. I have nothing negative to say about it.
I am all for "hope".. I am an optimist of the highest order. I think that the trouble starts when "hope" is defined. If "hope" means that only utopia is acceptable.. that all injustice is attacked and an attempt to rectify it is made.... well.. then you get thousands suffering because of an accident of one or the stupidity of one..
If hope and utopia mean the the individual is crushed or that individual rights are crushed then I want no part of that "hope".
Change can mean getting a cancer. Change can mean less money to raise your family.. Change for changes can be pretty bad.
osamabama is also a racist of the worst kind..
lazs
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<S>
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All you guys think that Obama is evil. Are you kidding me? He is one of the most sincere and truth telling politicians I have seen. He is not racist. I don't understand how you guys judge people's characters, but whatever method you are using is flawed. How can you not like the guy? Oprah even backs him. Everyone loves Oprah. I think the best of Obama is yet to come when the presidential debates begin. He is everything a president should be.
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Ive been voting for Presidents since 1976. That word "change" is used so much in campaigns they should tattoo it on their foreheads. Klinton was a master of using that word, and since Obama is modeling so much of his strategy on Billys it should come as no surprise he uses it a lot too.
What makes Obama different is he really isn't saying what, if anything, hes going to change.
Colin Powell has already made it plain hes a Republican. He also has no interest in public office. If McCain is really slick he'll ask Connie Rice. Then both parties will have someone black on the ticket.
A lot of people say Bush = bad but when you ask them why they dont to go blank. Dont overestimate the Intelligence of voters. Both Obama and Billary just had an extended primary campaign where they said almost "zero" about their Policies or where they stood on issues. Mostly they showed up to stumps and said whatever their strategists told them to say.
Obamas saying hes going to start a pullout of troops from Iraq. Thats a pretty safe thing to say cause those troops will begin to be pulled out before the next President moves in anyway. The truth is Iraq is stabalizing and its security improving as is every other facet of Iraqi life. So all those Yank troops wont be needed and some will be pulled out no matter who wins.
But what Obama wont say is that Bushs troop surge has worked and thats why troops will be leaving Iraq. Why should he state facts when he can spin it and come out looking the hero? Its very possible most Yank troops will be out of Iraq by the time the next President moves in.
Imagine that? If Democracy and stability end up sweeping thru the Middle East then Historians may consider George Bush a genius.
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All you guys think that Obama is evil. Are you kidding me? He is one of the most sincere and truth telling politicians I have seen. He is not racist. I don't understand how you guys judge people's characters, but whatever method you are using is flawed. How can you not like the guy? Oprah even backs him. Everyone loves Oprah. I think the best of Obama is yet to come when the presidential debates begin. He is everything a president should be.
I don't like him because I've seen what a party hack he is in Illinois as both a state and federal senator. I've seen the party hack dud's he's endorsed (Stroger, Tillman, Daley, etc.) over better candidates just to keep the corrupt Cook County machine in power.
I don't like him because his comments and voting history is lockstep with the Dick Durbin/Teddy Kennedy extreme left wing of the Democratic party. Why replace 8 years of wasteful pseudo conservative republican excess with another 8 years of big govt. progressive Democrat excess.
And Obama's really some "outsider," being pushed up through the ranks by party hack Emil Jones then carried under the wing of Dick Durbin -- with Daley giving his blessing all the way. Wouldn't vote for Teddy or Dick either, if given the choice.
I don't like him because he is a typical politician, saying populist things about NAFTA yet secretly telling the Canadians not to worry, then trying to deny his way out of it when caught. Or where he claims to be a Washington outsider yet his top contributors reads like a who's who of Wall Street. Yeah, big financial houses really want change in Washington...
I believe that any candidate supported by Queen Oprah, or John Cusack or Scarlett Johansson or George Soros will be out of step with the needs of real people, at least those that do not believe all of life's' ups and downs should be mitigated by some govt. program because us little people just can't handle personal responsibility.
As for the racism, regardless of his leaning (and his wife's) towards the black liberation theology of James H. Cone I have to believe that much of that was pure state politics in action. When push comes to shove I believe he will drop or set aside this convection (I do blelieve it is ernest) like almost any other politician when faced with "conviction vs. votes." The black churches in Chicago are a power center linked directly to the city, county and state Democratic/patronage machine. Just like his Harvard education it opened doors that would otherwise be closed. Just like his community activism developed his power base early on. It is no longer needed.
Charon
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All you guys think that Obama is evil. Are you kidding me? He is one of the most sincere and truth telling politicians I have seen. He is not racist. I don't understand how you guys judge people's characters, but whatever method you are using is flawed. How can you not like the guy? Oprah even backs him. Everyone loves Oprah. I think the best of Obama is yet to come when the presidential debates begin. He is everything a president should be.
Get a really fast motorcycle.... Before you have kids.. Please.
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What makes Obama different is he really isn't saying what, if anything, hes going to change.
When Obama first started his campaign they [people] moaned about how he talked too much about specifics of his policy. They wanted him to focus more on his ideas rather than to get into the specifics of his policies. Now people are complaining that he doesn't say how he is gonna accomplish his ideas. Just because you don't hear him get into the specifics of a plan, doesn't mean there aren't any. If you want to know the specifics go to his campaign website.
Charon....I totally respect your opinon about the "Illinois political machine". However, when Obama mentions "reaching across party lines to work on issues" I believe him. He always stresses the importance of working together to solve some of the issues Americans face. He is a very inspiring individual that I think could help lead this country in a positive direction.
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However, when Obama mentions "reaching across party lines to work on issues" I believe him. He always stresses the importance of working together to solve some of the issues Americans face.
name ONE time he has done this in his "career".
NOT
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Obama is not electible. I've been saying this since the start of the primaries. Clinton was the dems only hope and that was dim indeed.
One of their few chances of getting someone in the White House was Lieberman. There still aren't enough voting fools to get a lefty in the office of POTUS.
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88.. I see you as a thinking liberal.. this means nothing but that you are on the cusp. What happens to thinking liberals is they get fed up with being lied to... with "the end justifies the means" .
I think also that you are not really a liberal in the socialist modern meaning of the term.. more like a Charlton Heston in the 50's kind of liberal. I can't imagine that you will not find yourself in the libertarian or individualist camp. I believe that you have been surrounded with modern liberals from the artsy crowd.. who are... give em credit.. cool and witty. Just as so many are seduced by osamabamas oratory style.. many are seduced by what seems like witty from the socialists... satire and clever wit are more the perview of the modern liberal than of the conservative or.. even more so.. the libertarian or individualist.
The modern liberal is a follower of the cult of personality. osamabama personifies this..
in my opinion.
I think you suffer from the curse of intelligence and an overdeveloped sense of honesty. These things get in the way of political party following but are death to anyone wanting to follow the liberal socialist cult of personality.
lazs
lazs you are one of the most ignorantly obediant lying conservative I've ever read. :aok
Obama is a twit.
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Obama HAS no history of reaching across the aisle to cooperate with the Republican opposition.
Conversely, McCaine is well known for his willingness to engage in bipartisan lawmaking, and has drawn quite a bit of criticism from ultra-conservatives within his own party for doing so.
Check out Obama's record of achievements in Congress. It is almost non-existent.
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name ONE time he has done this in his "career".
In the US Senate he helped establish a website for the public to track government spending. This was a bipartisan example of him working with both repugnicans and democrats.
Twentyfo shoots and scores!!!!
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In the US Senate he helped establish a website for the public to track government spending. This was a bipartisan example of him working with both repugnicans and democrats.
Twentyfo shoots and scores!!!!
there are already several bipartisan non-govt groups who have been doing that for decades.
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putting ones name on something that he had nothing to with implementing isn't really worth celebrating, IMHO. i doubt he could turn on his own computer, much less develop a web site.
so, step carefully away from the koolaid and no one will get hurt. :aok
i truly believe if obama was Caucasian, with nothing else about his life different, he would never have gotten a single vote. and before you think i am a mccain supporter, think again. i'm hoping an age related health issue will make him drop out soon. i feel the american people should have the option to start the process over when all the candidates are tools.
NOT
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Obama HAS no history of reaching across the aisle to cooperate with the Republican opposition.
Actually he was slightly better at reaching across the isle then Hillary.
Byt something like .7% LOL
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I still say fire everyone in Washington and disqualify all current office-holders or office-SEEKERS from running in the resulting elections to fill out the new government.
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I still say fire everyone in Washington and disqualify all current office-holders or office-SEEKERS from running in the resulting elections to fill out the new government.
I'll drink to that one.
Then again.
I'll drink to almost anything.
I do second the motion though
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burp.
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osamabama is also a racist of the worst kind..
lazs
i tend to look at him racially only from the standpoint that i think that his racial perspective is enough to outweigh the content of his character. his character is smooth and unknown, polished and assuming, radical in all the right ways. he's a sales pitch. whereas colin powel seems to be a man who sees beyond this barrier and sought to succeed as a man, not as a black man. he is a man with an appropriate character.
is it obama as a man or obama as a black man that negates him for you?
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Charon....I totally respect your opinon about the "Illinois political machine". However, when Obama mentions "reaching across party lines to work on issues" I believe him. He always stresses the importance of working together to solve some of the issues Americans face. He is a very inspiring individual that I think could help lead this country in a positive direction.
I believe that's McCain's reputation (reaching across the aisle), actually supported by his record. Of course, that's mostly on issues I tend to disagree with like his amnesty policy. Not a big McCain fan. But, what a sorry field of candidates from both parties, finalists included. It was at least neat so see Paul remind us of the Constitution and the ideal of a small federal govt. for a few months.
I posted a link to Obama's voting record not too long ago. Didn't really make too many votes that went against the party. He may stress this, or orate that, but he didn't deliver in Illinois. Didn't inspire outside the party machine. Didn't really attack any of the pressing issues (and there are some serious ones) this state faces. For example, supported party hacks with links to corruption at the expense of his constituents. At the state level mostly passed (was given credit for) other people's legislation by his mentor Emil Jones. Posted a link on that earlier as well. Hasn't done much at the federal level except support agribusiness pork projects. Now, I suppose bringing home the pork is part of the job description in Washington today -- but that's very much business as usual.
The people backing him don't support changing the system (Ted K and Soros). The money flowing into his campaign doesn't support changing the system (Wall Street). His history in Illinois and the little he has in Washington doesn't show much interest in changing the system. Now, if by change you mean being a Democratic party player in the traditional manner while pushing an agenda at the Ted Kennedy left wing spectrum of the party then he's your man. But, you will not see ANY unity with that platform -- hell, even most of the new conservative Democrats won't like it.
If you could comfortably vote for either Ted Kennedy or Dick Durbin then IMO you won't be disappointed in what you get from Obama. And there are certainly people who would have no problem with that. But not enough to win him an election if he can't keep the smoke and mirrors rolling for a few more months.
[EDIT: Having said that, there's too little record to really know the man. What he's done so far from his legislative record to his "activism" to his choice of church was what was required to rise up in Illinois politics. We are a very liberal state (because of Chicago) that is comparable to California or Mass. Hardly moderate or mainstream in the party here. His associates, confidants and personal comments (and those of his wife) do suggest he is an actual true believer at the far left of the political spectrum. However, he might be a politician first and foremost like the Clintons, and adjust his reality to suit a more moderate America once he gets the big Job. However, if he also has a strong Democratic majority in Congress he may not have to.]
Charon
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The simple fact that Obama is the democratic nominee pretty much guarantees my vote for McCain. As much as McCain worries me with his left of right positions on everything, he (McCain) is far preferable to Obama at every level, far as I can tell.
I am still Open to seeing how the two men choose to debate, and the genuine content (if any) of those debates, but my doubts about Obama's experience and his (Obama's) far left voting record in the Senate pretty much cinches the deal for McCain.
The final analysis: I cast my vote and I live with the results just like everyone else.
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mccain is going to have to spank him down hard.
on television he is going to appear weak and infirm if he doesnt come out strong.
he better start training hard in his mind.
theme from rocky hard.
there are no givens here.
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88.. I see you as a thinking liberal.. this means nothing but that you are on the cusp. What happens to thinking liberals is they get fed up with being lied to... with "the end justifies the means" .
I think also that you are not really a liberal in the socialist modern meaning of the term.. more like a Charlton Heston in the 50's kind of liberal. I can't imagine that you will not find yourself in the libertarian or individualist camp. I believe that you have been surrounded with modern liberals from the artsy crowd.. who are... give em credit.. cool and witty. Just as so many are seduced by osamabamas oratory style.. many are seduced by what seems like witty from the socialists... satire and clever wit are more the perview of the modern liberal than of the conservative or.. even more so.. the libertarian or individualist.
The modern liberal is a follower of the cult of personality. osamabama personifies this..
in my opinion.
I think you suffer from the curse of intelligence and an overdeveloped sense of honesty. These things get in the way of political party following but are death to anyone wanting to follow the liberal socialist cult of personality.
lazs
But obama is a Marxist, he studied that in colledge, McCain could use that against him. :aok
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mccain is the prodigal son of barry goldwater.
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Obama is a Marxist and a Communist. I dont think he is a racist, i do think he is a bigot, he has kept close company for many years with many well known Bigots! (the term racist and bigot are often tossed around in a haphazard manner). Get ready boys, coming to a white house near you, from the ideas that brought you Lenin and Stalin we gona have "Daddy Obama!" Big Brother government at its finest.
:(
zuii
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skyrock.. you are not the most slavishly ignorant socialists I have seen but you are in the middle somewhere.
twenty foe... osamabama says that he will bring us together. I can bring us together too if I can use the police and the government to crush anyone who does not feel exactly like I do (or at least pretend to). I don't want a politician to bring us together by taking away my guns and taking my money and giving it to someone who has less. I don't want anyone to bring us together by taking away my freedom.
lazs
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If OsamaObama gets in you will find the true meaning of "hope and change".
6 months in you will be hoping for anything, anything to change.
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Obama is a Marxist and a Communist.
Speaking of two words that are often tossed around in a haphazard manner...
Marxism doesn't work because of human nature. Communism is what Marxism gets twisted into BECAUSE of human nature.
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88.. with some men you can separate race from the man but.. not osamaba. He is a racist. He has a real chip on his shoulder for the white race and he has a wife who keeps him stewing in it.
The other think is simply that he is the same old hidebound liberal socialist with a young face. He is teddy kennedy without the bloated and disgusting look and voice. You couldn't tell if it was kennedys 50 year old socialism or osamabamas new views that are being spoken. they are the same person.
The same situation we have now happened once before. Jimmy carter got in. I feel the old deja vu all over again thing.
We lived through that.. we will live through this.
lazs
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jackal.. maybe but.. I think it will be more like you will be hoping he will let you keep a little of your change.
Twenty foe cracks me up.. I sure can't recall anyone here ever complaining that osamabama explained his ideas too much. All I see is flowery speeches and excuses from the guy...
lazs
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<-- actually undecided.
I like McCain, but I still believe that universal health care is long overdue and it ain't happening with a Republican in office. If McCain advocated health care reform I'd probably vote for him.
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why would you want the gubmint to run healthcare? if you think we are in trouble now I can't imagine what we will be like as a nation with an ever increasing federal government fifty years from now. mccain is a democrat for all but name, make no mistake about that.
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Obama is going to make a great President. Mccain is not a bad fella, and in all honesty would be worlds better than our current mistake.
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Obama is going to make a great President. Mccain is not a bad fella, and in all honesty would be worlds better than our current mistake.
has he made a great senator?