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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mg1942 on June 16, 2008, 09:54:06 PM

Title: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: mg1942 on June 16, 2008, 09:54:06 PM
EU-27
Treaty of Lisbon
All states must sign to pass the treaty.

Ratified = 18
Not yet ratified = 8
REJECTED = 1 (Ireland)

To EU residents, which state is next to reject the Treaty of Lisbon?
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: texasmom on June 16, 2008, 11:02:51 PM
I just loved reading about Ireland there. Big <S> Not because they rejected it, but because they listened to the voice of their people. So far have been the only Nation to bring the measure to a popular vote.  WTG Ireland!!!
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: Motherland on June 16, 2008, 11:29:37 PM
I'm far to lazy to google it. What's the treaty of Lisbon?
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: mg1942 on June 16, 2008, 11:34:18 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: texasmom on June 17, 2008, 01:55:18 AM
I like the editorial style writings on this page.  Some of the stuff on there's a little hokey, but what the heck.  Tag line caught my attention, referencing the book: 
"How the Irish Saved Civilization" part II?
http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/blog/2008/06/treaty-of-lisbon-irish-save.html
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: LLv34_Snefens on June 17, 2008, 03:36:48 AM
"voice of the people" ?

It's kind of scary that not even half the people bothered to take a stand.
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: Sharrk on June 17, 2008, 04:22:15 AM

There was just over 700,000 people who voted against the treaty, and they get to wield enough power to effect the whole of the EU.

Most had absolutely no idea of what was going on, there was no real effort made to inform "The People" of what the actual issues where, just a scare campaign telling them it will cost them. Cost them what they didnt say but the scary posters did the job anyway.

Those in government made pretty much zero real effort to inform these people of any said benifits that would come from this.

Will be interesting to see what comes of this.

Sharrk...
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: croduh on June 17, 2008, 04:52:04 AM
Hehe lucky us Croatians, we're special and the treaty does not affect us. :)
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: Dowding on June 17, 2008, 05:00:47 AM
Hey Croduh - was thinking of holidaying in Croatia next year. A few days in Split and a few days on Hvar island. Looks beautiful and we want to get there before you incorporate the Euro!
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: croduh on June 17, 2008, 05:10:38 AM
Anywhere you go in Croatia you are bound to have fun and be amazed at by the nature ;)

As for the Euro, don't worry, it will be at least 5 years till we get it.
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: Curval on June 17, 2008, 06:14:08 AM
I now have fingerprints on my monitor trying to crush the ant in mg1942's signature.
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: straffo on June 17, 2008, 06:45:34 AM
I just loved reading about Ireland there. Big <S> Not because they rejected it, but because they listened to the voice of their people. So far have been the only Nation to bring the measure to a popular vote.  WTG Ireland!!!

Voice of the people ?

862,415 have voted no ,with a total population EU of 497,198,740

How can this be representative ?


What piss me the most is the main reason why the Irish have voted no :
They were afraid to give money to new member EU like poland latvia ...

When Ireland sucked money from EU since decades.
This is just disgusting.

Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: storch on June 17, 2008, 06:51:51 AM
invade them and force them to see things your way.  after all that is the european way and two millinea of tradition should not be discounted.
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: Dowding on June 17, 2008, 07:16:28 AM
Quote
invade them and force them to see things your way.  after all that is the european way and two millinea of tradition should not be discounted.

Anyone else hear the sound of breaking glass? Must be coming from that glass bottom boat you use for trolling. Lookout!
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: storch on June 17, 2008, 07:48:54 AM
Anyone else hear the sound of breaking glass? Must be coming from that glass bottom boat you use for trolling. Lookout!
what?  is my statement in any way inaccurate or false?
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: Dowding on June 17, 2008, 08:02:09 AM
I would argue it is the 'way of mankind'. Global history backs my assertion up - you were being a little too specific.
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: soda72 on June 17, 2008, 08:05:54 AM
Didn't the south vote 'no' back in 1861?

 :D

darn yankees wouldn't let it go though...
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: texasmom on June 17, 2008, 08:32:46 AM
Voice of the people ?

862,415 have voted no ,with a total population EU of 497,198,740

How can this be representative ?


What piss me the most is the main reason why the Irish have voted no :
They were afraid to give money to new member EU like poland latvia ...

When Ireland sucked money from EU since decades.
This is just disgusting.

The Irish listened to the voice of their own people ahead of the 'hey, lets surrender all our sovereignty to the EU crowd.'    Who cares how many folks are in Europe?  Ireland is responsible first to the Irish!
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: 68Wooley on June 17, 2008, 08:44:57 AM
It does bring up the age old argument about the appropriateness of referendums:

Should you allow the populace to decide on issues they don't fully understand or should you leave that to the officials they elected specifically for that purpose? Of course, the fact that the officials in question are usually equally ill-informed doesn't help. In this case there also seems to have been something of a hijacking of the issues into a more general EU bashing by the Euro-sceptic faction.

And I have to admit, I do find it rich that the country that has - probably - gained most from EU membership at other countries expense has gotten cold feet when the time came to expend some of their new-found wealth on the new member states.
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: straffo on June 17, 2008, 09:09:09 AM
The Irish listened to the voice of their own people ahead of the 'hey, lets surrender all our sovereignty to the EU crowd.'    Who cares how many folks are in Europe?  Ireland is responsible first to the Irish!

why don't they leave !

they want the money but nothing else ?
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: storch on June 17, 2008, 09:14:43 AM
I would argue it is the 'way of mankind'. Global history backs my assertion up - you were being a little too specific.
what?  aren't we specifically discussing the EU proposal.  that has absolutely nothing to do with mankind.
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: texasmom on June 17, 2008, 09:30:55 AM
why don't they leave! they want the money but nothing else ?

LOL ~ why don't they leave their own country?  That's absurd.
Or do you mean the EU?  I do think that is worth considering for them!

Wait, or do you mean they should leave Europe entirely ~ just pack their stuff up & leave their land to more congenial folks... one's who would go along with every Tom, Dick & Harry that strolls along?

Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: straffo on June 17, 2008, 09:47:02 AM
I'm passionate because I pay tax for the EU and in return I get nothing.

I'm passionate also because I feel cheated , I don't understand why 800k people of a foreign country should have more power than all the others

You should know that in the current way EU is leaded a german or a french value a lot less than an Irish
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: texasmom on June 17, 2008, 09:50:07 AM
Sorry, that was a cheap shot that I took, and I hoped to have it deleted before it was read.
You're right in feeling passionately about it... But Ireland must be afforded the right to believe just as passionately about it on behalf of their own countrymen!

*edit* if you feel cheated by paying taxes & getting nothing in return ~ it's the responsiblity of France to take that up with the EU on your behalf!  Just as Ireland is doing.  Seems like they're an example to follow... not the little guy to bash because they've got gumption!
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: straffo on June 17, 2008, 09:55:42 AM
Yep,


Usually the vote for a EU treaty as it has almost zero impact locally is often a cheap and not risky way to protest against a government between real election.

I would be very surprised if more than 10% of the 800k people have read and understood the document.
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: texasmom on June 17, 2008, 09:58:52 AM
Yep,
Usually the vote for a EU treaty as it has almost zero impact locally is often a cheap and not risky way to protest against a government between real election.
I would be very surprised if more than 10% of the 800k people have read and understood the document.

How is that relevant to their right to vote 'No?'
If Yes was the only option, a vote wouldn't be necessary!
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: Shuckins on June 17, 2008, 10:05:27 AM
This is essentially the same treaty that France and Holland rejected two years ago.  It's been rewritten in an attempt to befuddle the opposition:  some critics state that it has been simply rearranged in order to make it incomprehensible to the public.  Also, some of the national legislatures of the countries voting on it, did not allow a national referendum.  This essentially takes the decision-making process out of the hands of the voting public, who don't know what's good for them.  Thus, those citizens who are opposed to it are, for all intents and purposes, disenfranchised.

The "problem" with Ireland, however, is that it's constitution requires a national referendum on matters such as this.

Ireland doesn't deserve the sole blame for this.  A large number of European countries have yet to vote on it, one way or the other.
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: Dowding on June 17, 2008, 11:41:28 AM
Don't be obtuse, Storch. Your point really related to human nature, a thread running right through human history. By saying it is the 'European way', you were effectively insinuating it was an idiosyncratic behaviour intrinisic to European politics. It isn't.
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: mg1942 on June 17, 2008, 11:49:48 AM
I now have fingerprints on my monitor trying to crush the ant in mg1942's signature.

 :P
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: Toad on June 17, 2008, 11:56:30 AM
Yeah, why should ordinary everyday people have a voice in matters that affect them?  :furious


It's disgusting.

Hey! I have an idea! Let the UN as a whole vote for Ireland! Yeah, that's the ticket! Whatever the UN General Assembly decides, Ireland has to do. Perfect. And fair.
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: Tac on June 17, 2008, 12:27:40 PM
mg.. i hate you sig.


*cleans fingerprints off screen*
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: Furball on June 17, 2008, 12:57:50 PM
I would argue it is the 'way of mankind'. Global history backs my assertion up - you were being a little too specific.

Storch is from some little spanish speaking country in the middle of the caribbean somewhere, i am guessing he is not used to voting ;)
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: storch on June 17, 2008, 03:20:46 PM
not true we invaded south florida on our way to total world domination
Title: Re: The Treaty of Lisbon 2008
Post by: storch on June 17, 2008, 03:38:52 PM
Don't be obtuse, Storch. Your point really related to human nature, a thread running right through human history. By saying it is the 'European way', you were effectively insinuating it was an idiosyncratic behaviour intrinisic to European politics. It isn't.
  sorry and of course you are correct.  you really are becoming no fun to troll.