Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: slipknot on June 19, 2008, 10:52:45 AM
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Anybody here battling chronic cholestrol issues? Just wondering how you deal with it and what sorts of things you've concluded after sifting through the research, doctors' opinions and common-wisdom.
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Anybody here battling chronic cholestrol issues? Just wondering how you deal with it and what sorts of things you've concluded after sifting through the research, doctors' opinions and common-wisdom.
as sad as it is.......... Zocor
statin drug that I know is not good to stay on....but it takes this and exercise to keep my numbers low.
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I'll be 48 in 1 week, and so far so good from my latest blood tests. No issues so far. I excercise, eat healthy foods (although I do go off the wagon more often than not!)
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If your diet is crappy you can start with that. Decrease total fat, especially saturated fat, and cholesterol (although dietary cholesterol actually has a pretty small effect). If you're really serious about it, a vegetarian diet is pretty effective. Aerobic exercise is also helpful.
With these changes, most people can reduce LDL-cholesterol by 5-15%. Any more than that, you're probably gonna need drugs.
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Unless your doc says you HAVE to have prescription meds, the way to go is non-drug.
Walk.
Reduce red meat--go more with fish (baked or grilled) especially, then chicken.
Take 3,000 u of Omega 3 fish Oil tablets a day.
Diet & excercise can work wonders. I am going through it right now.
Good luck!!!!
ROX
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If your diet is crappy you can start with that. Decrease total fat, especially saturated fat, and cholesterol (although dietary cholesterol actually has a pretty small effect). If you're really serious about it, a vegetarian diet is pretty effective. Aerobic exercise is also helpful.
With these changes, most people can reduce LDL-cholesterol by 5-15%. Any more than that, you're probably gonna need drugs.
I keep a strict diet. No cheese, cream of any kind, only skim or non-fat milk on the rare occasions that I have it. Lots of fruit and veg and fish and, as ripsnort says, I go off the wagon about one meal a week--I'm working on decreasing this, though too.
I read the label of every food item I put into my mouth, and make sure to keep saturated fat to about 6-8 grams a day, or about 1/3 that of a normal person. Same with cholesterol. I generally avoid any food where more than 1/3 of the calories are from fat.
I take fish oil tablets, metamucil, and niaspan. Still can't get it below 200. My ratios are good, though. HDL is 46. Still, given my relative youth, and my family history, my doctor isn't happy and I don't blame him.
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Red rice yeast if you don't want the statins. If you're doing all that already, diet mods alone won't take you where you want to go.
I do have some experience in this. Went from ~225 to 95 total cholesterol in 3 months by going STRICTLY vegetarian, totally no fat, totally no cholesterol with a 20 mg dose of Lipitor at the same time. Not fun at all, but I was pretty scared at the time.
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damn Toad, that is pretty crazy indeed... did you ever have a heart scan to determine blockage levels?
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If your body is producing an excess of cholesterol a medication may be your only option. You are far from alone BTW. I had a chemical change that totally reversed my cholesterol ratios. My good was about 3 to 4 times the bad, now it's bad almost twice as much as the good, unmedicated. :(
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If your body is producing an excess of cholesterol a medication may be your only option. You are far from alone BTW. I had a chemical change that totally reversed my cholesterol ratios. My good was about 3 to 4 times the bad, now it's bad almost twice as much as the good, unmedicated. :(
Any idea what caused the change?
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damn Toad, that is pretty crazy indeed... did you ever have a heart scan to determine blockage levels?
A heart scan generated the extreme desire to lower my cholesterol. It showed an estimated 95% blockage of the LAD. Turned out it was actually 98% according to the Doc that did the stenting.
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A heart scan generated the extreme desire to lower my cholesterol. It showed an estimated 95% blockage of the LAD. Turned out it was actually 98% according to the Doc that did the stenting.
May I ask how old you are(or were when the stent was put in) and whether there was any way of determining how long your condition had been developing?
I had a scan 2 years ago, when my total cholestrol peaked at 280. The result was 0 blockage but my total is still right around 200 and I'm not getting any younger.
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Any idea what caused the change?
My thyroid went pretty much off line. It's a genetic thing and follows my Mothers family along with other things like diabetis and breast cancer.
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I hope you're better now Maverick.
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Two prescriptions, both rather inexpensive, keep the situation under control. The thyroid is a rather permanent situation but taking a pill once a day is pretty darn easy to live with. It's funny how much control it has over your system.
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I was 51. The don't give you any timeline but the consensus is that in most people that get blocked it develops over quite a few years.
I think (with pretty good reason) that one of the key indicators is heredity. I have a very good friend that has done studies on it and he's convinced that heredity is about the best indicator. Do you have close family members that have had coronary obstructions?
With a score of zero, assuming you are somewhere around 50, I'd suspect that you have the right genes to mostly avoid blockages. Things happen, things change but if you're midlife with a zero Agatston score I think your posted cholesterol numbers are not a major problem. The scans don't "see" soft or "vulnerable plaque" in the artery wall itself though. One of those pops and it is severely bad ju-ju. I think they scan for those with an ultrasound head on the catheter. I know the Cleveland Clinic was doing those but I'd think you'd have to have some symptoms to justify the procedure.
Something else can always go wrong but.. hey! look out for that semi!
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Had probs with mine for awhile until I listened to the wifey and did the ol secret Asian cure for it. My Dr once told me that I'm a walking Stroke just waiting to happen, sent me to a Cardiac Maniac for an AngioPlasty thingy.. ya know the probe up the groin into the heart then inject dye? My Dr thought for sure they'd find blockage due to the cholesterol levels and my shortness of breath, periods of profound unprovoked sweatin. Dr even blocked out 5 days for a hospital stay for stents, balloons, bypass or whatever they found. I'm layin there and the Cardiac Maniac states "Whoa this is rare.." Thought I was gonna buy the farm right there... he spun the monitor around and said look...*like I know what the hell to look for....* He says you have a extra artery coming from the left ventricle no wonder you had a few probs. Your heart is trying to push more blood out than what is coming into it. Arteries were clean as a young mans. I walked out the same day I walked in... groin hurt like hell though. But was happy. Placed me on meds and never had a prob since then.
Ohhh the wifeys secret Asian cure... well it still works too.
:aok
Mac
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Couple of years ago I was having fluttering sensations in my chest. So, my doc sent me to a heart specialist to have a nuclear stress test. Passed it with flying colors....no blockages.
But...my cholesterol is high, so I take Vytorin at night. I'm not eating as much beef as I used to, but I could stand to cut it back even more.
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You can all trust me on this... the heart scan is FAR more reliable an indicator than any sort of stress test.
The stress test can be wrong 10% of the time. The heart scan, if it shows calcium, is almost 98% reliable.
A stress test can tell you there's a blockage when there is not and can just as easily tell you there is no blockage when there IS a blockage.
Short story: A stress test is OLD technology. Time for it to go away. As a bonus, the heart scans are ~$200 now, a fraction of the cost of a stress test.
If you have any doubt.. get a stress test. 15 minutes, $200 bucks, 98+% reliable.
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I was 51. The don't give you any timeline but the consensus is that in most people that get blocked it develops over quite a few years.
I think (with pretty good reason) that one of the key indicators is heredity. I have a very good friend that has done studies on it and he's convinced that heredity is about the best indicator. Do you have close family members that have had coronary obstructions?
With a score of zero, assuming you are somewhere around 50, I'd suspect that you have the right genes to mostly avoid blockages. Things happen, things change but if you're midlife with a zero Agatston score I think your posted cholesterol numbers are not a major problem. The scans don't "see" soft or "vulnerable plaque" in the artery wall itself though. One of those pops and it is severely bad ju-ju. I think they scan for those with an ultrasound head on the catheter. I know the Cleveland Clinic was doing those but I'd think you'd have to have some symptoms to justify the procedure.
Something else can always go wrong but.. hey! look out for that semi!
I'm nowhere near 50. 2 decades away from it, in fact. My dad had a quadrouple bypass at 41, with a total cholesterol of 170. His lifestyle was different. Smoked, didn't watch his diet, didn't work out, worked about 80-90 hours a week in one of the most stressfull jobs in existance. One day it hit him. He was back at work 2 weeks later and 15 years later, had a mitral valve replaced due to damage incurred during the infarction. Today he's in his 60s, still working, still eating freely. No more smoking and he sees his cardiologist regularly. He takes a buffet of pills and his blood is very closely controlled.
My mom has a total cholestrol of right around 300, and has no blockage. Grandpop on her side is 104 and still active.
To make a long story short, I've got a good mix of genes, but the risk factor is present enough that they started to actively monitor and treat this problem well before my 30th birthday.
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best thing in the world is to have good blood work done...with specific attention paid to blood protein levels. even "bad" cholesterol is not necessarily bad...it depends if it's got the ingredients to take the next step to harden.....and that relates to protein levels. It's something most blood work will not show unless you ask them to specifically test it.
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I'll be 48 in 1 week,
have a Happy Birthday Mr.Potatohead.
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I don't think you'd have a lot of calcium at 30 unless you had really bad genes. From what I've read, you should probably retest every 5 years or so and work on keeping the cholesterol down. 200 isn't the end of the world, but with a history they probably want you below 150 total.
So you have heart disease on your father's side of the family. Any others on that side? Uncles, Grandfathers, Aunts, etc? If there are, I'd go ahead and get on one of the statins now. Low dose to aid your already fairly good diet/exercise plan. At least that's what my friend that does the research suggests. The statins have some other benefits besides lowering cholesterol.
Of course, I'm not a doctor but I do stay in Holiday Inn's now and then.
G'luck.
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(http://www.the-hug.org/paul/pix/lard.jpg)
Lard, the Other white grease.
Lard and Peanut Butter sammiches...
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my cholesterol count was up there. i wiped out a meal. i have a late breakfast/lunch. i have my last meal by 6p.m. any snacks after 6 was plain cherrios w/splenda. my count dropped like a rock.
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flax seeds, raw oatmeal, excercise and reduced fatty foods does it for me.
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flax seeds, raw oatmeal, excercise and reduced fatty foods does it for me.
uncooked oatmeal? or just unprocessed as in instant?
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a brimming tablespoon of uncooked steel cut oatmeal downed with a few ounces of water twice daily. be ready to discharge the first few days.
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Read Eat to Live (http://www.amazon.com/Eat-Live-Revolutionary-Formula-Sustained/dp/0316829455). Follow it and it's pretty much guaranteed to bring your cholesterol back to normal, regardless of your genes. I would also recommend it to any diabetics that are interested in curing their diabetes.
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I had a stent put in about 8-9 years ago. My right coronary artery was 95% blocked. Immediatley after, they put me on Lipitor, Toprol and Plavix. That remained the same until I moved from NY back to MN.
Since I moved back to MN, I've been going to get my blood drawn and visiting the doc about every 3-4 months. They've changed my meds and doses regularily. I can't even remember what all I take now but there's a staten, a blood thinner, a beta blocker, SloNiacin, Fish Oil and something else i think.
My total Cholesterol is good and has been for quite a while but my HDL never seems to move up to where it's supposed to be. My triglycerides went from over 600 at the time of my stent to now under 200.
I eat a reasonably low fat, low cholesterol, low sugar diet. I met with a dietition and she really couldn't find anything in my diet to correct. I exercise most days.
I guess people react differently to different meds, thus all the experimentation and trial and error I've been through the past few years with this. My Dr. is really intent on getting all my numbers fixed even if it kills one of us.
[EDIT] BTW, I get those fluttering sensations in my chest too. It's an arythmia in the upper heart chamber and that's what the beta blockers are for. Both the Doc in NY and the one in MN say it's nothing to worry about.
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A heart scan generated the extreme desire to lower my cholesterol. It showed an estimated 95% blockage of the LAD. Turned out it was actually 98% according to the Doc that did the stenting.
:O Damn! :O
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Reduce red meat--go more with fish (baked or grilled) especially, then chicken.
ROX
blech!
No idea what mine is. Im afraid to find out.
All I know is if its high.
Im going to be told to cut down on the foods I like. And to eat more of the foods I hate.
Or to cook foods in a manner which will make me not like them.
I have made some concessions though.
I've recently stopped frying everything in butter and have changed to olive oil.
And olive oil and garlic whenever possible
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blech!
No idea what mine is. Im afraid to find out.
All I know is if its high.
Im going to be told to cut down on the foods I like. And to eat more of the foods I hate.
Or to cook foods in a manner which will make me not like them.
When you're in the ambulance sweating with an elephant standing on your chest, getting to eat BigMacs won't seem so important.
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Lets just say my doc. mentioned that if my levels had been this high since my last blood exam (when I was like 16... 14 years ago) ... he didnt know how I was still alive.
My cholesterol wasnt the problem. Triglycerides were. normal levels 150 mine were 980+. Even with strongest medication it only goes down to 230. My cholesterol levels though, were normal. Sometimes even a bit UNDER normal.
Since most things that lower cholesterol also lower trig's, here's what I know works for me:
Oatmeal. Real oatmeal flakes not powdered instant stuff. one, preferably 2, cups of it a day lowered my levels by about 15%. That was pretty big. Great for digestion too.
Omega-3 supplements.
Replace red meats with fish and chicken, avoid greasy cooking (that is, Fried chicken doesnt count!).
Seaweed. Believe it or not, its almost as good as oatmeal.
Niacin supplements / foods. Niacin is 5X better than oatmeal and Omega 3 combined. Problem is the stuff gives you unpleasant side effects... like flushing. Imagine being sunburned in every millimeter of your body.. you turn bright red, it itches like hell just like when you sunburned.. super sensitive to touch...
and you feel it under your fingernails, inside your buttcheeks, behind your ears.. in your lips.. inside your eyelids. Currently taking minimal doses and working my way up to the recommended amount.
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Late to the thread, sorry... I had 2 stents put in November of '06. I'm taking lipitor, plavix, atenolol, lisinopril and asprin. I've changed my diet from red meat to chicken and veg. My problem is getting my triglycerides under control.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,191714.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,191714.0.html)
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Niacin supplements / foods. Niacin is 5X better than oatmeal and Omega 3 combined. Problem is the stuff gives you unpleasant side effects... like flushing. Imagine being sunburned in every millimeter of your body.. you turn bright red, it itches like hell just like when you sunburned.. super sensitive to touch...
and you feel it under your fingernails, inside your buttcheeks, behind your ears.. in your lips.. inside your eyelids. Currently taking minimal doses and working my way up to the recommended amount.
Niaspan was kind of like that for me but not that severe. I quit taking it.
Now I take 1500 mg of SloNiacin each day with no problems. It's timed release, it's really helped out my triglycerides and it's over the counter.
As to diet I haven't cut out burgers, steak, pizza, sausage, etc. but I make sure I have chicken, fish or turkey more days than not. I also eat a lot more fruits and veggies. Everyhing bad in moderation.
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Good thread for the young guys to read, might I add.
Toad and I have posted back and forth about this a lot. I have high cholesterol, just inheritied. French ancestry. I figure we all have veins full of gravy or something. My family history shows us stroking out in our 70s to 80s, so we do not have a "terrible" history. Those that went sooner were smokers. And of course, knowing what we know now kind of thing.
It wasn't until a coworker had a heart attack that something scared the heck out of me. He was a 2-pack a day smoker, no exercise and out fast food a lot. He was an on-the-road copier repair guy and went home one night, got the cold sweats and called 911. He survived and is alright now, but what freaked me out was he was on 42 or so when this happened. For whatever reason, at 34, this to me was like lightening striking a few feet away from you. It was time to see what could happen if you do not take care of yourself, so smarten up!
My cholesterol wasnt terrible, always in the 220s with the HDL in the mid 50s. Trigs 99. But once they lowered the bar to 200, suddenly I went from slightly high to this new approach of OMG-GET-IT-LOWER.
I did really well on Lipitor, dropping it to 162 but I ached and ached from that med. I tried many of Toad's suggestions and changed the diet radically since 2004. With my Dr's help, we tried as many non-medical ways to lower it, including niacin. If you ever wanted to know what a woman goes through with hotflashes, niacin is your trip! That made my HDL (good stuff) soar, but for me, it brought the other stuff up too. I did niacin for 4 months and got tested twice, I was 270 and 285. Not where we want to go!
Since then, I'm on pravastatin and do not get the aching. (Vytorin made my back feel like I went 9 rounds with George Foreman) My last few tests have steadily gone down, I hit 199 in Jan (HDL 52) but burbled up to 213 in March (HDL 55). My doctor upped my statin from 10mg to 20mg to push me under 200.
Working at a hospital is quite an enlightening experience. I walk by the cath lab daily and I cringe when I see guys in their 30s and 40s in there. Thankfully, for employees, they offer a lot of free screenings for stroke prevention and the like. While I have never had the resources to do a heart scan like Toad did, I was able to get a free ultrasound of my cartoid arteries (neck) and I came up all clear. Most insurances will cover a good deal of preventative care items, so ask your doctor what's available.
If you are into reading about these things, I would suggest the Dr Oz book "You: The Owner's Manual" amongst others.
A few nutritional tips I would pass along...
1. Do a daily vitamin. I like the GNC Heart Health Vita-packets.
2. If you take a statin, consider adding CoQ10 supplements since its an important heart health item and statins turn off that enzyme to slow cholesterol protection. I take 100mg in the morning and another at night.
3. Alpha Lipoic acid. It recycles the antioxidants in your system. Think of your system like an engine and free radicals are like "rust" in your lines. Keep em clear.
4. Pomegranate juice. Its been shown to reduce plaque, it literally melts it away. Google it, research it.
5. Green tea. Not only does it hydrate you better but it thins the blood.
6. Baby asprin. 162mg a day. Reduces inflammation and thins the blood as well, helping prevent clotting.
7. Fish oil.
8. EXERCISE! 30 minutes a day if you can. Not only will you drop weight but you make your heart stronger.
9. Watch your waist. If your waist size is over 40 (or 35 for a female), you are at greater risk.
And finally (can you tell I've researched this heavily?)...cholesterol is just one aspect of heart disease. While its good to reduce cholesterol, what's your blood pressure? High blood pressure does more damage than the high cholesterol (or so I have read). Remember, people with low cholesterol have heart attacks too.
Finally, have you had your blood checked for any genetic variations? My family has the Luten V factor thing ,which just means our blood is apt to go overboard clotting a cut. Its something we need to let Dr's know before any surgery, etc.
Let us know how you make out on your next test.
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In my case the cure was worse than the problem.I try and handle the situation by watching my diet,and exercising.Simivastin was slowy killing me.I think all the anti-chloresteral drugs are poison.
Dobe
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Good thread for the young guys to read, might I add.
Toad and I have posted back and forth about this a lot. I have high cholesterol, just inheritied. French ancestry. I figure we all have veins full of gravy or something. My family history shows us stroking out in our 70s to 80s, so we do not have a "terrible" history. Those that went sooner were smokers. And of course, knowing what we know now kind of thing.
It wasn't until a coworker had a heart attack that something scared the heck out of me. He was a 2-pack a day smoker, no exercise and out fast food a lot. He was an on-the-road copier repair guy and went home one night, got the cold sweats and called 911. He survived and is alright now, but what freaked me out was he was on 42 or so when this happened. For whatever reason, at 34, this to me was like lightening striking a few feet away from you. It was time to see what could happen if you do not take care of yourself, so smarten up!
My cholesterol wasnt terrible, always in the 220s with the HDL in the mid 50s. Trigs 99. But once they lowered the bar to 200, suddenly I went from slightly high to this new approach of OMG-GET-IT-LOWER.
I did really well on Lipitor, dropping it to 162 but I ached and ached from that med. I tried many of Toad's suggestions and changed the diet radically since 2004. With my Dr's help, we tried as many non-medical ways to lower it, including niacin. If you ever wanted to know what a woman goes through with hotflashes, niacin is your trip! That made my HDL (good stuff) soar, but for me, it brought the other stuff up too. I did niacin for 4 months and got tested twice, I was 270 and 285. Not where we want to go!
Since then, I'm on pravastatin and do not get the aching. (Vytorin made my back feel like I went 9 rounds with George Foreman) My last few tests have steadily gone down, I hit 199 in Jan (HDL 52) but burbled up to 213 in March (HDL 55). My doctor upped my statin from 10mg to 20mg to push me under 200.
Working at a hospital is quite an enlightening experience. I walk by the cath lab daily and I cringe when I see guys in their 30s and 40s in there. Thankfully, for employees, they offer a lot of free screenings for stroke prevention and the like. While I have never had the resources to do a heart scan like Toad did, I was able to get a free ultrasound of my cartoid arteries (neck) and I came up all clear. Most insurances will cover a good deal of preventative care items, so ask your doctor what's available.
If you are into reading about these things, I would suggest the Dr Oz book "You: The Owner's Manual" amongst others.
A few nutritional tips I would pass along...
1. Do a daily vitamin. I like the GNC Heart Health Vita-packets.
2. If you take a statin, consider adding CoQ10 supplements since its an important heart health item and statins turn off that enzyme to slow cholesterol protection. I take 100mg in the morning and another at night.
3. Alpha Lipoic acid. It recycles the antioxidants in your system. Think of your system like an engine and free radicals are like "rust" in your lines. Keep em clear.
4. Pomegranate juice. Its been shown to reduce plaque, it literally melts it away. Google it, research it.
5. Green tea. Not only does it hydrate you better but it thins the blood.
6. Baby asprin. 162mg a day. Reduces inflammation and thins the blood as well, helping prevent clotting.
7. Fish oil.
8. EXERCISE! 30 minutes a day if you can. Not only will you drop weight but you make your heart stronger.
9. Watch your waist. If your waist size is over 40 (or 35 for a female), you are at greater risk.
And finally (can you tell I've researched this heavily?)...cholesterol is just one aspect of heart disease. While its good to reduce cholesterol, what's your blood pressure? High blood pressure does more damage than the high cholesterol (or so I have read). Remember, people with low cholesterol have heart attacks too.
Finally, have you had your blood checked for any genetic variations? My family has the Luten V factor thing ,which just means our blood is apt to go overboard clotting a cut. Its something we need to let Dr's know before any surgery, etc.
Let us know how you make out on your next test.
what he said....
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Baby asprin. 162mg a day. Reduces inflammation and thins the blood as well, helping prevent clotting.
Most baby aspirin is 81 mg. Taking aspirin daily increases risk of gastrointestinal bleeding and perforation, so check with your doctor first to see if your risk of coronary artery disease is high enough to offset the risk of GI bleeding (it's not for everybody).