Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: badhorse on June 22, 2008, 07:05:51 PM
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Can someone tell me why the Spit 14 is perked? I took one up just to see what it was all about. A P-51 out ran it. Guns are nothing special. Just curious.
And yes I did run a search first, got 40 pages.
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Exactly. It shouldn't be.
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I think they just forgot it when they unperked the Ta-152H ;)
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Ask Krusty He'll be more than happy to explain it to you. :rofl :rofl
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You obviously havnt ran into someone that knows how to fly it at its strenths, or one at 20k for that matter.
:noid
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You obviously havnt ran into someone that knows how to fly it at its strenths
:noid
You can say that about many, many more planes... perk the 109K! :D
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I've been flying it regularly this camp. I've been able to run down P-51D's, La-7's and Doras and when you catch them it will out-turn and out-climb them. What's not to love?
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I've been flying it regularly this camp. I've been able to run down P-51D's, La-7's and Doras and when you catch them it will out-turn and out-climb them. What's not to love?
Handling. Short range.
BTW, the k-4 can run down and easily out-climb the three mentioned planes too (it's faster than Spit XIV up to 25k), and outturn them all with same ease with the expection of the La7.
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Can someone tell me why the Spit 14 is perked? I took one up just to see what it was all about. A P-51 out ran it. Guns are nothing special. Just curious.
And yes I did run a search first, got 40 pages.
Since when was two hispano lazers nothing special? :rofl
<S>...-Gixer
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Handling. Short range.
BTW, the k-4 can run down and easily out-climb the three mentioned planes too (it's faster than Spit XIV up to 25k), and outturn them all with same ease with the expection of the La7.
However, the XIV will out-turn the K-4. It also holds E very well, and it can do vertical like a champ.
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However, the XIV will out-turn the K-4. It also holds E very well, and it can do vertical like a champ.
Not by much, mate. I'd also wager that the 109's superior flaps would close that gap even further.
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However, the XIV will out-turn the K-4. It also holds E very well, and it can do vertical like a champ.
They are very similar in the vertical, and while the 14 does indeed turn better than the K4, the difference is not big enough to offset the very "wobbly" handling (similar to the unperked Ta 152)
During 2007, the Spit XIV managed to get only a total K/D of 0.88 vs the 109K4. That's horrible, especially when considering it's perked status prevents excessive usage by new / "unskilled" players.
And the Spit 14 did not perform much better vs the rest of the planeset either...
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K4 ist der ueber? :D
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The funny thing is you could un-perk the 14 and it still wouldnt get that much use.
The Spit-16 is the uber-fighter in the game.
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The funny thing is you could un-perk the 14 and it still wouldnt get that much use.
The Spit-16 is the uber-fighter in the game.
Exactly
<S>...-Gixer
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Here is my verbose, and as well researched as is possible for this game, thread about Unperking the Spitfire Mk XIV. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,226581.0.html)
And the opening post:
Here are what I think are the relevant statistics. I listed all the perk fighters because the Spitfire Mk XIV is perked and should be compared in kill/death ratio and usage with its fellow perk fighters. I selected the unperked fighters by picking high usage, powerful fighters that, with the exception of the La-7, tend to draw more experienced and better players to them. I think that using this selection of unperked fighters is fair as the people that tend to fly perk planes tend to be at least moderately experienced and to fly in a more conservative manner. I included both the post-perk Ta152H-1 and pre-perk F4U-1C as a comparison with the Spitfire Mk XIV's current performance.
Late War Tour 96, 1-01-08 to 1-31-08
Perked fighters in order of their kill/death ratios:
Tempest has 6136 Kills of All models and all models have 945 Kills of Tempest. 6.49 to 1 kill/death ratio.
Me 262 has 4103 Kills of All models and all models have 698 Kills of Me 262. 5.88 to 1 kill/death ratio.
Me 163B has 790 Kills of All models and all models have 160 Kills of Me 163B. 4.94 to 1 kill/death ratio.
F4U-1C has 9910 Kills of All models and all models have 3875 Kills of F4U-1C. 2.56 to 1 kill/death ratio.
F4U-4 has 2754 Kills of All models and all models have 1256 Kills of F4U-4. 2.19 to 1 kill/death ratio.
Spitfire Mk XIV has 1454 Kills of All models and all models have 1139 Kills of Spitfire Mk XIV. 1.28 to 1 kill/death ratio.
Unperked fighters with high kill/death ratios and medium to high usage, in order of their kill/death ratios:
Bf 109K-4 has 9344 Kills of All models and all models have 5981 Kills of Bf 109K-4. 1.56 to 1 kill/death ratio.
Typhoon IB has 17053 Kills of All models and all models have 11094 Kills of Typhoon IB. 1.54 to 1 kill/death ratio.
Ta 152H has 2999 Kills of All models and all models have 2042 Kills of Ta 152H. 1.47 to 1 kill/death ratio.
Ki-84-Ia has 9016 Kills of All models and all models have 6224 Kills of Ki-84-Ia. 1.45 to 1 kill/death ratio.
P-38J has 6562 Kills of All models and all models have 4525 Kills of P-38J. 1.45 to 1 kill/death ratio.
Fw 190D-9 has 13943 Kills of All models and all models have 9865 Kills of Fw 190D-9. 1.41 to 1 kill/death ratio.
La-7 has 33201 Kills of All models and all models have 26480 Kills of La-7. 1.25 to 1 kill/death ratio.
F4U-1A has 6568 Kills of All models and all models have 5381 Kills of F4U-1A. 1.22 to 1 kill/death ratio.
Tour 15, 4-01-01 to 4-30-01, the final tour with an unperked F4U-1C:
F4U-1C has 27717 Kills of All models and all models have 20022 Kills of F4U-1C. 1.38 to 1 kill/death ratio.
What do these statistics tell us? One, the Spitfire Mk XIV has, by far, the lowest kill/death ratio of any perked fighter. Two, the Spitfire Mk XIV has the lowest usage of any perked fighter save the Me163, and that is limited to one base per country. Three, unique among perk fighters, the Spitfire Mk XIV has a lower kill/death ratio than many unperked fighters. Four, the perked Spitfire Mk XIV has a lower kill/death ratio than the recently unperked Ta152H-1. Five, the perked Spitfire Mk XIV has a lower kill/death ratio than the unperked F4U-1C did despite the fact that the F4U-1C was at the time, by far, the most popular fighter and was used by more unskilled players than any other fighter.
What do I think an unperked Spitfire Mk XIV would be like? It would probably see higher usage in Spitfires than any of them other than the Spitfire Mk XVI and Spitfire Mk VIII, though the Spitfire Mk IX might also see heavier usage. It would probably have the highest kill/death ratio of any Spitfire. I doubt it would be a popular fighter after the initial "Ooh, it's free!" period had worn off and would instead find a solid place in the second tier of fighters used by more experienced players who can manage the quirks of these fighters. It does not handle like any other Spitfire and would be offputting to most casual Spitfire users.
I think the Spitfire Mk XIV is a good fighter, but nothing worth spending perk points on. As such, it should follow the Ta152H-1's example and be unperked.
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I support this motion! The only time I've run into a Spit 14 at a high altitude was when I was up there in a 152. What could have been a great fight turned into a 2 turn 'Oops, Spit lost its position better dive to the deck from 30k' waste of time.
Perhaps if the perk is removed (not that the 10 - 14 perks it usually carries in particularly inhibitive) people won't fly it like girls and dive for the deck at the first sign of losing their advantage.
To be honest, I've only shot down a few Spit 14s.... the rest have snapped their wings off in close proximity to me. I don't see the Spit 14 as any real threat and certainly no more so than the Spit 16 at common altitudes.
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To be honest, I've only shot down a few Spit 14s.... the rest have snapped their wings off in close proximity to me. I don't see the Spit 14 as any real threat and certainly no more so than the Spit 16 at common altitudes.
Oh yeah... there is that not to love. Done that this camp. The darned thing carries so much speed you've really got to be careful not to overload and snap the wings off.
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I say unperk it. Those stats by Karnak are extremely convincing.
[hijack]Why does the Spitfire 14 lose its wings more easily than other Spitfires?[/hijack]
<S>
Yossarian
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Even I "The All-Mighty SpittyDweeb!" think the 14 should be unperked and the 16 perked.
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I say unperk it. Those stats by Karnak are extremely convincing.
[hijack]Why does the Spitfire 14 lose its wings more easily than other Spitfires?[/hijack]
<S>
Yossarian
The stats really just mean that many people who fly it don't actually know how to use it properly. When you use it the way it's supposed to be used, it's an outright monster, and the perk price is more than reasonable. It's got speed. It's got ridiculous acceleration and climb rate. It turns well. Its aileron performance is excellent. Its guns package is fantastic. It also has decent range, to boot.
It's not meant for low-altitude drudge fights at stall speeds, which is where I almost always encounter them. It's an E fighter through and through, quite evenly matched with the F4U-4 Corsair. And let us not forget that aside from turn rate at low altitude, the XIV outclasses the XVI in every respect (guns package is the same, of course).
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The stats really just mean that many people who fly it don't actually know how to use it properly.
Again, you can say that about many, many other planes in game. Actually most planes stats suffer from people who do know how to fly them properly. There is no reason the Spit 14 has a proportional higher number of pilots not being able to utilize it's strenghts than other planes - The fact that it is already perked does keep the ever crashing 2-weekers out and usually results in some more cautious flying (don't lose that perks!) by the other pilots.
And let's not forget why the concept of "perk" was introduced at all:
The perk system is a way for HTC to introduce some interesting but otherwise unbalancing planes on a limited basis but the benefits go deeper than that. Perk planes (and vehicles) would be things like Me 262s, Ta 152s, Tempests, B-29s, Ar 234s, Tiger IIs, etc. These are interesting rides but would be very unbalancing if they were available on an unlimited basis. So there won't be unlimited availability but they'll be available as bonuses or perks every so often.
It's about the effect the plane has on the MA. And yes, looking at the Stats is a very valid way to examine how a given plane is having on the MA's. And it's a quite objective one:
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5287/kdyo1ab6.jpg)
Perk fighters are marked in red, blue is the now unperked Ta 152. You also should bear in mind that many planes with even lower K/D do suffer from the fact that they are used for a lot of ground work - bombing CV's, porking fields and other suicide runs. This is not the case with the Spit 14, which is a pure fighter without any ord loadout.
Some absolute numbers from that year
F4U-V 123,000 kills
Tempest 84,000 kills
Me 262 49,000 kills
F4U-4 43,000 kills
Me 163 19,000 kills
Spit XIV 17,000 kills
Note that the XIV has even less kills than the highly restricted Me 163
The Spit 14 is very comparable in pure performance to the 109K. Yes, on paper it is better in some aspects, but that alone justifies a lower ENY, not a PERK status.
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thats why i love you lusche :lol all these colorful charts and stats
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I have to agree (reluctantly <S>) with Lusche... down low they perform like a spit IX. Above 15K the XIV is in its element. If only I wouldn't get so greedy when I'm in one and get down in the dirt! :lol
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Its aileron performance is excellent.
How so? Spitfire aileron performance, other than the Mk XVI and Mk I, are midrange. The Mk XIV's massive torque actually prevents it from rolling against the torque when going fast.
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Spit14, is a monster 15k or higher. But where MA fights are its a pure dog, and its fuel guzzlin engine makes it avery short range fighter. The only saving grace for it down low in a fight is its climb rate.
the other spits are better MA fighters then the 14 is @ MA alt fights.
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The spit14 is the P51 or 190D of the spitfires. All is has is speed.
:noid
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Since when was two hispano lazers nothing special? :rofl
<S>...-Gixer
Exactly. The pair of .50s riding side car are no joke either. And thats not to mention turning, climb rate, speed, and acceleration. Little things like those cant be important.
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Exactly. The pair of .50s riding side car are no joke either. And thats not to mention turning, climb rate, speed, and acceleration. Little things like those cant be important.
Yes, yet the Spitfire Mk XIV is practically unused and has a horrible K/D ratio for a perk plane. Maybe, just maybe, there are aspects of performance that you aren't thinking of?
And FYI, it doesn't turn particularly well.
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The spit14 is the P51 or 190D of the spitfires. All is has is speed.
:noid
Until it gets up to 10K+. Fought 2 Spit 16's in a Spit 14 one time at 10K, and was able to hold them off until our horde caught up with me. Killed 1 of them and the other RTB'd smoking. One of my favorite sorties. :D Even got into a turn fight with a 109 (forget what model, think it was one of the G's). Fight went on for a good 6-7 mins before I ran out of fuel. The 109 let me go to, which was very admirable.
The Spit 14 is the worst of all Spitfires in the turn.....until you get it up high :devil
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Love the way dweebfire sticks still find something to complain about with (other then for a couple other perk rides) easily the two best planes in the game Mk.XIV & MkXVI.
Climb rates touching 5,000 fpm, speed 350mph+,maneuverability,hispanos and your still not happy? :rofl
You can't take anything from K/D for any aircraft as a indicator of performance. Luckily top tier rides attract newbies and those that like to fly easy mode. Hence they are always going to have a bad K/D compared to the planes actual ability which is phenomenal compared to almost anything else.
<S>...-Gixer
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Love the way dweebfire sticks still find something to complain about with (other then for a couple other perk rides) easily the two best planes in the game Mk.XIV & MkXVI.
Climb rates touching 5,000 fpm, speed 350mph+,maneuverability,hispanos and your still not happy? :rofl
You can't take anything from K/D for any aircraft as a indicator of performance. Luckily top tier rides attract newbies and those that like to fly easy mode. Hence they are always going to have a bad K/D compared to the planes actual ability which is phenomenal compared to almost anything else.
<S>...-Gixer
Your logic is flawed.
First, it's not about aircraft theoretical performance (which is more than mere pure numbers, handling is very important too), but the impact of a plane on gameplay. Spit XiV has none. Why perking a planes that isn't only rarely used, but doesn't win it's fights more than the "average" plane.
Second have the other perked "top tier" planes such a high k/d when compared to the Spit 14. And newbies can't fly the 14 because of ot perk status, and the number clearly prove that they are not trying. It's undoubtable that much more newbies fly the unperked spit XVI, the La-7, the N1k, yet the k/d's are almost the same...
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Climb rates touching 5,000 fpm, speed 350mph+,maneuverability,hispanos and your still not happy? :rofl
Climb rates for both the XVI and the XIV are closer to 3500 ft/min without WEP. The XVI actually out-climbs the XIV from ~18-23K but the XIV's better on both sides of that.
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1 thing i noticed when testing the 14 was a habit to go flat between 16 and 18k on power due to the supercharger not kicking in till about 18k. You really have to manage your fuel well in the MA also with the burn rate being totally against you. When you put all the MA handicaps in place the spit 14 in this day and age of the MA should not be perked at all. Perk the spit 16 IMO.
I think if you unperked it you'd start seeing it lurking up way high like it used to and picking unsuspecting victims off at will. The reason it didn't show a high usage in 2007 is due to the facts i and others have stated. Why fly a perk plane that is meant to perform above 15k when you can fly an unperked bird for free and all the fights are 15k or lower?
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I think if you unperked it you'd start seeing it lurking up way high like it used to and picking unsuspecting victims off at will. The reason it didn't show a high usage in 2007 is due to the facts i and others have stated. Why fly a perk plane that is meant to perform above 15k when you can fly an unperked bird for free and all the fights are 15k or lower?
It will see more usage for sure, and that's no bad thing as such. But it's very doubtful that it would go from "hardly encountered" to "dominating" status. An unperked 14 would probaly still not even come anywhere close to Spit ( or 16 usage numbers.
There were similar arguments when the TA 152 was still perked, based on it's massive armament and better high alt performance. But after the perk status was gone, we didn't see that huge raise in numbers, and not much change in K/D.
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Your logic is flawed.
First, it's not about aircraft theoretical performance (which is more than mere pure numbers, handling is very important too), but the impact of a plane on gameplay. Spit XiV has none. Why perking a planes that isn't only rarely used, but doesn't win it's fights more than the "average" plane.
Second have the other perked "top tier" planes such a high k/d when compared to the Spit 14. And newbies can't fly the 14 because of ot perk status, and the number clearly prove that they are not trying. It's undoubtable that much more newbies fly the unperked spit XVI, the La-7, the N1k, yet the k/d's are almost the same...
Flawed logic? It can't be any simpler.
Impact on gameplay? I'm not talking about one dweeb rides impact on gameplay. I'm talking about the Mk.XIV & XVI performance. They are two of the very best rides in the game performance wise plus they have handling to boot. My other point was that luckily they attract mostly newbies and those that like easy mode, of course not the Mk.XIV it died off when HT in it's wisdom :rolleyes: introduced the Mk.XVI perk free. Like the Mk.VIII has killed of the Mk.IX.
Same deal for the other top tier rides you mentioned, though those two take a tiny bit more skill to do well in. Basically point being that Spitfires other then for a couple of perk rides are the easiest modes in the game for getting kills in.
Hence I was originally laughing at the comments that the dweebfire isn't all that dweeby because of what ever reason they can come up with. Usually it's "Because I always fly against the horde" :lol
Eagl, obviously I was referring to it's max ability with WEP being near 5,000fpm. Not without, which is still closer to 4,000fpm then 3,500fpm but what's a couple hundred feet when you have hispanos.
18-23k Does anyone actually care about performance levels at this alt? If you can find something worthy to shoot at 20k+ have fun.
<S>...-Gixer
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18-23k Does anyone actually care about performance levels at this alt? If you can find something worthy to shoot at 20k+ have fun.
<S>...-Gixer
Ohh you mean where the XIV just starts getting into it's element? :rolleyes:
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Love the way dweebfire sticks still find something to complain about with (other then for a couple other perk rides) easily the two best planes in the game Mk.XIV & MkXVI.
<S>...-Gixer
People forget about the Spitfire Mk IX as well, it's a beast above 20k and shines the higher it goes.
ack-ack
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Flawed logic? It can't be any simpler.
Impact on gameplay? I'm not talking about one dweeb rides impact on gameplay. I'm talking about the Mk.XIV & XVI performance. They are two of the very best rides in the game performance wise plus they have handling to boot. My other point was that luckily they attract mostly newbies and those that like easy mode, of course not the Mk.XIV it died off when HT in it's wisdom :rolleyes: introduced the Mk.XVI perk free. Like the Mk.VIII has killed of the Mk.IX.
There are many things you have wrong here.
1) The handling on the Spitfire MK XIV is not at all benign. That you think it is just makes it clear you have never flown one, and given your derogatory attitude towards it you probably have a superiority complex justifying yourself.
2) How can you claim that it attracts newbies when it is hardly used at all?
3) The Mk XIV never died off because it never had significant usage. It started off dead. The introduction of the Mk XVI had no effect on the usage of the Mk XIV. Well, perhaps a few more sorties by the Mk XIV from people confused by the similar Roman numerals of the Mk XIV and Mk XVI.
4) The Mk VIII didn't kill off the Mk IX, the Mk XVI killed off the Mk IX with a very little help from the Mk VIII.
Same deal for the other top tier rides you mentioned, though those two take a tiny bit more skill to do well in. Basically point being that Spitfires other then for a couple of perk rides are the easiest modes in the game for getting kills in.
There you go again, proving you know nothing of the Mk XIV's handling. I won't argue your point about the Mk VIII and Mk XVI.
Hence I was originally laughing at the comments that the dweebfire isn't all that dweeby because of what ever reason they can come up with. Usually it's "Because I always fly against the horde" :lol
And there your superiority complex rears its head again.
18-23k Does anyone actually care about performance levels at this alt? If you can find something worthy to shoot at 20k+ have fun.
And the performance of the Mk XIV above 23,000ft is the only possible reason to perk it, but there aren't any fights up there for it. So why perk it for nonexistent fights?
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And Gixer, the best piston fighter in the game is the F4U-4. The Spitfire Mk XIV isn't even in consideration.
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Superiority Complex? :lol
Sorry I ignored all your points after that.
<S>...-Gixer
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Superiority Complex? :lol
Sorry I ignored all your points after that.
<S>...-Gixer
Then you're an idiot. You think being smarmy and calling people who like Spitfires "Spitdweebs" and making blatantly false statements that don't even bear up under the most cursory scrutiny makes for such a strong argument that you can't even bother to read a counter argument just because somebody pointed out your superiority complex?
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And Gixer, the best piston fighter in the game is the F4U-4. The Spitfire Mk XIV isn't even in consideration.
Based on whitepaper statistics, the only thing the F4U-4 really does that much better than the Spitfire Mk. XIV is low speed, low alt turning with full flaps.
The XIV easily turns better up high, and it can "float". It's got a better guns package. It climbs better. It accelerates faster. It turns better sans flaps.
The F4U-4 turns better with full flaps (as I said before). It has better zoom characteristics. It's a bit faster at certain altitudes. It has more ammunition. It also has greater range.
Every fight I've been in against an F4U-4 in my Spitfire Mk. XIV, DA or otherwise, has been very evenly-matched in terms of aircraft ability. The F4U-4 Corsair easily chews up just about every aircraft in the planeset in a 1-on-1 with a pilot of equal skill, but the Spitfire Mk. XIV is a match for it. Just not down on the deck. But I think the perk price is easily justified, all things considered, just as the Corsair's perk price is justified.
It's not good to go by usage statistics to determine how good an aircraft is... The Spitfire Mk. XIV isn't a dog just because it has a very close kill-to-death ration. People just experiment with it because the perk price is rather cheap, and they usually don't seem to know how to use it properly (again, I almost always encounter XIVs near the ground --- this shouldn't be the case, but it is).
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Then you're an idiot.
Ok I'm out, not interested in throwing direct insults just over spitfires and perk rides. cya.
<S>...-Gixer
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Based on whitepaper statistics, the only thing the F4U-4 really does that much better than the Spitfire Mk. XIV is low speed, low alt turning with full flaps.
The XIV easily turns better up high, and it can "float". It's got a better guns package. It climbs better. It accelerates faster. It turns better sans flaps.
The F4U-4 turns better with full flaps (as I said before). It has better zoom characteristics. It's a bit faster at certain altitudes. It has more ammunition. It also has greater range.
Every fight I've been in against an F4U-4 in my Spitfire Mk. XIV, DA or otherwise, has been very evenly-matched in terms of aircraft ability. The F4U-4 Corsair easily chews up just about every aircraft in the planeset in a 1-on-1 with a pilot of equal skill, but the Spitfire Mk. XIV is a match for it. Just not down on the deck. But I think the perk price is easily justified, all things considered, just as the Corsair's perk price is justified.
It's not good to go by usage statistics to determine how good an aircraft is... The Spitfire Mk. XIV isn't a dog just because it has a very close kill-to-death ration. People just experiment with it because the perk price is rather cheap, and they usually don't seem to know how to use it properly (again, I almost always encounter XIVs near the ground --- this shouldn't be the case, but it is).
I disagree in several respects. I find the Spit XIV's torque issues reduce its agility at all altitudes. I have fought duels against the Spit XIV at 30k with the F4U-4, and it can consistently defeat the Spitfire. Why? Because flap deployment is based upon IAS, not true air speed. Thus, the F4U-4 can deploy two to three notches of flaps at relatively high true air speeds. 400 mph TAS translates into 244 mph IAS at 30k. Therefore, the F4U-4 can deploy flaps at up to 410 mph TAS. Moreover, the Spit can't get slow enough to use its flaps and not fall out of the sky with the slightest g loading. The F4U-4 wins the turning contest hands down at 30k. Acceleration at 27k is a wash, virtually dead even. At 25k, the Spit has a very slight, insignificant edge. While the Spit XIV does climb (steady state) a bit faster at 25k, it's only a 300 fpm advantage. Zoom climb is what counts in a dogfight, and the F4U-4 zooms better at any altitude. Another factor mentioned is torque. Maneuvering at 30k exacerbates the torque issue for the Spitfire. In comparison, the F4U-4 is docile.
Given equal pilots, the F4U-4 will usually beat the Spit XIV at the Spit's best altitude. You might not know that the F4U-4 is 9 mph faster at the Spit's best altitude (453 mph vs 444 mph).
I like the Spitfire Mk. XIV. However, the F4U-4 will beat it where it was designed to perform best. That's one reason why I consider the F4U-4 to be without peer.
My regards,
Widewing
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I disagree in several respects. I find the Spit XIV's torque issues reduce its agility at all altitudes. I have fought duels against the Spit XIV at 30k with the F4U-4, and it can consistently defeat the Spitfire. Why? Because flap deployment is based upon IAS, not true air speed. Thus, the F4U-4 can deploy two to three notches of flaps at relatively high true air speeds. 400 mph TAS translates into 244 mph IAS at 30k. Therefore, the F4U-4 can deploy flaps at up to 410 mph TAS. Moreover, the Spit can't get slow enough to use its flaps and not fall out of the sky with the slightest g loading. The F4U-4 wins the turning contest hands down at 30k. Acceleration at 27k is a wash, virtually dead even. At 25k, the Spit has a very slight, insignificant edge. While the Spit XIV does climb (steady state) a bit faster at 25k, it's only a 300 fpm advantage. Zoom climb is what counts in a dogfight, and the F4U-4 zooms better at any altitude. Another factor mentioned is torque. Maneuvering at 30k exacerbates the torque issue for the Spitfire. In comparison, the F4U-4 is docile.
Given equal pilots, the F4U-4 will usually beat the Spit XIV at the Spit's best altitude. You might not know that the F4U-4 is 9 mph faster at the Spit's best altitude (453 mph vs 444 mph).
I like the Spitfire Mk. XIV. However, the F4U-4 will beat it where it was designed to perform best. That's one reason why I consider the F4U-4 to be without peer.
My regards,
Widewing
Well, that does make sense. Though the Spitfire XIV, in my opinion, still warrants a perk price due to its performance, even though it's not quite up there with the F4U-4. Even then, its perk price is almost 40 points lower, so it really shouldn't be a big issue.
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First off, comparing the Spi14 to the P38J isn't terribly accurate. For the most part, only vets fly the P38J as the noobs and ground pounders take the L as it can carry more ord and it is a later version in the series.
I think they should drop the perk value on the Spit14 to about the C-hogs, but they need to perk the spit16 as well. I'm convinced the Spit16 has taken the place of the La7 as the most over used aircraft in AH, and the Spit16 is by far a much better ride.
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First off, comparing the Spi14 to the P38J isn't terribly accurate. For the most part, only vets fly the P38J as the noobs and ground pounders take the L as it can carry more ord and it is a later version in the series.
I think they should drop the perk value on the Spit14 to about the C-hogs, but they need to perk the spit16 as well. I'm convinced the Spit16 has taken the place of the La7 as the most over used aircraft in AH, and the Spit16 is by far a much better ride.
I agree with this.
And I knew I remembered you from somewhere, ass. :P
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Ok I'm out, not interested in throwing direct insults just over spitfires and perk rides. cya.
<S>...-Gixer
Yup you prefer to indirectly insult. Way to go. :aok
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SpitXIV should get the larger drop tank that was available to spits to help make it more perk worthy in comparison to the 16. I love the spitXIV and Ill fly it perked or not.
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Ohh you mean where the XIV just starts getting into it's element? :rolleyes:
Bronk... Have you ever fought against the Rooks? Hard deck on Rook hops is 20K! ;)
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Yup you prefer to indirectly insult. Way to go. :aok
How true. :aok
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The stats really just mean that many people who fly it don't actually know how to use it properly. When you use it the way it's supposed to be used, it's an outright monster, and the perk price is more than reasonable. It's got speed. It's got ridiculous acceleration and climb rate. It turns well. Its aileron performance is excellent. Its guns package is fantastic. It also has decent range, to boot.
It's not meant for low-altitude drudge fights at stall speeds, which is where I almost always encounter them. It's an E fighter through and through, quite evenly matched with the F4U-4 Corsair. And let us not forget that aside from turn rate at low altitude, the XIV outclasses the XVI in every respect (guns package is the same, of course).
That's bang on. Spit XIV is a monster in the right hands. The K4 is the only thing that will compete with it, but at altitude the Spit will eat the K4.
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Keep in mind, the perk system is not about performance, it is to prevent one plane unbalancing the arena.
And the statistics w/respect to the Spit14 are clear: nobody flies it.
A few years back the 262 was free for a few nights. That was unblancing..
All arguments that start with "In the right hands" simply do not take the net effect of the Spitfire XIV in the MA into account: it has none.
Unperk it.
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That's bang on. Spit XIV is a monster in the right hands. The K4 is the only thing that will compete with it, but at altitude the Spit will eat the K4.
what?? :rofl
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Keep in mind, the perk system is not about performance, it is to prevent one plane unbalancing the arena.
And the statistics w/respect to the Spit14 are clear: nobody flies it.
A few years back the 262 was free for a few nights. That was unblancing..
All arguments that start with "In the right hands" simply do not take the net effect of the Spitfire XIV in the MA into account: it has none.
Unperk it.
Watch it, Krusty might see this :noid
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The funny thing is you could un-perk the 14 and it still wouldnt get that much use.
The Spit-16 is the uber-fighter in the game.
spixteens are far from it.
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I find the SpitXIV to my overall favorite fighter plane. It has great high performance, a climb rate at 30K that is better than the f4u-4--granted fuel range is pitiful. It is fast enough to keep in the fight vs LAs, p51s, and 190s, while able to turn well enough versus all others planes to get a break and enough accelleration to make some distance. The Spit XIV is good at TnB and BnZ IMO, not dominate, but able. I think in the right hands, the SpitXIV can be a terror. I have much to learn still about dogfighting and ACMs, but as I make my way. I think the the Spit XIV will be a plane that I'll always enjoy flying even if I dont get into a scrape.
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Odd that you should put it that way AAolds. The Spitfire Mk XIV is about the only plane in AH I actively dislike "just flying" as it feels like I am fighting it the whole time. Combat in it is pretty fun though as it is challenging to get the potential out of it.
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I agree the plane can be squirrely at low speed, especially at landing. Once up high over 15K, at cruising speed it is a dream, very responsive. I found it to be rather capable in low alt turn fights. Just dont contnue to keep turning, at some point break get some distance and use that speed and climb rate.
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all spits should b perked.. there dweeb planes, same as la las, and hurricanes
-BigBOBCH
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all spits should b perked.. there dweeb planes, same as la las, and hurricanes
-BigBOBCH
Most idiotic post ever
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or one at 20k for that matter.
nah you forget rooks are at 35k
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I have to agree (reluctantly <S>) with Lusche... down low they perform like a spit IX. Above 15K the XIV is in its element. If only I wouldn't get so greedy when I'm in one and get down in the dirt! :lol
I have to disagree with your evaluation between the 14 and the 9 at low altitudes. The 9 is far superior in stability at stall speeds and does not have the tendancy to snap stall when flying on the edge like the 14 does. I agree though that the 14 is suited for high altitude fighting which is currently uncommon in the MA's making it difficult to fly the plane in it's element.
<S>
Spazz
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all spits should b perked.. there dweeb planes, same as la las, and hurricanes
-BigBOBCH
I can see no logic to your lumping all those planes together. They are very different in their attributes.
Some would say perk the Spit8/Spit16 for instance. The arguement here would be that they are good turners, and because of their E-retention/E building ability, they can also be difficult/nigh impossible for planes that can't turn with them to apply E-fighting techniques against if the Spit has an kind of decent pilot at the stick. However, others would say since there top speed is somewhat low, most any LW plane that can't turn can with a Spixteen can engage and disengage at will. And the 9 and 5, while good turners, don't have the amazing thrust-to-weight ratios of the 8/16. And the Hurri, while it is probably the second best fighter in turn radius, is among the worst in top speed, acceleration, and climb. The only thing that makes a Hurri a really difficult fight is the 4x20mms and the ability to haul-the-stick-and-HO...and if you are flying ANYTHING else, you don't have to stick around and put up with that if you don't want to.