Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Seagoon on June 26, 2008, 03:43:06 PM
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Hi All,
This has probably been brought up a thousand times already, and for that I apologize, but the Wirblewind and the Ostwind shouldn't have the same ENY value.
It is much more difficult to destroy aircraft with an Ostwind, and while strafing Osties left you with a good chance of taking out the turret and surviving, Wirbles are simply murderous in competent hands.
Also, reducing the ENY on the Ostie would encourage their use (more perkies per kill) - at present they have virtually disappeared from the game.
- SEAGOON
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attack the wirbles in pairs or work on dropping bombs from 1.5 out.
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I have gone back to using the Ostwind more. I believe it stands a better chance of knocking down a heavier aircraft like an A-20 or B-25H at a range long enough to do you some good, and it has a longer range period. Can POTENTIALLY down an enemy a/c at 3K, as compared to the WWs max of 1.7K. Really, if you are trying to strafe a flak of any kind, this is a pretty dumb thing to do, you SHOULD be going down unless the flakker isn't looking or is having a bad aim day. Bombs are made for flaks.
True enough, there aren't enough people driving Ostis. I'm very glad to have a flakk that someone who doesn't use flaks constantly can shoot, and I think the danger WWs have added to flying around at tree-top level trying to strafe ground objects (Whether planes on the runway or GVs) is a 100% good thing. But I would like to see a few more Ostis, since WWs and Ostis are stronger in concert. So my plan would be to raise the ENY value of the Osti, maybe up to around 35-40. That would allow some GV point-racking for those who wanted to drive it. I would not like to see any situation where players might be ENYed out of a WW, or see it perked.
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attack the wirbles in pairs or work on dropping bombs from 1.5 out.
Huh? Why? It's the person in it, not the WW itself. Roll an La7, climb to 5k, dive anywhere from 10' O to 2 O' high and a one-two second burst eliminates a turret on both GV models in question. No bombs needed. Climb back to 5k, pick another, rinse repeat. I had Lazer in tears of laughter doing this. Landed 9 of em.
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I would not like to see any situation where players might be ENYed out of a WW
I would.
Simply because of its devastating effectiveness as a hording tool in town attacks. Not a lowering to a value like 5 or so, but I think 15 should be ok, compared to the Ostwind's 25.
That would result an a incentive to use Osties (more perks) and still guarrantee WW availability in most defensive situations, yet preventing literally dozends of WW's flooding towns of enemies that are already massively outnumbered.
Perking the WW however is not necessary.
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I would.
Simply because of its devastating effectiveness as a hording tool in town attacks. Not a lowering to a value like 5 or so, but I think 15 should be ok, compared to the Ostwind's 25.
That would result an a incentive to use Osties (more perks) and still guarrantee WW availability in most defensive situations, yet preventing literally dozends of WW's flooding towns of enemies that are already massively outnumbered.
Perking the WW however is not necessary.
Agree with you emphatically Lusche.
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Huh? Why? It's the person in it, not the WW itself. Roll an La7, climb to 5k, dive anywhere from 10' O to 2 O' high and a one-two second burst eliminates a turret on both GV models in question. No bombs needed. Climb back to 5k, pick another, rinse repeat. I had Lazer in tears of laughter doing this. Landed 9 of em.
Huh? just advise for someone thats having a tough time killing them. nothing hard to understand, at least thats what i thought.
Why? like he said it's murderous in good hands. if you really don't want to get shot down thats just two ideas since you don't know who's in it.
I have no problem with them, disabled 5 in one run with a -4 Hog with just the 50's.
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Huh? Why? It's the person in it, not the WW itself. Roll an La7, climb to 5k, dive anywhere from 10' O to 2 O' high and a one-two second burst eliminates a turret on both GV models in question. No bombs needed. Climb back to 5k, pick another, rinse repeat. I had Lazer in tears of laughter doing this. Landed 9 of em.
One of my favorite victims is the lone wolf pilot that thinks they have the best way to strafe down a Wirbel all figured out. The 9 WW must of had some seriously bad SA. I take just as many Rook and Bish airplanes from the positions and angles you are describing as any other. Teamwork or a tank is the only way to reliably take out a Wirbel. One says "look at me", the other says "say hello to my little friend". I do concede to a lowered ENY, but the actual I will leave up to the Hitech folks. I do not think it should be lowered to stop hordes of town killers, instead it should be lowered because it is simply a more efficient airplane killer.
-Wirbel/Ostie God
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One of my favorite victims is the lone wolf pilot that thinks they have the best way to strafe down a Wirbel all figured out. The 9 WW must of had some seriously bad SA. I take just as many Rook and Bish airplanes from the positions and angles you are describing as any other. Teamwork or a tank is the only way to reliably take out a Wirbel. One says "look at me", the other says "say hello to my little friend". I do concede to a lowered ENY, but the actual I will leave up to the Hitech folks. I do not think it should be lowered to stop hordes of town killers, instead it should be lowered because it is simply a more efficient airplane killer.
-Wirbel/Ostie God
No. What you don't realize is this, I'm no "two weeker in a Flak". You're wrong on "what it takes", but you're entitled to think so. Bad SA? Nope, just pick the right angle.
But what do I know right? :rofl
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The Ostwind's ENY rating is really a contrivance. When the ENY thingy was implimented it was really low (I believe 8 or 10). But, that made it virtually impossible for a country being penalized to effectively defend against vulchers, so it was raised to its current level after a week or two. This was before field ack, manned and un-manned, was increased. So, the fact that the Whirblewind and the Ostwind are the same really has nothing to do with their relative effectiveness vs. aircraft. They are both artificially high to ensure viable field defense.
I do agree that the Whirble is much easier to use. In my opinion ground based 37mm is one of the hardest things to master aiming with. But, having an AA vehicle that is "democratic" is good for the game, anything that allows your average player to push vulchers off fields makes overall gameplay better.
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Lusche:
If HTC gave us oodles of fixed, quad 20mm manned guns at air bases with the same durability as the WW/Osti, you COULD perk the WW for all I care.
Or you could make buildings much more durable against anything other than a bomb or a tank's main gun. Making the flyboys have to actually lug some ord to drop a town would make things more interesting and fun IMHO. Might make heavy bomber formations more important, with the attendant need for escort and interceptor flying.
I would.
Simply because of its devastating effectiveness as a hording tool in town attacks. Not a lowering to a value like 5 or so, but I think 15 should be ok, compared to the Ostwind's 25.
That would result an a incentive to use Osties (more perks) and still guarrantee WW availability in most defensive situations, yet preventing literally dozends of WW's flooding towns of enemies that are already massively outnumbered.
Perking the WW however is not necessary.
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Personally, I'm not arguing that the Wirbie needs to be perked, or that we need to anything to its ENY. I'm just pointing out what we all appear to agree on, that the Wirbie is clearly much more lethal in the MA and that the Ostie has fallen into virtual disuse.
In light of that, lowering the ENY on the Ostie just makes sense. Personally, I wouldn't care if the ENY # was 5 or 10 points higher. It just shouldn't be the same as the Wirbie. At present, there is almost no reason to choose an Ostie anymore.
- SEAGOON
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Personally, I'm not arguing that the Wirbie needs to be perked, or that we need to anything to its ENY. I'm just pointing out what we all appear to agree on, that the Wirbie is clearly much more lethal in the MA and that the Ostie has fallen into virtual disuse.
In light of that, lowering the ENY on the Ostie just makes sense. Personally, I wouldn't care if the ENY # was 5 or 10 points higher. It just shouldn't be the same as the Wirbie. At present, there is almost no reason to choose an Ostie anymore.
- SEAGOON
I don't entirely disagree with you on the ENY issue, but...
The use or disuse of one of the two AA vehicles we have is unimportant and is not a good, logical, argument.
The P40E guarantees that the P40B sees almost no use. Unlike say, the P51D vrs the P51B, no one gets ENYed out of the P40E. And a difference in ENY for the Osti/Wirble still wouldn't do much either, since most of the time people would still be able to up whatever AA vehicle they want.
Perhaps Zazen or the Ltars could give a class on field-gunning. People still find themselvs HAVING to use field guns time to time, and if they had the skills in the FG, they might then be inclined to transfer themselves those skills to the Ostwind. I still believe that with skilled drivers, a mix of WWs and Ostwinds are more deadly to all possible airthreats than WWS alone.
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Perhaps Zazen or the Ltars could give a class on field-gunning. People still find themselvs HAVING to use field guns time to time, and if they had the skills in the FG, they might then be inclined to transfer themselves those skills to the Ostwind. I still believe that with skilled drivers, a mix of WWs and Ostwinds are more deadly to all possible airthreats than WWS alone.
There's absolutely no difference between a FG and an Ostwind as far as aiming goes. The only difference is FG's have a slower rate of fire and the Ostwind 'shakes' a bit when you're firing making it a bit nauseating after awhile. The Ostwind is better than a FG in terms of lethality because there's less chance of a target threading the needle between your rounds even if your lead is perfect..
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Huh? Why? It's the person in it, not the WW itself. Roll an La7, climb to 5k, dive anywhere from 10' O to 2 O' high and a one-two second burst eliminates a turret on both GV models in question. No bombs needed. Climb back to 5k, pick another, rinse repeat. I had Lazer in tears of laughter doing this. Landed 9 of em.
Pretty cheap kills doing that.
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attack the wirbles in pairs or work on dropping bombs from 1.5 out.
What he said ^^^.
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Pretty cheap kills doing that.
Please explain. I often DO NOT have a "second plane around me". It is far from easy, but I can usually manage to turret a few. "Cheap"? That is upping a P40 or P39, working the fringe of a furball (afraid to go in) and landing 5 kills. Or landing 70 Sherman/Tiger victories while spawncamping.
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There's absolutely no difference between a FG and an Ostwind as far as aiming goes. The only difference is FG's have a slower rate of fire and the Ostwind 'shakes' a bit when you're firing making it a bit nauseating after awhile. The Ostwind is better than a FG in terms of lethality because there's less chance of a target threading the needle between your rounds even if your lead is perfect..
? Are you sure the Ostie doesn't have a lot more dispersion than the field guns?
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? Are you sure the Ostie doesn't have a lot more dispersion than the field guns?
It does, just try shooting a gv with them at 1K+. A manned ack will hit the exact same spot every time, the ostwind will miss from time to time.
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I don't see how that extra dispersion's helpful.
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I don't see how that extra dispersion's helpful.
I second that, I'm able to get hits on 3.0K bombers in manned acks on a regular basis, If I get one with a ostwind thats pure luck, thx to dispersion.
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Please explain. I often DO NOT have a "second plane around me". It is far from easy, but I can usually manage to turret a few. "Cheap"? That is upping a P40 or P39, working the fringe of a furball (afraid to go in) and landing 5 kills. Or landing 70 Sherman/Tiger victories while spawncamping.
All you're doing is wasting a few rounds of ammo, while someone else comes in with a bomb or is in a GV who actually works for the kill, and gets an assist.
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Pretty cheap kills doing that.
Hello Spike,
There is no such thing as a cheap kill. It's really a matter of how much you want to pay to get that kill. He is obviously looking to pay as little as possible. I understand what you are saying, but then I am not to interested in the scoring aspect of this game. Regardless of how much you pay for any kill, it still will only net you a single soul. I welcome any and all airplanes to come get their inexpensive kill on my Ostie or Wirbel (A-20's and IL-2's need not apply). :devil
<Salute>
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An adjustment to the ENY is all that is needed. THe Ost needs a boost, and the WW needs to be lessened. It is more difficult to take down a plane with an Ost due to the much slower rate of fire. Yeah, one hit and the plane is apt to go down, but getting that his is very difficult comapred to the WW.
I would only hope HTC is on top of those things... maybe not. They still havent corrected the Mossi FB Mk6. ;)
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It does, just try shooting a gv with them at 1K+. A manned ack will hit the exact same spot every time, the ostwind will miss from time to time.
Yup, that's the 'shaking' effect I referred to that they added presumably to simulate the fact that it is firing from a mobile chassis. But, the maximum dispersion is less than the diameter of a fighter at 2k in full profile aspect so really doesn't have any net detrimental effect on aiming. If you're shooting at a fighter beyond 2k you're hoping and praying anyway so the dispersion is just as likely to randomly help you to hit as miss.
The only time it really makes a difference is if you're shooting at bombers beyond 3k where the extrapolation of the dispersion at that distance can cause you to miss occasionally. But, when your lobbing rounds up at overflying bombers you have time, on an average pass, to put up 20-30 rounds, so again it's all going to average out. The higher rate of fire more than makes up for the almost negligible dispersion with the notable exception of shooting at other ground vehicles where pinpoint accuracy is required to hit a stationary target in specific areas..But, that's not really what the Ostwind is for...;)
The 'shaking' effect was much, much worse when originally implemented. The dispersion was greater than the diameter of a fighter at 1k which made the Ostwind almost useless. Thankfully, HTC realized their error and quickly reduced the shaking effect to what we have now. It is mildly nauseating but has no real effect on the Ostwind's effectiveness vs. aircraft..It is entirely possible the 'shaking' effect was added specifically to hinder it's usefullness against GV's, it was somewhat unbalancing without it. An Ostwind could disable a panzer more quickly and efficiently than another panzer could even at relatively long distance.
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i dont like the ostie too much cause of that big piece of sheetmetal used for a bullet shield. its hard to view targets without pressing a button to look over it.
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Valdals, read my Ostwind guide in the help section on this website. I detail how to eliminate that visual obstruction.
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i dont like the ostie too much cause of that big piece of sheetmetal used for a bullet shield. its hard to view targets without pressing a button to look over it.
Hello Valdals,
I highly recommend following Zazen's advice. Although I have never actually spoken to the man, I still consider him my Yoda when it comes to the Ostwind, Field guns, and the Wirbelwind. His write-up helped me become the AA gunnery terror that I am today.
<Salute> Zazen :salute
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i dont like the ostie too much cause of that big piece of sheetmetal used for a bullet shield. its hard to view targets without pressing a button to look over it.
gunsight is almost useless in a ostwind, your default view should be at maximum height. I'm stuck to the ostwind, as my framerate drops to under 10 when I'm firing guns in a whirle for an unknown reason. Anyway the 37mm is fine to me, I've been using it for years, would be a shame to throw away all that practice )
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gunsight is almost useless in a ostwind, your default view should be at maximum height. I'm stuck to the ostwind, as my framerate drops to under 10 when I'm firing guns in a whirle for an unknown reason. Anyway the 37mm is fine to me, I've been using it for years, would be a shame to throw away all that practice )
mine drops also in the Wrillybird, some days more than others. wondered if i turn my tracers off would it help.
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Hello Spike,
There is no such thing as a cheap kill. It's really a matter of how much you want to pay to get that kill. He is obviously looking to pay as little as possible. I understand what you are saying, but then I am not to interested in the scoring aspect of this game. Regardless of how much you pay for any kill, it still will only net you a single soul. I welcome any and all airplanes to come get their inexpensive kill on my Ostie or Wirbel (A-20's and IL-2's need not apply). :devil
<Salute>
Quit your crying and suck it up. I'm not interested in the SCORING either, funny how you mentioned it though.
Not my fault, I can roll an La7 and pull the trigger for a second and neuter a flak. You welcome nothing. Ask LoedeCH or GooseCH sometime. They'll "clue you in".
I've lost count of the times the Zazen and I have cleared a vulched field. But I'm sorry, you're obviously the best in the Ostie, wait, I meant full of yourself.
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Hello Mash,
Obviously said something to tweak your nose, if so it was not my intention. If you don't mind me asking just what exactly am I to suck up? There was no whine given, so I am not sure where your animosity comes from. Are you ill? Someone wee in your cornflakes? Did your dog die? Did you buy a losing scratch ticket? Forget to take your meds? Break a nail? As I said before Sir, Zazen has my respect. Goose and Loede I know in passing. You sir I don't know, and at this point would not care to. Full of myself? No, I would say confident in my knowledge and experience on this subject. For a blow hard that I don't know and who does not know me, you are certainly spending a lot of time trying to flame an intelligent conversation with one of the nicest folks in the Aces High community.
<Salute> :salute
Ostie/Wirbel God
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Hi All,
This has probably been brought up a thousand times already, and for that I apologize, but the Wirblewind and the Ostwind shouldn't have the same ENY value.
It is much more difficult to destroy aircraft with an Ostwind, and while strafing Osties left you with a good chance of taking out the turret and surviving, Wirbles are simply murderous in competent hands.
Also, reducing the ENY on the Ostie would encourage their use (more perkies per kill) - at present they have virtually disappeared from the game.
- SEAGOON
you have never met an LTAR in an ostie obviously :lol
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Hello Mash,
Obviously said something to tweak your nose, if so it was not my intention. If you don't mind me asking just what exactly am I to suck up? There was no whine given, so I am not sure where your animosity comes from. Are you ill? Someone wee in your cornflakes? Did your dog die? Did you buy a losing scratch ticket? Forget to take your meds? Break a nail? As I said before Sir, Zazen has my respect. Goose and Loede I know in passing. You sir I don't know, and at this point would not care to. Full of myself? No, I would say confident in my knowledge and experience on this subject. For a blow hard that I don't know and who does not know me, you are certainly spending a lot of time trying to flame an intelligent conversation with one of the nicest folks in the Aces High community.
<Salute> :salute
Ostie/Wirbel God
Sorry, I'm not mad at all. You brought a lack of intelligence to this conversation. All I pointed out to some is that you DO NOT need a wingman OR ord to take a flak down.
Sorry if you're incapable of understanding or DEALING with this fact.
Go and attempt to pee in someone else's cornflakes because you missed my bowl by a mile.
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Sorry, I'm not mad at all. You brought a lack of intelligence to this conversation. All I pointed out to some is that you DO NOT need a wingman OR ord to take a flak down.
Sorry if you're incapable of understanding or DEALING with this fact.
Go and attempt to pee in someone else's cornflakes because you missed my bowl by a mile.
Mash ... I think the guy you were really after was SpikesX ... not waystin2. I believe that waystin2 was actually agreeing with you.
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All you're doing is wasting a few rounds of ammo, while someone else comes in with a bomb or is in a GV who actually works for the kill, and gets an assist.
Well, I smoked 4 WW turrets the other day, after hangers were down, while waiting for others to come that had ord. I had already dumped my ord taking a VH down.
So ... while flying CAP, and not wanting to tempt fate to the WWs while waiting for others to arrive ... I smoked their turrets ... nothing cheap about that.
Dive at an 80-90 degree angle and throw some .50 cals down the top and they are "smoked" ... very easy.
If I ended up with the kill(s) ... so what ... if I didn't ... so what again. It never is about "score" for me ... it's about getting the job done at the time.
SCORE MEANS NOTHING !!!
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Pretty cheap kills doing that.
Are you serious or trying to troll? I hope it's just an attempt at a troll because I really can't believe you would actually believe crap like that. Don't let the tools in this game convince you of such nonsense because that's all it is.
ack-ack
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Mash ... I think the guy you were really after was SpikesX ... not waystin2. I believe that waystin2 was actually agreeing with you.
No, waystin2 was pretty much supporting the 'cheap' kill argument by challenging Karaya to attempt to get an 'inexpensive' kill against him in a flak panzie or weeblewobble.
ack-ack
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Dive at an 80-90 degree angle and throw some .50 cals down the top and they are "smoked" ... very easy.
When I try that, the flak always seems to nail me before I nail it. Might be my poor aim or their good aim. Still, at what range do you guys open up? Seems like a flak would have longer range than the guns on an aircraft.
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When I try that, the flak always seems to nail me before I nail it. Might be my poor aim or their good aim. Still, at what range do you guys open up? Seems like a flak would have longer range than the guns on an aircraft.
I start shooting at about 800k ... with .50 cals.
It's not impossible, but it is very hard for a WW or Ostwind to track planes coming in at that angle ... and most aren't looking straight up, so they don't see ya coming. It really works well when they are occupied by someone else.
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Wirblewind should be perked in my opinion, but thats just me.
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Wirblewind should be perked in my opinion, but thats just me.
Why? 75% of the folks in em just listen to the WWII version of a Modern MK-15 Phalanx (CIWS). 25% of the folks in them, know when to fire (not at 3k) and what to look for. Being "setup" as the illustrious waystin2 said is the EASIEST way to get kills.
The Field Gun is more accurate, more deadly in the hands of someone competent, at a greater distance. Perking the Weeblewobble is pointless at best. AH2 flourished before it came into fruition here.
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Being "setup" as the illustrious waystin2 said is the EASIEST way to get kills.
Cool, I'm illustrious! :aok
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AH2 flourished before it came into fruition here.
You're arguing against your own point there.
Wirblewinds are way to effective in my opinion. Anything with 4 x20mm with 4000 rounds is clearly perkable. And it doesn't help the range of the fire is absolutely unreal.
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The range isn't exactly unreal. It's much less than the Ostwind's. You can't register hits past ~1700 yards
The thing that actually is unreal are the rate of fire (continous firing required shooting with 2 barrels only) and turret rotation speed (our WW rotates almost twice as fast as the real one)
Still no perk status required, even though that ********** ended my Hurry IID career :mad:
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You can't register hits past ~1700 yards
Funny, I've been hit at well past 2.5k.
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Funny, I've been hit at well past 2.5k.
Go offline or TA and test it :)
Past ~1700 no hits are registering on .target anymore.
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Funny, I've been hit at well past 2.5k.
Film?
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Funny, I've been hit at well past 2.5k.
You have to account for rate of closure. If you're going fast enough, the WW can shoot when you're at 2.2K and you will have close to 1.5K or so by the time those bullets reach the end of their ~1.7K lifetime.
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You have to account for rate of closure. If you're going fast enough, the WW can shoot when you're at 2.2K and you will have close to 1.5K or so by the time those bullets reach the end of their ~1.7K lifetime.
That's a decent shout. I have been pinged though at 2.5k flying AWAY. Perhaps it's because I was in a bomber or something, I dunno. I just find that some things a wirble can do are just unreal.
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No, waystin2 was pretty much supporting the 'cheap' kill argument by challenging Karaya to attempt to get an 'inexpensive' kill against him in a flak panzie or weeblewobble.
ack-ack
Hello Ack-Ack,
I was challenging noone. What I was stating in plain and simple terms is this...Just about any plane in the inventory can easily turret a Wirbel/Ostie (Karaya's methodology), but it takes a bomb or a tank to destroy one. I concede that Karaya has a viable option for stopping the turret from operating, but not destroying the vehicle. As far as the cheap and inexpensive talk I will also try to put it as plainly as possible for you...There are no easy, cheap, hard, expensive kills. A kill is a kill to me. I very much subscribe to the "if it's red, then make it dead" philosophy. I do not care how it is done, just kill the enemy vehicle/plane. If it makes folks feel better about themselves, then apply labels and ratings to other pilot's kills all you want.
<Salute>
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That's a decent shout. I have been pinged though at 2.5k flying AWAY.
Again, this is not possible. I just looked up my original test results. Wirbelwind rounds exist up to 1841yds horizontal distance. They disappear magically at 1842 yds.
(And a hit at 1840 yds is more a result of luck then aim - to compensate for vertical bullet drop alone you have to aim about 180ft above your target)
I might add that what we think we saw during a battle often never happened at all. A perception issue we all fall for once in a while. When I klost my first 262 to a Wirbel I first thought too "Impossible, I was way too high!" - film proved I was wrong. And dead. ;)
Hence all that "you couldn't catch me me at 500 mph" (film shows he did only 400mph), "You accellerated while going straight up" (very popular claim about Spits), "You shot through the building" stuff we regulary see.
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That's a decent shout. I have been pinged though at 2.5k flying AWAY. Perhaps it's because I was in a bomber or something, I dunno. I just find that some things a wirble can do are just unreal.
Careful . . . if you are referring to the fact you were at 2.5K altitude, that is in feet and is only a little over d800 yards, which is well within the WW range. (Bringing this up because it is a common mistake.)
Also there is the potential for a small lag issue -- he hit you while you were in range, but due to internet lag your system didn't receive the message that you were struck until you were "out of range" on your end.
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It really works well when they are occupied by someone else.
What Slappy said here is key. It is the reason a good shot in an Ostwind will always be better than a good shot in a WW. The Ostwind can 1 shot 1 kill potentially up to 3k away. In a really nasty vulchfest you can spin the Ostwind around popping enemy rather quickly if you are a good shot. In a WW you must spend a relatively longer time tracking, waiting for the enemy to close within effective range then pumping enough round into him to bring him down. This all takes more time, which is key, the more time you take the more likely another vulcher will pop your turret while you're facing the other way. No matter how good a shot you are with the AA equipment you can only shoot at one plane at a time, that's its vulnerability. Many times after I've been dropping vulchers like flies, the word apparently gets out, and they start attacking me with 2 and 3 guys simultaneously , it's very effective.
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You're arguing against your own point there.
Wirblewinds are way to effective in my opinion. Anything with 4 x20mm with 4000 rounds is clearly perkable. And it doesn't help the range of the fire is absolutely unreal.
No I'm not. You read more into that statement then you should have.
Here. Before the WW was added, we whooped arse in the Ostie and FG. Perk it, even though the range is reduced DRASTICALLY in the WW. If you really need to VULCH FIELDS (Let's be honest here, this is the REAL PROBLEM), practice will only help you more than asking for an ok GV to be perked.
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What Slappy said here is key. It is the reason a good shot in an Ostwind will always be better than a good shot in a WW. The Ostwind can 1 shot 1 kill potentially up to 3k away. In a really nasty vulchfest you can spin the Ostwind around popping enemy rather quickly if you are a good shot. In a WW you must spend a relatively longer time tracking, waiting for the enemy to close within effective range then pumping enough round into him to bring him down. This all takes more time, which is key, the more time you take the more likely another vulcher will pop your turret while you're facing the other way. No matter how good a shot you are with the AA equipment you can only shoot at one plane at a time, that's its vulnerability. Many times after I've been dropping vulchers like flies, the word apparently gets out, and they start attacking me with 2 and 3 guys simultaneously , it's very effective.
Yep. Loede and GooseCH were circling a field while it was being vulched. I fired three times in a FG and nailed Goose's 38 from 3.5k away. Fired another 3 at 2.5k getting Loede in his Ki-84. 4XTCH turreted me and we all laughed. Especially at Goose's response on 200 after seeing I got him: "Figures". I have begun to hit a lot more, from farther out. I'm keen on leading the con. Keep in mind that I DO NOT zoom in, put the head position up or use a diff. sight. I see a plane spraying and follow their tracers and shoot where they WILL BE.
Some are good in the Ostie, not many. The Ostwind is not a GV you can just simply point and shoot. I've had 6 years of practice and still wish I was as good as Zazzy or TopHat in one. I'm just below them IMO, but I'm still learning from him and TopHat. LTAR's are good and get a lot of the press, but those two are TOPS in the Ostie, no exceptions.
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Funny, I've been hit at well past 2.5k.
Not with a WW. If so, they sprayed so much they got lucky. An Ostie or FG would be a little tougher, but more plausible.
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Still somewhat on topic...
During the last 2 months, I made the observation that the Wirbelwind in some situations even may have helped the airborne attackers. How?
The answer is greed & lazyness!
It's much simpler to get some kills vs. vulcher than it was in Ostwind, and an easy way to get lots of GV perks quickly. So everytime you hear the call "NOE ib AXX" you will see dozens of Wirbelwinds crawl out of the VH... just to stop 100ft later. I have seen many a field captured because most defenders jumped in a Wirbel, and most of that Wirbels never even tried to get to that town thats being killed quickly by 110's. Most of them do not even disperse over the airfield to effectively fend off the vulchers so that friendly fighters have a chance to take off. No, they are just sitting by the VH, hoping some enemy is dumb enough to fly into their gun's range.
5 mins later you will see the field ack popping one WW turret after another...
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Some are good in the Ostie, not many. The Ostwind is not a GV you can just simply point and shoot. I've had 6 years of practice and still wish I was as good as Zazzy or TopHat in one. I'm just below them IMO, but I'm still learning from him and TopHat. LTAR's are good and get a lot of the press, but those two are TOPS in the Ostie, no exceptions.
I've been on the receiving end of Zazen's ostie and FG WAY too many times in the past. :aok
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Funny, I've been hit at well past 2.5k.
Hmmm....I never have with a WW, 1 to 1.5K is about it. I have picked off Goons at 3K with an Ostwind whose drivers thought they were safe.
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Gentle men
Karaya you are right you can remove the main gun with a quick burst straight down into the open cockpit but you can't kill it. If the person lands on cement you don't receive the kill. I have been taken out of action many times for this one. I am glad that they changed the osti to allow the gun to go negative. I watch out of the tower and see what kinds of cons are inbound before choosing my weapon. Osti's for A20, B25 and bombers. Wirb's for fighters. The only reason for getting tagged with a round from the WW at 2.5 is lag. I have dealt with my lag issue but notice it with others. I am always amazed at people shooting a WW at a target 4K away and then hollering for supplies. :rofl The best trick in all AA is to shut of tracers.. :aok
Hardest things to watch for are planes dropping in on your head and good short range a20 or jabo bombs. :cry
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Not with a WW. If so, they sprayed so much they got lucky. An Ostie or FG would be a little tougher, but more plausible.
People here just need to sit back and go duck hunting...the stress will go away...watch for entertainment value
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/1012_1206830497_aaafrustration.zip (http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/1012_1206830497_aaafrustration.zip)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/1012_1206829675_aaafrustrationrevisedcopy.jpg)