Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Rich46yo on July 08, 2008, 02:19:47 PM
-
Criteria is, "what fighter do most people underestimate in capability when they happen across it in the MAs"?
-
C202, P-47
And the quickest way back to the tower if you make the mistake of thinking its an easy mark - the A-20 :)
-
C.202, easily.
-
FM-2
-
P-40E or B
-
A-20 by a wide margin, then the Ki-61...
-
Yak-9U, 109E, 110C
-
P-38.
-
109F4
F6F
190A5
-
Stuka
-
P-40E or B
agree
110C
agree
A-20 by a wide margin, then the Ki-61...
agree
-
I've seen some pilots do really well in the IL-2. :eek:
-
I've got to change my vote to (equally split) the Spit I, BF109E-4 and the F4F-4.
The Stuka isn't a fighter nor is the A-20 or the IL-2 even though they may be capable.
-
I've seen some pilots do really well in the IL-2. :eek:
If the IL2 had more HP and was faster it very well could be a fighter. 23mm HVAP rounds rock!
-
D3A
:noid
-
P-38.
Your joking right? I guess you never had your head handed to you by the 38 brotherhood. To me that's the plane I hate fighting against the most. Most guy's flying them know how to use them well and if they have alt on you ....well forget it unless your in one of the faster rides and can run back to momma.
A well flown FM2 can take you buy suprise. Just ask anyone who has fought Slapshot.
-
Your joking right? I guess you never had your head handed to you by the 38 brotherhood. To me that's the plane I hate fighting against the most. Most guy's flying them know how to use them well and if they have alt on you ....well forget it unless your in one of the faster rides and can run back to momma.
A well flown FM2 can take you buy suprise. Just ask anyone who has fought Slapshot.
i have killed so many p-38s, ya its a good plane in its role, but why any one would try to turn fight my hurri in a 38 is beyond me.
now im not saying you cant kill my hurri in a 38, heck ya you can if you use it right, but most don't, they think for some reason they can out turn it.
and 99% of them die.
-
p47s
fm2
yaks
c2s
-
P-38.
For someone that has probably some of the most flights and hours in the P-38 in AH, I can say it's not under-rated. It might be under appreciated, incorrectly used and flown by most but definitely not under rated.
ack-ack
-
i have killed so many p-38s, ya its a good plane in its role, but why any one would try to turn fight my hurri in a 38 is beyond me.
now im not saying you cant kill my hurri in a 38, heck ya you can if you use it right, but most don't, they think for some reason they can out turn it.
and 99% of them die.
Kinda like asking why a Hurri pilot would turn with a Zeke too isn't it?
Probably because you'd be mad if they didn't :)
4 20mms and a turner like that is tough for any other bird to hang with low and slow. I can tell ya that a certain 38G dweeb will give it a try anyway :)
-
For someone that has probably some of the most flights and hours in the P-38 in AH, I can say it's not under-rated. It might be under appreciated, incorrectly used and flown by most but definitely not under rated.
ack-ack
Agreed. Not underrated. It does take some time to learn the ropes, but if you stick with it, the 38 is a great bird.
-
Kinda like asking why a Hurri pilot would turn with a Zeke too isn't it?
Probably because you'd be mad if they didn't :)
4 20mms and a turner like that is tough for any other bird to hang with low and slow. I can tell ya that a certain 38G dweeb will give it a try anyway :)
For some reason, no matter if i know the plane im up against can outmaneuver mine, I always wind up fighting them
-
Ki61
long range, Great nose mounted cannons, good maneuverability, control in a dive, enough speed to force a fight with a little E, and most people don't know how to fight it because they don't fly it.
Magoo
-
For someone that has probably some of the most flights and hours in the P-38 in AH, I can say it's not under-rated. It might be under appreciated, incorrectly used and flown by most but definitely not under rated.
ack-ack
Perhaps thats what I meant to say.
There are alot of pilots that underestimate the 38s capabilities and often get caught out for it. Maybe that's more correct for what I was getting at.
-
I underestimate none... each plane in the right hands is killer, and you don't know that till it's up in your text buffer. The plane I hate the most is the zeke...and GRIM's hurri
-
Hey SPKmes,
Where in Auckland you from? I'm originially from out west Waitakeres.
Back to topic, everyone knows the Yak-9T is the sniper and most under-rated/under-estimated fighter. All others are just uber girly planes with little guns. :D
<S>...-Gixer
-
Hurricane Mk. I
-
Hurricane Mk. I
Against what? Ducks?
<S>...-Gixer
-
c47
-
Yak9u, thougt pple are starting to understang its totaly uber.
-
I would think it's the C.202.
(I take it light with only the heavy MG's and give the 109 and Spit drivers a nightmare :D)
-
ki-61
-
The "Wildcat" gets no respect ... and that's ok by me.
-
I think the FM2 because of its four .50 cals and lackluster speed. However, it can whip a cookie and be on your six in the blink of an eye, much like the zeke and Hurricane.
I'm trying to learn it, but with only four .50 guns, I think it is my aiming that needs the most honing. ;)
-
i have killed so many p-38s, ya its a good plane in its role, but why any one would try to turn fight my hurri in a 38 is beyond me.
now im not saying you cant kill my hurri in a 38, heck ya you can if you use it right, but most don't, they think for some reason they can out turn it.
and 99% of them die.
I will put my money on the well flown 38, all a Hurricane can do better is turn, climb rate speed aren't even close and if Schuffler, Twinboom or any of the other uber 38 pilots are looking down on your Hurri than prepare to die. All of them are master B&Zers and that all they really have to do.
-
P-38.
I would say the Spit 16! :lol
On a more serious note, I would say the LA-5.
-
I would say the Spit 16! :)
No one's started the OVER-rated fighter thread yet. ;)
-
I will put my money on the well flown 38, all a Hurricane can do better is turn, climb rate speed aren't even close and if Schuffler, Twinboom or any of the other uber 38 pilots are looking down on your Hurri than prepare to die. All of them are master B&Zers and that all they really have to do.
well put your money on the 38,chances are you would lose it!!
but like i said it can kill the hurri if used properly "the ol boring BnZ" but i have learned to avoid quite well and all it takes is a couple rounds in that flimsy tail of the 38, as they run scared by,plus if we are at the same alt, then they really are gonna eat some lead.
the hurri can do more than just turn, it can dive to over 400 MPH in control.
you bring that hurri up to 10 to 13 k, it will kill anything. IF the person who is controlling said hurri knows how to conserve his E
i have gone back and looked at my "kills of" i always have close to twice as many killz on the 38 to deaths to it, not only that but some tours i have no deaths to but yet still killed a bunch of them. it just so happens one tour i flew the hurri exclusively, and i killed 12 L's and 3 J's, with no deaths from ether.
now i certainly don't fly with the Hourde, i fly alone and i am always out numbered(although it has been awhile) so even if i did get killed by a 38, good chance i was picked off someone else's 6.
-
I think the FM2 because of its four .50 cals and lackluster speed. However, it can whip a cookie and be on your six in the blink of an eye, much like the zeke and Hurricane.
I'm trying to learn it, but with only four .50 guns, I think it is my aiming that needs the most honing. ;)
More often than not, if I allow a FM2 to get behind me with enough speed to stay behind.... game over.
The FM2 is deadly provided it comes in with a solid amount of E.
-
well put your money on the 38,chances are you would lose it!!
but like i said it can kill the hurri if used properly "the ol boring BnZ" but i have learned to avoid quite well and all it takes is a couple rounds in that flimsy tail of the 38, as they run scared by,plus if we are at the same alt, then they really are gonna eat some lead.
the hurri can do more than just turn, it can dive to over 400 MPH in control.
you bring that hurri up to 10 to 13 k, it will kill anything. IF the person who is controlling said hurri knows how to conserve his E
i have gone back and looked at my "kills of" i always have close to twice as many killz on the 38 to deaths to it, not only that but some tours i have no deaths to but yet still killed a bunch of them. it just so happens one tour i flew the hurri exclusively, and i killed 12 L's and 3 J's, with no deaths from ether.
now i certainly don't fly with the Hourde, i fly alone and i am always out numbered(although it has been awhile) so even if i did get killed by a 38, good chance i was picked off someone else's 6.
BigPlay is right, against a good P-38 stick, the Hurricane is no match. The only way the P-38 driver will lose is if he screws up. Remember, while the Hurricane might be able to reach 400mph in a dive, the P-38 can hit 450+ and still retain control. The P-38 can disengage at will and dictate the fight, something the Hurricane can't do unless it starts off with a rather generous altitude advantage.
All the P-38 has to do is keep the fight in the vertical using either BnZ or vertical turns (high yo-yo, etc) to work an angle. The only real thing a Hurricane can do is do hard break turns or hope for an over shoot for a brief snap shot. Unfortunetly for the Hurricane driver, that is exactly what the experienced P-38 driver is wishing for. If you hard break turn, all the P-38 driver needs to do is go into a High Yo-Yo and come down into your turn for the shot. If you try and go and force an overshoot, the P-38 driver just needs to extend past guns range and then pull up into the vertical and come back down and get the shot on your slow lumbering Hurricane.
It's really silly to expect a P-38 to get into a luftberry turn fight with a Hurricane and not use its strengths to counter the only strength the Hurricane has.
Face the facts, the P-38 completely outclasses the Hurricane.
ack-ack
-
BigPlay is right, against a good P-38 stick, the Hurricane is no match. The only way the P-38 driver will lose is if he screws up. Remember, while the Hurricane might be able to reach 400mph in a dive, the P-38 can hit 450+ and still retain control. The P-38 can disengage at will and dictate the fight, something the Hurricane can't do unless it starts off with a rather generous altitude advantage.
All the P-38 has to do is keep the fight in the vertical using either BnZ or vertical turns (high yo-yo, etc) to work an angle. The only real thing a Hurricane can do is do hard break turns or hope for an over shoot for a brief snap shot. Unfortunetly for the Hurricane driver, that is exactly what the experienced P-38 driver is wishing for. If you hard break turn, all the P-38 driver needs to do is go into a High Yo-Yo and come down into your turn for the shot. If you try and go and force an overshoot, the P-38 driver just needs to extend past guns range and then pull up into the vertical and come back down and get the shot on your slow lumbering Hurricane.
It's really silly to expect a P-38 to get into a luftberry turn fight with a Hurricane and not use its strengths to counter the only strength the Hurricane has.
Face the facts, the P-38 completely outclasses the Hurricane.
ack-ack
yup i think i said they can kill the hurri already but, i find 38s very easy to kill. and i do mean EASY, if i had good gunnery and wasn't such a BADSHOT i would probably never die to a 38 in a 1vs1.
-
Hey SPKmes,
Where in Auckland you from? I'm originially from out west Waitakeres.
Back to topic, everyone knows the Yak-9T is the sniper and most under-rated/under-estimated fighter. All others are just uber girly planes with little guns. :D
<S>...-Gixer
Started out in the south for the first 10 years (Weymouth, Manurewa) and been on the shore since then. Albany at present. West wiataks ....is that Piha or were you a full on westie :D.
Just to add this is another Gixer and his yak (haven't run into you lately though) And if I could get lead right it would be my ride of choice.
-
yup i think i said they can kill the hurri already but, i find 38s very easy to kill. and i do mean EASY, if i had good gunnery and wasn't such a BADSHOT i would probably never die to a 38 in a 1vs1.
With those 4 20mm's I totally agree. Hurri cannons are lethal but like AckAck explained, there's nothing a guy can do in a hurri against a well flown 38. In fact in my opinion there's not much most planes can do against a well flown 38. Their climb rate is better than most planes and better than all with the MW plane selection. Trust me when I tell you that I'm probably the most frustrated guy when it comes to the 38 brotherhood. When I do get on a 38's six the rear cross section is so small it's hard to land shots on them and even when you get an engine smoking or a fuel leak it generally means nothing. They just leave for home.
-
yup i think i said they can kill the hurri already but, i find 38s very easy to kill. and i do mean EASY, if i had good gunnery and wasn't such a BADSHOT i would probably never die to a 38 in a 1vs1.
Remember that you are talking about yourself in a Hurri IIc. Obviously it's your bird of choice and you fight with it to it's strengths. Expecting a P38 pilot who knows what he's doing to fly his 38 to the Hurri II's strengths is silly. Not too hard to figure out that a slow turn fight with a Hurri is a bad place to be in a 38. Not that I don't try in my old 38G on occasion to see how far I can push it :)
There are a lot of folks out there who fly Ls in particular to haul ord. Most of them have no idea what a 38 can do and end up dying in it because they do things like turn fight a Hurri.
-
Remember that you are talking about yourself in a Hurri IIc. Obviously it's your bird of choice and you fight with it to it's strengths. Expecting a P38 pilot who knows what he's doing to fly his 38 to the Hurri II's strengths is silly. Not too hard to figure out that a slow turn fight with a Hurri is a bad place to be in a 38. Not that I don't try in my old 38G on occasion to see how far I can push it :)
There are a lot of folks out there who fly Ls in particular to haul ord. Most of them have no idea what a 38 can do and end up dying in it because they do things like turn fight a Hurri.
i absolutely agree, the 38 doing what it was supposed to do is GREAT, i have flown the 38 and have gotten killz in them, but ultimately I am a turn fighter, that is why i fly the Hurri, i use to pissoff a buddy of mine because i would only fly the Zero, but i got sick of how easy it goes up in flames once i tried the Hurri2c, it was a perfect match up for what i very much enjoy doing, that is flying to the biggest red dar, and finding as many bad guys as i can, and seeing how long i will last, and how many i can take with me, so far my best is 7 attacking me, 7 killz, against spits, niks, and i think a 38.
i just gotta get this targeting thing down, after 6 years i still suk at shooting :cry
-
I love it when the noob 38 driver pulls vert with no E and tries to loop at the end. Nothing more beautiful than that :)
-
N1K.
-
Face the facts, the P-38 completely outclasses the Hurricane.
ack-ack
I would agree in general... but a Hurri pilot that knows what he is doing can lure even an experienced 38 stick into the trap.
One of my favourite tactics in the Hurri was dangling the carrot to make the guy who is flying smart to think he has the angle, Hurri is so nimble it can snatch that away in an instant and counter. I always like the old "oh noes! help me i am roped!" routine followed by a swift reversal before the con realises you still actually have E to maneuver with. Even the smartest 38 pilot would have difficulty not presenting any shot opportunity to a Hurricane, and usually a Hurri only needs one chance.
-
Spit 1. Don't believe me? Ask Mensa. :uhoh
-
i absolutely agree, the 38 doing what it was supposed to do is GREAT, i have flown the 38 and have gotten killz in them, but ultimately I am a turn fighter, that is why i fly the Hurri, i use to pissoff a buddy of mine because i would only fly the Zero, but i got sick of how easy it goes up in flames once i tried the Hurri2c, it was a perfect match up for what i very much enjoy doing, that is flying to the biggest red dar, and finding as many bad guys as i can, and seeing how long i will last, and how many i can take with me, so far my best is 7 attacking me, 7 killz, against spits, niks, and i think a 38.
i just gotta get this targeting thing down, after 6 years i still suk at shooting :cry
why fly the noob planes.
On the other hand i have to say the p47d11 is under rated and realy under estimated, also the same i think with the 190A-8 and A-5
-
why fly the noob planes.
On the other hand i have to say the p47d11 is under rated and realy under estimated, also the same i think with the 190A-8 and A-5
A-8's are HO'wagons or vultchers. Nothing more, nothing less.
-
why fly the noob planes.
On the other hand i have to say the p47d11 is under rated and realy under estimated, also the same i think with the 190A-8 and A-5
sorry but the Hurri is not a noob plane, noobs need to run and you cant run from any thing in the hurri,
as a matter of fact there are no noob planes just noob pilots.
there are planes that are easier to fly Mostly spits , or LA7,maybe N1K (with all that ammo) but even those in the hands of a noob are easy to kill.
-
sorry but the Hurri is not a noob plane, noobs need to run and you cant run from any thing in the hurri,
as a matter of fact there are no noob planes just noob pilots.
there are planes that are easier to fly Mostly spits , or LA7,maybe N1K (with all that ammo) but even those in the hands of a noob are easy to kill.
good point.
-8's are HO'wagons or vultchers. Nothing more, nothing less.
Well I actualy try to fight in a A8 when I fly one but I will HO a spit, n1k, or la7 if i get the chance.
-
A-8's are HO'wagons or vultchers. Nothing more, nothing less.
Probably so in most hands. There's a (very) few of us who actually fight in them though.
-
Started out in the south for the first 10 years (Weymouth, Manurewa) and been on the shore since then. Albany at present. West wiataks ....is that Piha or were you a full on westie :D.
Just to add this is another Gixer and his yak (haven't run into you lately though) And if I could get lead right it would be my ride of choice.
Oratia to be exact so yeah closer to Piha then Henderson. Though went to school & worked in Henderson for number of years before going overseas. Use to be based at Hobsonville at one time as well.
Another Gixer? There is only one Gixer and Yak in this game mate. See you around. :D
<S>...-Gixer
-
Face the facts, the P-38 completely outclasses the Hurricane.
ack-ack
That's because it's basically a Twin Engine Dweeb16 with a uber stall model. :P
<S>...-Gixer
-
if i had good gunnery and wasn't such a BADSHOT i would probably never die to a 38 in a 1vs1.
This is a rubbish statement. It totally depends on what plane you are flying at the time.
And have you even faced a good 38 stick?
-
Oratia to be exact so yeah closer to Piha then Henderson. Though went to school & worked in Henderson for number of years before going overseas. Use to be based at Hobsonville at one time as well.
Another Gixer? There is only one Gixer and Yak in this game mate. See you around. :D
<S>...-Gixer
The way you turn people inside out you'd think there were two :D
-
I love it when the noob 38 driver pulls vert with no E and tries to loop at the end. Nothing more beautiful than that :)
Yes, you can zoom in and pick a section to shoot to pieces :devil
-
as a matter of fact there are no noob planes just noob pilots.
there are planes that are easier to fly Mostly spits , or LA7,maybe N1K (with all that ammo) but even those in the hands of a noob are easy to kill.
Give this man a cigar! He hit the nail in the head.
ack-ack
-
yup i think i said they can kill the hurri already but, i find 38s very easy to kill. and i do mean EASY, if i had good gunnery and wasn't such a BADSHOT i would probably never die to a 38 in a 1vs1.
sounds like ur killing ord porkers and not facing 38 sticks. Im a tnb fighter in my 38g ill out turn hurris
you can ask mace we have some great fights and i think mace prolly one of the best woobicane sticks out there.
next to GRIM
Sounds like ur abit pompus too me no offense.................TB(http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/sonar.gif)
-
This is a rubbish statement. It totally depends on what plane you are flying at the time.
And have you even faced a good 38 stick?
ah gee let me think about that, 6 years in AH,
nope never fought any good 38 sticks.... Doh
i only use to fight one of the best(the individual who introduced me to AH) and killed him every time we engaged. him in his 38 me in the hurri. this was about 6 years ago mind you, so any time you want me to give you a lession on how to die against a hurri in a 38, you just let me know.
well actually that would be a little hard right now seeings how i am not currently in the skies of AH, there is always the 8 player LAN.
but don't you worry i will soon be in the skies again, the addiction is too much for me.
-
sounds like ur killing ord porkers and not facing 38 sticks. Im a tnb fighter in my 38g ill out turn hurris
you can ask mace we have some great fights and i think mace prolly one of the best woobicane sticks out there.
next to GRIM
Sounds like ur abit pompus too me no offense.................TB(http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/sonar.gif)
ya i am a bit pompus, (no offense taken)
and no i fight mostly at TT,and if TT isn't available i find the biggest red dar. any one who has flown against me knows this full well.
and the hurris you have "out turned" in the 38, chances are you were slower (i know seems impossible)
but if you know how this game is and Twin i would expect you do, the slower plane will always out turn the faster plane, NO 38 will sustain a tighter turn radius than a hurri, and for anyone to say it can(not saying you did), proves how ignorant that person is.
-
The Hurricane was considered obselete before the war even started, and was replaced ASAP.
The P-38, while designed in the late 30s, was a formidable front-line fighter 'till the end of the war.
The P-38 in the PTO owned the Japanese Zero, an airplane which did almost everything the Hurricane could and did it better.
Which is to say, if it is so easy to kill a P-38 with a Hurri (which it may very well be!), then there is something very messed up going on in AHII (and there may very well be!).
-
The Hurricane was considered obselete before the war even started, and was replaced ASAP.
The P-38, while designed in the late 30s, was a formidable front-line fighter 'till the end of the war.
The P-38 in the PTO owned the Japanese Zero, an airplane which did almost everything the Hurricane could and did it better.
Which is to say, if it is so easy to kill a P-38 with a Hurri (which it may very well be!), then there is something very messed up going on in AHII (and there may very well be!).
i think what happens is allot of 38 (or most sticks that don't fly it) drivers just don't have respect for the Hurri, (as you said it was obsolete at the beginning of the war) they think the hurri driver is just gonna HO them,
i have come to understand my plane, i know exactly what it is capable of, at all Alt, at all speeds, and i willfully put my self into a situation, to test myself, to push my boundaries to become the best that I can become in the plane that i very much enjoy flying.in the Game that i also enjoy very much.
-
but if you know how this game is and Twin i would expect you do, the slower plane will always out turn the faster plane, NO 38 will sustain a tighter turn radius than a hurri, and for anyone to say it can(not saying you did), proves how ignorant that person is.
"slower plane will always out turn the faster plane"
Now that's an ignorant statement. The faster plane will always outturn the slower plane as it can easily use vertical and will dictate the fight. The slower plane is a kill. Sustained tight turn radius isn't worth squat either. I'll take roll,acceleration and climb rate any day.
<S>...-Gixer
-
nope never fought any good 38 sticks.... Doh
The questions isn't so much isn't if you fought any good P-38 sticks but what is your winning record against said P-38 sticks?
ack-ack
-
"slower plane will always out turn the faster plane"
Now that's an ignorant statement. The faster plane will always outturn the slower plane as it can easily use vertical and will dictate the fight. The slower plane is a kill. Sustained tight turn radius isn't worth squat either. I'll take roll,acceleration and climb rate any day.
<S>...-Gixer
i am not referring to the planes potential speed i am referring to the speed of the relative planes at the time of engagement.
in other words, if i am doing 400 in my hurri dropping out of the sky, i attack a low and slow 38, that 38 will be able to out turn my hurri for a few turns, until my speed drops down to my optimum turn speed.
I hope that was easier to understand.
and if you still think the faster plane will out turn the slower plane, well maybe someone else can clue you in.
-
and if you still think the faster plane will out turn the slower plane, well maybe someone else can clue you in.
A plane far enough below corner speed has a lower rate of turn and larger radius than one with abit more airspeed.
However, this may not be useful information, since I think you would have to bleed the Hurri down to 23mph or so before it starts to not turn so well, and this carries practical difficulties. :)
-
The questions isn't so much isn't if you fought any good P-38 sticks but what is your winning record against said P-38 sticks?
ack-ack
It's evident by his statements that he's got little if any experience vs anyone who can really fly the 38 well. Even the G will dominate a hurricane one on one if its well flown. Now personally I do feel the hurricane is the ultimate "dweeb" ride in the game, far beyond its historical capabilities (which explains why its ENY is so low). That aside a 38 (or any plane) with a suitable advantage in sustained E state is more or less immune to a hurricane. As a general rule I view the hurricane as dead meat even if I'm in an A-20...
-
i am not referring to the planes potential speed i am referring to the speed of the relative planes at the time of engagement.
in other words, if i am doing 400 in my hurri dropping out of the sky, i attack a low and slow 38, that 38 will be able to out turn my hurri for a few turns, until my speed drops down to my optimum turn speed.
I hope that was easier to understand.
and if you still think the faster plane will out turn the slower plane, well maybe someone else can clue you in.
Let me help clue you in, turn rate isn't an advantage unless your against noobs or planes that are low and out of E. If you drop down out of the sky and I pull a turn then you deserve a easy kill no matter if your in a good turner or not. However I would never turn against a plane dropping down on me and always use rolls, once E states were equal or I have E advantage I'd then dictate the fight on my terms if you haven't already over shot.
Faster plane will always outturn the slower plane using a Hi or Low Yo Yo. Or just verticle,roll and dropping down. Sustained turn rate is also useless against a plane with a faster initial turn.
I hope that is easier for you to understand.
<S>...-Gixer
-
The Hurricane was considered obselete before the war even started, and was replaced ASAP.
:huh no it wasn't, the Hurricane was one of the most advanced fighters in the world and only really started seeing its age when the 109F was introduced, then it became a seriously good ground attack aircraft.
If it was obselete before the war, like the Blenheim, Battle, Defiant and Gladiator.... 14,000 of them wouldn't have been made - only 16,000 or so Mustangs were built, not bad for a 1939 'obselete' aircraft.
-
It's evident by his statements that he's got little if any experience vs anyone who can really fly the 38 well. Even the G will dominate a hurricane one on one if its well flown. Now personally I do feel the hurricane is the ultimate "dweeb" ride in the game, far beyond its historical capabilities (which explains why its ENY is so low). That aside a 38 (or any plane) with a suitable advantage in sustained E state is more or less immune to a hurricane. As a general rule I view the hurricane as dead meat even if I'm in an A-20...
thats funny, im gonna double quote ya
"that aside a 38 (or any plane) with a suitable advantage in sustained E state is more or less immune to a hurricane" :lol
you need that advantage to kill a hurri ? is this how you fight only when you have a "suitable" advantage?
you say that the Hurri is "ultimate dweeb ride" but than you say that you find them "dead meat even in a, A-20", ummm kinda contradicting to me.
usually any plane with a "suitable" advantage with a good stick at the controls, can take out any plane flown by an experienced stick.
see it seems unlike you, i like to fight from the disadvantage, when i am in my Hurri i am at a automatic disadvantage, due to the lack of speed, the inability to hold my E, or gain E back, and then when i place myself at an even more disadvantage by flying solo in the late war MA, and then even more when i only fly towards the biggest red dar. the thing is this is how i have always flown in AH , no matter what plane i was flying.
i still stand that the Hurri2c is the most under rated fighter.
-
and Gixer,
soon i will be back in the virtual air, i will look you up, so you can test out your Yak against my hurri,
heck you can even have a "suitable" advantage :lol :lol
-
and Gixer,
soon i will be back in the virtual air, i will look you up, so you can test out your Yak against my hurri,
heck you can even have a "suitable" advantage :lol :lol
Any time, let me know when your ready and we'll see if your still laughing.
<S>...-Gixer
-
Any time, let me know when your ready and we'll see if your still laughing.
<S>...-Gixer
the thing about me, you are probably gonna hate, is i hope you can kill me easy, because as i have stated, i want to become the best I can be at what i very much enjoy doing, and that's flying the Hurri, and if you cant kill me, i cant learn from ya and yes i will most certainly still be laughing, because its all fun. and we can only get better by flying against someone better.
and i was wrong i have been in AH since tour 52
-
i still stand that the Hurri2c is the most under rated fighter.
If it was as under rated as you claim it is, you would hardly see them in any of the arenas being flown. Yet, in the MW it is one of the most common planes you'll see in the air and you're guaranteed to see one hovering near any base under attack. Hardly the sign of an under rated plane. Maybe you could press the argument that it is an under-estimated plane but not underrated.
ack-ack
-
C202
-
If it was as under rated as you claim it is, you would hardly see them in any of the arenas being flown. Yet, in the MW it is one of the most common planes you'll see in the air and you're guaranteed to see one hovering near any base under attack. Hardly the sign of an under rated plane. Maybe you could press the argument that it is an under-estimated plane but not underrated.
ack-ack
you very well may be right, but i think i've seen more spits, 51's,190's,
ether way i just checked out the stats, so far this tour Hurri 2c
3156 killz of all models
2226 all models have killz against hurri
with these numbers i would think they were not underrated, or underestimated,
now the spit 16
11086 kills of all models
9652 all models killz against spit
now the p-51D
11821 killz by 51D
10682 killz of 51D
now the N1K
10432 killz by N1K
8054 killz of N1K
i checked those particular planes out because they are always the top deaths and killz of in my stats.
looking at those numbers the hurri is way less flown.
ether way i enjoy flying the hurri and certainly will not stop flying it, i may fly the other fighters, but i always come back to the hurri, its what i do best in, and its the only one i can consistently hit my targets in.
i checked out the LA7 for chits and giggles
16313 of killz
15586 of deaths
-
ah gee let me think about that, 6 years in AH
I am going into my 7th year flying AH and until last year, I never heard of you. What other game IDs did you fly under during the past 6 years ?
-
thats funny, im gonna double quote ya
"that aside a 38 (or any plane) with a suitable advantage in sustained E state is more or less immune to a hurricane" :lol
you need that advantage to kill a hurri ? is this how you fight only when you have a "suitable" advantage?
you say that the Hurri is "ultimate dweeb ride" but than you say that you find them "dead meat even in a, A-20", ummm kinda contradicting to me.
usually any plane with a "suitable" advantage with a good stick at the controls, can take out any plane flown by an experienced stick.
see it seems unlike you, i like to fight from the disadvantage, when i am in my Hurri i am at a automatic disadvantage, due to the lack of speed, the inability to hold my E, or gain E back, and then when i place myself at an even more disadvantage by flying solo in the late war MA, and then even more when i only fly towards the biggest red dar. the thing is this is how i have always flown in AH , no matter what plane i was flying.
i still stand that the Hurri2c is the most under rated fighter.
From your comments you obviously dont know much about me or much about aircombat/ACM either....and actually very little about the hurricane. There is no question at all the hurricane is deadly when well flown, its hardly underestimated. More players will leave it alone then almost any other plane IMO. IMO its about the most overmodeled plane in AH in many aspects....
So yes, the proper way to engage and beat a hurricane is with fundementaly sound E fighting tactics and use of the verticals. Accordingly a plane like a 38 (or A-20) when well flown has the ability to control the flight. In the end the hurricane inevitably creates a vertical two circle fight relying on vertical front quarter shots vs a skilled opponent. At this point the fight has devolved to a cat and mouse "golden BB" fight by the hurricane vs a need for a relatively mistake free attack from the aggressor due to the hurricanes stability at high AOA and insane zoom capabilities/e retention. To me the hurricane is one of the few planes I can safely label a "target" when I'm in an A-20 (this is assuming co-e and a tactically sound position). From my experience many if not most (and yes there are notable exceptions) hurricane drivers are very ACM deficient (much worse then the average spitty driver).
-
I am going into my 7th year flying AH and until last year, I never heard of you. What other game IDs did you fly under during the past 6 years ?
i was wrong, i started out in tour 52(under my own account before that i flew under the guy who brought me here Jozepi, not sure for how long), i was Usurper, back then, than i took on the name INK, joined the Bops, once i left them, i took on the name JETSOM.
and if you remember Jozepi he flew the 38 almost exclusively.
i don't remember if we have ever fought in the MA?
-
i was wrong, i started out in tour 52(under my own account before that i flew under the guy who brought me here Jozepi, not sure for how long), i was Usurper, back then, than i took on the name INK, joined the Bops, once i left them, i took on the name JETSOM.
and if you remember Jozepi he flew the 38 almost exclusively.
i don't remember if we have ever fought in the MA?
Taking a very quick look it appears your mostly an la-7/hurricane/spit driver (looking at tours 74-77) with a pretty average k/d at best for those plane types. Obviously numbers/statistics are rarely capable of giving a completely accurate picture but the pattern shows you to be in planes generally considered to be among the more popular with average sticks.
To give you a comparision my "numbers" in an A-20 (flown as a fighter) are generally on par with yours in a hurricane...
-
From your comments you obviously dont know much about me or much about aircombat/ACM either....and actually very little about the hurricane. There is no question at all the hurricane is deadly when well flown, its hardly underestimated. More players will leave it alone then almost any other plane IMO. IMO its about the most overmodeled plane in AH in many aspects....
So yes, the proper way to engage and beat a hurricane is with fundementaly sound E fighting tactics and use of the verticals. Accordingly a plane like a 38 (or A-20) when well flown has the ability to control the flight. In the end the hurricane inevitably creates a vertical two circle fight relying on vertical front quarter shots vs a skilled opponent. At this point the fight has devolved to a cat and mouse "golden BB" fight by the hurricane vs a need for a relatively mistake free attack from the aggressor due to the hurricanes stability at high AOA and insane zoom capabilities/e retention. To me the hurricane is one of the few planes I can safely label a "target" when I'm in an A-20 (this is assuming co-e and a tactically sound position). From my experience many if not most (and yes there are notable exceptions) hurricane drivers are very ACM deficient (much worse then the average spitty driver).
i don't know how much the Hurri is "over modeled" or if its not, I've never flown one in the RW, heck I've never even been in a plane in the RW,
nope I have no clue who you are except from these boards, I don't think we have ever fought, if we did, you would know full well I know my plane,(not only do i know my plane but I know every plane in AH) you may win a 1vs1 or not, but you would know you were in a fight, and win or lose on my end, I would give you a <S>, for me there is nothing better in AH then a drag out, blood pumping, palm sweating fight. whether its 1vs1 or 1vs how ever many.
and just because i don't use correct terminology, does not mean i don't know ACM.
and you are right, the Hurri2c in the right hands is one of, if not, the Deadliest plane in the game.
-
From your comments you obviously dont know much about me or much about aircombat/ACM either....and actually very little about the hurricane. There is no question at all the hurricane is deadly when well flown, its hardly underestimated. More players will leave it alone then almost any other plane IMO. IMO its about the most overmodeled plane in AH in many aspects....
So yes, the proper way to engage and beat a hurricane is with fundementaly sound E fighting tactics and use of the verticals. Accordingly a plane like a 38 (or A-20) when well flown has the ability to control the flight. In the end the hurricane inevitably creates a vertical two circle fight relying on vertical front quarter shots vs a skilled opponent. At this point the fight has devolved to a cat and mouse "golden BB" fight by the hurricane vs a need for a relatively mistake free attack from the aggressor due to the hurricanes stability at high AOA and insane zoom capabilities/e retention. To me the hurricane is one of the few planes I can safely label a "target" when I'm in an A-20 (this is assuming co-e and a tactically sound position). From my experience many if not most (and yes there are notable exceptions) hurricane drivers are very ACM deficient (much worse then the average spitty driver).
I have to agree here, most Hurri's are flown by people that have little ACM knowledge or if they do get sucked into not using it. I very rarely see a Hurri past up a chance to HO even with E, alt advantage. I don't fly planes that can compete with the Hurri's abilities (over modeled abilities) with my limited flying ability so I just avoid them unless they focus their attention on someone else. Like many here have stated the fight can be dictated most of the time by the Hurri's opponent. Many times just getting a frustrated Hurri pilot to waste gas and ammo is all you need to do and just wait till he heads for home but that Golden BB is always a big threat when fighting the Hurri. It only took one day in the game to realize to stay clear of the Hurricane so I don't see the Hurri as being overlooked or underestimated.
-
Taking a very quick look it appears your mostly an la-7/hurricane/spit driver (looking at tours 74-77) with a pretty average k/d at best for those plane types. Obviously numbers/statistics are rarely capable of giving a completely accurate picture but the pattern shows you to be in planes generally considered to be among the more popular with average sticks.
To give you a comparision my "numbers" in an A-20 (flown as a fighter) are generally on par with yours in a hurricane...
yup I do like those planes, but my true love is the Hurri, and no the statistics don't give you an accurate portrayal , because they don't tell ya how that person flies whether he flies with a bunch of friendlies or vulches(which I DO NOT)or any number of "suitable advantages", I am 95% of the time outnumbered, just the way i like it. and I fight to the death, unless I am bingo. and i generally don't use the rearm pad.
so i tried to check up on your stats whats your ingame ID?
-
humble you are snaphook.
well I checked out your stats but its hard to dictate how you fly by those,
I cant remember ever fighting ya.
my last full tour was 99 with 507 killz, 412 sorties, 20 planes with killz in, granted 310 in the hurri, heck i even got two in the 38.
it shows (if I fly the way I say I do, always out numbered BLA BLA BLA,) then I am more than capable.
and no I don't lie when I describe my flying style.
-
P-39D
-
I tend to be a loner unless we're flying squad ops. Normally I'll up from bases under attack or fly where the numbers are skewed against my side (but not always). More often then not I'm in an A-20 or a P-39D but I fly everything from time to time. Overall I'm a good but not great stick...I tend to be a pretty good E fighter and decent angles fighter but not an "uber" dueler. I'm one of those folks who views the game as pilot dependent...I can probably beat 70% of the player base one on one in an A-20. The flip side is that most of the folks who can/do wup up on me (lets say the top 10%) are capable of doing it regardless of what I'm flying...so the fights with that "middle band" of 20% or so are the ones I fly for....where the other guy handles himself well enough to be a challenge but where I can work the combination of relative plane strengths and tactics to eek out a win.
The simple realities are that there are some guys you just dont want to catch, statistically I get to be the bat more often then not, but I spend plenty of time getting my cover knocked off as well :O :D
-
I'll second that, Snaphook flies the A-20 very very well and I have personally witnessed him kill a pleura of different aircraft flown by some decent sticks. I have fallen to his guns on many occasions which means nothing cause " I SUCK" but he does kill 80% of the guys he fights.
-
I am going into my 7th year flying AH and until last year, I never heard of you. What other game IDs did you fly under during the past 6 years ?
I had never heard of Ink either, ran into him in the MA in furball island a few months back with him in his Hurri - not a bad stick at all.
-
I had never heard of Ink either, ran into him in the MA in furball island a few months back with him in his Hurri - not a bad stick at all.
why Ty Furball, i hear your the guy to beat :D
you and now that Laviathan(SP?) is back.
i just love to fight, and in here i wont go to Jail for blasting em full of Hazookas.
-
why Ty Furball, i hear your the guy to beat :D
you and now that Laviathan(SP?) is back.
i just love to fight, and in here i wont go to Jail for blasting em full of Hazookas.
Leviathn ... probably the one best stick you will ever run into and a great guy to boot ... he hates to lose, but never blames anyone but himself for a loss.
-
Leviathn ... probably the one best stick you will ever run into and a great guy to boot ... he hates to lose, but never blames anyone but himself for a loss.
ya thats what i hear, this is also why i cant wait till he is back to his ol self so i can learn from the best.
you can only get better by flying against someone better, i guess that goes with every type of competition in life.
-
I'll second that, Snaphook flies the A-20 very very well and I have personally witnessed him kill a pleura of different aircraft flown by some decent sticks. I have fallen to his guns on many occasions which means nothing cause " I SUCK" but he does kill 80% of the guys he fights.
I keep hearing about how <name> is great in a A-20 and kills fighters but I've never seen it. A-20's are only slightly harder then a Goon to kill and only for the HO factor they go for and that compared to a Goon they take two rounds instead of one to destroy..
A-20 is a fun ride but it isn't a fighter.
<S>...-Gixer
-
I keep hearing about how <name> is great in a A-20 and kills fighters but I've never seen it. A-20's are only slightly harder then a Goon to kill and only for the HO factor they go for and that compared to a Goon they take two rounds instead of one to destroy..
A-20 is a fun ride but it isn't a fighter.
<S>...-Gixer
There are a couple of players (snaphook and cobia38) that can make the A-20 dance pretty well in a fight and usually provide a nice fight as well. I think most fall to them because they do under-estimate the ability of the A-20 to maneuver, it is deceptively agile for a plane its size.
ack-ack
-
I keep hearing about how <name> is great in a A-20 and kills fighters but I've never seen it. A-20's are only slightly harder then a Goon to kill and only for the HO factor they go for and that compared to a Goon they take two rounds instead of one to destroy..
A-20 is a fun ride but it isn't a fighter.
<S>...-Gixer
stop by MW some evning Gixer, I bet i can change your mind on that one.
-
stop by MW some evning Gixer, I bet i can change your mind on that one.
There is no girlie-man Yak in the MW <BG>
ack-ack
-
There is no girlie-man Yak in the MW <BG>
ack-ack
he could always fly the hurri :rofl
-
stop by MW some evning Gixer, I bet i can change your mind on that one.
Will do, peek times aren't easy for me due to time difference but will try.
<S>...-Gixer
-
There is no girlie-man Yak in the MW <BG>
ack-ack
Just tuckers flying P-38's. Now I can't remember does that help your Aim or SA? :lol
<S>...-Gixer
-
Just tuckers flying P-38's. Now I can't remember does that help your Aim or SA? :lol
<S>...-Gixer
Both, especially if I'm about to pick the N1K2 you're fighting at the time <BG>
ack-ack
-
Both, especially if I'm about to pick the N1K2 you're fighting at the time <BG>
ack-ack
:rofl
Payback is going to be sweet on that one day. :D
<S>...-Gixer
-
Its a trend that changes but right now I would say the P-39.
FM-2, P-38, Yak-9U? I dont think so, they all have a good rep in the MA as dogfighters, the P-38 has a very large following, its hardly under rated.
-
Ki-61 :aok
-
I'm going to say the La7 is under-rated. People tell me all the time how it is an easy target to deal with for any fighter at any altitude.
In all seriousness, the general air of contempt for the thing means that probably 90% of the time the pilots who could fly it to its full potential aren't doing so.
-
190A-8
-
110G-2 is pretty under rated, as is 109G-2/F-4 - real nice planes.
Oh and D3A :)
-
I'm going to say the La7 is under-rated. People tell me all the time how it is an easy target to deal with for any fighter at any altitude.
In all seriousness, the general air of contempt for the thing means that probably 90% of the time the pilots who could fly it to its full potential aren't doing so.
Tend to agree but wouldn't go as far as saying they are under-rated. I would never class a La7 as an easy target. Simply because it can easily extend and run away, but I never seem to have a problem with them if I can catch them, unlike a spit16 which seems to be able to make a dozen mistakes and still get away with a win. But it does fall within all the other top tier and perk rides and definetly 90% don't fly them even close to their potential.
<S>...-Gixer
-
There is no girlie-man Yak in the MW <BG>
ack-ack
hehe yes there is
the 9T variant
-
Furball already covered the ridiculous idea that the Hurricane was considered obsolete at the start of WWII. It wasn't obsolete and wasn't considered obsolete.
The Hurricane is also, in my opinion, significantly overmodeled in AH. It is much too agile. The Bf110 is also overmodeled in my opinion.
-
Mosquito.
Please ho me. If I miss I can still outrun you. :)
nuff said.
-
I'm going to say the La7 is under-rated. People tell me all the time how it is an easy target to deal with for any fighter at any altitude.
In all seriousness, the general air of contempt for the thing means that probably 90% of the time the pilots who could fly it to its full potential aren't doing so.
Are there really people that stupid and pathetic that they would avoid flying a cartoon airplane because others have contempt for it? :lol
-
Are there really people that stupid and pathetic that they would avoid flying a cartoon airplane because others have contempt for it? :lol
No because they are boring and too easy to get kills in.
<S>...-Gixer
-
Hurricane Mk. I
I was going to say that as well :noid
Also the C.202
-
Criteria is, "what fighter do most people underestimate in capability when they happen across it in the MAs"?
I would say the F6F for me. But mostly its not the plane I underestimate it is the pilot.
-
Used to say it was the F4F-4 WILDCAT, but since the P-39D AIRCOBRA came out I would have to go with it.
At first lots didn't like it and complained about the poor visibility out of the cockpit - most still do. But in early war scenarios it can be a formidable fighter in the right hands.
:salute
-
Are there really people that stupid and pathetic that they would avoid flying a cartoon airplane because others have contempt for it? :lol
How often do you see a really hot stick land any La7 kills? Not too regularly. When they do use them, it is mostly for desperate base defense, not in a dominating air-superiority role.
That monster performer is IMO the only non-perk airplane in the game in which a green pilot can stand a chance against a more experienced stick in certain other airplanes. Don't speak to me of Spit16s, the fact is that almost anything that cannot out-maneuver Spixteens can out-run them. The same cannot be said of Lalas.
-
How often do you see a really hot stick land any La7 kills?
i get killed by Paccerr a lot in his La and he lands em
-
i get killed by Paccerr a lot in his La and he lands em
Paccerr is just another score potato hence probably why he is in a La7 in the first place. Not a hot stick.
Pick and run.
<S>...-Gixer
-
Are there really people that stupid and pathetic that they would avoid flying a cartoon airplane because others have contempt for it? :lol
YES!!
After reading through alot of the ignorant ramblings on these BBs, did you really have to ask that question?
-
How often do you see a really hot stick land any La7 kills? Not too regularly. When they do use them, it is mostly for desperate base defense, not in a dominating air-superiority role.
That monster performer is IMO the only non-perk airplane in the game in which a green pilot can stand a chance against a more experienced stick in certain other airplanes. Don't speak to me of Spit16s, the fact is that almost anything that cannot out-maneuver Spixteens can out-run them. The same cannot be said of Lalas.
A hot stick? :lol
I think a bigger reason the hot sticks dont use 5 eny airplanes is cause its hard to land meaningful perks in them. Plus the LA doesnt have much legs which means they can only vulch for so long in them. :lol
Anything, any other reason please other then "they worry about what others will think regarding what cartoon airplane they fly". :lol I just really dont want to believe any adult would give a rats arse about what anyone else would think if they upped an LA-7. I mean why would you care?
Ill tellya a funny story. I was defending at a base under attack, by Bish no doubt, where they had a prolonged vulch going on. I finally got up an LA-7 and either thru sheer luck, or desperation, was able to shoot down 5 vulchers, all with tons more alt and speed then I. The surviving vulchers, no doubt "hot sticks" all, landed their 15 kills, all helpless planes on the runway, to thunderous applause from their drones.
I landed my shotup LA-7, "bombrich landed 5 kills", and you know what someone said to me? They said, "we dont give WTGs to LA-7s". :rofl
At times, its even more apparent then other times, that this is a kids game.
I dont fly LA-7s much anymore cause I dont want to give these "hit sticks" :lol easy perks at a vulch. I'll upp an IL-2 instead and face shoot em, and then listen to them rant about how I HO'd them while they were shooting helpless planes on a runway. :D
-
as a matter of fact there are no noob planes just noob pilots.
100% True.
Ever have that sick feeling of anxiety as an LA-7 dives down on your six... -immediately replaced- with an evil grin when you see the n00b start opening up at 2k away?
-
Furball already covered the ridiculous idea that the Hurricane was considered obsolete at the start of WWII. It wasn't obsolete and wasn't considered obsolete.
The Hurricane is also, in my opinion, significantly overmodeled in AH. It is much too agile. The Bf110 is also overmodeled in my opinion.
i have to disagree . The 109 pilots feared the hurri far more than the spitfire because of it's very stable platform and very good turn and roll rate.