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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: kevin5159 on July 10, 2008, 10:55:09 AM

Title: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: kevin5159 on July 10, 2008, 10:55:09 AM
Hi I'm new here and was wondering if they've factored in the "Survivability" of the different planes? I've been fascinated with WWI and WWII aircraft since I was a kid and I'm really interested in flying the P-47 in the game. One of my favorite shows has some info on the P-47 but was wonder how close the simulation in the game here matched the real planes sealed fuel tanks, armor plating etc...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WBH5RID_ejo
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Coolguy0730 on July 10, 2008, 11:32:36 AM
I dont fly the P-47 very much, but I can tell you it can take ALOT of hits and still beable to fight.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: angelsandair on July 10, 2008, 11:34:12 AM
I dont fly the P-47 very much, but I can tell you it can take ALOT of hits and still beable to fight.

Yep. Before you ever lose a wing to your P-47, you'll probably lose all of your guns first.

Those are the only damages I frequently get from a P-47. I've seen those things take up to 4 hits by a 30mm from a 109K-4.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Motherland on July 10, 2008, 11:35:47 AM
Remember, when you start flying it, that the P47 was a strong airframe, but it was NOT invincible, and it was no match for the armament of a mid-late war RVG aircraft. By 'strong airframe', you can take probably 5-6 20mm hits, if your lucky, but a concentrated, even short burst on any one point of the a/c will bring it down.

'...Then suddenly four other peculiar looking single engine aircraft dive past. They have the white star and broad white stripes as wing markings. Blast! They are Thunderbolts. I have not seen them before.
I immediately dive down after them. They swing round in a steep spiral heading for a lone Flying Fortress whose two outside engines have stopped. There is a Messerschmitt on its tail: it is Reinhard.
The bloody fool has eyes only for his fat bomber, and is unaware of the enemy fighters coming up behind.
"Reinhard, Reinhard, wake up! Thunderbolts behind!"
Reinhard does not reply, but keeps on calmly blazing away at his Fortress. I go flat out after the thunderbolts. The first of them now opens fire on my wingman. The latter just keeps firing at his victim.
But now the leading thunderbolt is a perfect target in my sights. A single burst of fire from my guns is all that is needed. It bursts into flames and goes down spinning like a dead leaf into the depths below. It is my second kill today. ...'
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Angus on July 10, 2008, 02:51:19 PM
You should see the P47 who lost it's 500 lbs bomb with the effect of it exploding under the aircraft...
(Is that Widewings's site?)
Anyway, the pilot was fit for duty a few days later....had problems with the hearing from the "kaboom"
P47 = rugged bird..
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Toof on July 10, 2008, 04:36:40 PM
The main weakness I've seen from the p47 variants in game is a weak tail area. A handful of good shots stand a good chance of dislodging a rudder/elevator/the whole thing. Conversely the rest of the plane is built like a tank.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 10, 2008, 05:14:31 PM
They don't take cannon hits very well in the wing root area.  It's where I always aim when firing at P-47s.  Usually only a single burst to that area with 4x .50s and 20mm cannon does the job nicely.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Masherbrum on July 10, 2008, 05:19:57 PM
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/BrazilianP-47hitschimney.jpg)

The above Brazilian P-47 hit a chimney,  I believe over 1m of the wing is missing.   It returned home from a ground attack, where it hit a factory chimney. 
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: angelsandair on July 10, 2008, 05:22:08 PM
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/BrazilianP-47hitschimney.jpg)

The above Brazilian P-47 hit a chimney,  I believe over 1m of the wing is missing.   It returned home from a ground attack, where it hit a factory chimney. 

2 things.

1. NICE PIC!

2. Did the Brazilians fight in WW2? Jut curious.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: DaveJ on July 10, 2008, 05:47:24 PM
I've had many a hard time shooting down jugs. Usually it turns out that I end up giving them bursts right down the fuselage but no damage being inflicted, and requiring me to come in for a 2nd pass which I hate having to do.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: angelsandair on July 10, 2008, 05:49:36 PM
I've had many a hard time shooting down jugs. Usually it turns out that I end up giving them bursts right down the fuselage but no damage being inflicted, and requiring me to come in for a 2nd pass which I hate having to do.

Earlier today, I kilt 2 P-47Ns and a P-47D40. It seemed that the P-47N was easier to kill. As both were the same deflection shots and were hits about the same amount. I had to make 2 passes on the P-47D40  :aok
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 10, 2008, 06:30:32 PM


2. Did the Brazilians fight in WW2? Jut curious.

yes, they took part in the Italian campaign.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: E25280 on July 10, 2008, 06:49:59 PM
2. Did the Brazilians fight in WW2? Jut curious.
Yes, and as a matter of fact, there is a Brazilian skin for the P-47D-40 (1FS Brazil by Kev367th).
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Redlegs on July 10, 2008, 08:46:17 PM
Yes, and as a matter of fact, there is a Brazilian skin for the P-47D-40 (1FS Brazil by Kev367th).

oh beat me too it
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: splitatom on July 11, 2008, 12:33:46 AM
I fly back with half a wing a lot  normaly i get shot down because my tail gets destroyed
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: DPQ5 on July 11, 2008, 12:58:29 AM
I fly the P47 alot, seem to be the plane i spend the second amount of my time in after the 190A8 and i believe its a very durable plane in the game but it seems to lack the armor it had.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Motherland on July 11, 2008, 01:03:49 AM
i believe its a very durable plane in the game but it seems to lack the armor it had.
Contradict yourself much?
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: DPQ5 on July 11, 2008, 01:26:37 AM
Contradict yourself much?

 :noid
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on July 11, 2008, 07:42:31 AM
Perhaps the razor back p47 helps people survive more.

Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Rebel on July 11, 2008, 09:11:46 AM
Perhaps the razor back p47 helps people survive more.



Actually, I've found that one to be the mose "pilot wound happy" of the bunch.   

Others' observations may be different, but a puffy ack went off behind me in a Razorback, and I wound up with a hole in the back of the plane, and blood all over my windsheild.  Barely made it back. 
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Xasthur on July 11, 2008, 09:25:34 AM
Remember, when you start flying it, that the P47 was a strong airframe, but it was NOT invincible, and it was no match for the armament of a mid-late war RVG aircraft. By 'strong airframe', you can take probably 5-6 20mm hits, if your lucky, but a concentrated, even short burst on any one point of the a/c will bring it down.

'...Then suddenly four other peculiar looking single engine aircraft dive past. They have the white star and broad white stripes as wing markings. Blast! They are Thunderbolts. I have not seen them before.
I immediately dive down after them. They swing round in a steep spiral heading for a lone Flying Fortress whose two outside engines have stopped. There is a Messerschmitt on its tail: it is Reinhard.
The bloody fool has eyes only for his fat bomber, and is unaware of the enemy fighters coming up behind.
"Reinhard, Reinhard, wake up! Thunderbolts behind!"
Reinhard does not reply, but keeps on calmly blazing away at his Fortress. I go flat out after the thunderbolts. The first of them now opens fire on my wingman. The latter just keeps firing at his victim.
But now the leading thunderbolt is a perfect target in my sights. A single burst of fire from my guns is all that is needed. It bursts into flames and goes down spinning like a dead leaf into the depths below. It is my second kill today. ...'


Wonderful quote, thanks mate.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Xasthur on July 11, 2008, 10:09:22 AM
I flew a P 47N in a mission the other night and it was one tough b|tch. Flying through weeble wobble fire and pounding Il2s After I'd cleared the higher cons.

I took an oil hit, stuck around and shot down another Il2 and then flew the 40odd miles back to base and still had a solid quarter remaining on the oil pressure gague.

Tough stuff.

Don't expect the wings to be any tougher than that of many other aircraft, it's in the engine and the massive plane around the pilot that its reputation for coming home shot all to watermelon was born.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Karnak on July 12, 2008, 04:31:30 AM
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/BrazilianP-47hitschimney.jpg)

The above Brazilian P-47 hit a chimney,  I believe over 1m of the wing is missing.   It returned home from a ground attack, where it hit a factory chimney. 
I have a photo of a Mossie 6 that struck the mast of a U-Boat while straffing it and had its entire cannon package ripped from the aircraft, but it did bring back the Nazi naval jack.

But keep in mind why these photos get taken and published.  It is because they are extrordinary and thus notworthy.  Almost none of the P-47s that were only hit by a small burst and went down immeadiately have their stories told and none of those are well publisized.  Yes, certain aircraft were definately tougher than others and the P-47 is among the short list of standouts, but it was also just another aluminium stressed skin structure with all the inherent frailties.

My list of standout tough aircraft is B-17 Flying Fortress, F4F Wildcat, F6F Hellcat, Il-2 Sturmovik, Mosquito, P-47 Thunderbolt and Wellington.

I have heard that the F4U Corsair, H8K "Emily", Hurricane, Ju88, Lancaster and P-38 Lightning were also tough, but I haven't gotten the feeling from comments abou them as I have about the seven I listed above.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: BnZ on July 12, 2008, 09:13:05 AM
P-47 fuel tank catches fire more than other aircraft, seems like.

R2800 in AHII runs a long time on oil-out allright, but if anything, those big radials seem to actually be stopped MORE easily than the inline engine of other aircraft I fly. I've noticed this in the Hog at any rate, but Hog and Jug having the same engine, surely they are damaged model the same.

Otherwise, tough cookie.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Widewing on July 12, 2008, 10:03:33 AM
Remember, when you start flying it, that the P47 was a strong airframe, but it was NOT invincible, and it was no match for the armament of a mid-late war RVG aircraft. By 'strong airframe', you can take probably 5-6 20mm hits, if your lucky, but a concentrated, even short burst on any one point of the a/c will bring it down.

'...Then suddenly four other peculiar looking single engine aircraft dive past. They have the white star and broad white stripes as wing markings. Blast! They are Thunderbolts. I have not seen them before.
I immediately dive down after them. They swing round in a steep spiral heading for a lone Flying Fortress whose two outside engines have stopped. There is a Messerschmitt on its tail: it is Reinhard.
The bloody fool has eyes only for his fat bomber, and is unaware of the enemy fighters coming up behind.
"Reinhard, Reinhard, wake up! Thunderbolts behind!"
Reinhard does not reply, but keeps on calmly blazing away at his Fortress. I go flat out after the thunderbolts. The first of them now opens fire on my wingman. The latter just keeps firing at his victim.
But now the leading thunderbolt is a perfect target in my sights. A single burst of fire from my guns is all that is needed. It bursts into flames and goes down spinning like a dead leaf into the depths below. It is my second kill today. ...'


Bob Johnson, whose P-47 sucked up more than twenty 20mm hits and several hundred 7.92mm hits explained his observations during the war.

"Yes, Thunderbolts could fly home after receiving a terrible pounding. Many came home with damage that would have knocked down a B-17. That was not always the case though. A single 20mm hit in the right place could end your day. Luck, or call it fate if you prefer, was always a factor. One 20mm hit to the fuel line at the fire wall would usually mean a very serious fire. Armor did not extend around the cockpit. One hit from the side or above could kill or wound the pilot.

While I am convinced that the Thunderbolt was the toughest fighter ever to fly in combat (in WWII), and had the lowest loss rate of any fighter in the war, it was far from invulnerable."


My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Captfish on July 12, 2008, 10:03:47 AM
I dont fly the 47 that much, but from what i have seen the F6F seems to be the strongest. That thing just takes a lickin and keeps on tickin! It also has the same engine as the f4u and p47.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: SlapShot on July 12, 2008, 10:20:44 AM
I dont fly the 47 that much, but from what i have seen the F6F seems to be the strongest. That thing just takes a lickin and keeps on tickin! It also has the same engine as the f4u and p47.

They didn't call Grumman ... "Grumman Iron Works" ... for nothing.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Noir on July 12, 2008, 12:06:36 PM


My list of standout tough aircraft is B-17 Flying Fortress, F4F Wildcat, F6F Hellcat, Il-2 Sturmovik, Mosquito, P-47 Thunderbolt and Wellington.

I have heard that the F4U Corsair, H8K "Emily", Hurricane, Ju88, Lancaster and P-38 Lightning were also tough, but I haven't gotten the feeling from comments abou them as I have about the seven I listed above.

add the yak9u (ingame) to that list, test it if you want but their wings are very resistant especially.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: BnZ on July 12, 2008, 02:46:45 PM
The Typhoon/Tempest seem pretty tough in the wing fuselage area, although the chin radiator gets taken out by ack rather easily.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: angelsandair on July 12, 2008, 11:45:13 PM
The Typhoon/Tempest seem pretty tough in the wing fuselage area, although the chin radiator gets taken out by ack rather easily.

Typhoon is a monster. I got called a "H4xx0r" on 200 a couple of days ago. Because I took 3 30mm tater hits. (course, all 3 were in different places in the middle of my plane taking out 2 guns, and a whole bunch of other stuff..  :rolleyes:


Today in the DA, I shot a P-47D11 w/ 2 30mm taters and got nothing. IMO, it seems the D11 lasts longer.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: ian5440 on July 13, 2008, 01:58:16 PM
IMO, it seems the D11 lasts longer.

i actually think the 40 last longer, just an opinion,mainly because when im fighting a D11, i just get right n their six and its quite difficult to see you

another thing, when fighting the 47 with 50 cals, the plane gets annoying how well it can survive
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Noir on July 13, 2008, 02:24:15 PM
The Typhoon/Tempest seem pretty tough in the wing fuselage area, although the chin radiator gets taken out by ack rather easily.

when I see the thickness of that wing I'm not surprised
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Kweassa on July 14, 2008, 12:42:48 AM
Quote
...but it seems to lack the armor it had.

 ... for the gazillionth time, what "armour" ?

 Even the heavily armed Fw190A-8 Sturmbock variants rarely had any "armour" - just additional armour plating around the cockpit and the ammo boxes, and thicker windshield glass was about all it had.

 Just where this did myth of certain "tough planes have armour" start in the first place?

 

 
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Wingnutt on July 15, 2008, 12:06:45 PM
the achilles heel of the jug is the fuel..

take a hit to main fuel farther than half a sector out from a friendly base and your done..  1 big fuel tank that leaks REALLY fast.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Jappa52 on July 15, 2008, 11:57:00 PM
I have a photo of a Mossie 6 that struck the mast of a U-Boat while straffing it and had its entire cannon package ripped from the aircraft, but it did bring back the Nazi naval jack.

can you post this please?


Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: titanic3 on July 16, 2008, 09:14:35 AM
http://www.ww2fighters.org/images/p47/fireballDAM.jpg

Not tough enough eh? half a wing, bended/crooked fuselage, oil leaks, and a few holes here and there.. (sarcasm).

Taken from another WWII Flight Sim: Jane's WWII Fighters.
I happened to get shot up by a Fw 190 and got blown up badly by ack. Landed back at a base at Aachen with no gears. Even though it's a different game, it still show the survival rate of the 47.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: MachNum on July 17, 2008, 03:10:50 PM
the achilles heel of the jug is the fuel..


I'd agree with that observation. A fuel hit will do you in when flying a P-47, and ack seems fine tuned to hit the fuel.
What happened to that whole "self-sealing" fuel tank thing?  :(
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Kweassa on July 18, 2008, 12:32:29 PM
Quote
I'd agree with that observation. A fuel hit will do you in when flying a P-47, and ack seems fine tuned to hit the fuel.
What happened to that whole "self-sealing" fuel tank thing?

 A simple explanation would be that in most cases you've been hit, some hits actually did hit the fuel tanks, and yet failed to ignite due to the self-sealing tanks, or whatever method of modelling AH uses to depict its effect - thus, players only notice when the fuel ignites, and casually forget all the other instances when it didn't. Its entirely possible the "whole self-sealing fuel tank thing" is already working.

 Ofcourse, unless HT chimes in there's no way of being sure.
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: NEARY on July 18, 2008, 01:06:20 PM
the p-47 can fly with half a wing off. i would know i was alone flying a tbm against bish and a p-47 attacked me i shot half its wing off with my turrut but it was still flying, all that got hit was a gunand i still took out the radar for 13.75 perks but ten minutes after the p-47 attacked i got a you shot down game id. i still can't believe it stayed up that long. :mad:
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: Widewing on July 18, 2008, 02:09:05 PM
the p-47 can fly with half a wing off. i would know i was alone flying a tbm against bish and a p-47 attacked me i shot half its wing off with my turrut but it was still flying, all that got hit was a gunand i still took out the radar for 13.75 perks but ten minutes after the p-47 attacked i got a you shot down game id. i still can't believe it stayed up that long. :mad:

A good pilot would have no trouble landing a P-47 missing half a wing....


My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: Survivability of the P-47
Post by: ian5440 on July 18, 2008, 02:38:28 PM
A good pilot would have no trouble landing a P-47 missing half a wing....

thats what i got from NEARY ??

it just sounds like your contradicting him