Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: angelsandair on July 12, 2008, 12:51:35 PM
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I dont know the whole story but at about 5:30 Central time, some bank got closed down. Big bank too.
From what I know, if its only this bank closing down, it wont be that bad, but if everybody starts taking their money out of their banks, it could lead to another depression from what I was watching on the news. :O
I sure hope not.
Anybody got the details on it? I did a google search but didnt find anything...
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Update - 2008-07-11: (End of day - 3:57 pm PDT) "On, Friday, July 11, 2008, IndyMac Bank, FSB ("IndyMac Bank") was closed by the Office of Thrift Supervision ("OTS") and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation ("FDIC") was appointed as Receiver (the "Receiver"). Under the laws of the United States, the Receiver is charged with the duty of winding up the affairs of IndyMac Bank."
The FDIC has put out a guide to answer consumer, investor and media questions.
I found it on this web site
http://ml-implode.com/ (http://ml-implode.com/)
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Oh okay.
But from what I saw, if everybody starts to freak out and withdrawl all their money like what happened in 1929, you think there could be another depression? :huh
It'll hit us hard big time as my dad works for the construction industry.
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The depression and bank failures that happened in the 20's are what lead to the FDIC and the insurance that every one's bank account has. As long as the account is under 100k (IIRC, it may be more now) the account is fully insured against loss by the bank failure. A bank is a business, like any other and can go out of business but the customers money has a federally mandated insurance policy on it, up to a point.
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the good news is the system worked....... FDIC came in and saved depositors........
the bad news........... many more to come.....
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I dont think that the Govt can cover the whole country if that happens. Well, I hope like hell I'm wrong. (And I frequently am thank God in a sense...) :aok
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I dont think that the Govt can cover the whole country if that happens. Well, I hope like hell I'm wrong. (And I frequently am thank God in a sense...) :aok
you have gold as a good option.
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the good news is the system worked....... FDIC came in and saved depositors........
the bad news........... many more to come.....
Agreed! Along with GM a ford plant closings,lots of automotive dealerships,airline layoffs
Companies being bought out, many layoffs. Can you think of any more?
Don't worry America we have made it through one depression. We can do it again.
Its comming.
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Agreed! Along with GM a ford plant closings,lots of automotive dealerships,airline layoffs
Companies being bought out, many layoffs. Can you think of any more?
Don't worry America we have made it through one depression. We can do it again.
Its comming.
lest we forget the brokerage and real estate meltdowns....
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The depression and bank failures that happened in the 20's are what lead to the FDIC and the insurance that every one's bank account has. As long as the account is under 100k (IIRC, it may be more now) the account is fully insured against loss by the bank failure. A bank is a business, like any other and can go out of business but the customers money has a federally mandated insurance policy on it, up to a point.
AND they have enough capital to cover all possible losses?
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AND they have enough capital to cover all possible losses?
think of it as "us"........not they. and to answer your Q.. no way.
not sure how many of you have 401K plans........but if you have not looked at them in a while......now would be a good time.
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think of it as "us"........not they. and to answer your Q.. no way.
not sure how many of you have 401K plans........but if you have not looked at them in a while......now would be a good time.
Kaw1000<<<<<lost 6k in a quarter.
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Kaw1000<<<<<lost 6k in a quarter.
how much of that, if any, was contribution principal?
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We are heading for a big resession, we can help aleviate the problem if we stop buying from Walmart and the big stores that buy offshore goods and buy local. :aok
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We are heading for a big resession, we can help aleviate the problem if we stop buying from Walmart and the big stores that buy offshore goods and buy local. :aok
we are in a recession....I assure you. the only thing preventing it from not being called that is the unemployment numbers......but all other vairables point to the definition, spot on. combine that with the destruction of real property values.... and one could argue a depression is possible. especially when iran is attacked.... food and gas rationing for certain...huge spikes in the costs of........everything.....and a huge devaluation of the dollar.
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we are in a recession....I assure you. the only thing preventing it from not being called that is the unemployment numbers......but all other vairables point to the definition, spot on. combine that with the destruction of real property values.... and one could argue a depression is possible. especially when iran is attacked.... food and gas rationing for certain...huge spikes in the costs of........everything.....and a huge devaluation of the dollar.
oooo goody :mad:
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how much of that, if any, was contribution principal?
Have not put any money in it in years...when I was in it they matched me a whole Nickel for every dollar I put in!
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Have not put any money in it in years...when I was in it they matched me a whole Nickel for every dollar I put in!
are you able to roll it into a Roth IRA?
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We are heading for a big resession, we can help aleviate the problem if we stop buying from Walmart and the big stores that buy offshore goods and buy local. :aok
Because the only CERTAIN way to keep ourselves out of a recession is to spend more money that we don't have on items we need.
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you have gold as a good option.
Do you actually have the metal in hand? If all you have is a certificate you have less than if you saved dollar bills in a savings account in the bank. If you have just a certificate you invested in a company that says they have gold and will either produce the metal or give you another form of financial fiat but only if the company you invested in remains solvent. If they don't you do not even have the FDIC bank account insurance.
If you have metal in hand you then need to find a way to actually spend it by finding a person who will exchange it for goods in hand on a price or exchange rate you both agree on. That could be interesting engaging in barter vs exchange of government fiat at a set exchange rate.
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Do you actually have the metal in hand?
yes I do, and here's where I buy it.
http://www.williamyoungerman.com/
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we are in a recession....I assure you. the only thing preventing it from not being called that is the unemployment numbers......but all other vairables point to the definition, spot on. combine that with the destruction of real property values.... and one could argue a depression is possible. especially when iran is attacked.... food and gas rationing for certain...huge spikes in the costs of........everything.....and a huge devaluation of the dollar.
A 'recession' is defined as TWO consecutive quarters of negative growth....haven't even had one yet (Well, not until the next report comes out)
Every 6-7 years, we have a small recession, and the news networks dredge up memories of 1929..idiots. (This cycle has been ongoing since WW2) Although it sure LOOKS like its gonna happen this time, due to double-whammy of loan failures and oil prices, main stream news media has over-hyped every little hiccup into people jumping out windows for the last 6-7 years. Lost amidst all this is the 52 consecutive months of growth since the recession of 99-01.
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A 'recession' is defined as TWO consecutive quarters of negative growth....haven't even had one yet (Well, not until the next report comes out)
Every 6-7 years, we have a small recession, and the news networks dredge up memories of 1929..idiots. (This cycle has been ongoing since WW2) Although it sure LOOKS like its gonna happen this time, due to double-whammy of loan failures and oil prices, main stream news media has over-hyped every little hiccup into people jumping out windows for the last 6-7 years. Lost amidst all this is the 52 consecutive months of growth since the recession of 99-01.
people are losing their homes in record breaking numbers......and for that reason alone......it makes this a very very bad time.
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people are losing their homes in record breaking numbers......and for that reason alone......it makes this a very very bad time.
No, idiots are losing their homes in record breaking numbers.
Even reasonably average intelligence people are still holding onto their homes at about the same rate.
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Depression.
Do simple things, collect gold, and seeds. "maby some backup water, and miracle grow)
The gold will be worth the same $ no matter what nation, as its not paper with ink on it.
Seeds may be planted to help your family survive when food gets short, and it will.
The miracle grow can be used to make soil good enough to keep your family alive, the water just in case the weather patters change so much, and your area becomes a wasteland.
Oh and a rifle or two to keep "the law" off your land. ;)
Oh, and a rocking chair to wait out the boring endless days.
I think thats all.
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No, idiots are losing their homes in record breaking numbers.
Even reasonably average intelligence people are still holding onto their homes at about the same rate.
no doubt MANY of the people losing their homes are people who took bad deals......or bought above their means.....but their mistakes nothwithstanding.......we're all going to have to pay for it.
I'm not going to act holier than thou either......I've had the best three years of my professional career....and I'm also actively buying deeply undervalued real estate right now. it's a buyer's dream...but with that said...of the few homes I've purchased recently.......EVERY homeowner was very appreciative...as they were wondering if they would ever sell at all...or even lose their home before they did.
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Read the news on that story....I read it from a few sources and the bottom line is this: They had a terrible lending policy that pushed them into a huge losses. Then news came that they were in deep doo-doo and there was a run on the bank (people grabbing their dough and bailing out).
The bottom line I got from reading about this in the banking sites is that while they would love to blame the mortgage crisis for this, its not that. It certainly contributed but their terrible lending practices put them into the red big time.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aAYLeK3YAie4&refer=worldwide
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We are heading for a big resession, we can help aleviate the problem if we stop buying from Walmart and the big stores that buy offshore goods and buy local. :aok
Ummm... Food you get at Walmart and Food you get at the Dollar General or any place for that matter will probably come from the same place.
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walmart is taking great strides to buy food from local vendors......they have been for the last few months...and in doing so.......are cutting distribution/storage/transportation costs...and passing the saving on to you......the consumer. :)
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People are just too damn paranoid.
Sometimes, I wonder why I watch the news when I walk in the room with it on... :rolleyes: :confused:
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People are just too damn paranoid.
Sometimes, I wonder why I watch the news when I walk in the room with it on... :rolleyes: :confused:
...or does the news watch you? :noid
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Walmart and the large box stores hire people for very small wages import most of their goods from the far east and the best Union man's wife will buy it all up. Even thought the stuff will not last very long it is cheap. Strong Union people are very bad for this as they will not buy quality goods from a reputable supplier even though they may work for one. Just shipping more dollars offshore to build their economy rather than ours. :aok
Heck even Cessna is getting their new aircraft the 162 built in China WTF. Goodbye more jobs, I guess that is ok we are slowly becoming just consumers anyway, let them do all the work. Don't know where we are supposed to get the money to buy the products but they will be cheap. :aok
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Walmart and the large box stores hire people for very small wages import most of their goods from the far east and the best Union man's wife will buy it all up. Even thought the stuff will not last very long it is cheap. Strong Union people are very bad for this as they will not buy quality goods from a reputable supplier even though they may work for one. Just shipping more dollars offshore to build their economy rather than ours. :aok
Heck even Cessna is getting their new aircraft the 162 built in China WTF. Goodbye more jobs, I guess that is ok we are slowly becoming just consumers anyway, let them do all the work. Don't know where we are supposed to get the money to buy the products but they will be cheap. :aok
China needs to get 25 million new Jobs a year. Things will probably get worse for us.
But WalMart help keeps middle-class famlies out of the dump.
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China needs to get 25 million new Jobs a year. Things will probably get worse for us.
But WalMart help keeps middle-class famlies out of the dump.
It is a catch 22 they have us in now we can't live with out them. Yet we should be :aok
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It is a catch 22 they have us in now we can't live with out them. Yet we should be :aok
Ehh, if they give us any crud, we can just make our own things...
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walmart is the laragest non-govt employer in the US. If your "DO NOT BUY FROM THEM" campaign succeedes the us is in alot of trouble!
and no these aren't just low paying jobs walmart's average pay starts above $9/hour
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Ehh, if they give us any crud, we can just make our own things...
We can't make anything anymore we have scrapped many of our factories and the others have to pay their employees a decent wage rather than pennies in China.
I am not against buying from Walmart just buy North American products. That way the money stay here doesn't go East.
just low paying jobs walmart's average pay starts above $9/hour
If you think these are are good paying jobs at a $9 start WOW :O Minimum wage in my part is $8.75. Try and raise your family on that wage :rofl :rofl can't do it sorry. These are low low low paying jobs.
40 hours x $10 = $400 per week
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We can't make anything anymore we have scrapped many of our factories and the others have to pay their employees a decent wage rather than pennies in China.
I am not against buying from Walmart just buy North American products. That way the money stay here doesn't go East.
If you think these are are good paying jobs at a $9 start WOW :O Minimum wage in my part is $8.75. Try and raise your family on that wage :rofl :rofl can't do it sorry. These are low low low paying jobs.
40 hours x $10 = $400 per week
well that does beat $5+ an hour of minimum wage at other places. Not to mention benifits....not to mention HAVING A JOB TO BEGIN WITH! YEA TRY RAISING A FAMILY ON NO JOB AT ALL!
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Damn, I earn $16/hour as a lowly mechanic...:noid
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well that does beat $5+ an hour of minimum wage at other places. Not to mention benifits....not to mention HAVING A JOB TO BEGIN WITH! YEA TRY RAISING A FAMILY ON NO JOB AT ALL!
There are places in north america that are needing workers (drug free) and considering bringing in Chinese. WTF I know you must live in a beautiful place, I do, but if there is no jobs, like where I live, move or go away to work. You don't have to be treated like that. Most of the work my company does is 800 miles away where no one wants to live.
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My Buddy just sent me this:
Friday, July 11, 2008
IndyMac Bancorp Is Seized
It's all over for IndyMac. IndyMac Bancorp Is Seized By Federal Regulators.
IndyMac Bancorp Inc. became the second-biggest federally insured financial company to fail today after a run by depositors left the California mortgage lender short on cash.
The Pasadena, California-based bank specialized in so-called Alt-A mortgages, which didn't require borrowers to provide documentation on their incomes. Its home state has been among the hardest hit by foreclosures.
"Given their focus on Alt-A and a heavy concentration in California, they would have suffered meaningful losses in almost any scenario," Brian Horey, president of Aurelian Management LLC in New York, said before the seizure was announced. Aurelian is short-selling IndyMac shares to gain from declines.
IndyMac becomes the largest OTS-regulated savings and loan to fail and second-biggest financial institution to close behind Continental Illinois in 1984, according to the FDIC.
Liar Loans At Heart Of The Matter
Anyone over the FDIC limit at IndyMac can kiss it goodbye. There has been ample warning. Alt-A loans (AKA Liar Loans) and ridiculous lending policies did this company in.
Wachovia (WB) and Washington Mutual (WM) are both heavily at risk over Alt-A . It is debatable either survives. I talked about Alt-A loans recently in Fannie and Freddie Waterfalls Are Too Big to Bail. Inquiring minds will want to take a look.
We are very close to the point where any bank can fail at any time. If you are over the FDIC limit at Wachovia or Washington Mutual (or for that matter anywhere), do something about it immediately if not sooner.
Mike "Mish" Shedlock
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com
It is only going to get worse and where is the money going to come from to bail out these people.... Print it.... drive the dollar down.
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walmart is the laragest non-govt employer in the US. If your "DO NOT BUY FROM THEM" campaign succeedes the us is in alot of trouble!
and no these aren't just low paying jobs walmart's average pay starts above $9/hour
$9 an hour, huh? ultiply by 40..........$360. now take out taxes....not sure what the percentage is, but we'll be generous, and say $50. they unemployment....anohter $20 or so. now we're down to $290. if there's any benifits, there's a copay.....say maybe $10 a week. now we're down to $280.
$when did $280/week bring home become decent pay? did i miss something?
crap!! i was bringing home $300 a week, back in 1979.
obviously more than that now, and i would sit home and collect unemployment before i'd even get up in the morning for $9/hour.
not meaning to sound cocky, but walmart, at that pay rate does not pay their employees well.
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well that does beat $5+ an hour of minimum wage at other places. Not to mention benifits....not to mention HAVING A JOB TO BEGIN WITH! YEA TRY RAISING A FAMILY ON NO JOB AT ALL!
flipping burgers at mcdonalds starts at 8/hour i believe
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Damn, I earn $16/hour as a lowly mechanic...:noid
you good at your job? seriously? and are you flat rate, or hourly? if hourly, i and good, with decent experience, you/re underpaid.
not bein a wise ass, just sayin.....
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It's the award wage. I get $16/hour for 38 hours and time+1/2 ($24/hour) for the next 4 hours and double time ($36/hour) after that. I usually do a minimum of 40 hours per week, I do 4 about 4 hours every 2nd Saturday.
I am very good at what I do. Sure I'd like to get more but with the current state of affairs I'm looking for ways to help the people I work for to cut costs rather than lay off staff.
Things going the way they are I'm quite happy to have a secure job that pays enough to get us by than become a statistic.
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... where is the money going to come from to bail out these people.... Print it.... drive the dollar down.
It's a good job that the surplus from the last 5 years of economic boom have been saved against bad times like this by an economically conservative administration...
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A little more info on the bank thing...............
http://mensnewsdaily.com/2008/07/11/chuck-schumer-causes-13-billion-run-on-indymac-bank-failure-results/
and here is someone that SEEMS to be claiming we were SET UP ......
http://mensnewsdaily.com/2008/07/12/international-forecaster-the-meltdown-is-a-lock/
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We can't make anything anymore we have scrapped many of our factories and the others have to pay their employees a decent wage rather than pennies in China.
I am not against buying from Walmart just buy North American products. That way the money stay here doesn't go East.
If you think these are are good paying jobs at a $9 start WOW :O Minimum wage in my part is $8.75. Try and raise your family on that wage :rofl :rofl can't do it sorry. These are low low low paying jobs.
40 hours x $10 = $400 per week
Walmart=unskilled labor. If someone wants to earn decent money, acquiring a skill or an education is the path. WHY should Walmart, or anyone else, pay a 'living' wage, when the job qualification is being able to drag barcoded merchandise across a scanner, put said merchandise into bag, and return the customer the amount of change that shows up in the little window?
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you people are so excitable, just slow down and take a breath, president obama and the democratic congress will fix everything next year. :)
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:rofl
oh yeah that's the stuff...
:rofl
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why would anyone raise a family when they had no prospect buy minimum wage unskilled labor?
Wal mart is great for people who have at least two jobs in the family or for kids starting out. It was never meant to be a job for a breadwinner to raise a family of six on.
lazs
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you people are so excitable, just slow down and take a breath, president obama and the democratic congress will fix everything next year. :)
The only thing the new president is going to do is break the news to the public that we are in bad times. There is going to be no money left (no savings for a rainy day) :huh
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why would anyone raise a family when they had no prospect buy minimum wage unskilled labor?
Wal mart is great for people who have at least two jobs in the family or for kids starting out. It was never meant to be a job for a breadwinner to raise a family of six on.
lazs
Well said. WalMart gets slammed for being in existence, offering low prices for goods and services plus employing people who would otherwise be unemployed.
I'd rather see them work, learn a skill and earn a living. Even better, climb up the chain to better positions in the company.
Someone has to do those menial jobs, if not the kids working their first jobs, the adults who cant get anything else.
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doh! wrong thread......never mind :D
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LE Paul :aok
Unfortunatly they are just one of many big box stores that bring stuff in, heck even fisher price and mattel large companies are getting their stuff made off shore rather than employing people that actually buy their product. Bigger profits for them but cuts their own throat eventually. :aok
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Its a global market, they have to compete with others who have also lowered their labor cost.
Look how never ending generous benefits have all but killed GM.
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Look how never ending generous benefits have all but killed GM.
yes, the multi-million dollar benefit packages the CEO's get.
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FFS will you all just calm down.
We're seeing the implosion of one market bubble (housing) whilst another is brewing up nicely (oil). There's nothing new in this.
Bubbles come and go, some people get burned, pensions take a bettering, life goes on. Nine times out of ten, the aftermath of the bubble bursting is exacerbated by panic bred on ignorance and media fear-mongering.
In the immortal words of the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy,
DON'T PANIC.
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yes, the multi-million dollar benefit packages the CEO's get.
No idea if an MP# will snip a link, so here's a good read for you....
Siphoning G.M.’s Future
By ROGER LOWENSTEIN
WHO shot General Motors? The company’s stock is at its lowest level in 50 years, and its market valuation has plunged to $5.9 billion, less than that of the Hershey candy-bar company. The automaker is weighing yet another round of layoffs — and maybe even a fire sale of venerable brands like Buick and Pontiac.
General Motors once manufactured half the cars on the American road, but now it sells barely 2 in 10. Bankruptcy is not unthinkable for Detroit’s former king. The immediate cause of G.M.’s distress, of course, is the surging price of oil, which has put a chill on the sale of gas-guzzling sport utility vehicles and trucks. The company’s failure to invest early enough in hybrids is another culprit. Years of poor car design is another.
But none of G.M.’s management miscues was so damaging to its long-term fate as the rich pensions and health care that robbed General Motors of its financial flexibility and, ultimately, of its cash.
General Motors established its pension in the “treaty of Detroit,” the five-year contract that it signed with the United Automobile Workers in 1950 that also provided health insurance and other benefits for the company’s workers. Walter Reuther, the union’s captain, would have preferred that the government provide pensions and health care to all citizens. He urged the automakers to “go down to Washington and fight with us” for federal benefits.
But the automakers wanted no part of socialized care. They seemed not to notice, as a union expert wrote, that if Washington didn’t provide social insurance it would be “sought from employers across the collective bargaining table.”
Detroit was too flush to envision that it would ever face a financial strain. Ford and Chrysler signed identical pacts with labor, so all three automakers were able to pass on their costs to customers. Besides, the industry’s work force was so young that few workers would be collecting a pension any time soon.
But pension commitments last forever. They far outlived Detroit’s prosperity.
General Motors got into the dubious habit of steadily increasing worker benefits. In 1961, G.M. was able to get away with a skimpy 2.5 percent increase in wages by also guaranteeing a 12 percent rise in pensions. Such promises significantly burdened the company’s future. As workers lived longer, the cost of fulfilling pension commitments rose. And health care costs exploded.
By the 1980s, it was clear that the Big Three automakers faced a serious threat from Japan. But General Motors and the U.A.W. were locked in a mutually destructive embrace. G.M., fearing the short-term consequences of a strike, continued to grant large increases in benefits — creating an intolerable gap between its costs and those of its foreign competitors. Union officials feared to face the rank and file without a big contract.
In the ’90s, the consequences of maintaining a corporate welfare state became too obvious to ignore. In that decade, General Motors poured tens of billions of dollars into its pension fund — an irretrievable loss of opportunity. What else might G.M. have accomplished with that money? It could have designed new cars or researched alternative fuels. Or it could have acquired half of Toyota — a company that the stock market now values at close to $150 billion.
G.M. acknowledged in its most recent annual report that from 1993 to 2007 it spent $103 billion “to fund legacy pensions and retiree health care — an average of about $7 billion a year — a dramatic competitive and cash-flow disadvantage.” During those 15 years, G.M. paid only $13 billion or so in shareholder dividends. The company has been sending far more money to its retirees than to its owners.
After falling $20 billion behind on its pension earlier this decade, G.M. doggedly put money into its plan to catch up. It has also agreed to invest more than $30 billion in a fund to cover future health-care expenses. But these efforts have starved its business.
The sorry decline of General Motors has proved Reuther right: the government is the better provider of social insurance. Let industry worry about selling products.
Unhappily, however, the fate of many public-sector pension plans is even worse than G.M.’s. Responding to the same temptation to offload expenses into the future, public employers have committed to trillions of dollars in future liabilities. In New Jersey, a huge pension liability has created a budgetary nightmare for the state. The city of Vallejo, Calif., burdened by police pensions, recently filed for bankruptcy.
Just as G.M.’s shareholders bore the burdens of its pensions, states and cities will have to force taxpayers to sacrifice in the form of service cuts, tax increases or both.
It is too late to restore G.M. to its former grandeur. But if public officials do not show courage by quickly funding the pensions they have promised to their workers, taxpayers will soon find themselves in an even worse crisis than the one G.M.’s shareholders are facing now.
Roger Lowenstein is the author of “While America Aged: How Pension Debts Ruined General Motors, Stopped the N.Y.C. Subways, Bankrupted San Diego and Loom as the Next Financial Crisis.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/opinion/10lowenstein.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/opinion/10lowenstein.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin)
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Do you actually have the metal in hand? If all you have is a certificate you have less than if you saved dollar bills in a savings account in the bank. If you have just a certificate you invested in a company that says they have gold and will either produce the metal or give you another form of financial fiat but only if the company you invested in remains solvent. If they don't you do not even have the FDIC bank account insurance.
If you have metal in hand you then need to find a way to actually spend it by finding a person who will exchange it for goods in hand on a price or exchange rate you both agree on. That could be interesting engaging in barter vs exchange of government fiat at a set exchange rate.
lol yes this is exactly why I always laugh at people who claim investing in gold is the cure all. Unless you have it in hand, it's as worthless as a dollar if the economy fails.
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walmart is the laragest non-govt employer in the US. If your "DO NOT BUY FROM THEM" campaign succeedes the us is in alot of trouble!
and no these aren't just low paying jobs walmart's average pay starts above $9/hour
Ever wonder about all the jobs and small business who likely helped our economy more than walmart, whom went out of business because they couldn't compete in small town America?
Granted it's a impossible stat to find out, but I just wonder how many small businesses have gone out of business in this country because of Walmart. That and what was the average income/benefits of employees from these small businesses vs the average Walmart employee.
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Walmart=unskilled labor. If someone wants to earn decent money, acquiring a skill or an education is the path. WHY should Walmart, or anyone else, pay a 'living' wage, when the job qualification is being able to drag barcoded merchandise across a scanner, put said merchandise into bag, and return the customer the amount of change that shows up in the little window?
You do realize that the same description could be used to cover anything from bank teller up to and through factory workers of all kinds in addition to the folks who assemble your mode of transportation. I suppose you also realize that not every job that needs to be done in the world requires a college degree and that a college degree rarely prepares someone for the actual tasks in the work place. A notable exception being industrial colleges that teach a tech trade. Even those graduates are behind the curve when they start out.
BTW how do the cashiers at your local mom and pop store, big box hardware store, small box hardware store, any size box store handle the payment transaction?
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Ever wonder about all the jobs and small business who likely helped our economy more than walmart, whom went out of business because they couldn't compete in small town America?
Granted it's a impossible stat to find out, but I just wonder how many small businesses have gone out of business in this country because of Walmart. That and what was the average income/benefits of employees from these small businesses vs the average Walmart employee.
many of those small businesses did not pay more than minimum wage nore did they provide benifits. The average American family saves about $2000 a year shopping at walmart.
Walmart provides jobs in poor communities that otherwise wouldn't be there and no matter what you think $9/hour is better than no dollars an hour.
The biggest problem people usually have with walmart is the fact that they won't let their employees unionize. A bunch of food retailers out in california were paying their CASHIERS $20/hour because of the union. They are no longer in business or slowly fading out.
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You do realize that the same description could be used to cover anything from bank teller up to and through factory workers of all kinds in addition to the folks who assemble your mode of transportation. I suppose you also realize that not every job that needs to be done in the world requires a college degree and that a college degree rarely prepares someone for the actual tasks in the work place. A notable exception being industrial colleges that teach a tech trade. Even those graduates are behind the curve when they start out.
BTW how do the cashiers at your local mom and pop store, big box hardware store, small box hardware store, any size box store handle the payment transaction?
Don't know for sure, but I rather doubt bank tellers make much either---they just need to be able to pass a drug screen and background check, be reasonably intelligent....all the other jobs you mention require training of some sort, at the very least, extensive o.j.t. There's damn little to be done at a Walmart by non-management folks which needs more than a few days of training....if ya ever take a close look at the check-out people, it seems obvious :confused:
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It's a good job that the surplus from the last 5 years of economic boom have been saved against bad times like this by an economically conservative administration...
What are you talking about, things have been going up since Katrina and our Democratic Congress.
They wanna tap an oil reserve and put out 50,000 barrels a day when we use something like 87 million. That's like a nickel out of 87$$
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many of those small businesses did not pay more than minimum wage nore did they provide benifits. The average American family saves about $2000 a year shopping at walmart.
Walmart provides jobs in poor communities that otherwise wouldn't be there and no matter what you think $9/hour is better than no dollars an hour.
The biggest problem people usually have with walmart is the fact that they won't let their employees unionize. A bunch of food retailers out in california were paying their CASHIERS $20/hour because of the union. They are no longer in business or slowly fading out.
First. If you think having a big box store is better than having a couple of small shops consider this. The small stores were probably owned by some one local who also shops local and their money stay in the comunity to go around again. The taxes were paid by multiple people the town had a couple of different places to shop so if they didn't like one person they went to the next.
Second. The money feels good to save right now but the money you do spend is gone from your town and will never return. This is a one way street funneling money OUT of your town. EVERY one looses in this case.
Third. NEVER sit around waiting for a hand out and say it is better than nothing :rolleyes: Move find something better so that you can give your kids a better life.
( I was in a large city earlier this year with a help wanted signs on every corner offering min $15 per hour to start and a street person had the nerve to ask me for money :furious )
Fourth. The only reason that someone needs a union job is that they don't want to make it on their own. There is huge opportunities out there if you just open your eyes. :O
You don't need a collage education just plan something out and work hard.
STOP the pitty party
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I'm with Wooley on this. Some of you need to calm down a bit.
Suggesting you should stockpile your own seeds, guns and gold bullion? Pur-leaze. It's almost like you want a cataclysm to occur simply to make your lives more interesting. Take up a hobby maybe?
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Really we (the rest of the civilised world) have done this to ourselves.
We have allowed our economic power and manufacturing base to be taken from us by a foreign power. We don't even have the machinery or tooling anymore. When China bought it, they took the lot, the machines, the tooling the whole shebang.
They effectively left us with no capacity to quickly kick start these industries. I think that if China did initiate a war like stance, the rest of the world would be in no position to defend our international interests. China would have free reign to sweep up the smaller less capable countries while we bring our military back to our own countries to keep our own borders secure while we attempt to recoup our losses.
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Pure fantasy
Corporations aren't foriegn powers - obviously corporations themselves that take jobs and labour costs overseas to increase profits, so its hardly the chinese in their hollowed out volcanoes plotting western demise. The larger arsenals of democracy hardly call up Beijing to order weapons in times of conflict, thats why you keep your ability to make war in house.
What do you think could happen quicker? China launching an attack into Taiwan, or raising, training and building a mechanised battalion?
Tronsky
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Aww don't go killing my buzz!
I was building a perfectly good conspiracy theory there too!
:cry
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you people are so excitable, just slow down and take a breath, president obama and the democratic congress will fix everything next year. :)
:huh :huh :huh :rofl :rofl :rofl
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US TREASURY secretary Hank Paulson is working on plans to inject up to $15 billion (£7.5 billion) of capital into Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to stem the crisis at America’s biggest mortgage firms.
The two companies lost almost half their market value last week as rumours of a government bail-out swept the stock markets, hammering share prices around the world.
Together, the two stockholder-owned, government-sponsored companies own or guarantee almost half of America’s $12 trillion home-loan market and are vital to the functioning of the housing market.
$15,000,000,000 US taxpayers money going for a bail out, doesn't that bother you :furious :furious
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back to reality.........and away from walmart.......... I'm thinking we see another 10 banks taken ove by the FDIC by the end of the year...
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First. If you think having a big box store is better than having a couple of small shops consider this. The small stores were probably owned by some one local who also shops local and their money stay in the comunity to go around again. The taxes were paid by multiple people the town had a couple of different places to shop so if they didn't like one person they went to the next.
Second. The money feels good to save right now but the money you do spend is gone from your town and will never return. This is a one way street funneling money OUT of your town. EVERY one looses in this case.
Third. NEVER sit around waiting for a hand out and say it is better than nothing :rolleyes: Move find something better so that you can give your kids a better life.
( I was in a large city earlier this year with a help wanted signs on every corner offering min $15 per hour to start and a street person had the nerve to ask me for money :furious )
Fourth. The only reason that someone needs a union job is that they don't want to make it on their own. There is huge opportunities out there if you just open your eyes. :O
You don't need a collage education just plan something out and work hard.
STOP the pitty party
Socialists will never understand it. First, it is a broadly generous AND wrong assumption to say that a Local Mom and Pop store owner buys locally. Just as much as we shop for the best prices, they do too. They do it to sell stuff cheaper than the Aunt and Uncle store across the street. They do it to get the highest profit possible. They do it to make money. Wal Mart just does it better.
They do not do it to lose money. They do not do it for the gratification of selling "Local." They do it to make money.
Next, the money deficits / surplus. Given the above WHICH IS TRUE, 80-90% of all the revenue leaves the local mom and pop stores anyway. They then pay their employees minimum wage. So no more money is staying in the town, possibly even less money.
Wal Mart not only employees more people than all of the smaller stores, but they pay them more. On top of that, every single family in the town is spending less. More pay, less spend... and this is bad somehow?
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It's all that "The Government is seeding everything man!! *takes a hit of a joint* we need to like... just... like... chill out...." :rolleyes: :eek:
I live 20 miles away from Austin, I'm around that crazy stuff all the time... Sometimes, I just sit there and argue with them for fun about it too... :lol
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Don't know for sure, but I rather doubt bank tellers make much either---they just need to be able to pass a drug screen and background check, be reasonably intelligent....all the other jobs you mention require training of some sort, at the very least, extensive o.j.t. There's damn little to be done at a Walmart by non-management folks which needs more than a few days of training....if ya ever take a close look at the check-out people, it seems obvious :confused:
You really ought to go check with some banks about employment. They have been limiting tellers to less than 40 hours a week for years to avoid having to pay benefits. Part time workers in there have saved the banks tons of money in employee benefits. It's not a wally world invention you know.
As far as factory work goes, come on. Are you saying it's hard to teach someone to install a tire on a car? It's hard to train a person to solder a wire into a light fixture much less just screw parts together the same way day after day after day?!?!?! :huh Not really any different than requiring a cashier to be familiar with the relative prices of store inventory, handle cash and maintain positive control over intake and out flow of same.
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edit
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US TREASURY secretary Hank Paulson is working on plans to inject up to $15 billion (£7.5 billion) of capital into Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to stem the crisis at America’s biggest mortgage firms.
The two companies lost almost half their market value last week as rumours of a government bail-out swept the stock markets, hammering share prices around the world.
Together, the two stockholder-owned, government-sponsored companies own or guarantee almost half of America’s $12 trillion home-loan market and are vital to the functioning of the housing market.
$15,000,000,000 US taxpayers money going for a bail out, doesn't that bother you :furious :furious
Funny you should mention that:
"The immediate cause of the closing was a deposit run that began and continued after the public release of a June 26 letter to the OTS and the FDIC from Senator Charles Schumer of New York," the news release stated. "The letter expressed concerns about IndyMac's viability. In the following 11 business days, depositors withdrew more than $1.3 billion from their accounts."
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/07/indymac03.html
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You really ought to go check with some banks about employment. They have been limiting tellers to less than 40 hours a week for years to avoid having to pay benefits. Part time workers in there have saved the banks tons of money in employee benefits. It's not a wally world invention you know.
As far as factory work goes, come on. Are you saying it's hard to teach someone to install a tire on a car? It's hard to train a person to solder a wire into a light fixture much less just screw parts together the same way day after day after day?!?!?! :huh Not really any different than requiring a cashier to be familiar with the relative prices of store inventory, handle cash and maintain positive control over intake and out flow of same.
Does anyof that really matter, in the long run? None of those things requires much more training or back than any of the others, and the only ones that would make any real money are the ones whose salaries are inflated by union contracts, which becomes useless when said plant moves overseas to avoid costs. If you want decent money, acquire some sort of marketable skill--such skills aren't learned in a few days
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Does anyof that really matter, in the long run? None of those things requires much more training or back than any of the others, and the only ones that would make any real money are the ones whose salaries are inflated by union contracts, which becomes useless when said plant moves overseas to avoid costs. If you want decent money, acquire some sort of marketable skill--such skills aren't learned in a few days
Well Said :aok :aok :aok :aok
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Finally! my genius is recognized! (Perhaps you could talk to my missus, who doesn't seem to share your opinion :D)
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...but the customers money has a federally mandated insurance policy on it, up to a point.
That right there is very important.