Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rogwar on July 25, 2008, 03:32:27 PM
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....sitting up close to the bulk head, enjoying the lake scenerey of Lewisville and Grapevine on final approach, and then hearing Betty from the cockpit....
deedle deedle...WIND SHEAR, WIND SHEAR
deedle deedle...WIND SHEAR, WIND SHEAR
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:O
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:pray :pray :pray
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thats better than hearing the pilot say " more throttle, pull up, pull up , oh @#$%&*.
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thats better than hearing the pilot say " more throttle, pull up, pull up , oh @#$%&*.
:lol :lol
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....sitting up close to the bulk head, enjoying the lake scenerey of Lewisville and Grapevine on final approach, and then hearing Betty from the cockpit....
deedle deedle...WIND SHEAR, WIND SHEAR
deedle deedle...WIND SHEAR, WIND SHEAR
BTDT only when returning from Denver to Birmingham and finding out you were descending into a pop up thunderstorm and hearing the rain and hail hitting the windscreen and the pilots yelling "OH S***" as the plane drops several hundred feet as "Bi**hing Betty" says "deedle deedle...WIND SHEAR, WIND SHEAR deedle deedle...WIND SHEAR, WIND SHEAR!"
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....sitting up close to the bulk head, enjoying the lake scenerey of Lewisville and Grapevine on final approach, and then hearing Betty from the cockpit....
deedle deedle...WIND SHEAR, WIND SHEAR
deedle deedle...WIND SHEAR, WIND SHEAR
At least you will have the consolation that you were not flying coach when you went to meet St. Peter. I thought everyone wanted to go out in First Class. :D
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Try being in the back of a Coast Guard HH-65 helo actually suffering from a heart attack and hear the pilot over the intercom to the co-pilot, "Does that look right to you?"
CP, "Looks a little high doesn't it?"
P, "Must be the intruments, we'd be feeling vibrations if it was reading right."
Me, "Hey fellas, want to let me know before we crash what's going on?"
P, "Don't worry, the intruments are showing 25% tourqe splits on the engines :O but if that was right the transmission would have already torn itself apart. We're good but we wont be able to hover and land at the hospital pad, we'll have to do a rolling landing at the Gitmo airfield and take you over to the hospital by boat."
Me, "Gee guys thanks for that, not like I don't already have enough to worry about back here."
Next day get medivaced out of Cuba to Miami on a C-9 hospital plane and have the flight surgeon tell me right before we taxi, "Don't worry about anything, if we need to we can perform open heart surgery in flight."
Not sure what bothered me more about THAT statement. The fact that he told me that, or the look of anticipation on his face as he told me that.
Fun times in the air :aok NOT!!!!!!!!!!
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HOLY :O Hornet!!!!
and there I was thinking life sucked for me right now
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Yeah I was an un-diagnosed hyper tensive. Underway on the Cutter Legare in July 02, 200 miles south of Cuba, and out of nowhere, heart attack. The left decending artery in my heart colapsed due to my extremely high blood pressure.
Never passed out or anything. Was awake and alert for the whole thing. Got to Gitmo and they stablized me and got me ready to go to Miami General where I had a stent put in. Was out of the hospital after 5 days and flew home a few days after that. A month later I was back at work.
I did suffer permenant heart damage though, but considering the docs all told me I was lucky to have a heart attack because if I hadn't and they didn't catch all of this in time I probably would have stroked out.
Meds everyday, get my exercise and I'm good. Just can't do all the things I used to do before but I'm still here and kicking so I'll take it.
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indeed
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At least you will have the consolation that you were not flying coach when you went to meet St. Peter. I thought everyone wanted to go out in First Class. :D
Nothin like being among the first to the scene of the crash.
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thats better than hearing the pilot say " more throttle, pull up, pull up , oh @#$%&*.
left engine... fire. Right engine ... fire. Eject, eject
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I was on a pontoon plane on a fly-in hunting & fishing trip, it was an old Beachcraft, after take-off the dashboard was jumping up & down, about 10min in a knob falls off the instrument panel, the pilot picks it up off the floor and turns to me and ask "Hey, did you see where this fell off from?", lets just say it didn't instill much confidence in me about his piloting skills.
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Beechcraft pontoon plane?
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Beechcraft pontoon plane?
Yeah, I guess I spelled Beechcraft wrong, but it was a pontoon plane, which is a plane that takes off & lands on water, like I said it was old, looked like atleast 30-40 years old.
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Something like the one in this youtube clip?
http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=a2FiFiaEIwA
BTW I just picked it at random since it showed the plane pretty clearly.
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I think a Hot Shots clip is necessary for this thread.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iBzyaspqhy0
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At least you will have the consolation that you were not flying coach when you went to meet St. Peter. I thought everyone wanted to go out in First Class. :D
Id rather be in the back. In the front you get there, "Hi St. Peter I'm---" as 200 some on fire souls coming barreling over the top of you.
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Something like the one in this youtube clip?
http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=a2FiFiaEIwA
BTW I just picked it at random since it showed the plane pretty clearly.
Yeah it was just like that, just the one I was in was a little bit bigger. You can see in the video that the plane was doing the same thing that the one I was in was doing, picking up & dropping off people onto cabins on a lake that you can only get to by pontoon plane.
It's a lot of fun going on a trip like that, the cabins we stayed at were up in Canada and we had no running water, no electricity, and no plumbing, so you used an outhouse, it was just really beautiful up there, no pollution, you drank the water right out of the lake. Only bad thing is if something happens like an accident you have no way of calling for help, just every couple days the owner of the place would fly in to check on us, and take out any bears, or fish we would want mounted. We've gone about 4 times.
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....sitting up close to the bulk head, enjoying the lake scenerey of Lewisville and Grapevine on final approach, and then hearing Betty from the cockpit....
deedle deedle...WIND SHEAR, WIND SHEAR
deedle deedle...WIND SHEAR, WIND SHEAR
well, i was out flying in south jersey tonight in a cessna 172. runway 26, winds 8kts gusting to 14 from 190. treeline on the north side of the runway parallell to it. very hard, and very fun landings. i had forgotten how much work crosswind landings are. caught a bit of minor windshear on 2 or 3 of my climbouts, and on short final.....and that always adds to the fun.
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Had a great takeoff experience on my solo cross country while doing my PPL. Went into one airport on a day that the airport should have been closed. Wind was gusting about 25 and ice on the runway. Needless to say, scared the poop out of me.
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Mid seventies, twin engine twelve seat puddle jumper from DFW to Kileen regional.
Planes weaving all over the place. The door is rattling in its frame. The curtain to
the cockpit is open and I can see the pilot tapping on one of the gauges in the
instrument panel. He quietly confers with the CP who taps several times on the
same gauge and shrugs just before the plane suddenly drops a couple of hundred
feet.
On my next trip I took the bus.
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Had a great takeoff experience on my solo cross country while doing my PPL. Went into one airport on a day that the airport should have been closed. Wind was gusting about 25 and ice on the runway. Needless to say, scared the poop out of me.
sheesh dude......hopefully you didn't land there.......25 is waaay over the limit for small aircraft. i can imagine you running our of rudder trying to keep the nose straight.......
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sheesh dude......hopefully you didn't land there.......25 is waaay over the limit for small aircraft. i can imagine you running our of rudder trying to keep the nose straight.......
Where in the small aircraft limitation magic handbook did you read that?
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Talk about things that make your schvincter pucker :O :O :O :O
YIKES!!
ROX
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The crosswind was less than five degrees down the runway. Remember, doesn't matter what the windspeed is as long as you don't go past the crosswind component.
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The crosswind was less than five degrees down the runway. Remember, doesn't matter what the windspeed is as long as you don't go past the crosswind component.
still, though..the gust factor. it can still really screw up a good flight. i think that personally, i wouldn't have gone. in the off chance something happened, it could've looked bad.
like i said.....i was having a helluva time in 8 gusting to 15 this past saturday. was a workout, but...and this sounds weird to say.......i think it was the most fun i've had in a long long time.
i wasn't too ha[[y with ay of my landings, but my CFI(remember doing my BFR) was happy, and somewhat impressed with them.
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Where in the small aircraft limitation magic handbook did you read that?
you wantr me to scan tthe pages from my cessna POH's? i have them for the 172N, A, and P.
i can go to the flight club too and get them from the archers and warriors if ya like.
:D
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You'll find the word "Demonstrated" ahead of them and find it's rare to have an actual crosswind limitation placed on the aircraft in the AFM.
The only commonly seen limitation has to do with the prohibition of landing with a tailwind component in excess of 10 knots.
The only time I've been limited in crosswind component was flying for a domestic 121 airline which placed a limitation in our SOPs which matched the demonstrated crosswind component for the aircraft (28kts). Because it was written into the GOM it became regulatory and as such had to be adhered to. The other AFMs on my shelf even go out of their way to specify that the demonstrated crosswind components are not limiting.
The Cessna 172 posesses no such limitation. It's been years but memory serves it was demonstrated to what...12 knots or so? Hardly a meaningful limitation for a high winged airplane with plenty of rudder to go around.
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1988 UH1D sitting in seat by the open door. Pilot enters wide banking turn and seatbelt buckle fails and pops open as I'm looking at the ground from about 1000ft. I was holding on tight anyway... I think I left indents in the pole and the seat back :O I needed a new set of greens once we landed.
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I saw a pistol a few years back. That scared the bejeebuz out of me! Hopefully the government can prevent that from ever happening again. I could have gotten myself killed. :frown:
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You'll find the word "Demonstrated" ahead of them and find it's rare to have an actual crosswind limitation placed on the aircraft in the AFM.
The only commonly seen limitation has to do with the prohibition of landing with a tailwind component in excess of 10 knots.
The only time I've been limited in crosswind component was flying for a domestic 121 airline which placed a limitation in our SOPs which matched the demonstrated crosswind component for the aircraft (28kts). Because it was written into the GOM it became regulatory and as such had to be adhered to. The other AFMs on my shelf even go out of their way to specify that the demonstrated crosswind components are not limiting.
The Cessna 172 posesses no such limitation. It's been years but memory serves it was demonstrated to what...12 knots or so? Hardly a meaningful limitation for a high winged airplane with plenty of rudder to go around.
It was actuay demonstrated to 15kts, for the 172. that was a test pilot flying a new airplane with a new engine. obviously an old airplane(which a lot of clubs have) with a pilot that might onl fly 2 or 3 times a month, and mostly on calmer days, will not handle that limit as well.
i was talking about that limit with m CFI while we were working the crosswinds the other day. he had stated that the 172 tends to run out of rudder at the 15kts component.
as for it being a hard fast limit, i believe it is, but then who am i? i've only got 194 total time, and can deal with 8-12kts. 8 is a bit of a workout for me, 12 is difficult. by the end of this year, they'll be easy as i'm spanding all of my non-solo time with my cfi to nail the crosswind landings.
i've seen too many accidents(or near accidents) caused by them, and get the impression that too many pilots have trouble with the winds once they go over 5 or 6kts.
lastly, if you REALLY think you're man enough to land in 25-30kts crosswinds, and you rent(or own i think) go ahead and bend the airplane and find out how insurance deals with it. most of our local clubs also impose the 15kts component. there's a lot of dead and fubared pilots that think they were better than they are. this includes ATP pilots too.
maybe i'm a bit overly cautious, but there will never be an NTSB report generated due to my neglect, or taking an unnecessary risk. my favorite 172(the only one left now) in the club has tried twice. electrical system failure at night, and partial engine failure on take off......both came out great, and were both good learning experiences.
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Well you touched on what I was getting at. Demonstrated crosswind component is just that...demonstrated. It's not (though can be) a limitation if written as such into the AFM or a company specific FOM/GOM. Is it a good idea to adhere to it as a guideline...absolutley! Is it an end-all be-all limitation and the airplane will ball up and you'll die if you exceed it...absolutely not. Just to reiterate..."Demonstrated crosswind component is not usually a limitation." It's found in the limitations section but the way airplanes are certified it may not have been possible for the test pilots to find a situation where the maximum crosswind component for the airplane to have been demonstrated.
It's up to each individual pilot to determine if the conditions are right or safe for whatever they're doing. Sounds like you're doing exactly that (a good thing :aok) but picking an arbatrary number and declaring it unsafe because you say so isn't the way to go about it.
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1988 UH1D sitting in seat by the open door. Pilot enters wide banking turn and seatbelt buckle fails and pops open as I'm looking at the ground from about 1000ft. I was holding on tight anyway... I think I left indents in the pole and the seat back :O I needed a new set of greens once we landed.
My uncle has a similar story from sometime between 1968 and 1970. He was a crew chief on a UH-1 in Germany and he heard over the noise some yelling. It was the door gunner hanging on to the M-60 mount with his legs kicking behind him out the window as he was panicking :O He tells the story better than I do but that has the makings of a great nightmare.
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Well you touched on what I was getting at. Demonstrated crosswind component is just that...demonstrated. It's not (though can be) a limitation if written as such into the AFM or a company specific FOM/GOM. Is it a good idea to adhere to it as a guideline...absolutley! Is it an end-all be-all limitation and the airplane will ball up and you'll die if you exceed it...absolutely not. Just to reiterate..."Demonstrated crosswind component is not usually a limitation." It's found in the limitations section but the way airplanes are certified it may not have been possible for the test pilots to find a situation where the maximum crosswind component for the airplane to have been demonstrated.
It's up to each individual pilot to determine if the conditions are right or safe for whatever they're doing. Sounds like you're doing exactly that (a good thing :aok) but picking an arbatrary number and declaring it unsafe because you say so isn't the way to go about it.
well, i have to admit to being wrong here. for some reason i thought i had remembered reading it to be an absolute number in the POH. i just found it in all 3 of my cessna POH's, and it says exactly as you stated.....that it is not a limitaton.
it may be that i confused that with the clubs i fly out of. the one i used to fly from had some pretty severe restrictions. we couldn't plan a flight to a field with shorter than 3,000 ft runway, no soft fields, and they were anal about the 15kt xwind.
the club i'm in now, has no softfield or runway restrictions, but we have to carry our own renters insurance, and they still stick to the 15kt xwind.
like i said, last year when i was flying 2 to 4 times a month, i was landing in 8-12 ok. i've flow 3 hours since october o7. i need practice. :D i'm getting it, and my CFI is having fun with the xwinds. the airport i fl from(VAY) has a tree line that creates turbulence at the threshold to 26, which makes the landings interesting.
<<S>>
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I'd be anal too about Joe Renter flying my airplane. That's why I'm not going to do a leaseback ;)
Club, flight school and company limitations are fine but again they're not AFM limitations. You can bet your butt my club would have a crosswind policy in place for renters. And a soft field policy of "you wash the plane" :)
Fly safe.
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I'd be anal too about Joe Renter flying my airplane. That's why I'm not going to do a leaseback ;)
Club, flight school and company limitations are fine but again they're not AFM limitations. You can bet your butt my club would have a crosswind policy in place for renters. And a soft field policy of "you wash the plane" :)
Fly safe.
thanks dude///you too.........
i think i would consider doing a leaseback if i bought an older plane. it seems that the club owner has created a situation, that allows the aircraft owner to limit who can fy their planes.
both of the diamonds in the club are set up like that, but none of the warriors or skyhawks as of yet.......
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Golfer and Cap,
Before you guys get to dueling joysticks here there is something you might want to consider. The original post you guys are arguing about didn't mention the "C" word (crosswind) just that the wind was gusting up to 25.
Had a great takeoff experience on my solo cross country while doing my PPL. Went into one airport on a day that the airport should have been closed. Wind was gusting about 25 and ice on the runway. Needless to say, scared the poop out of me.
The ice on the runway comment scares the bejeebus outa me though.
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Golfer and Cap,
Before you guys get to dueling joysticks here there is something you might want to consider. The original post you guys are arguing about didn't mention the "C" word (crosswind) just that the wind was gusting up to 25.
The ice on the runway comment scares the bejeebus outa me though.
you're too late dude. i think we've stopped dueling. i was wrong. golfer was right. but i think we agreed that landing in high crosswinds is touchy sometimes.
the icey runway would scare me away too. :D
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So.......
Flying in first class is not fun when....................
The guy next to you opens his laptop and it looks like THIS...........http://www.thecleverest.com/countdown.swf (http://www.thecleverest.com/countdown.swf)
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Oh yeah....
Hey Golfer, I didn't know you flew, also. This place is right near me. About 1/2 hour away.
http://www.buttervalley.com/ (http://www.buttervalley.com/)
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You know whats really fun? Landing in a headwind that EXCEEDS your stall speed. Nose in, full flaps, throttle back...
You guys would love some of the more exotic airports. Dillingham can actually get pretty interesting, especially considering how close the aircraft in the pattern get (Youll have up to 3 sets of gear touching down on the same runway at the exact same time). Of course, then theres this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4aRwHvyyDew (http://youtube.com/watch?v=4aRwHvyyDew)
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Oh yeah....
Hey Golfer, I didn't know you flew, also. This place is right near me. About 1/2 hour away.
http://www.buttervalley.com/ (http://www.buttervalley.com/)
Our airplane is based over at Coatesville. I've been in West Chester since May. Nifty place...might have to find my way up there to play! I didn't know anything about that place until just now thanks!
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I've landed here before and did not care for it very much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYt3FcMklpM
Just remembered these photos on my camera that I took a couple of weeks ago leaving Arequipa, Peru. Was there on business.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a202/TurkeyHunter65/dog002.jpg)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a202/TurkeyHunter65/dog004.jpg)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a202/TurkeyHunter65/dog008.jpg)
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On x-wind landings, it depends on the plane. Last weekend I flew a Maule MT-7 and let me tell you: that plane does NOT like crosswind. Full aileron left and constantly going from left to right rudder to position myself to the left side of the runway. Left wheel touchdown so that the wind wouldn't push me to the right, and full left aileron while on the ground as well.
Just my opinion, but Maules are ugly and they fly ugly.
Daniel
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You know whats really fun? Landing in a headwind that EXCEEDS your stall speed. Nose in, full flaps, throttle back...
You guys would love some of the more exotic airports. Dillingham can actually get pretty interesting, especially considering how close the aircraft in the pattern get (Youll have up to 3 sets of gear touching down on the same runway at the exact same time). Of course, then theres this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4aRwHvyyDew (http://youtube.com/watch?v=4aRwHvyyDew)
COOL video.........
are you talking 3 commercial jets touching down at once?
my understanding is that FAA mandates a minnimum of 45 seconds between commercial aircraft landing on parrallel runways, and 60 seconds landing on the same one.
they fly over my shop lining up for philly international, and i timed them out to the 45 second spacing a couple times.
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It's not a time but a spacing requirement based on the sizes (weights) of the airplanes involved.
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On x-wind landings, it depends on the plane. Last weekend I flew a Maule MT-7 and let me tell you: that plane does NOT like crosswind. Full aileron left and constantly going from left to right rudder to position myself to the left side of the runway. Left wheel touchdown so that the wind wouldn't push me to the right, and full left aileron while on the ground as well.
Just my opinion, but Maules are ugly and they fly ugly.
Daniel
we have one in CAP here in NJ........we use it for missions, and quite often for glider towing. the pilots that've flown it love it.
we have a couple gippsland GA 8's too.........and a whole bunch of 172's. i think we have 3 182's in the state. 1 is an RG, and the other 2 are both glass cockpit equipped.......
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COOL video.........
are you talking 3 commercial jets touching down at once?
my understanding is that FAA mandates a minnimum of 45 seconds between commercial aircraft landing on parrallel runways, and 60 seconds landing on the same one.
they fly over my shop lining up for philly international, and i timed them out to the 45 second spacing a couple times.
No, not commercail. Jump planes, small planes, and gliders. In fact, thats usually how it works. I get 'cleared' (Its a FOB) to land number 1. I make my approach. The King Air or usually the Cessna Caravan decides hes going to land in front of me anyway. Some glider slips in behind me. Glider lands on the displaced runway, I land on the first number, jump plane lands wherever he feels like it. All three sets of gear touch about the same time.