Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: slipknot on July 29, 2008, 10:48:40 AM
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The issue of working mothers was brought up in another thread so I wanted to expand on it here.
Since the 50s, the trend in this nation has been for women to re-enter the workforce after the start of family life. Maternity leave is standard, but provides no more than a few months of child-care by the mother. After that, more often than not, the mothers are returning to work.
Many will credit this to the social changes of the 60s, many others will credit practicality and need. I tend to agree with the latter.
But has this harmed the fabric of the American home?
Of the levels of problems faced by this nation, I don't see this as one of the inciting factors. So long as the family unit does not fall victim to the common spectres of divorce, infidelity, substance abuse or illness, I think that having both parents earning a living does not degrade family structure. Absentee parenting has long been, and will likely long remain more or less standard in most developed nations. And with modern technology and the ability to very effectively work from home, I think this factor becomes ever more minor in the grand scheme of things.
Thoughts?
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How can it not be a factor? You have children who have very little interaction with either parent, little to no guidance. Why do you think youth crimes are so rampant. Kids have no role models anymore except for older kids who grew up the same way.
My wife doesn't work, and unless there is just no way I can make the bills on my own, she won't. I like my kids having a parent at home instead of a babysitter or daycare. Plus, those things cost outrageous ammounts here in South Georgia. Im sure they are expensive everywhere. At least when I am at work, I know whats going on with my kids.
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My mother taught elementary school for 40 years. She only took jobs in the schools we attended, and only after we were old enough to be in school. Worked out well.
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Sorry Gaidin, but I grew up with both parents working--as did everybody I grew up with. We're approaching our 30s now and last I heard, not one of them has been in trouble with the law. Not one.
Childcare usually took the form of friends and family. After the age of 10, pretty much on my own after school, until around 6 or 7 pm. Some trouble, as most boys get into, but nothing beyond the standard... Same for all of my friends.
Granted, we lived in a setting where crime was rare to begin with, but the notion that children who are not watched specifically by one of the two people whose genes they carry are destined for lives of crime seems like a leap to me.
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The issue of working mothers was brought up in another thread so I wanted to expand on it here.
Since the 50s, the trend in this nation has been for women to re-enter the workforce after the start of family life. Maternity leave is standard, but provides no more than a few months of child-care by the mother. After that, more often than not, the mothers are returning to work.
Many will credit this to the social changes of the 60s, many others will credit practicality and need. I tend to agree with the latter.
But has this harmed the fabric of the American home?
Of the levels of problems faced by this nation, I don't see this as one of the inciting factors. So long as the family unit does not fall victim to the common spectres of divorce, infidelity, substance abuse or illness, I think that having both parents earning a living does not degrade family structure. Absentee parenting has long been, and will likely long remain more or less standard in most developed nations. And with modern technology and the ability to very effectively work from home, I think this factor becomes ever more minor in the grand scheme of things.
Thoughts?
My wife wanting a 'career' AND a kid destroyed the marrige; nearly destroyed the kid. Financially; we did fine.. every advantage. However, my kid was abused in a day care setting; the trauma and emotional damage nearly destroyed all our lives.
Having a child IS a 'career'. Mom's should be home... households should have the 'homeschool' option.
My opinion, such as it is.
<S!> Slipnot.
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My mother worked; I was a latch key kid from late elementary school on. I had three older siblings, but they did after school activities often. I wasn't a bad kid, but it's a wonder I didn't burn the house down when no one else was home. My siblings and I would have been better off without such a big house, a motor home and other fancy things.
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Sorry Gaidin, but I grew up with both parents working--as did everybody I grew up with. We're approaching our 30s now and last I heard, not one of them has been in trouble with the law. Not one.
Childcare usually took the form of friends and family. After the age of 10, pretty much on my own after school, until around 6 or 7 pm. Some trouble, as most boys get into, but nothing beyond the standard... Same for all of my friends.
Granted, we lived in a setting where crime was rare to begin with, but the notion that children who are not watched specifically by one of the two people whose genes they carry are destined for lives of crime seems like a leap to me.
It's not that kids of two working parents are doomed; it's that most moms do a considerably better job of raising kids than most day care settings.
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I quit working when we had our 3rd. Stayed at home for almost 10 years... went back to work about a year before TxDad retired... to make sure that the transition would be smooth from his military career to a civilian job/moving the family, etc. Worked for a few years, then went back to the home.
Without a doubt, our entire family has benefited from the time which I've spent at home... The entire pace of life is different. There's no franticness or rush to do anything... it's all planned, scheduled, orderly, etc. When I'm at home, there's family dinners at the table each day (even if it's only sandwiches... it's still together at the table). Even during summer hours, everything is pretty routine. The most important thing that we've got tons of time for is individual time with each of the kids... which for them is just tops. Don't get much better than that. :aok
The few years I was working, we tried fitting our entire family life in between the hours of 6 pm - 9 pm. It sucked for everyone. You can't go from smooth to crammed without a great deal of discomfort.
As for the bigger picture... hadn't thought about it too much.
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It's not that kids of two working parents are doomed; it's that most moms do a considerably better job of raising kids than most day care settings.
Well, like I said earlier, there is a benefit to a large circle of friends and extended family. I understand that not everyone has such a thing available to them, but it definitely worked for me. Never saw the inside of a daycare.
I will agree that mothers do a better job, however. Basic human psychology that they would have more vested interest in the well-being of a child than some meagerly-compensated stranger. This, however, is hardly enough to bring down a nation. The original presumption that latch-key kids were a linchpin to this nation's downfall seems far-fetched to me when so many other things carry equal if not more weight.
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How can it not be a factor? You have children who have very little interaction with either parent, little to no guidance. Why do you think youth crimes are so rampant. Kids have no role models anymore except for older kids who grew up the same way.
My wife doesn't work, and unless there is just no way I can make the bills on my own, she won't. I like my kids having a parent at home instead of a babysitter or daycare. Plus, those things cost outrageous ammounts here in South Georgia. Im sure they are expensive everywhere. At least when I am at work, I know whats going on with my kids.
actually, your wife does work......raising your kids correctly.
god bless you both for being as smart as you are to do that.....others shoudl follow your example.
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The original presumption that latch-key kids were a linchpin to this nation's downfall seems far-fetched to me when so many other things carry equal if not more weight.
Possibly.... A responsible father present, a stable relationship between both parents, the school enviornment.. all have impact. I remain convinced that being a Mom in our society IS a career in itself.
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The issue of working mothers was brought up in another thread so I wanted to expand on it here.
Since the 50s, the trend in this nation has been for women to re-enter the workforce after the start of family life. Maternity leave is standard, but provides no more than a few months of child-care by the mother. After that, more often than not, the mothers are returning to work.
Many will credit this to the social changes of the 60s, many others will credit practicality and need. I tend to agree with the latter.
But has this harmed the fabric of the American home?
Of the levels of problems faced by this nation, I don't see this as one of the inciting factors. So long as the family unit does not fall victim to the common spectres of divorce, infidelity, substance abuse or illness, I think that having both parents earning a living does not degrade family structure. Absentee parenting has long been, and will likely long remain more or less standard in most developed nations. And with modern technology and the ability to very effectively work from home, I think this factor becomes ever more minor in the grand scheme of things.
Thoughts?
The effect varies from home to home. But it is hardly the cause of the downfall of America's youth.
Dad can be absent occasionally but Mom she's got a full time job. And if she takes a outside job the home suffers. :salute
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how many of you lads would be willing to take up the role of stay-home-dad. Let go of 10 years of your life and careers, etc.
Yes, it's important, but somehow rarely one sees man volunteering for this post. Yet usually it is a men who argue that women should do it..
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how many of you lads would be willing to take up the role of stay-home-dad. Let go of 10 years of your life and careers, etc.
Yes, it's important, but somehow rarely one sees man volunteering for this post. Yet usually it is a men who argue that women should do it..
I would do it in a second if it was an option.
Sounds like Eskimo and I had similer childhoods lol, latch key from about 10 on and a firebug lol.
I got away with TONS more then I ever could have with a stay at home parent.
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how many of you lads would be willing to take up the role of stay-home-dad. Let go of 10 years of your life and careers, etc.
Yes, it's important, but somehow rarely one sees man volunteering for this post. Yet usually it is a men who argue that women should do it..
Women aren't meant to be slighted by that desire for them to stay home, though. Essentially, you take the place where you're going to be the most effective for good. Any time I've seen any chauvinistic tendencies regarding women who stay home to take care of the family have been from outsiders... not from within the families.
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent ~ Eleanor Roosevelt
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I remain convinced that being a Mom in our society IS a career in itself.
That I agree with completely... Sadly, many, many mothers treat it as an inconvenience rather than a 24-hour a day job. Many fathers shirk their responsibilities too.
You know, years ago I spoke with a young man (very sure of himself) who stated that males in general had no physiologically-designated function within the family unit. Their function, according to this young man, ended with the delivery of the DNA material.
I think that his statements can be immediately refuted by looking at what happens to a family unit when a stable male figure is absent.
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Why do you think youth crimes are so rampant.
I guess it depends on who you ask. According to this Department of Justice Report (http://www.ojjdp.ncjrs.org/ojstatbb/nr2006/index.html), it's not as rampant as it used to be.
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Women aren't meant to be slighted by that desire for them to stay home, though. Essentially, you take the place where you're going to be the most effective for good. Any time I've seen any chauvinistic tendencies regarding women who stay home to take care of the family have been from outsiders... not from within the families.
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent ~ Eleanor Roosevelt
Yup. One of the dumber things I see young families do is confuse what's best for them with what other people think. My daughter decided before she got married (and gained her finance's agreement) that she would be a stay-home mom when the time came. Her decision is based on experience, not outside influence. I applaud her sensibilities.... and by this time next month I'm gonna be a grandpa. Can't wait to step into that role.
;)
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Raising me and my 3 siblings was a full-time job. However, once my older brother and sister were in their teens, my Mom had free babysitters for me and my little sister. She started working out of our home and after us younger two were about 10 or 12 (and older ones off or out of college), she started her own business which she will have run for 20 years next year. Worked out well for everyone, I think.
My wife's training won't give her a work at home option. I'm hoping she can find a part time job.
Having watched my daughter for a few weeks while switching jobs, I can vouch for the NEED for daycare a few days a week. It helps them get socialized and not bored with everything around the house. Plus, it can save your sanity, too. I absolutely admire stay at home moms (and dads) b/c there is no way I could do that job full-time.
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I guess it depends on who you ask. According to this Department of Justice Report (http://www.ojjdp.ncjrs.org/ojstatbb/nr2006/index.html), it's not as rampant as it used to be.
Sandy... any possibility the 'gang' violence stats (sharply up) would be a better indicator?
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Yup. One of the dumber things I see young families do is confuse what's best for them with what other people think. My daughter decided before she got married (and gained her finance's agreement) that she would be a stay-home mom when the time came. Her decision is based on experience, not outside influence. I applaud her sensibilities.... and by this time next month I'm gonna be a grandpa. Can't wait to step into that role.
;)
Congrats on becoming a Grandpa! And :aok on the great daughter. :)
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Sandy... any possibility the 'gang' violence stats (sharply up) would be a better indicator?
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that most teenagers aren't in gangs. I could be wrong.
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how many of you lads would be willing to take up the role of stay-home-dad. Let go of 10 years of your life and careers, etc.
Yes, it's important, but somehow rarely one sees man volunteering for this post. Yet usually it is a men who argue that women should do it..
My brother-in-law is a stay at home dad; my sister's job pays well. If my wife could get a job with similar hours to mine but significantly higher pay, we'd probably swap. My neighbor raised his kids until kindergarten while his wife worked...
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Possibly.... A responsible father present, a stable relationship between both parents, the school enviornment.. all have impact. I remain convinced that being a Mom in our society IS a career in itself.
This is kind of what I meant in my post. Sorry if I did not explain it well. I grew up with a single parent. I know what I went through, and what my mom went through keeping us in food/clothing/place to live. I have always felt that if at all possible the mother should stay home with there kids. Is that always possible, no. To many deadbeat dads out there and to many women to just have alot of kids so they can get welfare. I have nothing against women working, but if they have a child at home and it is finacially possible, they should be at home with that child.
I don't pretend to be perfect, but I know where my kids are and for the most part, what they are doing. That to me is the most important thing of all.
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how many of you lads would be willing to take up the role of stay-home-dad. Let go of 10 years of your life and careers, etc.
Yes, it's important, but somehow rarely one sees man volunteering for this post. Yet usually it is a men who argue that women should do it..
I would gladly do it if my wife would make more money than me. I hardly see my kids because I am always working. I don't want to work all the time, but it keeps the bills paid. I have told my wife more than once that if she can find a job that pays her more than I make now that I will swap with her. I don't have a problem with staying at home and taking care of my kids. I know some that wouldn't even consider it though.