Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: oboe on March 29, 2001, 09:10:00 AM
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Just did some reading on these two versions of the Jug. As I understand it, they had similiar performance (487 mph!) but the M was strictly A to A, while the N had full ground attack capability. The N also had longer range due to wing tanks. The N had clipped wingtips which may give it a marginally faster roll rate.
The M appeared only in small numbers in the Euro Theater to chase down V1s, while the N was use in sizeable numbers as B-29 escorts and groundpounders in the late Pacific campaign.
So, who would want M over the N?
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So, who would want M over the N?
Me! Cause I can use a P-47-D-R25/R30 for ground work.
BTW, the P-47M for use against V1's is a wives tale. V1's were gone because all thier launch sites has been over run before the P-47M came on the scene.
-Westy
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Originally posted by Westy:
So, who would want M over the N?
Me! Cause I can use a P-47-D-R25/R30 for ground work.
BTW, the P-47M for use against V1's is a wives tale. V1's were gone because all thier launch sites has been over run before the P-47M came on the scene.
-Westy
When was the M introduced? the germans where lauching V1s at antwerp till quite a late date.
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I'm at work; I'll try to post the M intro date tonight.
I can see wanting the M just for the beautiful 56th FG camo scheme, but the N seems a lot more functional to me. I'd rather move mud with something that really skee-daddle when you're done dropping ordnance. I've been run down from behind to many times in the D.
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Oboe, the difference between M and N is mainly the range.
N at additional tanks, which made it the heaviest P47 ever build. It had those tanks to be able to escort the B29 non-stop.
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Pongo; those could have been air launches from He 111's.
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N model of course.
If you load the N up with the same fuel as the M, you get very similar performance. But then you also have the ultra long range potential of the N. Plus the N has a better rollrate, with its clipped wings.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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While the M has a very slight speed advantage, I believe the main thing it has on the N is a MUCH higher climb rate due to being lighter.
That said, I'd rather have the N. Far more significant in the war.
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My source is Stewart Wilson's Aircraft of WWII. Accoring to him, deliveries of both the M and N started in late 1944. Only 130 M's were delivered, but 1,816 Ns were delivered through December 1945. He also states the M was a pure fighter with no ground attack capability.
Looks to me like the N is the model we should be asking for as a perk.
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FWIW, I would much rather see the M model Jug in AH.......the long range of the N model would be of little use with the maps we have, but the increased climb rate of the M would help alot, getting the big bird up where she flies and fights best, hi alt. The added range the N offers can be offset already in the D models by carrying drop tanks, it's the added climb of the M I crave.
But it's all pointless until the damage model of the Jug is tweaked to closer to what the pilot accounts tell us.....the damn thing could absorb GOBS of punishment and still get ya home.
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You mean we have to pick?
I want both. <G>
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/) for AH articles and training info!
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Got em!
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I can see the M as a high-altitude interceptor, as long-range BUFF raids are really the only things I ever see in the Mains getting up near that high. She may also have value in the escort role in Special Events, which DO often get that high.
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LOL, this thread is from 2001. IB4TL :banana:
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Got em!
You have to punt every 8 year old thread now? :rolleyes:
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You have to punt every 8 year old thread now? :rolleyes:
only 2 so far.
(sigh)
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"Only 2, guise." Lawl.
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Ought to make for some fun fights vs TA-152's up high Saxman! Besides being good for
hi alt buff and jet hunting some sqauds may find it really good for escort when running
hi-alt "missuns"
Then again it's been years since I've logged and if there hasn't been a sole above 25k in
a coons age then maybe it'll just be a novelty like the TA. Well at least there could be a
parity of sorts for those who want to fly fighters at hi alts.
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Ehhh, I don't see the harm in punting this thread... It's that or start a new one and replicate the topic.
Did a little offline testing.
The P-47M has the MIL power performance of a P-47D-40 in speed and climb (better than the N), the WEP speed of the P-47N, and a 3,500fpm climb at WEP (which is far better than the 47N).
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The P-47M was the faster production version of the Thunderbolt. That speed was achieved by using the Pratt & Whitney R-2800-14W or R-2800-57 engine, with the CH-5 turbo-supercharger. At full boost this engine could provide 2,800hp, giving the P-47M a top speed of 473mph at 32,000 feet, an improvement of 50mph over the P-47D.
The P-47M entered service with the 56th Fighter Group, based at Boxted, in early 1945. By that point the 56th FG was the only fighter group in the 8th Fighter Command still using the P-47. The P-47M was not used against the V-1 flying bombs, as is often stated – that campaign was already over by the time it entered service. It is possible that the three YP-47M pre-production aircraft were shipped to England to serve in this capacity, thus explaining the later confusion.
The P-47M suffered from a series of problems. The new engine was particularly problematic – at one point every engine in use was withdrawn and replaced by new units. It also has much shorter range than the P-47D.
It did not enter active service until April 1945, too late to make a significant contribution to the war. However, the massive increase in speed did allow the P-47M to shoot down a number of Messerschmitt Me 262 jet fighters, whose pilots must have been surprised to find an apparently familiar aircraft almost keeping pace with them.
Production: 133
Engine: P&W R-2800-57 “C-series”
Horsepower: 2,800
Max Speed: 475mph at 32,000 feet
Cruising Speed: 360 mph
Range: 530 miles at 26,000 feet
Ceiling: 41,000 feet
Span: 40ft 9.25in
Length: 36ft 1.75in
:airplane:
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The charts are up:
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=83&p2=102&pw=2>ype=0)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=83&p2=102&pw=2>ype=2)
Now we can see exactly why the P-47M is a true late war monster: it overcomes the major weakness of the N-Jug, thrust:weight.
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"It did not enter active service until April 1945.."
Huh? The 56th started flying sorties with their M's on Jan 14th.
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Welcome P-47M to AH2, and thanks to Greebo for the beautiful skin!
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(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/8997/necropuntmustache.jpg)
Am i too late? :uhoh
Edit: whoops wrong picture.
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Am i too late? :uhoh
No but your a dollar short.....
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Punt? Who cares, it's relevant.
Anax, did you do any WEP testing yet to see how long the wep lasts compared to the N or D40? And also the WEP recharge rate...
It's probably the same but only one way to find out.
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No, but I would expect it to be the same as the P-47N and F4U-4: 5 min of WEP. I don't know how long it takes to recharge. The short WEP duration isn't so troubling in the 47M as it is in the N, because you MIL power speed/climb is faster.
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Just bridging the gap between old players and new.
Cuious. Anyone takes an M way up there and try it out against a TA-152 at all?
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I dusted off one of my reference books last night (I'll post title later tonight), and was surprised by two things about the P-47M.
1. It was considered light at 14,000 lbs. It was relatively light compared to the 21,000 lbs if the P-47N.
2. The M only had 6 0.50's. Can anyone else confirm this?
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Just bridging the gap between old players and new.
Cuious. Anyone takes an M way up there and try it out against a TA-152 at all?
Pretty sure it would be like a Spit16 vs Ta152 on the deck. P47M would thrash it.
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I think it is less than amusing that when ever somebody posts a topic, they get to hear comments about: "You should have used the search button" ...or "The search button is your friend". Yet if anybody replies to an old post they are accused of "punting" the topic. I think there should be less people attempting to be the BBS Policemen. Many folks need to back off and let other players discuss what they wish. If the BBS is so full of golden nuggets that people are demanded to search for ...then they should at least be allowed the Courtesy of making comments on them. It's not fair to have it both ways. If you dont like a post. Then don't read it. Certainly dont post in it.
Down with the "BBS Bullies"!!! ...enuff allready
Helm ...out
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I think it is less than amusing that when ever somebody posts a topic, they get to hear comments about: "You should have used the search button" ...or "The search button is your friend". Yet if anybody replies to an old post they are accused of "punting" the topic. I think there should be less people attempting to be the BBS Policemen. Many folks need to back off and let other players discuss what they wish. If the BBS is so full of golden nuggets that people are demanded to search for ...then they should at least be allowed the Courtesy of making comments on them. It's not fair to have it both ways. If you dont like a post. Then don't read it. Certainly dont post in it.
Down with the "BBS Bullies"!!! ...enuff allready
Helm ...out
:aok
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Some like to jump on those posts just so they can post their silly picture.
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I think it is less than amusing that when ever somebody posts a topic, they get to hear comments about: "You should have used the search button" ...or "The search button is your friend". Yet if anybody replies to an old post they are accused of "punting" the topic. I think there should be less people attempting to be the BBS Policemen. Many folks need to back off and let other players discuss what they wish. If the BBS is so full of golden nuggets that people are demanded to search for ...then they should at least be allowed the Courtesy of making comments on them. It's not fair to have it both ways. If you dont like a post. Then don't read it. Certainly dont post in it.
Down with the "BBS Bullies"!!! ...enuff allready
Helm ...out
Well said sir.