Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Choocha on July 29, 2008, 05:25:46 PM
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It just seems like there is just too much government – particularly at the State and Local Levels these days. When I was a kid the only thing the local government did was give out license plates.
In one county you can drink, the next county over you can’t. A sheriff in one county is on a personnel mission to run strip clubs out of business while they flourish in another county. I drive in my small city into a smaller city without even noticing a change. Yet, each has their own mini-governments complete with separate fire and police. Ever check on the price of a fire engine? There is no thought to economies of scale here. Nepotism is so bad it is completely out in the open. I got a ticket from the city for not cutting my grass in a timely manner…$150. They tell me how big my garage can be and will sue me if I add on. They adjust my property tax when home values rise but are very slow to adjust when they fall.
In one state you get caught with 9oz or booger sugar and you can be out in one year with good behavior. In another, 9oz get you felony intent to deliver with a mandatory TEN YEARS. How would you like to be caught at the border…on the wrong side, having to eat those ten years? One state KILLS while the other doesn’t.
It doesn’t take a three day trip via horse to get from New York to Philly anymore. Information travels at the speed of light. “States Rights” is an issue of the past. It doesn’t matter anymore. We need to destroy government everywhere it exists except a SMALL FOOTPRINT central government that keeps the hell out of my business. A central government half its current size could run this country easy.
Right now we are a schizophrenic country with wildly varying rules and laws. Government is bad but necessary at a very small level. Consolidating power and taking advantage of economies of scale would be the solution.
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I think we should reduce the federal government and increase the state. So... no. Hell no.
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I think we don't need the US. ROT, baby! :)
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I think we don't need the US. ROT, baby! :)
*smacks culero violently* NO!
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I think we should reduce the federal government and increase the state. So... no. Hell no.
Yup. And wouldn't it be nice if the federal government was suddenly fired by a joint declaration by the governors of these here 'united states'. Cripes, somebody needs to start a movement... FIRE THE FEDS!
...shaddup. i'm enjoying my trip thru fantasyland...
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Yup. And wouldn't it be nice if the federal government was suddenly fired by a joint declaration by the governors of these here 'united states'. Cripes, somebody needs to start a movement... FIRE THE FEDS!
...shaddup. i'm enjoying my trip thru fantasyland...
I'll go along with it if, AND ONLY IF, upon completion we immediately turn around and fire the State governments as well.
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All one big reason for term limits.
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Yeah, states are VERY necessary. It's the FEDERAL clowns we need to reduce by 90%.
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America was originally created where individual states held much power over policy.
If it wasnt for the civil war it would probably still be that way.
I believe the Fed is to powerful. To arrogant and to powerful.
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Yep, you got it exactly backwards.
The question is do we really need the Feds.
Nice thing about states running things is if you don't like it you still have 49 other choices.
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America was originally created where individual states held much power over policy.
If it wasnt for the civil war it would probably still be that way.
I believe the Fed is to powerful. To arrogant and to powerful.
If you're not going to say something intelligent, don't say anything at all.
The first confederacy ended LONG before people were even thinking of a civil war. It ended because it came apart at the seams.
You give a politician any control, and they'll make a monarchy out of it. They gave the 13 colonies self control, and they got 12 different monarchs. And those monarchs did everything they could to tax their own people, and to tax the other monarchs.
The solution is no government at all.
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If you're not going to say something intelligent, don't say anything at all.
The first confederacy ended LONG before people were even thinking of a civil war. It ended because it came apart at the seams.
You give a politician any control, and they'll make a monarchy out of it. They gave the 13 colonies self control, and they got 12 different monarchs. And those monarchs did everything they could to tax their own people, and to tax the other monarchs.
The solution is no government at all.
In spite of all the anti federalist anarchy-speak Im of the opinion that things have developed more or less within reason. In other words, I'm quite enjoying my own personal life, liberty and pursuit of happiness thank you very much. But indeed, there are problems, big problems that always have been in one form or another, and always will be.
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Yep, you got it exactly backwards.
The question is do we really need the Feds.
Nice thing about states running things is if you don't like it you still have 49 other choices.
Exactly.
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States need to take back more power I agree. What they should do is insist that the state legislators choose the Senators and the People vote for Congress but that State legislators (also elected by the people of THAT STATE only) vote for President. The people should then realize the real power is in the Congress and that this popularity contest for the Oval Office is a useless parade.
Gee I think that was in the original Constitution?
The two party system we have now is a farce that needs to be rectified.
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I don't know about that, I'm not at all sure having politicians choose other politicians is smart at all.
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I don't know about that, I'm not at all sure having politicians choose other politicians is smart at all.
yep. 51% of the population that bothers to vote should be able to dictate terms to the 85% of the population that doesn't.
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I don't think Texas is a state ;)
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Read the Constitution sometime and you will see you have no Constitutional right to vote for President.
If you choose the state legislators you can influence the choices they make or replace them. It removes the influence the other states have on your decisions. It was a beautiful idea that politicians have subverted to their own purposes.
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...Hmmm...If we were to disband the Federal gov't., and go to a states-individualist kind of rule, it would be more like trading one tyrant 3000 miles away, for 3000 tyrants' one mile away, wouldn't it?
As inconvenient as it seems, we are gonna have to put up with a federal or central-type of national gov't. Let me put it this way; If we were mainly individual states, we would be easy pray for terrorism right now. How many states' would have jumped to New Yorks' aid during 9/11, given that scenario? This nation only got to where it is by being united. And, you have to admit, it's been united because it has almost always had one solid government. The two parties' that dominate it are a shame, but if the people tolerate it, then...we few on this BBS must be the only ones who share this opinion.
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...Hmmm...If we were to disband the Federal gov't., and go to a states-individualist kind of rule, it would be more like trading one tyrant 3000 miles away, for 3000 tyrants' one mile away, wouldn't it?
As inconvenient as it seems, we are gonna have to put up with a federal or central-type of national gov't. Let me put it this way; If we were mainly individual states, we would be easy pray for terrorism right now. How many states' would have jumped to New Yorks' aid during 9/11, given that scenario? This nation only got to where it is by being united. And, you have to admit, it's been united because it has almost always had one solid government. The two parties' that dominate it are a shame, but if the people tolerate it, then...we few on this BBS must be the only ones who share this opinion.
Name one Alphabet Soup Federal Agency that's functioning efficiently, correctly & with full accountability..
Just ONE.
Here's the entire list. Good luck...
A
Advisory Council on Historic Preservation (ACHP)
www.achp.gov
African Development Foundation
www.adf.gov
Agency for International Development (USAID)
www.info.usaid.gov
American Battle Monuments Commission
www.abmc.gov
AMTRAK
www.amtrak.com
Appalachian Regional Commission
www.arc.gov
Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance Board
www.access-board.gov
B
Ballistic Missile Defense Organization
www.mda.mil
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms
www.atf.treas.gov
Bureau of Arms Control
www.state.gov/www/global/arms/bureauac.html
Bureau of Engraving & Printing
www.bep.treas.gov
Bureau of Labor Statistics
www.bls.gov
Bureau of the Census
www.census.gov
Bureau of Transportation Statistics
www.bts.gov
C
Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services
cms.hhs.gov
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
www.cia.gov
Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigations Board (USCSB)
www.chemsafety.gov
Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC)
www.cftc.gov
Commission on Civil Rights
www.usccr.gov
Commodity Futures Trading Commission
www.cftc.gov
Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC)
www.cpsc.gov
Corporation For National Service (CNS)
www.cns.gov
D
Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency
www.darpa.mil
Defense Information Systems Agency
www.disa.mil
Defense Intelligence Agency
www.dia.mil
Defense Logistics Agency
www.supply.dla.mil
Defense Nuclear Facilities Safety Board
www.dnfsb.gov
Defense Security Service
www.dss.mil
Defense Threat Reduction Agency
www.dtra.mil
Drug Enforcement Administration
www.usdoj.gov/dea
E
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
www.epa.gov
Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
www.eeoc.gov
Export-Import Bank of the U.S.
www.exim.gov
F
Farm Credit Administration (FCA)
www.fca.gov
Federal Accounting Standards Advisory Board
www.fasab.gov
Federal Aviation Administration
www.faa.gov
Federal Bureau of Investigation
www.fbi.gov
Federal Communications Commission (FCC)
www.fcc.gov
Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC)
www.fdic.gov
Federal Election Commission (FEC)
www.fec.gov
Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)
www.fema.gov
Federal Energy Regulatory Commission
www.ferc.fed.us
Federal Highway Administration
www.fhwa.dot.gov
Federal Housing Finance Board (FHFB)
www.fhfb.gov
Federal Labor Relations Authority
www.flra.gov
Federal Maritime Commission
www.fmc.gov
Federal Mediation & Conciliation Service
www.fmcs.gov
Federal Mine Safety & Health Review Commission
www.fmshrc.gov
Federal Railroad Administration
www.fra.dot.gov
Federal Reserve System
www.federalreserve.gov
Federal Retirement Thrift Investment Board
www.frtib.gov
Federal Trade Commission (FTC)
www.ftc.gov
Food & Drug Administration
www.fda.gov
G
General Accounting Office
www.gao.gov
General Services Administration (GSA)
www.gsa.gov
Ginnie Mae
www.ginniemae.gov
I
Institute of Museum and Library Services
www.imls.gov
Inter-American Development Bank
www.iadb.org
Inter-American Foundation
www.iaf.gov
Internal Revenue Services
www.irs.ustreas.gov
International Bank for Reconstruction & Development
www.worldbank.org
International Labor Organization
www.us.ilo.org
International Monetary Fund
www.imf.org
International Trade Commission (USITC)
www.usitc.gov
L
Legal Services Corporation
www.lsc.gov
M
Medicare Payment Advisory Commission
www.medpac.gov
Merit Systems Protection Board
www.mspb.gov
N
National Aeronautics and Space Administration(NASA)
www.nasa.gov
National Archives and Records Administration (NARA)
www.nara.gov
National Bioethics Advisory Commission
www.bioethics.gov
National Capital Planning Commission
www.ncpc.gov
National Commission on Libraries and Information Science (NCLIS)
www.nclis.gov
National Council on Disability (NCD)
www.ncd.gov
National Credit Union Administration
www.ncua.gov
National Endowment for the Arts
http://arts.endow.gov
National Endowment for the Humanities
www.neh.gov
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
www.nhtsa.dot.gov
National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
www.nga.mil
National Institute of Justice
www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij
National Institute of Mental Health
www.nimh.nih.gov
National Institute of Standards & Technology
www.nist.gov
National Institutes of Health
www.nih.gov
National Labor Relations Board
www.nlrb.gov
National Mediation Board
www.nmb.gov
National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration
www.noaa.gov
National Park Service
www.nps.gov
National Science Foundation (NSF)
www.nsf.gov
National Security Agency (NSA)
www.nsa.gov
National Skill Standards Board
National Technology Transfer Center (NTTC)
www.nttc.edu
National Telecommunications Information Administration
www.ntia.doc.gov
National Transportation Safety Board
www.ntsb.gov
Neighborhood Reinvestment Corporation
www.nw.org
Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC)
www.nrc.gov
O
Occupational Safety and Health Review Commission
www.oshrc.gov
Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight
www.ofheo.gov
Office of Government Ethics
www.usoge.gov
Office of Personnel Management (OPM)
www.opm.gov
Office of Special Counsel
www.osc.gov
Office of Thrift Supervision
www.ots.treas.gov
Organization for Economic Cooperation & Development
www.oecdwash.org
Organization of American States
www.oas.org
Overseas Private Investment Corp.
www.opic.gov
P
Pan American Health Organization
www.paho.org
Patent & Trademark Office
www.uspto.gov
Peace Corps
www.peacecorps.gov
Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC)
www.pbgc.gov
Postal Regulatory Commission
www.prc.gov
R
Railroad Retirement Board (RRB)
www.rrb.gov
S
Securities Exchange Commission (SEC)
www.sec.gov
Securities Investor Protection Corp.
www.sipc.org
Selective Service System (SSS)
www.sss.gov
Small Business Administration (SBA)
www.sba.gov
Smithsonian Institution
www.si.edu
Social Security Administration (SSA)
www.ssa.gov
Substance Abuse & Mental Health Services Administration
www.samhsa.gov
Surface Transportation Board
www.stb.dot.gov
T
Tennessee Valley Authority
www.tva.gov
Trade and Development Agency
www.tda.gov
U
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis
U.S. Customs Service
www.customs.gov
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
www.fws.gov
U.S. Forest Service
www.fs.fed.us
U.S. Government Printing Office
www.gpo.gov
U.S. Institute of Peace
www.usip.org
U.S. Marshals Service
www.usdoj.gov/marshals/
U.S. Office of Government Ethics (USOGE)
www.usoge.gov
U.S. Treasury
www.treas.gov
United States Holocaust Memorial Council
www.ushmm.org
United States Postal Service (USPS)
www.usps.gov
United Nations Information Center
www.unicwash.org
V
Voice of America (VOA)
www.voa.gov
W
Walter Reed Army Medical Center
www.wramc.amedd.army.mil
White House Fellows
www.whitehousefellows.gov
White House Commission on Remembrance
www.remember.gov
Women's History Commission
www.gsa.gov/staff/pa/whc.htm
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NO private corporation would tolerate the performance of any department equal to the best of these.. they'd be fired out of hand. Toss the Feds. Buncha damn bananas....
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No there are a lot more people that share this view; most of them call themselves Conservatives but not Republicans because the Republican party is half filled with Democrats that call themselves Republicans to get elected. Take a close look at McCain or Crist for example. They both follow the party line of the opposition. Most people in the country are too stupid to keep track of the way things really are.
Democrats have been striving for a true Democracy (not the Republic the framers intended) since the nation was created. The name of the party itself has changed but not the agenda. They wont be satisfied until the U.S. economy supports the entire world (not far from that now) and anyone in the world can vote in our elections.
The current process we have of two parties and a national vote for President is a bastardization of the original intent of the Constitution. I believe its intent is to remove more power from the people by robbing the States of the intended electoral process and all the power it represented. Everytime another generation comes along they pass more power to Government and vote power away from themselves.
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I got a ticket from the city for not cutting my grass in a timely manner…$150.
:O
They wont be satisfied until the U.S. economy supports the entire world (not far from that now) and anyone in the world can vote in our elections.
:rofl
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I think we don't need the US. ROT, baby! :)
Let the games begin!!!!!!!!
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh194/fastblastus/ROT.jpg)
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I think at some point in the future, maybe not the near term future, but probably not too far off, much of the concept of a 'state' will fade away. The powers that they currently wield will fall to corporations. The concept of citizenship might still exist, but it won't be a primary identifier for most people.
I think that most people will even be all for it.
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See Rules #4, #5
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someone has been watching rollerball and soylent green
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someone has been watching rollerball and soylent green
:rofl
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Rich - what he wrote did make sense..
The US was first a confederation under the Articles of Confederation, IIRC. It didn't work out very well.
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The nation was founded by men who resisted a government that may have treated people better than what you get today from Washington DC, your state capital or even your local city council. The tax that sparked the revolution was a whopping 1% or so.
Imagine that Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and Benjamin Franklin were being magically transported to present day, and you have been selected to be their tour guide, answering all their questions. Lucky you.
You start by meeting them at JFK airport in New York to check in for your flight to Washington DC. Would they endure the humiliation of the security line? What would they say as they surveyed Washington, Congress, the media and their tax obligations? What would they say about the presidential candidates?
Would you be embarrassed? :D
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The nation was founded by men who resisted a government that may have treated people better than what you get today from Washington DC, your state capital or even your local city council. The tax that sparked the revolution was a whopping 1% or so.
Imagine that Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and Benjamin Franklin were being magically transported to present day, and you have been selected to be their tour guide, answering all their questions. Lucky you.
You start by meeting them at JFK airport in New York to check in for your flight to Washington DC. Would they endure the humiliation of the security line? What would they say as they surveyed Washington, Congress, the media and their tax obligations? What would they say about the presidential candidates?
Would you be embarrassed? :D
Here's the thing. Even if you were to assume perfect implementation of the Constitution and US Government post revolution, we'd be worse off than what we had with a King in england.
Because of this, logic then shows that this country wasn't founded for our freedom, but their power.
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Here's the thing. Even if you were to assume perfect implementation of the Constitution and US Government post revolution, we'd be worse off than what we had with a King in england.
Because of this, logic then shows that this country wasn't founded for our freedom, but their power.
You obviously have not read the Constitution or you have read it and got lost after the first sentence or simply didnt care to take in the essence of this perfect document. The whole purpose of the Constitution was to maintain controls and balances upon those given the power to govern and to hold the majority of powers within the governed. The people have slowly allowed the Government to take power from the people and it has been done in such a way as to allow the people to think they still have those powers. The size of Government is in direct relation to its power I mean look at the list Hangtime posted. Ninety percent of those offices should not even exist (I would say ninety-eight percent because I think all we need is the Executive Legislative and Judicial Branches) and those that do should be State run not federal posts.
The Constitution is not about freedoms. The Bill of Rights came about because in the ratification process the two parties of the time (Federalist and anti-Federalist) were concerned that the Government the Constitution created would be too powerful and the States would lose control. Ever since that time the Government has been looked upon with suspicion (warranted) and yet the people continue to allow their power to be transferred to politicians. The Bill of Rights was never intended to list all freedoms but did list the ones the people were concerned about the government trampling (of course in those times half of todays concerns would not have even been dreamt of).
Today we are in a world of hurt because the politicians control the process by which our freedoms are protected or denied. I really think since they have a list they want to deny us any other rights and then re-interpret the rights they see on the list. It really is past time for another Revolution.
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The solution is no government at all.
Aren't you throwing out the baby with the bathwater here? Can you explain how that would be anywhere near feasible?
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I live in the county.
The biggest city near me is very corrupt. The cops give out bogus tickets then lie about it in court with a shady prosecuter. Cops pull over pretty females for no reason then will escuse the "non-offense" for sexual favors. It's been bad here for over a century...so I live out in the county.
Arkansas is VERY odd about city/county laws. Many dry counties here, but people just go to the next wet county & buy booze anyway. There is "no gambling", yet we have a grandfathered in dog and horse track that both have tons of machines that you can't tell the difference from slot machines. No lottery here either--people just drive across the border to the next state and that state gets all the profits while our schools are 49th in the nation.
We have some cutting edge wind energy companies---and at the same time some ranches are using the same technologies as a century ago.
ROX
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someone has been watching rollerball and soylent green
JOHNOTHAN!!! JOHNOTHAN!!! JOHNOTHAN!!! JOHNOTHAN!!!
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Would you be embarrassed?
I would be. :(
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Rich - what he wrote did make sense..
The US was first a confederation under the Articles of Confederation, IIRC. It didn't work out very well.
No it made no sense cause I was talking about the power fo the Federal Govt. before and after the civil war. Besides hes a rude idiot and Im tired of the guy.
Any 5'th grader with a decent education knows the Civil War changed the power equation between the States and Federal Governement. In reality we have two Americas. The one before the civil war and the one after.
First off almost 1/2 of America was occupied by a Federal army under martial Law. Actually much of the confederacy was already under martial Law as the Union army occupied territory under force of arms. The use of Martial law was not all emcompassing and was used by the federal Govt. to impose its will outside the control of the civilian courts. Imagine that? A US President imposing martial law in states both north and south of the line in order to circumvent the civlian Govts. Yes ML had been used before but never like that, and never since.
And it was in many other ways the Federal govt increased its power over states after the war. It greatly expanded its power of criminal law and criminal penaltys. It completly re-wrote civil rights legislation and placed itself as the main enforcement arm. It increased its power over the mail system and interstate commerce, including the rail system. Think about that sentence? If I remember right I think that was called the Sherman act.
Regarding tarrifs and taxes this is where the Federal Govt. really won out after the war. And many people dont know but the subject of taxes and revenues was a major reason FOR the war, "slavery"? "Oh please"! The war itself almost started 13 years earlier when the Fed tried to increase taxes on southern plantation owners and was only averted after the north blinked "Andrew Jackson" remember?
I could go on and on but the fact is that only a totally unschooled fool could possibly think the civil war did not vastly increase the powers of the Federal Govt vis-a-vis State Govt's. Why should I go to such trouble to repeat what is such a obvious historical fact?
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See Rules #4, #5
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If sure don't want Indiana being run like California or specifically San Francisco.
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See Rules #4, #5
You dont even know what Im talking about do you? You have no clue!
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Freedom is about choice. More is better.
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See Rules #4, #5