Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Getback on August 07, 2008, 05:57:15 AM
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Okay, hope I don't duplicate 10 threads.
But Obama, being the genius he is, has come up with a way to save gas and reduce drilling. Why he says make sure your tires are inflated correctly. Pure genius I tell you. :rofl :rofl :rofl
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The cat is the next thing to Einstein .
:aok
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Ain't it though. You know that the RNC is giving tire pressure gauges away that say "Obama's Energy Plan" away for a $25 donation. Need to send mine in. That will be a collectors item.
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I was part of the test crew(man it sucked) which measured the tire pressures of thousands of motorists and checked them against recommendations. The results were appalling. If everybody would have correctly inflated tires the total save could be up to 5%. In the EU onboard monitoring system will become mandatory in 2012.
Just some background information. Dunno what omamabama said and couldn't care less.
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Sen. Obama said this: "There are things that you can do individually though to save energy. Making sure your tires are properly inflated, simple thing, but we could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling, if everybody was just inflating their tires and getting regular tune-ups. You could actually save just as much."
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Off-shore drilling in the lower 48 states will yield approximately 200,000 barrels of oil per day... 20 years from now.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html (http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html)
27% of American cars would improve mileage by 3% by properly inflating tires, reducing oil consumption approximately 800,000 barrels per day immediately. That doesn't include the 4% improvement from tune ups.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/maintain.shtml (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/maintain.shtml)
There's never an Einstein around when you need one to do the math. Maybe Paris Hilton will be along to explain it. ;)
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Woohoo..... funnay stuff right there..
LOL.. next thing you know he'll be talking about "time horizons" for pulling the troops out of Iraq. Comedy gold I tell ya!
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Sen. Obama said this: "There are things that you can do individually though to save energy. Making sure your tires are properly inflated, simple thing, but we could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling, if everybody was just inflating their tires and getting regular tune-ups. You could actually save just as much."
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Off-shore drilling in the lower 48 states will yield approximately 200,000 barrels of oil per day... 20 years from now.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html (http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html)
27% of American cars would improve mileage by 3% by properly inflating tires, reducing oil consumption approximately 800,000 barrels per day immediately. That doesn't include the 4% improvement from tune ups.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/maintain.shtml (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/maintain.shtml)
There's never an Einstein around when you need one to do the math. Maybe Paris Hilton will be along to explain it. ;)
it's already common knowledge to inflate tires properly.
just for the record, my dakota calls for 32 i think on the door.....max pressure is listed at 40 or 45 i think. i put mine at 40, and am averaging 2mpg more than when they're set at 35. it mostly doesn't get done due to laziness, or the shops not checking it as they should during an oil change service.
i somehow suspect that drilling would yield a bit more than 200k barrels. they should also consider re-starting the pumps on old wells too.
there's really no such thing as a "tune up" anymore. there's nothign to adjust at all. there's only spark plugs, and air filters, and in some cases a fuel filter although dodge at least went to in-tank filters.
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Okay, hope I don't duplicate 10 threads.
But Obama, being the genius he is, has come up with a way to save gas and reduce drilling. Why he says make sure your tires are inflated correctly. Pure genius I tell you. :rofl :rofl :rofl
I wonder if he'll do like Jimmy Carter and urge everyone to buy a sweater.
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Hmmmmm... .how to expand the Federal nanny state power even more? That is the question.
Clearly, it would be a benefit if all the dumbaxes would properly inflate their tires. Undeniable.
Now, here's the plan: Oil dependence is a national security issue. So, we make a new, huge sub-department under the Department of Homeland Security, the Tire Inflation Agency. Initials are, obviously, TIA which in Spanish means "aunt".
We then hire a few hundred thousand welfare moms (known as Tias or Aunties) at a good government wage, arm them with digital tire pressure gauges and send them out to randomly check parked cars where ever they are parked. City streets, chuch parking lots, malls, movie theaters, etc., etc. When ever a vehicle is found with under inflated tires, a ticket/fine is issued, just like a parking ticket. Scale the fines, the more underinflated you are, the more you pay.
This is win/win/win. We get hundreds of thousands of people off welfare at a good government wage with good government benefits. We save a bajillion gallons of fuel by having our tires properly inflated AND as a bonus, the fines go to pay the wages of the Aunties.
It'll be a good thing to have our Aunties monitoring our tire pressure.
The quadruple bonus is a larger Federal government with more intrusion into your daily life. Who could fail to love this plan?
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this is a national emergency, we need to set up tire pressure check points and fine everyone with under inflated tires.
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With global consumption of about 75 million barrels per day, even a million barrels per day coming on line years from now is a drop in the bucket and will have minimal effect on oil prices.
Here is another question: why do people think that all the oil pumped will stay in the US? Now, you may be scratching your head, thinking I'm goofy, but who exactly will own that oil? The leases will be to the same multinational companies who control it now.
Exxon Mobile has no allegiance to the US. They have an allegiance to themselves, their stockholders and their brethren in the industry. That oil will be part of the global supply and not earmarked just for US consumption. Once again, the impact at the pump for everyone will be minimal.
The oil companies will be the winners, as they always are. And the government will rake in tens of billions from the leases, but the public will not benefit one iota from it. The taxpayers never do. The cycle never ends of you being hoodwinked into transferring the riches of public resources to the pockets of large companies by congressional edict.
Politicians and the media are nothing but trolls, drawing you into their web of lies. You grasp at these petty issues and divisiveness and do the bidding of politicians as fanboys, falling into one camp or the other, oblivious to fact that neither of the two people propped up before you are worth a damn.
Have any of you ever had a gas station tell you that they are out of gas? There just isn't enough and you'll have to line up for some tomorrow or the next day? I don't think so. There is no gasoline shortage or oil shortage. The demand is met every day. It's amazing that they have gotten you to quibble about something you can buy as much as you want. You pay more for a gallon of water at the convenient store or a coffee at Starbucks than you do for a gallon of gas, but are being manipulated like trained monkeys to screech about gasoline.
Most of the rest of the world pays much more than you do for gas. I was paying about $4 per gallon for the last 10 years and paying about $7 per gallon now. Shut up already about gas prices.
If $4 per gallon is making you go broke, you have bigger fish to fry. About 50 million people in the US still have no health insurance. What is up with that? The true national debt, including unfunded Social Security and Medicare obligation is now $330,000 per person. You have a family of four? You are $1.3 million in debt if you want to get Social Security and Medicare when you retire.
And you're complaining about $4 per gallon gas? :)
Vote all the bastards out and start again. Your problem is not gas prices, your problem is a government spending money that you haven't even earned yet, but they intend to confiscate from you.
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toad, that scared me.
hold me?
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Here you go, I'll interpret what Obama said, for those of you that have a hard time figuring it out.
Obama: Drilling for oil will only be a drop in the bucket, we need to develop new ways of dealing with the energy crisis.
Drama queen much?
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Vote all the bastards out and start again. Your problem is not gas prices, your problem is a government spending money that you haven't even earned yet, but they intend to confiscate from you.
The cold hard truth. Vote Libertarian; tell them you're mad as hell and you're not going to take it anymore!
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Hmmmmm... .how to expand the Federal nanny state power even more? That is the question.
Damn Toad... I'm glad you don't work for them....
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So it has been shown that properly inflating tires would without a doubt save at least a major percentage of what we would get from drilling, but some idiots continue to hoot and guffaw at the suggestion. Has the IQ dropped in this room in the past few months? I think it has.
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Rolex.. yes I have had a gas station tell me there was no gas and I have had em tell me I had to get in line and I have been told to come back the next day.. I did it for months.. in the 70's
I question the 3% math on tire inflation. I would bet that most people now have their tires inflated. Oh wait... you said GLOBALY if you take the U.S. it is nothing like 800,000 even at 3%.. I forgot that osamabama is a world leader not just our new god.
I would also question the 200,000 gallons from offshore drilling.. no one knows how much we will discover but even so.. it is estimated that with ANWAR we will bring in 1.5 to who knows how many millions of gallons... and.. if you use the same math... if every country drilled offshore... I mean.. fair is fair...
Then the stupid remark about tires is even sillier.
But.. all that aside.. why not do both or.. all 100 at once? why is he so insistent on not letting us get the oil that is available to us and is ours? this seems odd in light of him recently saying that we should release the reserves.. a true drop in the bucket and useless fix.
Nope.. the true idiocy of his remark was taking drilling and exploring off the table and substituting a world tire inflation scheme instead.
Yes.. we should inflate our tires and check our aircleaner and tune our cars up.. heard all this crap in the 70's.. I am waiting for the 55 mph scam.. but... that does not mean that we stop exploring for new oil and pumping it.
lazs
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Yes.. we should inflate our tires and check our aircleaner and tune our cars up.. heard all this crap in the 70's.. I am waiting for the 55 mph scam.. but... that does not mean that we stop exploring for new oil and pumping it.
lazs
Also the cold hard truth.
I draw the line at 55 mph. That would truly be cause to begin the 2nd American Revolution. I lived through it from start to finish last time but I vowed "never again".
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MT.. nope.. not unless you use the rolex math...
If osamabama was talking about the entire world then he would be closer. but he was not.. he was speaking to us.. about our problem... that being the case he was being really really silly.
but.. as I said.. anything that saves oil is a good idea.. but so is drilling. People are not fooled.. they know more supply is good.
lazs
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toad.. what MAY... not certain.. save us from a democrat bill for a 55 mph speed limit is that most cars are optimized to get better mileage at 70 than at 55 these days.
lazs
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Stop with the "Rolex math", lazs. The numbers are right. Neither of these two yahoos running are my horse, I despise them equally. Yes, I was around for the even odd license plate nonsense, too. However, there is no getting around the fact that less consumption = less cost to the consumer and what else can a consumer do as an individual?
But, let's not get distracted by all this oil nonsense and keep our eyes on the ball. The best economic stimulus is for the governing class to get their hands out of your pockets. All of the productivity gains that Americans have contributed to the economy have gone unrewarded. Companies and the government have taken it all, while workers are falling further behind in wages. Gasoline is not out of line when considering total inflation, is it? Wages and net pay have failed to keep up.
The only people who have kept up with inflation have been government workers, the modern American royalty. Other than drive less, here's another idea: elect someone who will reduce government spending and give the entire country a raise. Never forget that a 1% tax sparked a revolution.
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Lazs, as much as I would like to get on board with that, I doubt there is a pickup truck on the road that gets better gas mileage at 70 than at 55. Anytime you try to move a brick through the wind, the power required to do so goes up, in a not so linear fashion.
That is probably true for most SUV's as well.
Here is what I would like to see. I know it is not going to happen, but I think it might be a way to go. We want to encourage people to get better gas mileage. So why not plant an RFID tag in every automobile in this country which can broadcast the current gas mileage of the vehicle to the gas pump, which then assigns a tax on the fuel based on the gas mileage. The better the gas mileage, the lower the tax.
Of course it would have to exempt farmers, 18 wheelers, and/or a chunk of the commercial industry.
If the vehicle does not have an RFID tag, then the consumer pays the highest tax which would be assessed.
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the math I was talking about was the amount of oil we as Americans would save if every slacker who runs around on flat tires pumps em up with political hot air.
It would be tiny compared to the couple million gallons from ANWAR and offshore.. not to mention the savings on speculation.
Now.. If we use your figure for the entire world of 800k saved by hot air then we would have to use the entire production of oil by offshore drilling that is done now by every country in the world and will be done by every country in the world... again.. the hot air in the tires.. or is that tyres now? will not amount to anything.
I am just asking you to compare apples to apples in your math.
It is simply a good idea to increase supply and decrease demand.. we can do both.. to take on of the options off the table is just stupid.
lazs
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bones.. not everyone drives an suv or pickup.. you will notice tho that all the rear end gears are now much higher (lower numerically) than they were in the 70's
lazs
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The 800,000 barrels is for the US, not the world. The numbers are right, lazs.
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bones.. not everyone drives an suv or pickup.. you will notice tho that all the rear end gears are now much higher (lower numerically) than they were in the 70's
lazs
Sure the engine is turning a lower RPM, but the amount of power required to overcome the weight and wind force is still the same. The engines today are more efficient and that has helped quite a bit, but I doubt you will find a truck that gets better gas mileage at 70 than at 55. Unfortunately, trucks were the number one selling vehicle in the USA for many years. There are a very large number of them on the road.
Cars are another story. Better aerodynamics have lead to improved gas mileage and better engine management and design have helped as well. I would be willing to say most new cars today get the same gas mileage at 70 as well as at 55.
I amended my original post, by the way.
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So it has been shown that properly inflating tires would without a doubt save at least a major percentage of what we would get from drilling, but some idiots continue to hoot and guffaw at the suggestion. Has the IQ dropped in this room in the past few months? I think it has.
You know what ? Oil is not the only resource being affected - Metal is as well.
For the sake of the argument, think in terms of METAL and not OIL.
Take copper - the price of copper has QUADRUPLED since 2004 (just like Oil has). Ask any crackhead: they're stealing copper like it's going out of style.
The root cause of metal prices rising is NOT the evil Steelworking Companies here in the USA. The culprit for rising metal prices is INCREASED GLOBAL DEMAND (esp CHINA and INDIA).
China/India are being industrialized, and their demand for raw materials (including OIL) has boosted prices worldwide.
Now think about this - again - in terms of metal: Are we being "screwed" by the Evil Steelworking Companies ? Of course not. Would it make sense to impose a Windfall Tax on the Steelworking Companies and give a $1000 rebate to low income Americans to somehow "fix" the problem ?
Of course not - Obama is simply fabricating a boogieman, going after him, and bribing the most uneducated & vulnerable of our society for their votes. He's an exploiter, a liar and a con man.
So what should we be doing ? Mining for More Copper. Drilling for More Oil. Increase Supply. Even if we don't we don't reap the benefits for 10 years, we MUST do it - otherwise we'll be looking at $1500 barrels of oil 10 years from now. If it takes 10 years to see a difference, ALL THE MORE REASON to start RIGHT AWAY.
Obama's plan for long term relief is science fiction - we won't be flying around in Jetson's style saucers.
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http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0807/p09s01-coop.html
In the first quarter of 2008, Big Oil had a profit margin of 7.4 percent. Over that same period, the pharmaceutical and medicine industry earned a 25.9 percent profit, the chemical industry earned 15.7 percent and the electronic equipment industry earned 12.1 percent.
What about those movie theater refreshments? Four large popcorns and four large sodas cost $31.50. The total raw ingredient cost is approximately $7.56. That equals a 76 percent gross margin. Where is the political outrage over that figure?
Damn the popcorn speculators! Oh.. wait....
I am very tired of the government mindset that assumes the only way to deal with anything is to tax it or make it illegal.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!
Vote Libertarian! Live as you were intended to live!
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You know what ? Oil is not the only resource being affected - Metal is as well.
For the sake of the argument, think in terms of METAL and not OIL.
Take copper - the price of copper has QUADRUPLED since 2004 (just like Oil has). Ask any crackhead: they're stealing copper like it's going out of style.
The root cause of metal prices rising is NOT the evil Steelworking Companies here in the USA. The culprit for rising metal prices is INCREASED GLOBAL DEMAND (esp CHINA and INDIA).
China/India are being industrialized, and their demand for raw materials (including OIL) has boosted prices worldwide.
Now think about this - again - in terms of metal: Are we being "screwed" by the Evil Steelworking Companies ? Of course not. Would it make sense to impose a Windfall Tax on the Steelworking Companies and give a $1000 rebate to low income Americans to somehow "fix" the problem ?
Of course not - Obama is simply fabricating a boogieman, going after him, and bribing the most uneducated & vulnerable of our society for their votes. He's an exploiter, a liar and a con man.
So what should we be doing ? Mining for More Copper. Drilling for More Oil. Increase Supply. Even if we don't we don't reap the benefits for 10 years, we MUST do it - otherwise we'll be looking at $1500 barrels of oil 10 years from now. If it takes 10 years to see a difference, ALL THE MORE REASON to start RIGHT AWAY.
Obama's plan for long term relief is science fiction - we won't be flying around in Jetson's style saucers.
I guess it has dropped.
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toad.. what MAY... not certain.. save us from a democrat bill for a 55 mph speed limit is that most cars are optimized to get better mileage at 70 than at 55 these days.
lazs
you're exactly right on this one.
it's all in the cam timing, the fuel curve and timing curves as controlled by the engine control computers on most cars.
even if ya just look at it only on the mechanical side(since so many like to eliminate all other interconnected sstems in our conversations), each and every internal combustion engine has a "sweet spot". racers have known this for years.
if you find it, you can optimize your mileage that way.
my dakota at 55mph only gets 15.6 on the highway. at 75mph, she's getting 19 to 21. at 80 mph, she drops back to 15 to 16.
at 75mph, she's running about 2600rpm, 2400 at 55 and 2700 to 2800 at 80.
i'm working on recording these specs for my geo now. it's just really really hard to only drive at 55mph for long enough to get accurate readings.
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. Other than drive less, here's another idea: elect someone who will reduce government spending and give the entire country a raise. Never forget that a 1% tax sparked a revolution.
how are we supposed to elect someone that will reduce spending when A) we don't have such a person to choose from, and B) (IMO anyway) our elections anymore are nothing more than a sham?
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Lazs, as much as I would like to get on board with that, I doubt there is a pickup truck on the road that gets better gas mileage at 70 than at 55. Anytime you try to move a brick through the wind, the power required to do so goes up, in a not so linear fashion.
my dakota. 19-21 at 75. 15-16 at 55
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bones.. not everyone drives an suv or pickup.. you will notice tho that all the rear end gears are now much higher (lower numerically) than they were in the 70's
lazs
most rears in the 70's were in the 2.50 to 2.90 range. most today are 3.23 and up. some v-8's are still around 2.78 though.
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Then I stand corrected. I guess my thought process leans more towards more efficient engine designs that make full use of adjustable cam timing profiles.
So if you dropped a gear at 55, you would get better gas mileage?
Understand, I am not an advocate for the 55MPH speed limit.
I still think taxing the poor gas mileage driver is a better way to go to coerce people to try and get better gas mileage. While I am not big on government mandated anything, if you provide a monetary incentive to do what you can to get better fuel mileage, I think it would work.
EDIT: CAP1, if I recall, todays lower geared cars have a final drive ratio that is either the same or maybe slightly lower than the cars in the 70's and 80's due to the transmission ratios used today.
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Then I stand corrected. I guess my thought process leans more towards more efficient engine designs that make full use of adjustable cam timing profiles.
So if you dropped a gear at 55, you would get better gas mileage?
Understand, I am not an advocate for the 55MPH speed limit.
I still think taxing the poor gas mileage driver is a better way to go to coerce people to try and get better gas mileage. While I am not big on government mandated anything, if you provide a monetary incentive to do what you can to get better fuel mileage, I think it would work.
EDIT: CAP1, if I recall, todays lower geared cars have a final drive ratio that is either the same or maybe slightly lower than the cars in the 70's and 80's due to the transmission ratios used today.
with the overdrive transmissions, you are right. that's why the rest of the systems are so important.....cam timing, fuel and spark curves, etc.
quite a few of todays computers monitor and individually adjust spark timing in each cylinder.
variable valve timing helps a lot too.....but all engines still have that "sweet spot" the key is to find it. it is much easier on some than others......
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Then I stand corrected. I guess my thought process leans more towards more efficient engine designs that make full use of adjustable cam timing profiles.
So if you dropped a gear at 55, you would get better gas mileage?
Understand, I am not an advocate for the 55MPH speed limit.
I still think taxing the poor gas mileage driver is a better way to go to coerce people to try and get better gas mileage. While I am not big on government mandated anything, if you provide a monetary incentive to do what you can to get better fuel mileage, I think it would work.
EDIT: CAP1, if I recall, todays lower geared cars have a final drive ratio that is either the same or maybe slightly lower than the cars in the 70's and 80's due to the transmission ratios used today.
You can't tax your way into morality.
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I still think taxing the poor gas mileage driver is a better way to go to coerce people to try and get better gas mileage. While I am not big on government mandated anything, if you provide a monetary incentive to do what you can to get better fuel mileage, I think it would work.
Idoicy, going to tax people on what car they can afford.
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What I don't understand is, why are most all of the people who support Obama, and Obama himself so ignorant to the fact that this country needs to be self-reliant on energy? Why do we keep speculating on how much oil constitutes a drop in some bucket on the Global oil industry? Who cares. It's our oil. We should drill it, refine it and put it in trucks who will deliver it to our stations. Screw the Global market. Let them have the oil in the Middle East and abroad. Let them fight the meat heads in charge of Iran, Venezuela and the like. We don't have be a part of it.
The bottom line for Americans (Elitist top 1% excluded) when it comes to gas prices is that everyone, Republican or Democrat, wants the price to come back down to an affordable rate. Becoming self sufficient on oil is the cheapest, quickest and easiest path to follow.
Where's the candidate who will say that?
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I still think taxing the poor gas mileage driver is a better way to go to coerce people to try and get better gas mileage.
That is EXACTLY the system you have today.
Those driving poor gas mileage vehicles use more gas. Gas is taxed by both the Feds and the States. Use more gas, pay more tax.
Then there is the cost of gasoline itself. If you Choose to drive an 12 mpg truck or SUV, you are "taxed" twice as much as the guy driving a 24 mpg sedan. Say $4 a gallon and 144 mile trip. 12mpg pays $48 and 24mpg pays $24.
You just want to make it a punitive sliding scale. In short, like so many others, you want to tell other people how to live.
If some guy is willing to pay the bucks to drive his 12 mpg truck, who are you to try to force him into an econobox?
What's fair is drive what you like and can afford.
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Interesting perspectives.
Yes, it is punitive. How many times a day do I get passed by some driver who insists on driving with both feet flat on the floor between stop llights only to arrive at the same destination at the same time as I do. I am paying for his irresponsibility. So are you.
How about the high school kid who is driving a monster 4x4 with a 454 engine in it who grannies along at 10 MPH getting .5 miles to the gallon?
And everyone is ok with that?
Sometimes a solution to a problem is not a happy pill to swallow. If you think everyone should be allowed to drive in an irresponsible manner, then I concede. I am more than happy to swallow the responsibility for my driving style at the pump. If I drive stupid, I should pay more for the privilege. If I drive smart I would like to see an 'atta boy' at the pump.
We are talking about a privilege, not a right.
I look at it like this. Anything we can do to reduce the gasoline consumption in our country is a win for everyone. If you think that demand can be met forever based on what is in the ground, then I am pissing in the wind and will keep my trap shut and move along.
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Well, hell then.. let's just ban any internal combustion machines from public roads. Bicycles, foot power and horse drawn would still be allowed.
That way the price of gas will REALLY drop.
As I said, you're just another guy trying to tell other people how to live.
Once you get everyone in America driving a Honda Civic, you can start on China, India and all the rest. After all, you're paying for their irresponsibility too.
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I am more than happy to swallow the responsibility for my driving style at the pump. If I drive stupid, I should pay more for the privilege. If I drive smart I would like to see an 'atta boy' at the pump.
Again, that is EXACTLY the system we have in place now. The people that drive "irresponsibly" and "waste" gasoline or that drive a 12 mpg vehicle pay more for the privilege.
Wise folks like you, that sqeeze every inch out of a gallon of gas pay less. There's your "attaboy".
But... you're not happy with that. It just bugs you to see other people not behaving as "smart" as you do. Bad persons! Bad persons! Must.... Punish....Bad..... Persons.... MORE!
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meh....others beat me to it and said it better than I did. :D
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Again, that is EXACTLY the system we have in place now. The people that drive "irresponsibly" and "waste" gasoline or that drive a 12 mpg vehicle pay more for the privilege.
Wise folks like you, that sqeeze every inch out of a gallon of gas pay less. There's your "attaboy".
But... you're not happy with that. It just bugs you to see other people not behaving as "smart" as you do. Bad persons! Bad persons! Must.... Punish....Bad..... Persons.... MORE!
I think you are going off the deep end there Toad. Your observation about why I posed it is not accurate. I figure the person who is driving irresponsibly needs more incentive to stop driving that way or he/she would already be doing it. You can chose to read in what you like and get all worked up if you want as well.
I am just guy trying to figure out how to make the best of a bad situation. I figure the current way its being done is not working too well or we would be in better shape than we are. I am just one opinion among many.
You know, all you have to do is ask, if you want to understand my motivations. Whether you chose to believe them or not is up to you.
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I think you are going off the deep end there Toad. Your observation about why I posed it is not accurate. I figure the person who is driving irresponsibly needs more incentive to stop driving that way or he/she would already be doing it. You can chose to read in what you like and get all worked up if you want as well.
I am just guy trying to figure out how to make the best of a bad situation. I figure the current way its being done is not working too well or we would be in better shape than we are. I am just one opinion among many.
You know, all you have to do is ask, if you want to understand my motivations. Whether you chose to believe them or not is up to you.
Bones, we're not reading into the situation. You're blatantly advertising your socialist view points. Hell, we didn't even really have to look for them. You threw them in our face.
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Ok, no discussion of it. I understand.
Socialist,..hehe,..funny guy.
Do not worry, I slow, but I am getting there are things that cannot be discussed on this board without people having some type of defensive seizure. It is that way with any board. You just have to find the things that can be talked about.
I do not have a lot of time to spend on it, so I try to get my discussions in when I can. Never had the intention of pissing off people. Just a lack of understanding of the demographic here. Pardon my ignorance.
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People aren't having seizures at all.
People are holding up your idea to the light and showing you that it refracts differently from different viewpoints.
You continually tell us you want people to drive "responsibly" which is to say you want them to drive the way YOU think is best.
What others are telling you is that it is:
1. None of your business if some kid wants to waste gas by jackrabbitting between stop lights. It's HIS money, not yours.
2. None of your business if some guy chooses to drive a 12 mpg Hummer because he likes it and can afford it. It's HIS money, not yours.
3. The current system of people in those two examples paying more than some "responsible" driver in a Civic is working EXACTLY as the system you propose. They do already pay more; it's their call, not yours.
4. The system is in fact working "well enough". The recent jump in gas prices to the $4 level has changed the minds of many of the nation's drivers. Consumption has dropped ~3% during the oil run up. In barrels of oil, that's a huge amount. Trucks and SUV's have essentially stopped selling.
Let the market work. We don't need another nanny.
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I wil say this and then stop.
So, when someone acts irresponsibly, which causes a negative impact on another person it is ok.
Since when did privileges at the expense of others become appropriate? I missed that memo.
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So, when someone acts irresponsibly, which causes a negative impact on another person it is ok.
How does someone else's bad driving habits impact you in a negative way?
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How does someone else's bad driving habits impact you in a negative way?
Really?
Let's just drop it. There is no point in trying to talk about it. I apologize for even trying to post here. Let it go. It's done. You are all right. I am all wrong. Just move on.
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There's no more "negative impact" to you from some SUV driver "overeating" at the gas pump than there is from some fattie overeating at the Country Buffet.
There is no shortage of oil or food. Have you had to wait in line at the gas pumps? Was it rationed? Could you only fill up on an odd/even license plate schedule?
Have you been to KFC and been told there's no chicken? McDonald's run out of hamburgers yet? The grocery store out of cheese?
Here's the crux: You view some "high school kid who is driving a monster 4x4 with a 454 engine in it who grannies along at 10 MPH getting" .5 miles to the gallon as "irresponsible".
That is your opinion. You are entitled to that opinion. You have every right to own a Honda Civic. Where you go horribly, horribly wrong is when you decide that kid should be punished with higher taxes. That is nanny state taken to the extreme.
You already have what you want. Upthread you said "if you provide a monetary incentive to do what you can to get better fuel mileage, I think it would work."
I think gas at $4/gallon provided a huge monetary incentive to make people attempt to get better mileage and cut out what they now feel are unnecessary trips.
You have what you want already BUT it doesn't involve any government coercion at all. How can you not be pleased.
Just a lack of understanding of the demographic here. Pardon my ignorance.
This is the same talk-down BS that we get from the Obamessiah. Your ideas were read, evaluated and drew responses. Because we don't agree with you we apparently belong to some unspecified "demographic" to which you feel morally or intellectually superior.
Well, bud...here's the demographic we belong to: we're in the group that favors individual liberty.
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I wil say this and then stop.
So, when someone acts irresponsibly, which causes a negative impact on another person it is ok.
Since when did privileges at the expense of others become appropriate? I missed that memo.
Perhaps I'm in the middle of having a stroke, but this post came up for me originally as done by Skuzzy. It seemed so odd and out of place that I didn't respond.
Now it's showing that Bones did it. Perhaps I crossed the edge of sanity back on 401 and 202...
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How does someone else's bad driving habits impact you in a negative way?
Ever been in a collision not of your own fault? I know you are thinking of something else entirely but the question you posted is less than stellar in explaining what you meant to convey.
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No that I side with him, but I think what Bones is trying to say is that when someone uses excessive amounts of gas it does put some additional cost onto those that try not to use as much just more in an indirect way.
The process of supply and demand causes this to happen (with a free-market it is extremely tough to regulate this). Those that chose to drive the .5 mpg vehicles and preform the jackrabbit starts help to increase demand. That demand increase helps to cause a decrease in supply which requires the oil companies to take additional actions to increase output to replenish those supplies. These additional steps cause an increase in price.
Unfortunately the only way out of this is to move closer to a socialist type setup. I wish there was a magic lamp that could be rubbed to make this simple but ages old problem go away, but that isnot going to happen.
I tried to keep it as simple as possible but I think that both sides have some of it right. I think Bones is right it sucks that those use more can afford it but do indirectly increase the price for thse of us who can not afford it as easily. However I also think the others are also right in that the only way to regulate that further is to tell everybody that you now have to purchase only what we tell you and you have to drive in a way that is conservative,making a little more socialist.
Just my take guys no insult or argument intended.
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Ever been in a collision not of your own fault? I know you are thinking of something else entirely but the question you posted is less than stellar in explaining what you meant to convey.
In the context of the thread, I didn't think I needed to explain it further. You obviously got what I meant from the start. :P
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If ya don't communicate clearly ya ain't comunicatin! Ya R just spreading letters thru the internet!
:P
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If ya don't communicate clearly ya ain't comunicatin! Ya R just spreading letters thru the internet!
:P
:lol
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Sen. Obama said this: "There are things that you can do individually though to save energy. Making sure your tires are properly inflated, simple thing, but we could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling, if everybody was just inflating their tires and getting regular tune-ups. You could actually save just as much."
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Off-shore drilling in the lower 48 states will yield approximately 200,000 barrels of oil per day... 20 years from now.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html (http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html)
27% of American cars would improve mileage by 3% by properly inflating tires, reducing oil consumption approximately 800,000 barrels per day immediately. That doesn't include the 4% improvement from tune ups.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/maintain.shtml (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/maintain.shtml)
There's never an Einstein around when you need one to do the math. Maybe Paris Hilton will be along to explain it. ;)
Ive posted this before, but it continually gets ignored
Last December, at the behest (and expense) of the American Petroleum Institute and Shell oil, I flew down to the Gulf Coast to visit an offshore oil platform. They helicoptered me 165 miles out into the gulf and I stepped onto Brutus, a tension-linked platform anchored to the seafloor 3,000 feet below. It would be an understatement to say I was in awe. Until you’re actually standing on one you can’t begin to appreciate the sheer size and complexity of such a thing.
The platform is the size of a few football fields jammed together, and the top of the derrick was easily a few hundred feet off the water. Dozens of people lived on board, and everything — from the computer systems to the actual drilling rig — was state of the art. Brutus produced over 100,000 barrels of oil a day — down from over 300,000 at its peak capacity.
That sounds impressive. But here’s what truly floored me: Shell decided Brutus’s location in the gulf would be profitable for drilling in April 1999. The company then built the massive oil platform, transported it to the right location in the gulf, anchored the floating leviathan onto the seafloor 3,000 feet below, drilled 17,000 feet below that, and began producing oil in July 2001. It took only two years to get Brutus online.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=N2M3YWQ5MTE3Yzc0ZmY3OGM1YmU0OTVhZWUwZjQ0ZTk=
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Lazs, as much as I would like to get on board with that, I doubt there is a pickup truck on the road that gets better gas mileage at 70 than at 55. Anytime you try to move a brick through the wind, the power required to do so goes up, in a not so linear fashion.
That is probably true for most SUV's as well.
Here is what I would like to see. I know it is not going to happen, but I think it might be a way to go. We want to encourage people to get better gas mileage. So why not plant an RFID tag in every automobile in this country which can broadcast the current gas mileage of the vehicle to the gas pump, which then assigns a tax on the fuel based on the gas mileage. The better the gas mileage, the lower the tax.
Of course it would have to exempt farmers, 18 wheelers, and/or a chunk of the commercial industry.
If the vehicle does not have an RFID tag, then the consumer pays the highest tax which would be assessed.
:rofl :rofl It's like that barnyard story where everyone is equal but some will be more equal than others. Geeze just what we need more taxes and more confusion.
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Lazs, as much as I would like to get on board with that, I doubt there is a pickup truck on the road that gets better gas mileage at 70 than at 55. Anytime you try to move a brick through the wind, the power required to do so goes up, in a not so linear fashion.
That is probably true for most SUV's as well.
Here is what I would like to see. I know it is not going to happen, but I think it might be a way to go. We want to encourage people to get better gas mileage. So why not plant an RFID tag in every automobile in this country which can broadcast the current gas mileage of the vehicle to the gas pump, which then assigns a tax on the fuel based on the gas mileage. The better the gas mileage, the lower the tax.
Of course it would have to exempt farmers, 18 wheelers, and/or a chunk of the commercial industry.
If the vehicle does not have an RFID tag, then the consumer pays the highest tax which would be assessed.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
You want me to let the government put chips on my car and truck so they can monitor me and my travels? :O
I don't freakin think so. That's JUST A LITTLE intrusive.
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Off-shore drilling in the lower 48 states will yield approximately 200,000 barrels of oil per day... 20 years from now.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html]http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html]http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html (http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html)
The 200,000 is way low and the 20 years is way high. Do you want reality or some government bull*hit?
For example,
Offshore Oil Production Estimate Illustrates Flaws in EIA Forecasting
http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2008/08/07/offshore-oil-production-estimate-illustrates-flaws-in-eia-forecasting/ (http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2008/08/07/offshore-oil-production-estimate-illustrates-flaws-in-eia-forecasting/)
You also have to understand that legally, the USGS is the only US organization that can provide oil estimate. The EIA takes that number and plays with it. The USGS know almost nothing about off shore oil because exploration is illegal. The USGS also knows very little about onshore oil until the oil companies start to drill. For example the USGS did their dance and estimated the Bakken oil field had 151 million barrels of oil. Then the oil companies did a little exploration and generated some real data for the USGS. Bases on that very limited data, the USGS increased their estimates *25 fold* to 3-4 billion barrels. Others (not USGS) say 150+ billion barrels. I can give examples like this all day long. The US doesn't know how much oil it has, but the number is an order of magnitude larger than the USGS estimates.
It's criminal to keep shipping hundreds of billions of US dollars and millions of good paying US oil related jobs to other countries in return for oil when the US already has a huge supply of it's own oil but so much of it is off limits for purely political reasons.
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I never said not to drill for oil. All I said is that inflating your tires saves a lot of gas immediately. You're opposed to proper inflation of tires?
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I never said not to drill for oil. All I said is that inflating your tires saves a lot of gas immediately. You're opposed to proper inflation of tires?
Tire pressure and fuel economy has been common knowledge for at least 40 years. Why does Osamabama think this is a new discovery ??? What makes him think that people aren't already doing this ??? I personally have been checking my tires about once a month since probably around 1985 !
Seriously it's insulting - it's like as if he's saying "Wait folks I gotta plan" *pulls out tire pressure gauge* "this baby will save the world ! Vote Me !"
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It's criminal to keep shipping hundreds of billions of US dollars and millions of good paying US oil related jobs to other countries in return for oil when the US already has a huge supply of it's own oil but so much of it is off limits for purely political reasons.
Well said Joe.
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yep.. 200,000 is for one oil rig.. one.
We have several sites ready for rigs in a year if the moratorium is lifted. I would say that in 10 years it will be more like 2-3 million gallons a day plus maybe a million from AMWAR
Socialists hate cars.... cars are freedom.. they have been trying to get inside our cars "for our own good" forever. It will be nothing for them to have all sorts of monitors on our cars and to lower the speed limit to whatever.. they want cars to be expensive to own and more trouble than they are worth so that we will all move into the blue city and ride around on their filthy buses.
oh.. on the rear end gears.. I meant the final drive. Almost all cars are now built with an overdrive that raises the final ratio. The old cars.. before the 55 mph speed limit thing had much lower gears (final drive)
The reason democrats don't want us to drill is they really hate cars... read algors book if you don't believe me.. they don't like how it makes us independent.. how it is something they don't have enough control over and how it keeps us out of the cities... the cities are where they rule.
lazs
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Interesting perspectives.
Yes, it is punitive. How many times a day do I get passed by some driver who insists on driving with both feet flat on the floor between stop llights only to arrive at the same destination at the same time as I do. I am paying for his irresponsibility. So are you.
How about the high school kid who is driving a monster 4x4 with a 454 engine in it who grannies along at 10 MPH getting .5 miles to the gallon?
And everyone is ok with that?
Sometimes a solution to a problem is not a happy pill to swallow. If you think everyone should be allowed to drive in an irresponsible manner, then I concede. I am more than happy to swallow the responsibility for my driving style at the pump. If I drive stupid, I should pay more for the privilege. If I drive smart I would like to see an 'atta boy' at the pump.
We are talking about a privilege, not a right.
I look at it like this. Anything we can do to reduce the gasoline consumption in our country is a win for everyone. If you think that demand can be met forever based on what is in the ground, then I am pissing in the wind and will keep my trap shut and move along.
Yep. Socialism and communism is the only true hope.
<insert tag here>
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Not only that but what you eat and how often you exercise affect each and every one of us with health care issues... and.. if you live out away from the city you are using our resources. every thing you do affects the rest of us so must be regulated and controlled and the only way to do that is to have a bigger and stronger government with more regulations..
sure.. it may cost 10 times as much and take away all your freedom but.. it will surely be worth it.
lazs
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Not only that but what you eat and how often you exercise affect each and every one of us with health care issues... and.. if you live out away from the city you are using our resources. every thing you do affects the rest of us so must be regulated and controlled and the only way to do that is to have a bigger and stronger government with more regulations..
sure.. it may cost 10 times as much and take away all your freedom but.. it will surely be worth it.
lazs
The multiple rainbows and a VW in every garage would be worth the effort alone.
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All I said is that inflating your tires saves a lot of gas immediately.
Damn and I've been running around with NO air in them. :rolleyes:
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Lol I wonder how many people are gonna die because they went out and over-inflated their tires (Duct tape revisited!)
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Damn and I've been running around with NO air in them. :rolleyes:
You retard your supposed to put air in them!!
:D
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BOOOO OBAMA!! BOOOOO :furious WOOT WOOT MCCAIN!!!
-BigBOBCH
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Lol I wonder how many people are gonna die because they went out and over-inflated their tires (Duct tape revisited!)
:rofl :rofl :rofl i 've been wondering the same thing :rofl :rofl :rofl
tire makers are going to love this one!sells alot of new tires when you run them over inflated!
by the way i wonder how much oil is in a tire?
70 % of Americans already inflate to the proper air pressure now!
the other 30% will not all do this, only about 15% will pay more att. to there tires for a short time then go back to driving around like they do today! so only about .9% savings of gas instead of the 3 too 4 percent the Messiah bragged about! some where earlier in this thread someone said we already use 3 to 4 % less fuel than we did when this whole train wreck started, by the Messiah's math!! we should already be off foreign oil!!!
we will still be adding cars and trucks to our roads for a long time so even if we conserve the numbers will still catch up.
to borrow from T Boone pickens, we cant conserve our way out of this! unless you all just want too set in the dark?
Bones
Copper Member
Reg: Apr 2008
Location: At my computer
Posts: 119
Offline
Re: Obama has a Fix for oil prices
« Reply #47 on: Yesterday at 04:27:22 PM » Quote
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I wil say this and then stop.
So, when someone acts irresponsibly, which causes a negative impact on another person it is ok.
Since when did privileges at the expense of others become appropriate? I missed that memo.
just after you said it was a "privilege" is when that happened!!! :rofl if it was a right then your right would have been infringed on,, but as long as it is a "privilege" only the ones who can afford it, will get too do it!!
if you want to make driving a right you might find more support! :noid
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Lol I wonder how many people are gonna die because they went out and over-inflated their tires (Duct tape revisited!)
Remember all those SUVs blowing out tires due to under-inflation? Get ready for round 2.
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Tire pressure and fuel economy has been common knowledge for at least 40 years. Why does Osamabama think this is a new discovery ??? What makes him think that people aren't already doing this ??? I personally have been checking my tires about once a month since probably around 1985 !
Seriously it's insulting - it's like as if he's saying "Wait folks I gotta plan" *pulls out tire pressure gauge* "this baby will save the world ! Vote Me !"
8 out of 10 cars the come into my shop have tires at a minimum of 7lbs under inflated
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Yep.. I think everyone should go out and buy a compressor.
lazs
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8 out of 10 cars the come into my shop have tires at a minimum of 7lbs under inflated
I'm curious here. Are they under inflated from the max pressure allowed on the sidewall or are they under inflated from the load they are carrying?
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In my estimation, about 8 out of 10 tire gauges are incorrect and not properly calibrated, but on the other hand , Obamasamamoma is full of crap 100% of the time. A real constant.
:rolleyes: