Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mg1942 on August 15, 2008, 12:38:32 AM
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You guys be the judge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl0Cg_3qoZw&fmt=18
This was a clip from May 9, 2008.
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:huh
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:huh
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URAAAAH! :D
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Yeah this one lost me too. :huh
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*rap-rap*
"McFly.... any body home?"
Yup.. we noticed over here the May Day parade in red square this past spring. 1st since the fall of the old regime, and re-introduced now that they have petro bucks to spend on uniforms and ballistic missles. All part of the new great patriotic drive for the Rodina and EMPIRE!!!TM
Didn't do an 'sweet thing about it; but we noticed.
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I swear that the world is reverting back to 1980s! (in pop culture terms...)
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See this is why Skuzzy has rule #17, if you just post a video clip, especially one in a foreign language alot of people may have no clue what the point your trying to make is.
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I swear that the world is reverting back to 1980s! (in pop culture terms...)
Yah think? Could be some 60's freaky-deaky black and white news reel stuff. ;)
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Yah think? Could be some 60's freaky-deaky black and white news reel stuff. ;)
:noid
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I swear that the world is reverting back to 1980s! (in pop culture terms...)
Not the whole world. Just Russia.
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See this is why Skuzzy has rule #17, if you just post a video clip, especially one in a foreign language alot of people may have no clue what the point your trying to make is.
here's the complete transcript (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0VU3KXJaRU)...
Glory to the great army of the liberators...
congratulations on the holiday of our VICTORY DAY!
URAH!
Soldiers.... URAHHH! (classical music plays...)
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Theyre missing tanks and cruise missiles on the ground and Bears roaring overhead. Not very impressive anymore IMHO.
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Theyre missing tanks and cruise missiles on the ground and Bears roaring overhead. Not very impressive anymore IMHO.
Not really. 2008 is much, MUCH better It even surpasses the Soviet era. Jets now fly past Red Square.
Here's armored vehicle, rockets, and planes... in HIGH DEFINITION! :eek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1R8cKdU5J4&fmt=18
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Not really. 2008 is much, MUCH better It even surpasses the Soviet era. Jets now fly past Red Square.
Here's the full version. Skip to 0:46:30 to see armored vehicle, rockets, and planes.
I think you forgot the link. :uhoh
:D
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link fixed.
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See this is why Skuzzy has rule #17, if you just post a video clip, especially one in a foreign language alot of people may have no clue what the point your trying to make is.
Then again, if all we get are ignorant up ur arse responses, what are we supposed to expect! :aok
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VE day in Whitehall :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbnzdmiCO6E&feature=related
Of more serious type, quite cool from Canada:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhEVII6DDfA&feature=related
Many vets here in Paris:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSUvZSKvgv8&feature=related
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The band major at 1.10 looks like he's eyeballin putin for little m2m action :D
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The band major at 1.10 looks like he's eyeballin putin for little m2m action :D
Do you think Putin knows that? :uhoh
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Good, all the russians killed in operation flashpoint and ArmA wont goto waste.
and perhaps all that flight time in jane's simulations wwIII theaters with russia and china in (2008-2012) will someday soon pay off.
Bring it on ivan, you know you wanna.
:rofl
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Emmm, the Russkies have nukes. Did you know that? And a lot of them....
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Emmm, the Russkies have nukes. Did you know that? And a lot of them....
are they that stupid? well maybe, a general of the peaceful russian federation said they are ready to nuke poland if the poles let the imperialist americans put anti missiles in poland.
???? so if the poles have a anti-missile system the russ will shoot nuke missiles at them? Yes , the russ are stupid.
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I would welcome a threatening red bear again. USSR gave us something to genuinely target, to keep foscused on. It gave us purpose, reason to drill, prepare for, anticipate, fear. It gave us our very best motivation.
I grew up on McChord AFB. lived there from 1965 to 1975. We lived knowing we were a target for a soviet nuclear warhead...24-7-365, year after year........Russia scares me none, USSR did not scare me, just as long as we can destroy it completely and utterly then we will be alright.
New Missles, new warheads, new submarines, new bombers, new tanks, soldiers equipment. We owned those red bastards before, we will own them again.
It is who we are.
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I grew up on McChord AFB. lived there from 1965 to 1975. We lived knowing we were a target for a soviet nuclear warhead...24-7-365, year after year........
That's not worth bragging about. Anyone living near a city of any size in the 80s was in the same boat. Especially if you had an air base nearby as well, as we did.
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Theyre missing tanks and cruise missiles on the ground and Bears roaring overhead. Not very impressive anymore IMHO.
Yea I was thinking the same thing... Where are the trucks with missiles, Armor rolling by and jets flying over head.. Looks like Putin's army needs some viagra it's looking a bit limp.
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I would welcome a threatening red bear again. USSR gave us something to genuinely target, to keep foscused on. It gave us purpose, reason to drill, prepare for, anticipate, fear. It gave us our very best motivation.
I grew up on McChord AFB. lived there from 1965 to 1975. We lived knowing we were a target for a soviet nuclear warhead...24-7-365, year after year........Russia scares me none, USSR did not scare me, just as long as we can destroy it completely and utterly then we will be alright.
New Missles, new warheads, new submarines, new bombers, new tanks, soldiers equipment. We owned those red bastards before, we will own them again.
It is who we are.
Yes, in a nuclear slugout, you will own them, so they'll get some more hits than you, and just about everybody dies. Isn't it nice.
I grew up having a target in the neighborhood as well :mad:
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Yea I was thinking the same thing... Where are the trucks with missiles, Armor rolling by and jets flying over head.. Looks like Putin's army needs some viagra it's looking a bit limp.
they are in bed with Iran who are in bed with every crazy cheekbones in the ME.
Do you think they really need them anymore?
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they are in bed with Iran who are in bed with every crazy baggy in the ME.
Do you think they really need them anymore?
Well, with this latest invasion of Georgia, they still apparantly use a conventional army. And they are tending to stroke Iran quite a lot.
BTW, you guys' are missing something. In this latest Georgian thing, Putin wasn't the limp one; He played his part rather well.
It was our current administration that went limp.
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4535173.ece
Russians were told over breakfast yesterday what really happened in Georgia: the conflict in South Ossetia was part of a plot by Dick Cheney, the Vice-President, to stop Barack Obama being elected president of the United States.
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Phhfffffttttttttttttt!
The bear is on it`s knees and there it will stay.
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That's not worth bragging about. Anyone living near a city of any size in the 80s was in the same boat. Especially if you had an air base nearby as well, as we did.
Dowding, you and I both know that the MAD Triad and NATO kept the west free... the risk never really went away. It was nice not having to worry about it for a few decades... now; we can worry about it again.
Given the choice... is there another path that can assure the west will stay free?
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Dowding, you and I both know that the MAD Triad and NATO kept the west free... the risk never really went away. It was nice not having to worry about it for a few decades... now; we can worry about it again.
Given the choice... is there another path that can assure the west will stay free?
I suggest leaving Russia alone and minding your own business.
Or maybe just stop barking, you are annoying. Caravan will keep going anyway.
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I suggest leaving Russia alone and minding your own business.
Or maybe just stop barking, you are annoying. Caravan will keep going anyway.
I would love to isolate russia completely. As you say... leave it alone.
Annoying you is my job. And, it's not just a job... it's an adventure.
:D
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I would love to isolate russia completely. As you say... leave it alone.
Annoying you is my job. And, it's not just a job... it's an adventure.
:D
You guys are on the point when no sane nation will want to have anything common with your regime. Some dogs are still barking, but after your Iraqi adventures no one will go fighting for your so-called criminal "democracy".
Look, you already flushed Georgians down the drain, after such an example I doubt there will be more fools screaming that you should join a war "on their side".
You personally are not annoying, just plain funny.
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Yup, and watch out, here comes the British Empire too, redcoats and all... :rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeEnhok8gsQ
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You guys are on the point when no sane nation will want to have anything common with your regime. Some dogs are still barking, but after your Iraqi adventures no one will go fighting for your so-called criminal "democracy".
Look, you already flushed Georgians down the drain, after such an example I doubt there will be more fools screaming that you should join a war "on their side".
You personally are not annoying, just plain funny.
Poland just signed the deal for US missile defense system. Do you know what the concession was that Poland insisted on... and we finally agreed to yesterday?
The permanent basing of American Combat Troops in Poland. They wanted 'em.. we didn't want them there. Why does Poland WANT US Troops stationed there? Because they know that if the Americans are there, we WILL come to their aid if Poland is attacked by Russia.
Speaks volumes about your lies, and the recognition of your country as a threat by the Eastern European Nations that have experience with your 'diplomacy'.
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Look, you already flushed Georgians down the drain, after such an example I doubt there will be more fools screaming that you should join a war "on their side".
Really? Last I heard, there were something like 50 warships off a gulf by Georgia ready to pounce on Russia if you guys dont pull out. Boroda, Russia is easily the crappiest large country in the world, crime rate is awful, and it's going down the path towards another Soviet Union. Russian Soldiers were SHOOTING media reporters.
Russia invaded a country for it's oil I assume. Osetia ISN'T a Russian territory. GET THAT IN YOUR HEAD. Russian soldiers INVADED Georgia, Russia WASN'T attacked. America will back up Georgia.
Face it, America has and always will beat Russia. Soviet or not, we're better. We have and had more freedoms, better military, better trade....
Iraq is going FINE, I dont know HOW many times I keep having to tell you that. We're already doing better in Afghanistan than you ever did. And we're doing better in Iraq than Russia could have done. We dont line up civilians and shoot them like in Afghanistan.
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America will back up Georgia.
Georgia is not an American territory. Get this in your head. :aok
On topic;
You can doubt the effectiveness of it all you want, but Russian equipment, particularly they're jets, are just plain sexy (much more than the newest American jets, though the F-15 will give the newest Sukhois and MiGs a run for their money as far as asthetics go... the F-22 and F-35 are flat out hideous though). And the AK-74M is just a badarse looking firearm :aok
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Georgia is not an American territory. Get this in your head. :aok
That's up to Georgia, ain't it?
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Poland just signed the deal for US missile defense system. Do you know what the concession was that Poland insisted on... and we finally agreed to yesterday?
The permanent basing of American Combat Troops in Poland. They wanted 'em.. we didn't want them there. Why does Poland WANT US Troops stationed there? Because they know that if the Americans are there, we WILL come to their aid if Poland is attacked by Russia.
Speaks volumes about your lies, and the recognition of your country as a threat by the Eastern European Nations that have experience with your 'diplomacy'.
Just out of interest... I am not anti missile shield, but what do you think the reaction would be if the Ruskies put a missile shield and troops in Mexico?
I can't imagine the Russians being very keen on this.
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Georgia is not an American territory. Get this in your head. :aok
On topic;
You can doubt the effectiveness of it all you want, but Russian equipment, particularly they're jets, are just plain sexy (much more than the newest American jets, though the F-15 will give the newest Sukhois and MiGs a run for their money as far as asthetics go... the F-22 and F-35 are flat out hideous though). And the AK-74M is just a badarse looking firearm :aok
Yes, but with B2Bs that can penetrate Soviet air space, those planes will be destroyed on the ground before they could ever up. IF we were to go to war with Russia, we'd end up probably not even invading. Just bombing them with stealth bombers till they gave up. A war with Russia would last a long time, but would cost them loads more than it would cost us. Nightly stealth bombings for 6 months to a year will do a number on ya.
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I can't imagine the Russians being very keen on this.
I believe this missle shield business is a direct result of all those ex-USSR enslaved nations that are deathly afraid of being forced back into communist slavery. Thats why everyone is looking at Putin and this Georgia invasion and going....uh oh, not again.
The only way Russia will ever be more than a drunkard has been of a broken down nation is if it can force its surrounding states back into its centralized form of USSR nation slavery. Will the west allow that to happen without putting up a fight? Bush may draw a line and say if Putin crosses it we will go to war. Once that happens all bets are off. Run for the hills!
anglesandair...you ar aware of the fact that Russia is loaded to the tits with nuclear warheads? We wont just be bombing Russia with golf balls son, we will be getting destroyed as well. Its called Mutually Assured Destruction and it wont last 6 months. 6 hours should do it. If that happens well.......you wont be playing AcesHigh anymore :aok
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Yes, but with B2Bs that can penetrate Soviet air space, those planes will be destroyed on the ground before they could ever up. IF we were to go to war with Russia, we'd end up probably not even invading. Just bombing them with stealth bombers till they gave up. A war with Russia would last a long time, but would cost them loads more than it would cost us. Nightly stealth bombings for 6 months to a year will do a number on ya.
I don't see how this has anything to do with my post. I stated that;
A)Georgia is not a territory of the United States, so be your logic the US has no business intervening.
B)That Russian military equipment is very sexy, whether or not it's more effective than US equipment.
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I believe this missle shield business is a direct result of all those ex-USSR enslaved nations that are deathly afraid of being forced back into communist slavery. Thats why everyone is looking at Putin and this Georgia invasion and going....uh oh, not again.
The only way Russia will ever be more than a drunkard has been of a broken down nation is if it can force its surrounding states back into its centralized form of USSR nation slavery. Will the west allow that to happen without putting up a fight? Bush may draw a line and say if Putin crosses it we will go to war. Once that happens all bets are off. Run for the hills!
anglesandair...you ar aware of the fact that Russia is loaded to the tits with nuclear warheads? We wont just be bombing Russia with golf balls son, we will be getting destroyed as well. Its called Mutually Assured Destruction and it wont last 6 months. 6 hours should do it. If that happens well.......you wont be playing AcesHigh anymore :aok
I am fully aware of that, but I seriously doubt either nation has the guts to push the button. I know Bush wont, and I doubt Putin would either. IF Putin were to do it, Chances are, the missiles would be shot down, and Russia would be nuked too.
All I can say is, if we were to be in a Nuclear Conflict, we wouldn't be the first ones to push the button, they would.
A)Georgia is not a territory of the United States, so be your logic the US has no business intervening.
B)That Russian military equipment is very sexy, whether or not it's more effective than US equipment.
A) Geogria could easily be another 1938, then whose next? Poland?
B) Never said Russian military Equipment wasn't. I personally think the Mig 31, and the Mig 29 are the sexiest foriegn planes out there.
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Poland was invaded in 1939.
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Poland was invaded in 1939.
Not what I'm trying to get to you. They could be trying to gobble up as many little nations as they can. If they go after a nation protected by us, it could be war.
Thats why Poland is getting American protection.
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So it's A-O-K for the United States to protect a smaller nation, and then retaliate for a larger nation invading it, but it's not acceptable for Russia to do the same?
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but what do you think the reaction would be if the Ruskies put a missile shield and troops in Mexico?
I imagine there would be lots of yelling and screaming and arm waving in Washington, and then we'd fortify our side of the border.
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Actually this scenario played itself out over 40 years ago and nearly resulted in nuclear war. :aok
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On topic;
You can doubt the effectiveness of it all you want, but Russian equipment, particularly they're jets, are just plain sexy (much more than the newest American jets, though the F-15 will give the newest Sukhois and MiGs a run for their money as far as asthetics go... the F-22 and F-35 are flat out hideous though). And the AK-74M is just a badarse looking firearm Thumbs UP!
Russian equipment may be sexier....I'll give you that. Answer this though, how well did it fare against it's Western counterparts in both Gulf wars? :P
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Russians were told over breakfast yesterday what really happened in Georgia: the conflict in South Ossetia was part of a plot by Dick Cheney, the Vice-President, to stop Barack Obama being elected president of the United States.
:rofl
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So it's A-O-K for the United States to protect a smaller nation, and then retaliate for a larger nation invading it, but it's not acceptable for Russia to do the same?
When has Russia done this? You can't say they just did it in South Ossetia because South Ossetia is still a separatist province of Georgia. So far, not one country, including Russia has recognized South Ossetia as a separate country.
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so is Russia going to "liberate" Poland next or the Ukraine or the Czech republic?
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So it's A-O-K for the United States to protect a smaller nation, and then retaliate for a larger nation invading it, but it's not acceptable for Russia to do the same?
Osetia isn't a nation. It's a province part of Georgia.
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4535173.ece
Russians were told over breakfast yesterday what really happened in Georgia: the conflict in South Ossetia was part of a plot by Dick Cheney, the Vice-President, to stop Barack Obama being elected president of the United States.
Someone is hallucinating. There was nothing like that in Russian news. I strongly advice you to study opponent's POV. Russia Today TV channel may be a good start, they broadcast in English.
McCaine is a looney, but no one here ever discusses the choice of American people in such words.
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So it's A-O-K for the United States to protect a smaller nation, and then retaliate for a larger nation invading it, but it's not acceptable for Russia to do the same?
Nope. Because Russia doesnt export freedom and Democracy. And couldnt care a wit about Human rights. And thats what it comes down to.
"Words" arent a good enough reason because you can use them to justify, or legalize, anything.
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When has Russia done this? You can't say they just did it in South Ossetia because South Ossetia is still a separatist province of Georgia. So far, not one country, including Russia has recognized South Ossetia as a separate country.
Kosovo is a separatist province of Serbia, controlled by KLA, a terrorist organisation, that performed ethnic cleansings against native Serbian population.
Ossetia is a classic "divided nation", and it has a right to re-unite like Germany.
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McCaine is a looney, but no one here ever discusses the choice of American people in such words.
:rofl
And you assume Obama is better? Obama is a whimp. Only reason Russians want him to get elected. So you can get away with things again.
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Nope. Because Russia doesnt export freedom and Democracy. And couldnt care a wit about Human rights. And thats what it comes down to.
"Words" arent a good enough reason because you can use them to justify, or legalize, anything.
You export not "freedom" or "democracy" but mass-murder and humanitarian catastrophes. I don't want some foreign crooks to dictate me my country's policy by carpet bombings and cruise missiles.
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:rofl
And you assume Obama is better? Obama is a whimp. Only reason Russians want him to get elected. So you can get away with things again.
I don't a specialist in distinguishing different kinds of crap. I can say that OTOH our relations with Republicans are better then with Democratic presidents.
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You export not "freedom" or "democracy" but mass-murder and humanitarian catastrophes. I don't want some foreign crooks to dictate me my country's policy by carpet bombings and cruise missiles.
Lets see, we are, and HAVE done a whole lot better than the Russians. Go look at Afghanistan. Didn't you guys murder, not killed in crossfire, but COLD bloodedly MURDERED something like 50,000 Civilians? And dont get me started on the ones caught in crossfire.
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Kosovo is a separatist province of Serbia, controlled by KLA, a terrorist organisation, that performed ethnic cleansings against native Serbian population.
The only evidence we saw of ethnic cleansing in Kosovo was that done by the Serbians. Serbians were forcing Kosovans out of their homes at gun point and not even trying to hide it. More Russian propaganda pewps.
Ossetia is a classic "divided nation", and it has a right to re-unite like Germany.
That needs to be done diplomatically then. Although I must say, that statement coming from a Russian is pretty rich. East/West Germany anyone? Also, if Russia was so concerned about North/South Ossetia reuniting, then why did Russia create North Ossetia and leave South Ossetia as part of Georgia? Simple reason is that Russia wasn't concerned about it.
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Someone is hallucinating.
Vesti FM?
Did Vasili Lickhachev not recently say: “The West has spent a lot of time, energy and money to teach Georgia the tricks of the trade . . . to make the country look like a democracy,”
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You export not "freedom" or "democracy" but mass-murder and humanitarian catastrophes. I don't want some foreign crooks to dictate me my country's policy by carpet bombings and cruise missiles.
we will crush you!
lol :aok
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4535173.ece
Read down, though. This is the part that get's alarming:
“George Bush's Administration is promoting interests of candidate John McCain,” said Dr Markov. “Defeated by Barak Obama on all fronts, McCain has one last card to play yet - the creation of a virtual Cold War with Russia . . . Bush himself did not want a war in South Ossetia but his Republican Party did not leave him any choice.” The Americans were now engineering an armed conflict between Ukraine and Russia, Dr Markov added.
That language can be interpreted as the Ukraine is next-and I'd bet soon.
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The only evidence we saw of ethnic cleansing in Kosovo was that done by the Serbians. Serbians were forcing Kosovans out of their homes at gun point and not even trying to hide it. More Russian propaganda pewps.
There is no evidence of ethnic cleansings done by Serbs. No intl commission found anything there.
Serbs started a police operation against KLA only after bombings began.
That needs to be done diplomatically then. Although I must say, that statement coming from a Russian is pretty rich. East/West Germany anyone? Also, if Russia was so concerned about North/South Ossetia reuniting, then why did Russia create North Ossetia and leave South Ossetia as part of Georgia? Simple reason is that Russia wasn't concerned about it.
Create?! It was given to Georgia in 1921. Georgia denounced 1921 treaties and therefore lost it's souverignity over Abkhazia and SO.
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Lets see, we are, and HAVE done a whole lot better than the Russians. Go look at Afghanistan. Didn't you guys murder, not killed in crossfire, but COLD bloodedly MURDERED something like 50,000 Civilians? And dont get me started on the ones caught in crossfire.
We also killed Kennedy and Jesus.
Iraq lost over a million people since 2003. You killed over 4 million people in Vietnam.
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If Russia is an aggressor there - then why did about 100,000 refugees flee SO and moved to Russia?... I mean - in early 90s.
Georgia was independent for 21 years in XX century and already started 7 wars...
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Read down, though. This is the part that get's alarming:
That language can be interpreted as the Ukraine is next-and I'd bet soon.
That'd match the apparent Russian anticipation of a Cheney conspiracy (tongue in cheek; maybe): so much russian military ready to roll from T=0.
Boroda - Your numbers have been very wrong very often in the past. I recall even people like Widewing pointing out the ridiculously big holes in your pretentions. Something about Russian planes over some warzone or other, back in the cold war? The only thing you have going for you is a few posters who for some reason (I don't know what if not friend's loyalty) will defend you.. That doesn't do anything for your credibility, though.
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That'd match the apparent Russian anticipation of a Cheney conspiracy (tongue in cheek; maybe): so much russian military ready to roll from T=0.
Boroda - Your numbers have been very wrong very often in the past. I recall even people like Widewing pointing out the ridiculously big holes in your pretentions. Something about Russian planes over some warzone or other, back in the cold war? The only thing you have going for you is a few posters who for some reason (I don't know what if not friend's loyalty) will defend you.. That doesn't do anything for your credibility, though.
what credibility?
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Well I'm not the information ministry, so I won't pretend to speak for Boroda on that matter...
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We also killed Kennedy and Jesus.
Iraq lost over a million people since 2003. You killed over 4 million people in Vietnam.
Are you serious? Dude, you're an idiot. After this post, you've become #1 on my idiot list.
But hey, you cant fix stupid can you....
Highest numbers average around 200,000 and lowest average to as low as 80,000. Wrong again idiot.
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We also killed Kennedy and Jesus.
Iraq lost over a million people since 2003. You killed over 4 million people in Vietnam.
(http://www.iraqbodycount.org/graphs/timeline.php)
Iraq Body Count shows 86,609 to 94,490 civilian deaths due to violence since invasion
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(http://www.iraqbodycount.org/graphs/timeline.php)
Iraq Body Count shows 86,609 to 94,490 civilian deaths due to violence since invasion
You mean directly killed by "liberators"?
I remember a number of 700,000 victims in Australian news in Oct 2006. Australian news - a good source? :D Don't you know there is a civil war?
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If Russia is an aggressor there - then why did about 100,000 refugees flee SO and moved to Russia?... I mean - in early 90s.
Georgia was independent for 21 years in XX century and already started 7 wars...
If you look at this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_invasion_of_Georgia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_invasion_of_Georgia) (It's an interesting read, btw) You'll see that this isn't the first time the Russians' have had designs' on Georgia. I'm also thinking that Poti might be a convenient base for the Black Sea fleet when the Ukraine boots' them out here in 2017, when their lease is up. To read about that, take a look here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevastopol#Russian_naval_base_and_ownership_dispute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevastopol#Russian_naval_base_and_ownership_dispute)
And one last thing I'd like to point out.
On April 9, 1991, shortly before the collapse of the USSR, Georgia declared independence. On May 26, 1991, Zviad Gamsakhurdia was elected as a first President of independent Georgia. However, he was soon deposed in a bloody coup d'état, from December 22, 1991 to January 6, 1992. The coup was instigated by part of the National Guards and a paramilitary organization called "Mkhedrioni". The country became embroiled in a bitter civil war which lasted almost until 1995. Eduard Shevardnadze returned to Georgia in 1992 and joined the leaders of the coup — Kitovani and Ioseliani — to head a triumvirate called the "State Council".
In 1995, Shevardnadze was officially elected as a president of Georgia. At the same time, two regions of Georgia, Abkhazia and South Ossetia, quickly became embroiled in disputes with local separatists that led to widespread inter-ethnic violence and wars. Supported by Russia, Abkhazia and South Ossetia achieved de facto independence from Georgia. More than 250,000 Georgians were ethnically cleansed from Abkhazia by Abkhaz separatists and North Caucasians volunteers (including Chechens) in 1992-1993. More than 25,000 Georgians were expelled from Tskhinvali as well, and many Ossetian families were forced to abandon their homes in the Borjomi region and move to Russia.
You hoot and holler about 100,000 Ossetian's leaving the front line?
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There is no evidence of ethnic cleansings done by Serbs. No intl commission found anything there.
Really....no evidence?
http://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/kosovoii/homepage.html
A central question is the number of Kosovar Albanian victims of Serbian forces in Kosovo. Many bodies were found when KFOR and the ICTY entered Kosovo in June 1999. The evidence is also now clear that Serbian forces conducted a systematic campaign to burn or destroy bodies, or to bury the bodies, then rebury them to conceal evidence of Serbian crimes. On June 4, at the end of the conflict, the Department of State issued the last of a series of weekly ethnic cleansing reports, available at www.state.gov/www/regions/eur/rpt_990604_ksvo_ethnic.html concluding that at least 6,000 Kosovar Albanians were victims of mass murder, with an unknown number of victims of individual killings, and an unknown number of bodies burned or destroyed by Serbian forces throughout the conflict.
On November 10, 1999, ICTY Chief Prosecutor Carla Del Ponte told the U.N. Security Council that her office had received reports of more than 11,000 killed in 529 reported mass grave and killing sites in Kosovo. The Prosecutor said her office had exhumed 2,108 bodies from 195 of the 529 known mass graves. This would imply about 6,000 bodies in mass graves in Kosovo if the 334 mass graves not examined thus far contain the same average number of victims. To this total must be added three important categories of victims: (1) those buried in mass graves whose locations are unknown, (2) what the ICTY reports is a significant number of sites where the precise number of bodies cannot be counted, and (3) victims whose bodies were burned or destroyed by Serbian forces. Press accounts and eyewitness accounts provide credible details of a program of destruction of evidence by Serbian forces throughout Kosovo and even in Serbia proper. The number of victims whose bodies have been burned or destroyed may never be known, but enough evidence has emerged to conclude that probably around 10,000 Kosovar Albanians were killed by Serbian forces.
More sources:
http://www.osce.org/odihr/item_11_17755.html Files for download there.
Crimes documented by Human Rights Watch: http://hrw.org/campaigns/kosovo98/timeline.shtml
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/fry/
http://www.islamawareness.net/Persecution/Kosovo/
There is plenty of evidence for the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo by the Serbs.
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You mean directly killed by "liberators"?
I remember a number of 700,000 victims in Australian news in Oct 2006. Australian news - a good source? :D Don't you know there is a civil war?
Got any quotes?
Like I said, you're an idiot.
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There is plenty of evidence for the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo by the Serbs.
Only _after_ bombings began.
Quoting HRW is even more stupid then using Wikipedia as a "reliable source".
OK guys you persuaded me.
Your leadership lied for decades saying it's fighting Communist system in USSR. You just don't need powerful and independent Russia that has it's own policy protecting it's own interests.
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You killed over 4 million people in Vietnam.
The last time you used a figure of 3 million.
In 1995, the Vietnamese government reported that its military forces, including the NLF, suffered 1.1 million dead and 600,000 wounded during Hanoi's conflict with the United States. Civilian deaths were put at two million in the North and South, and economic reparations were expected.
Those figures would include civilians killed not only by the US, but also by ARVN forces, RoK units. Thai, Australian and New Zealand units also saw action in Vietnam. These are total casualty figures so they include the Vietnamese killed by other Vietnamese as well, you know, the NVA and Viet Cong units that killed other Vietnamese.
It is faulty to say the US killed all those people.
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Only _after_ bombings began.
The ethnic cleansing is the reason the bombings started.
Quoting HRW is even more stupid then using Wikipedia as a "reliable source".
If the articles at Wikipedia are documented, they can, and many times are, quite reliable. One only has to follow the documentation trail to find this out.
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Your leadership lied for decades saying it's fighting Communist system in USSR.
The Cold War wasn't a clash between two radically opposed ideologies? Both sides building massive stocks of weapons and munitions, fearful that their opponent might attack at any time? That didn't happen?
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The ethnic cleansing is the reason the bombings started.
If the articles at Wikipedia are documented, they can, and many times are, quite reliable. One only has to follow the documentation trail to find this out.
There were about 200 victims on each side in several years before the bombings began. After terrorists received massive military aid - Serbs were forced to counter-act.
Mind reading Serbian sources too, not only HRW "Serbs and Russians killed Jesus" screams. I don't trust any organisation sponsored by US govt funds. You are too famous for psy-ops.
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Re: USSR reborn?
Id say yes.....along with the cold war.....and it only took a couple of days.
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Serbs and Russians killed Jesus" screams.
As a Christian I actually find your....*killed Jesus* comments a bit on the ridiculous side since it was the Jews and Romans who did that. ;)
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There were about 200 victims on each side in several years before the bombings began.
Keep believing the Russian propaganda machine. It's quite comical. ;)
I showed multiple sources Boroda, not just HRW. All the sources agreed on the ethnic cleansing by the Serbs. But keep focusing on HRW and ignoring the rest. :P
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Elfie, that comment is just part of his "poor, poor pitiful me" routine that whines that the Russians get blamed for everything even though they have never, ever done anything disgraceful.
If you want a real hoot, look up some of the old Katyn forest threads. Despite incontrovertible physical evidence and actual admission by both Gorbachev and Yeltsin, Boroda still makes the silliest denials that the NKVD killed the Poles. Those threads are even funnier than this one.
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Elfie, that comment is just part of his "poor, poor pitiful me" routine that whines that the Russians get blamed for everything even though they have never, ever done anything disgraceful.
If you want a real hoot, look up some of the old Katyn forest threads. Despite incontrovertible physical evidence and actual admission by both Gorbachev and Yeltsin, Boroda still makes the silliest denials that the NKVD killed the Poles. Those threads are even funnier than this one.
I've read some of those threads about the Katyn forest massacres. And some of the ones about the fighting between the Finns and the Soviets during WWII, his position on various things that have to do with the old USSR are quite comical. :lol
Although I have to say, that his position that Finland started the fighting and was responsible for thousands of lives lost because of their refusal to accept a land trade had to be the most ridiculous position he has tried to defend. :rofl