Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Serenity on August 15, 2008, 09:21:25 PM
-
But this is starting to sound rather pathetic.
http://www.military.com/news/article/predator-pilots-suffering-war-stress.html?ESRC=dod.nl
Highlights: Predator pilots are suffering war stress!
-
You know, I was going to agree with you about this, but I've changed my mind.
The way the article describes it... The way they casually fight a war like it's a day job, then go home... It'd probably affect me too.
But take that from someone who has no experience whatsoever.
-
You know, I was going to agree with you about this, but I've changed my mind.
The way the article describes it... The way they casually fight a war like it's a day job, then go home... It'd probably affect me too.
But take that from someone who has no experience whatsoever.
I just think that in the heirarchy of trauma victims, the guys actually OVER the battlefield, and the guys on the ground there are a bit higher up. What these guys do is practically a video-game.
-
Except for, when they're playing this game, they are actually ending someone's life. And, since they are in their comfortable, air conditioned trailer, with no threat to them. They can't rationalize it as well as a frontline combat soldier can... shot or be shot... they're watching comfortably in high definition as the trigger they pulled is ending a man's (or multiple mens') life(ves).
I thought the same way as laser (that's a new one :lol), I thought this was pretty stupid at first but when you think about it...
-
At this point:...
I think all of us are suffering war stress to some degree.
-
they need to hire sociopaths for the job
-
I think these guys have valid war time stress, like it says, normally when a pilot drops a bomb he doesn't usually see the people he's just killed, but the Predator pilots see in high resolution the people he's firing a missile at, and then goes back home to a normal environment.
-
Sorry, can't really break out a tear for this one, especially when you compare it to the folks on the ground in country.
-
but you can't compare them to the ground folks. Killing is killing! it's not natural to do. DO I feel less sympothy for these guys than some grunt? hell yea.....but it's still gonna take a toll on the soul. Unless you have a hard heart you aren't programed as a human to push a button and kill somone then go home and kiss the wife and kids as you walk in the door.
-
but you can't compare them to the ground folks. Killing is killing! it's not natural to do. DO I feel less sympothy for these guys than some grunt? hell yea.....but it's still gonna take a toll on the soul. Unless you have a hard heart you aren't programed as a human to push a button and kill somone then go home and kiss the wife and kids as you walk in the door.
well said Gunslinger
-
These guys deserve a way to release too. I may not have ever had bullets zinging over my head but I can tell you after working in the emergency services for almost 10 years now, I would be crazy if I would not be able to vent to someone that actually understands where I am coming from. I am fortunate in that respect my job is not secret and I have a wife that works in the same field as I do.
These guys may not be effected in the same way as those on the ground. I'll admit that in alot of ways their job may be easier than those away from home but there are aspects that make such a thing difficult too. One of which is probably feeling the need to talk it out with the one person that you are supposed to be able to vent to and can't. That would be very difficult to me since my wife and I communicate everything and can tell when something is wrong.
I just don't believe that the article meant any disrespect to those that have been in the firefights but simply telling that there are other aspects that originally not anticipated until now.
I will now share some wise words that my uncle who was a bomber (not sure which one) pilot in WWII shared with me prior to his passing. Don't judge another man until you walked a milein his shoes. In other words you don't know how hard that mans job is until you have actually had to do it.
Food for thought.
-
Highlights: Predator pilots are suffering war stress!
Looks like the idea that appears so popular here, to go to war with Russia, is not that good at all :D
-
Looks like the idea that appears so popular here, to go to war with Russia, is not that good at all :D
gimme a break.
In your latest field of glory. Russia has shown all the skill that would be necessary for Hulk hogan to kick the arse of a 60 pound 11 year old blind girl.
-
gimme a break.
In your latest field of glory. Russia has shown all the skill that would be necessary for Hulk hogan to kick the arse of a 60 pound 11 year old blind girl.
What?!
Your allmighty Georgian americanly-trained glorious troops got kicked by numerically inferior untrained Russian drafted soldiers armed by obsolet AKs not allmighty M4s!!!
Better watch news from Iraq right now. Peacemakers my ass!
-
Looks like the idea that appears so popular here, to go to war with Russia, is not that good at all :D
Um... No offense, but just remember. When the call to war comes, ALL of our B-52s on the line will start the first time. Each of our B-1s will make it off of the runway on the first attempt. Each B-2 will release ordinance without fail. And all the while they will be escorted by some of the best aircraft in the world. America may not be what it used to be, but if we give our military the freedom to fight a PROPER war, someone is gonna get a big hurtin...
-
What?!
Your allmighty Georgian americanly-trained glorious troops got kicked by numerically inferior untrained Russian drafted soldiers armed by obsolet AKs not allmighty M4s!!!
Better watch news from Iraq right now. Peacemakers my ass!
Most pictures of the Georgian military I've seen have soldiers using old, obsolete Soviet equipment.
-
What?!
Your allmighty Georgian americanly-trained glorious troops got kicked by numerically inferior untrained Russian drafted soldiers armed by obsolet AKs not allmighty M4s!!!
Better watch news from Iraq right now. Peacemakers my ass!
Actually, I have several of those 'obsolet' weapons. Nothing wrong with 'em, if the intent is to make noise, no matter what. Of course, should accuracy also be a requirement, then there could be a few issues...
Kinda like your russian propaganda. Never on target, but there is a great noise...
-
Most pictures of the Georgian military I've seen have soldiers using old, obsolete Soviet equipment.
One of the thousands of trophys they left running away from Tskhinval:
(http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/v/o/voinodel/fp_14.JPG)
-
Georgian operated T72B
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/T72_Georgia.jpg)
BTR80
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Georgian_BTR-80s.jpg)
And, the one of the few pictures I've seen from the conflict, a Georgian with what seems to be an SVD (or some kind of copy or variant of it)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/047_South_Ossetia_war.JPG)
woah pics weren't resized... what's the code for this?
-
I can't be the only one here thoroughly enjoying the fact that a 14 year old just put Boroda in his place. :)
-
One of the thousands of trophys they left running away from Tskhinval:
(http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/v/o/voinodel/fp_14.JPG)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/crittergitter/Mosins.jpg)
A few of the better pieces left behind in the snow behind retreating (panicked) Russian Soldiers that attempted to invade Finland... tell us of the Finn's, Boroda... how they threw your commie hero's back 4 times. Villagers, armed with the weapons your troops abandoned in the snow tossing your dreams of a simple conquest into the crapper.
One of the more entertaining moments in soviet history.
http://www.winterwar.com/ (http://www.winterwar.com/)
-
Awesome response to a blatant hijack. :aok
I can't be the only one who draws a parallel between Russia and that Wizard of Oz scene. "Pay no attention to man behind the green curtain..."
-
I can't be the only one here thoroughly enjoying the fact that a 14 year old just put Boroda in his place. :)
I don't know about that ;) The first two pictures seem rather old, as the personnel are wearing what seems to be, to my forgetful, untrained eyes on this subject, old Soviet camouflage, while in the most recent picture from the South Ossetian conflict the soldiers are wearing what look to be American Woodland BDU's.
@ Hangtime's post;
The Mosin Nagant is such a beautiful rifle... :)
-
Georgian operated T72B
BTR80
And, the one of the few pictures I've seen from the conflict, a Georgian with what seems to be an SVD (or some kind of copy or variant of it)
Georgians have more up-to-date versions of T-72s then our 68th Army. Russians even use T-62s that are over 40 years old, with grid screens.
Who's this guy in obviously Russian winter camo standing back to us on T-72 pic?
Georgian military budget went up 30 times under Saakashvili and reached $1 billion in 2007, but looks like they steal most of it. Did you see how many equipment they simply abandoned in SO? It's on our TV, Ukrainian T-72s and BTRs, Czech self-propelled guns, US truks and humvees. I wonder how many US choppers got shot down by the same drafted 18 year old boys we all saw on TV.
Professional trained georgian army my ass! :D Underfed semi-literate Vietnamese did much better.
-
A few of the better pieces left behind in the snow behind retreating (panicked) Russian Soldiers that attempted to invade Finland... tell us of the Finn's, Boroda... how they threw your commie hero's back 4 times. Villagers, armed with the weapons your troops abandoned in the snow tossing your dreams of a simple conquest into the crapper.
One of the more entertaining moments in soviet history.
http://www.winterwar.com/ (http://www.winterwar.com/)
Finns are very much aware of the fact that both in 40 and 44 we just got what we want froom them and then left them alone withut any possible way to defend further. In 44 - with amazing efficiency. Probably USSR didn't have to deploy tha much troops against them :D
Maybe it was a good idea to enter Finland with mobile groops in 40, like we did in Georgia this week, just to collect or destroy what was left of their military equipment, in this case they couldn't take part in starving millions in Leningrad one year later.
-
Professionally trained Russian army my ass! :D Underfed semi-literate Afghans did much better.
Fixed.
-
Fixed.
Did they? :D
That's why you guys pay taxes so big. Any moron in White a House can sell you a Brooklyn Bridge.
Get real. All this "liberation and democracy" in fancy uniforms with M4s and george's flags is at your expense and it's not the best invesment, I bet. :D
I suppose it's better to invest in salt and matches if your best ally is a current Georgian regime :D
-
Are you going to dispute history outright now? I know you're used to being told what you'll know and like, but please try to separate fact from state-sponsored fiction.
At least you went in for the right reasons this time, peacemakers...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1563317.ece (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1563317.ece)
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/aug/16/georgians-force-to-clean-south-ossetia-streets/ (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/aug/16/georgians-force-to-clean-south-ossetia-streets/)
If you're interested in continuing this 'All glory to Mother Russia' discussion, post up a thread so I'm not forced into continuing your hijack of Serenity's topic by confusing you with facts.
-
BOOM HEADSHOT!
BOOM HEADSHOT!
shrecking raghead liberal bananas, oops that fool is still moving. Eat hot cannon leftist terrorist scum!
Cya tomarrow Fred, Later Bill.
wheres my car Im gonna get a pizza otw home.
Sleeping soundly dreaming of some terrorist/commie scum, dance their way to paradise to the tune of 30mm
They should have hired me.
-
But this is starting to sound rather pathetic.
http://www.military.com/news/article/predator-pilots-suffering-war-stress.html?ESRC=dod.nl
Highlights: Predator pilots are suffering war stress!
Perhaps the most difficult thing for a Soldier to do is to kill. But in war, in combat it is not an overtly difficult decision to make. Kill, or be killed, kill or watch my brothers die. There are ways to rationalize it, there are men who have been and seen and know right there to help you through it.
With remote pilots... there is no outside stress that forces the mind into basic instincts. Just the confirmation order to push the button.
That's gotta be tough.
I hope those people get the help they need. :salute
-
Perhaps the most difficult thing for a Soldier to do is to kill. But in war, in combat it is not an overtly difficult decision to make. Kill, or be killed, kill or watch my brothers die. There are ways to rationalize it, there are men who have been and seen and know right there to help you through it.
With remote pilots... there is no outside stress that forces the mind into basic instincts. Just the confirmation order to push the button.
That's gotta be tough.
I hope those people get the help they need. :salute
You mean you hope they quit whining like little girls.
-
You mean you hope they quit whining like little girls.
That's a fantastic troll, because there's no way you could possibly diminish the sacrifice our troops make with such a stupid comment.
Talk like that might get ya clipped, chief.
-
That's a fantastic troll, because there's no way you could possibly diminish the sacrifice our troops make with such a stupid comment.
Talk like that might get ya clipped, chief.
Ive looked at an armed enemy over the sights of a gun, to this day I regret not taking the shot. How about you SailorMoon?
-
You mean you hope they quit whining like little girls.
No I don't hope they quit whining like little girls. It's a squeak of a job to have to do. I know people who have been in combat, who have killed in combat. I also know that they would far prefer wars to be fought, by our side at least, by remote. And so do the people flying the UAV's. For them the rationale is that every UAV kill they make is men, and bombs, and explosives that won't come into contact with our boys on the ground. So the first one is easy. Click. 5 Men will never plant that EFP.
But what about the 2nd time? Tenth time? Twentieth? 100th mission? I imagine it gets to the point where after awhile it doesn't feel like protecting your soldiers, but more like murder. And while its still about protecting our soldiers, its the mindset that it's too easy to kill that is probably getting to these people.
What I would recommend, is that they get rotated onto front line postings. So that they can see, and interact with the people that are getting saved by their actions, that they can hear first hand the good they are doing. I imagine that would make all the world to those people, and the whining like a baby bit would stop.
Stop me if I'm wrong, but being told that you saved someone's life feels pretty good doesn't it? Kinda helps you get over the crummiest of jobs wouldn't you think? Being an infantryman and getting a medal for your actions isn't about the medal. Its about someone watching you and telling you that you are doing the right thing, and that you are doing it well. That's all these people need.
How many medals get handed out for pushing a button inside an air-conditioned trailer hooked up to a drone 30 miles away?
-
At this point:...
I think all of us are suffering war stress to some degree.
Really? How much war stress do you have?
-
Now what???
More REMF's whinin about their war stress??? Shut up boy, cuz you don't know squat!!!!
Oh brother!!!! Turn the page!!!!
RC
-
No I don't hope they quit whining like little girls. It's a wench of a job to have to do. I know people who have been in combat, who have killed in combat. I also know that they would far prefer wars to be fought, by our side at least, by remote. And so do the people flying the UAV's. For them the rationale is that every UAV kill they make is men, and bombs, and explosives that won't come into contact with our boys on the ground. So the first one is easy. Click. 5 Men will never plant that EFP.
But what about the 2nd time? Tenth time? Twentieth? 100th mission? I imagine it gets to the point where after awhile it doesn't feel like protecting your soldiers, but more like murder. And while its still about protecting our soldiers, its the mindset that it's too easy to kill that is probably getting to these people.
What I would recommend, is that they get rotated onto front line postings. So that they can see, and interact with the people that are getting saved by their actions, that they can hear first hand the good they are doing. I imagine that would make all the world to those people, and the whining like a baby bit would stop.
Stop me if I'm wrong, but being told that you saved someone's life feels pretty good doesn't it? Kinda helps you get over the crummiest of jobs wouldn't you think? Being an infantryman and getting a medal for your actions isn't about the medal. Its about someone watching you and telling you that you are doing the right thing, and that you are doing it well. That's all these people need.
How many medals get handed out for pushing a button inside an air-conditioned trailer hooked up to a drone 30 miles away?
I think the people who undergo such stress from using a remote vehicle perhaps just don't have what it takes to cut it as a semi-combat pilot. If they cannot handle the stress, rotate them out for someone who can. There ARE people out there, MANY, who can do this job without such suffering.
My $.02
-
Let me guess, this would be the chair force warrior whining about seeing combat?
-
I think the people who undergo such stress from using a remote vehicle perhaps just don't have what it takes to cut it as a semi-combat pilot. If they cannot handle the stress, rotate them out for someone who can. There ARE people out there, MANY, who can do this job without such suffering.
My $.02
No one's talking about that. What we're talking about is the extreme disparity these pilots go through day in and day out. Sure, the stress isn't nearly as high, and they aren't likely to die except in a freak pencil sharpening accident... However the troops on the ground in Iraq don't go home to their wives every night. They don't have to put on a smiling face as they walk over the threshold from their 9-5 grind.
And if there was any member of the Military that would be extremely embarrassed to show stress from their duty, it's these guys.
-
No one's talking about that. What we're talking about is the extreme disparity these pilots go through day in and day out. Sure, the stress isn't nearly as high, and they aren't likely to die except in a freak pencil sharpening accident... However the troops on the ground in Iraq don't go home to their wives every night. They don't have to put on a smiling face as they walk over the threshold from their 9-5 grind.
And if there was any member of the Military that would be extremely embarrassed to show stress from their duty, it's these guys.
I guess unless I live through it, (And I pray I never will...) I just will not see it this way.
-
oh Puhleeze!
These guys aren't stressed. It's a freaking video game to them. This is what happens when you take the Human factor out of war. It becomes "clean".
Come on...fly a drone, drop a few eggs or spot a few "terrorists" for a strike and go home to the missus for a hot and a warm cot?
Gimme a break.
RTR
-
gimme a break.
In your latest field of glory. Russia has shown all the skill that would be necessary for Hulk hogan to kick the arse of a 60 pound 11 year old parapalegic blind girl.
Fixed. :D
-
What?!
Your allmighty Georgian americanly-trained glorious troops got kicked by numerically inferior untrained Russian drafted soldiers armed by obsolet AKs not allmighty M4s!!!
Better watch news from Iraq right now. Peacemakers my ass!
You must live with a lot of pent up angst. Go ahead, let it all out man. You need the healing. ;)
-
BOOM HEADSHOT!
BOOM HEADSHOT!
shrecking raghead liberal bananas, oops that fool is still moving. Eat hot cannon leftist terrorist scum!
Ironically, Al Queada and their extremist Muslim friends are about as socially conservative as social conservatism gets...
-
I can't be the only one here thoroughly enjoying the fact that a 14 year old just put Boroda in his place. :)
:D
For a 14 yr old, he has quite the head on his shoulders. ;)
-
Why, thank you :)
lol I just noticed that in the picture of the Georgian marksman I posted that he has a cheekrest ducttaped to his SVD :lol
-
I agree with Laser and Hoffman. Unless you've actually been through it, don't dog them. Especially as someone who is, or was, a prospective Air Force airman.
-
I agree, never doubt another individuals pain without 'walking a mile in their shoes'.
Oh, Boroda, to come here just to insult and swagger like some kind of chicken hawk was in very poor taste. Before, I figured we just had differing opinions but now I realize you're just a goosestepping troll with no redeeming qualities, whatsoever.