Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: xtyger on August 19, 2008, 12:58:40 AM
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Hope no one posted on this yet. I was out of town and couldn't log in here with my laptop for some reason.
Anyone see the Mythbusters show on Discovery Channel yesterday night? They wanted to see if it was true (as in the movie Airplane) that a commercial airplane could be piloted by a passenger and landed if they were coached by someone on the ground. This is similar to the thread someone started that went along the line of wondering if ww2 pilots could play this game or us players could do well in real ww2 planes. Remember that recent thread?
Anyway, Mythbuster guys( MG) found that it's never been done with a commercial aircraft. Never happened before, although I remember watching a real thing on TV where a lady's husband died in a Cessna and she was coached down.
So, these guys end up using a NASA aircraft simulator. They're give a scenario and they go at it, not even playing this game before. Both MGs try it and crash the plane pretty quick. One thing I noticed is I had a slight idea of what the main display was and also thought the first guy was going too fast to land (+300mph).
So both the guys try it again. This time they have the experienced trainer coach them and both of them land real well, first time. Pretty impressive. Coach did a great job.
Coach then explained, and demonstrated, how the plane can just about land itself. Most planes are like that nowadays. He just set some dials, punched a few buttons and said that was all someone really needed to do, rather than try and land manually.
Neat stuff. I'd love to try that test blind myself. Wish there was a ww2 plane simulator like that. It made it seem like you were in the real thing.
I couldn't find the show on their web site. Maybe it's not on there yet? www.discovery.com/mythbusters
Keep an eye out and it will probably be aired again. Anybody else see the show?
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Hope no one posted on this yet. I was out of town and couldn't log in here with my laptop for some reason.
Anyone see the Mythbusters show on Discovery Channel yesterday night? They wanted to see if it was true (as in the movie Airplane) that a commercial airplane could be piloted by a passenger and landed if they were coached by someone on the ground. This is similar to the thread someone started that went along the line of wondering if ww2 pilots could play this game or us players could do well in real ww2 planes. Remember that recent thread?
Anyway, Mythbuster guys( MG) found that it's never been done with a commercial aircraft. Never happened before, although I remember watching a real thing on TV where a lady's husband died in a Cessna and she was coached down.
So, these guys end up using a NASA aircraft simulator. They're give a scenario and they go at it, not even playing this game before. Both MGs try it and crash the plane pretty quick. One thing I noticed is I had a slight idea of what the main display was and also thought the first guy was going too fast to land (+300mph).
So both the guys try it again. This time they have the experienced trainer coach them and both of them land real well, first time. Pretty impressive. Coach did a great job.
Coach then explained, and demonstrated, how the plane can just about land itself. Most planes are like that nowadays. He just set some dials, punched a few buttons and said that was all someone really needed to do, rather than try and land manually.
Neat stuff. I'd love to try that test blind myself. Wish there was a ww2 plane simulator like that. It made it seem like you were in the real thing.
I couldn't find the show on their web site. Maybe it's not on there yet? www.discovery.com/mythbusters
Keep an eye out and it will probably be aired again. Anybody else see the show?
I could take an f4u4 up and land it successfully I think pretty easy. It would consist of my knowing the cock-pit little more and feeling it. I already use peddals and a joystick. I think flight training in actual school mostly teaches you the rules and also some of the physics involved its self
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That's actually a rather old episode, I remember watching it a while ago. Pretty cool.
BTW I think the software behind that simulator was Microsoft Flight Simulator. The graphical rendering was, at least.
Mythbusters is a cool show :aok And Karie Byron is really hot :D
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That's actually a rather old episode, I remember watching it a while ago. Pretty cool.
BTW I think the software behind that simulator was Microsoft Flight Simulator. The graphical rendering was, at least.
Mythbusters is a cool show :aok And Karie Byron is really hot :D
Bahh , not close. She's tolerable... id tap it if I were buzzed
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You're either insane or gay.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g316/PurpleLava/06-kari_byron_shark_bikini_radio_be.jpg)
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You're either insane or gay.
Once you been to the top you dont look at the bottom of the barrel
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I could take an f4u4 up and land it successfully I think pretty easy. It would consist of my knowing the cock-pit little more and feeling it. I already use peddals and a joystick. I think flight training in actual school mostly teaches you the rules and also some of the physics involved its self
I was kind of thinking the same thing, but there's some things the game doesn't require, trim is one of them. I don't know if I saw it somewhere, or heard it here, but some old P51 pilot was talking about setting the trim on his plane. He said there were some wheels you had to adjust to set the trim. I got the impression trim was adjusted regularly.
I don't know if they had a default combat trim back then, like they do in this game, but I tried to manually set my trim here a few years ago and nearly crashed the plane. Didn't know the keyboard commands to return to combat trim. I'll never try that again.
There's probably some unpleasant surprises awaiting those of us that would like to try the real thing, but we do learn some stuff here.
Decades ago, I took a meteorology class at a local junior college. The guy that taught that class was also a flight instructor and they had one of those old flight simulators in a nearby room. He let me try it once.
It was a simple thing. A room with black and white landscape figures on all four walls. The simulator sat in the middle and had rudimentary controls like steering wheel, pedals, etc. As you turned the wheel, the plane would pivot, simulating your flight.
I lasted maybe thirty seconds, with the stall buzzer starting soon after I "took off". I crashed.
I think I might have avoided that now, having some experience with AH. Thinking back, I probably took off at too steep and angle and was definitely turning too much. Lost too much E. Not sure if I was using the pedals right, if at all. I'd like to try that old style simulator again to see how I'd do now. Bet I'd last a bit longer and wouldn't be too surprised if I could land it after a few tries.
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You're either insane or gay.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g316/PurpleLava/06-kari_byron_shark_bikini_radio_be.jpg)
i want to push her in :D
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I was kind of thinking the same thing, but there's some things the game doesn't require, trim is one of them. I don't know if I saw it somewhere, or heard it here, but some old P51 pilot was talking about setting the trim on his plane. He said there were some wheels you had to adjust to set the trim. I got the impression trim was adjusted regularly.
I don't know if they had a default combat trim back then, like they do in this game, but I tried to manually set my trim here a few years ago and nearly crashed the plane. Didn't know the keyboard commands to return to combat trim. I'll never try that again.
There's probably some unpleasant surprises awaiting those of us that would like to try the real thing, but we do learn some stuff here.
Decades ago, I took a meteorology class at a local junior college. The guy that taught that class was also a flight instructor and they had one of those old flight simulators in a nearby room. He let me try it once.
It was a simple thing. A room with black and white landscape figures on all four walls. The simulator sat in the middle and had rudimentary controls like steering wheel, pedals, etc. As you turned the wheel, the plane would pivot, simulating your flight.
I lasted maybe thirty seconds, with the stall buzzer starting soon after I "took off". I crashed.
I think I might have avoided that now, having some experience with AH. Thinking back, I probably took off at too steep and angle and was definitely turning too much. Lost too much E. Not sure if I was using the pedals right, if at all. I'd like to try that old style simulator again to see how I'd do now. Bet I'd last a bit longer and wouldn't be too surprised if I could land it after a few tries.
I manually work my trims most flights already. Just need to adjust them according to what your doing. You go options prefs flight turn off auto trim. This enables u to increase you knowledge of planes and how they work which is why i turned them off. So thats no problem for me. As i said in the post , finding them in cockpit would be little difficult tho
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You're either insane or gay.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g316/PurpleLava/06-kari_byron_shark_bikini_radio_be.jpg)
Orange hair = Gross , Small everything.. As i said before ... tolerable
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http://www.c00lstuff.com/1153/Kari_Byron_FHM_photo_shoot_video/
if u think that Kari Byron isnt hot, then u sir are not Human!!!
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No, 'orange' hair is 'gross'!
:rolleyes: :lol
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They didn't call the F4Us Ensign Killers for nothing.
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http://www.c00lstuff.com/1153/Kari_Byron_FHM_photo_shoot_video/
if u think that Kari Byron isnt hot, then u sir are not Human!!!
I'm definitely not human then.
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You don't adjust the trim "constantly." You just adjust it so you don't have to fight with the plane. Center stick should be level straight flight, you just trim it to whatever that may be.
I personally have the feeling that I could land a plane if need be. I've been flying simulators since I was 10 or so, always loved aircraft, no idea why. Anyway, gave me a good idea of what ideal speeds are and the position of controls. Thanks to MSFS's virtual cockpit, I can operate autopilot, gear, flaps, etc. etc. based on location! :rock However, I'm speculating this due to the fact that I've never ACTUALLY flown a 737. However, I do hear that the bigger the plane, the easier it is to fly!
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ok wat if she was blonde? wait no too stupid to be on mythmusters....a brunet? why not? :aok
No matter wat, she is still hot!
alteast from neck to toe she is :devil
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I like her. Not the hottest but more than tolerable. Lusche we all know you have strange taste. Being a non human does that. :) only joking mate.
Regards FBClaw
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As far as flying successfully, cold with no experience in a real life, full-scale simulator... Been There, Done That.
Worked at Boeing several years ago, and had never done any flight sim at all (and I'm not a pilot). Seems at different periods of the year there is alot of unbooked time in the flight sims used to train the airline pilots. Boeing allowed employees to use that sim time (by appointment), and this included an in-cabin instructor and the whole shebang.
In WWII, my father had been a Central Fire Control Engineer in B29's flying over the Hump and later over Japan. So, for his birthday I wangled us both some flight time in the 737 sim. Figured he'd like that and he really did. Best damn present I ever got him. And even thought the Old Man was never a pilot, he seemed to know more about aircraft and flying than the instructor, even correcting him on a couple of slip-ups about the 737 flight controls.
It actually seemed reasonable to me at the time that he should, since the Old Man was a big deal mechanical engineer and project manager for the Austin Co., which designed and built most of Boeing's buildings. It's why we moved to Seattle in 1959.
Anyway, Dad and I flew the 737 simulator all over San Francisco (where the family is from and I was born), including going UNDER the Golden Gate bridge, and later emptying the aircraft's heads (simulated) over my Grandmother's house in San Rafael (he was pissed at her at the time :lol). On return to the virtual airfield, the Old Man told the instructor (politely) to shut up and let him land, and made an almost perfect landing.
Can't say I did quite as good a landing as his, but we made it down on the first approach and any landing you can walkaway from...
However, they did have to make some virtual repairs to one or two hangars, but I figure letting the passengers off via the inflatable ramps directly IN the passenger lounge made up for that.
Don't know if this means I can save the plane if all the flight crew eats the in-flight, tainted fish meal. But I'd give it a good try. :aok
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Lusche we all know you have strange taste.
You have not the faintest idea how right you are... :noid
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I could take an f4u4 up and land it successfully I think pretty easy. It would consist of my knowing the cock-pit little more and feeling it. I already use peddals and a joystick. I think flight training in actual school mostly teaches you the rules and also some of the physics involved its self
actual flight training consists of more air time than anything.
you can not in reality take off or land an f4u. unless you've flown them, or some other high powered aircraft before.
this game seems pretty well modeled, but it is no substitute for the real thing.
in the US, it's a minimum of 40 hours to earn your PPL(i think) and most people seem to average in the ballpark of 55-60 hours.
i think the requirements are tougher in europe.
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You're either insane or gay.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g316/PurpleLava/06-kari_byron_shark_bikini_radio_be.jpg)
or he's too young to know better?
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I was kind of thinking the same thing, but there's some things the game doesn't require, trim is one of them. I don't know if I saw it somewhere, or heard it here, but some old P51 pilot was talking about setting the trim on his plane. He said there were some wheels you had to adjust to set the trim. I got the impression trim was adjusted regularly.
I don't know if they had a default combat trim back then, like they do in this game, but I tried to manually set my trim here a few years ago and nearly crashed the plane. Didn't know the keyboard commands to return to combat trim. I'll never try that again.to the best of my knowledge, they had to constantly re-trim according to the flight conditions, much like you do in a cessna now.
There's probably some unpleasant surprises awaiting those of us that would like to try the real thing, but we do learn some stuff here.
yes, yes there is.
It
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I manually work my trims most flights already. Just need to adjust them according to what your doing. You go options prefs flight turn off auto trim. This enables u to increase you knowledge of planes and how they work which is why i turned them off. So thats no problem for me. As i said in the post , finding them in cockpit would be little difficult tho
can you give us the start-up procedure for the F4u? can you go through the engine out procedure? blindfolded?
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actual flight training consists of more air time than anything.
you can not in reality take off or land an f4u. unless you've flown them
You can see the basic conundrum of this, can't you?
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I grew up at Altus AFB. Dad was a C-5 Flight Engineer Instructor when I got into Junior High. We'd go out to the base on Sundays after church and play in the C-5 Sims. They always did the maintance on Sunday mornings so the techs were usualy wrapping things up about the time we would get in there.
First couple of times I "flew" the C-5 I did pretty good for a 13 year old kid. Of course I had to get cocky about it, so dad went back to the instructor panel, set me up at 15 miles, straight in approach, 3500ft, 240knts indicated. NO problem!!!!! until he turned on some weather, toss in a couple of wind shears, rain, lightning, and a fire on #4 I believe I came in a bit short on that one, by about 3 miles.
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You can see the basic conundrum of this, can't you?
oops.....
shoulda read......"unless you've flown them inreality :aok :D
thanks
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I could take an f4u4 up and land it successfully I think pretty easy. It would consist of my knowing the cock-pit little more and feeling it. I already use peddals and a joystick. I think flight training in actual school mostly teaches you the rules and also some of the physics involved its self
Do you mean in a sim or real life?
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:O :aok
You're either insane or gay.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g316/PurpleLava/06-kari_byron_shark_bikini_radio_be.jpg)
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I could take an f4u4 up and land it successfully I think pretty easy. It would consist of my knowing the cock-pit little more and feeling it. I already use peddals and a joystick. I think flight training in actual school mostly teaches you the rules and also some of the physics involved its self
Now thats funny right there... :rofl
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...later emptying the aircraft's heads (simulated) over my Grandmother's house in San Rafael (he was pissed at her at the time :lol).
:rofl
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As a working commercial pilot, non airline, I have few hours under my belt now but I can safely say I would probably break any airliner I had to take over. Maybe some passengers would walk away. Maybe not. As for the F4U4, the swing on take off would kill me, that or the torque roll it was famous for when you applied go around power. Take my word for it MyMan, you wouldn't survive in any WW2 fighter without a couple of hundred hours flight time behind you. A lot of trained pilots didn't. If AH was too realistic, most of us wouldn't get off the virtual ground.
Coach then explained, and demonstrated, how the plane can just about land itself. Most planes are like that nowadays. He just set some dials, punched a few buttons and said that was all someone really needed to do, rather than try and land manually.
Yes of course, they just land themselves. :lol But which buttons to push, which dials? The learning curve for a non pilot in an airliner would be horrendous. It would be almost as bad for a light aircraft pilot.
One of the problems with MS flight sims and even AH is that it has given the impression that flying is actually 'easy'. I've had that problem with a non pilot in a position of authority. His 'flying experience' in FSX and his general experience around aeroplanes actually led him to to believe he could actually criticise and advise me on aspects of my flying. I haven't come as close to punching anyone in years. He was dead wrong too, not that he apologised or anything when it became clear. He is about to learn to fly. I will get my apology in due course :devil
We nearly had an example of someone taking over an airliner when the crew is incapacitated. On the Helios flight from Cyprus to Greece that depressurised and crashed. One F/A was training to be a pilot and got access to the flight deck all too late, just as the fuel ran out. It made no difference to the final result and that guy could actually fly.
So forget your takeover fantasies, flight sim pilots. All that will happen if you take over is that you will be first to arrive at the scene of the crash. :huh
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All you have to do to be a top notch pilot is spend the night in a Holiday Inn Express.
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:rofl
All you have to do to be a top notch pilot is spend the night in a Holiday Inn Express.
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I cant speak for anyone else here BUT, I like to think that in the given situation of having to be the hero and take over the plane, when the steward.....errr flight attendant asks if I can fly this thing my response would be like Harrison Fords in one of the indiana jones movies "fly YES! land.....ummm no...."
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Mythbusters is a cool show And Karie Byron is really hot
Bahh , not close. She's tolerable... id tap it if I were buzzed
(http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Audiophile/KariByronDemotivationalPoster.jpg)
(http://www.kari-byron.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/74.jpg)
you be the judge
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I give it 9/10 for Photoshopping :rolleyes:
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That's allot of air brushing and one hell of a push up bra, no way she looks that good for real.
On a scale of 1-10 I'd give her a 6.5, maybe a 7
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All you have to do to be a top notch pilot is spend the night in a Holiday Inn Express.
:rofl :rofl :aok
CLEANING MY MONITOR.......AGAIN :rofl
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In the movie Airplane the fellow that landed the plane wasn't a noob he was a ex-fighter pilot. I wouold hate to imagine what would happen if it were left in the hands of my wife to bring the plane down. It wouldn't be in one piece.
Plot
When the flight crew and numerous passengers aboard a commercial jet succumb to food poisoning, it falls to Ted Striker (Robert Hays), a traumatized ex-fighter pilot, to conquer his fear of flying and land the plane quickly and in poor weather, while air traffic controllers led by Steve McCrosky (Lloyd Bridges) and Rex Kramer (Robert Stack) talk him down. Adding to the tension is the presence of Striker's stewardess ex-girlfriend Elaine (Julie Hagerty), and Striker's negative wartime history with Kramer.
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I'm just a private pilot, but I've been lucky enough to learn to fly very different and demanding types of airplanes (C172N,J,R,S, C182Q,T, Maule MT-7, PA27 Aztec, PA18, Robin HR200 and 400, CAP-10B, Zlin Z-50L, Pitts S2B, Sukhoi 29M, Zlin Z326, Z526, Dornier 27, Beech T34 Mentor, Bücker Jungmann BU-131), and if there's one thing I've learned is that you have to approach a new airplane as if you were still a student with 20 hours flying time.
Some of them will forgive you, but others will cause you to groundloop if you just relax for one second on landing.
Having said that, I'd be far more comfortable having to land a highly programmable airliner than a F4U. Even now I believe Cessna is developing a "dead man button" for its Mustang VLJ designed to take the plane to the nearest field and fly a WAAS approach, complete with flare and brakes.
Daniel
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Reading the comments of squeekers who think they have any idea what real flying is like based on an airplane game. Especially a complex high performance airplane.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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newer high performance airplanes such as the 777 would be easier to land in IFR conditions than say the old 707. Same could be said for the Cessna Mustang or the P51.
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I think I'd have a fair chance at handling an A6M2. F4U? You couldn't pay me to step foot in one while it was being towed.
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I think I'd have a fair chance at handling an A6M2. F4U? You couldn't pay me to step foot in one while it was being towed.
you fly real airplanes? do you have any tailwheel time? complex time? high performance time?
without the above, i think you're wrong.
a6m2......900 hp, 4,000# empty
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Even now I believe Cessna is developing a "dead man button" for its Mustang VLJ designed to take the plane to the nearest field and fly a WAAS approach, complete with flare and brakes.
Daniel
You're not likely to find that on an aircraft with the price point of the C-510. That level of a system would require extensive automation including autothrottles and autobrakes. Neither of which will come on the Mustang. There are systems in place as we speak to act as a wing leveler where if you find yourself in a situation that exceeds your ability, the simple wing leveler can take over if activated to keep you prodding along instead of prodding the ground.
I could see it in theory with an airplane equipped with FADEC and brake-by-wire systems. Programming another box and calling it whatever the engineer would like, pilot incapacitation controller or something, which would handle those systems separate from the traditional controls is plausible.
With more and more single pilot jets coming onto the market the odds of an incapacitation are improving but so rare that it most likely doesn't wouldn't justify the cost of such a system and upkeep. Yet one more reason that operating a business jet single pilot is nothing more than being cheap. :furious
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Here's a video you might enjoy. This is how you get a F4U off the ground....
http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/F4U.html (http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/F4U.html)
i'd have soiled myself walking up to the thing.... :D
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Now thats funny right there... :rofl
Yeah it is!
If he ever had the chance He would ground loop the thing in the first 50ft on the take off roll... If he could even start it and taxi it out to the runway.
I can hear it now... "It didn't do this in aces high!" :lol
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Yeah it is!
If he ever had the chance He would ground loop the thing in the first 50ft on the take off roll... If he could even start it and taxi it out to the runway.
I can hear it now... "It didn't do this in aces high!" :lol
I'M STILL WAITING FOR HIM TO COME BACK WITH THE START UP PROCEDURES, and the engine out procedures. :D
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That Zeno video of the F4U engine management was featured here before. I remember the most telling comment from someone, who I paraphrase. 'If AH had accurate engine management on it's aircraft. The virtual countryside would be littered with blown cylinders' :rofl
Cyrano's dead man's button is the Engineer's and Air Traffic Controller's wet dream. Something to replace the pilot. I know my boss would love one. :rolleyes:
There was a time when non pilots thought flying was really complicated. Now we have the opposite. A few hours playing with a computer game and people think they have the right stuff :huh If you happen to watch a couple of experienced airline pilots take a jet load of pax from destination to the other. They make it look easy because between them they have thousands of hours of flying behind them. It really isn't that easy.
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(sarcasm switch on) Huh Uhh. My F-16 Viper I have loaded on my FS2004 is just like the real thing. A real F-16 pilot said so!!! I can fly one no problem!!! (sarcasm switch off)
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That's allot of air brushing and one hell of a push up bra, no way she looks that good for real.
On a scale of 1-10 I'd give her a 6.5, maybe a 7
(http://media.thedaily.com.au/img/photos/2007/10/23/makeup-large_t350.gif)
Using tricks that makes a woman better looking? I'm shocked! I had no idea they did things like that!
I'm sure the eleventy billion dollar a year make up industry doesn't sell to women in in real life.
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beer works too :aok
(http://media.thedaily.com.au/img/photos/2007/10/23/makeup-large_t350.gif)
Using tricks that makes a woman better looking? I'm shocked! I had no idea they did things like that!
I'm sure the eleventy billion dollar a year make up industry doesn't sell to women in in real life.
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(sarcasm switch on) Huh Uhh. My F-16 Viper I have loaded on my FS2004 is just like the real thing. A real F-16 pilot said so!!! I can fly one no problem!!! (sarcasm switch off)
HEY!!! GUESS WHAT???!!!!
a buddy of mine just offered to let me fly his SR71!!!!!!!!!!!!!
he says it's easy!!! just fly the f16 in falcon 4.0 for a week, and i'll be ready!!!!!!!! :rofl :O :rofl
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i recon i could land a plane myself, however that would just be the basics, flaps, gear, brakes etc.... any other controls/buttons might cause issues....
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i recon i could land a plane myself, however that would just be the basics, flaps, gear, brakes etc.... any other controls/buttons might cause issues....
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
STOP IT Your killing me!!!!!!!!! :rofl :rofl Basics he says...... :rofl :rofl :rofl
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
STOP IT Your killing me!!!!!!!!! :rofl :rofl Basics he says...... :rofl :rofl :rofl
what? Ive flown real planes before, its "not that hard"....
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(http://media.thedaily.com.au/img/photos/2007/10/23/makeup-large_t350.gif)
Using tricks that makes a woman better looking? I'm shocked! I had no idea they did things like that!
I'm sure the eleventy billion dollar a year make up industry doesn't sell to women in in real life.
Your before/after images point out a peeve of mine. Something as simple as a smile can completely change the presence. If she was smiling in both pics, you'd probably think.. awe.. she just needs a little makeup and a do.
Even though Kari may not have the Wednesday Babe knockout body, she seems to have one HELL of a personality. Smiles, laughs.. seems to enjoy her job. Somebody that's fun to be around.
True beauty there.
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They didn't call the F4Us Ensign Killers for nothing.
Ensign ELIMINATOR.
Even with SOME training in light aircraft, as well as having flown AH and AW before it, not to mention driving very fast race cars of various types for 25 years or more, I have NO delusions about being able to actually FLY a piston engine fighter. I know about enough to get myself killed, and take out a priceless aircraft in the process. I was talking to Steve Hinton a while back, and he said once you learned to fly in something like a Cessna, you'd probably be ready for a couple of hundred hours in something like an AT-6, and then, MAYBE some dual control time in a real fighter.
Always said if I won a big lottery, I'd like to find a P-38 to have restored. But I also figured I'd buy something entry level like a Cessna (1), get my time and my tickets, sell it, buy a nice Baron (2), and then pick up an AT-6(3). I figure I could transition 1,2,3, and then go get lessons from Hinton or some one like him while they finished restoring my plane. It'd REALLY suck to hit the lottery, get the plane of my dreams, and then kill myself and wreck the plane the first day out.
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..
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I could take an f4u4 up and land it successfully I think pretty easy. It would consist of my knowing the cock-pit little more and feeling it. I already use peddals and a joystick. I think flight training in actual school mostly teaches you the rules and also some of the physics involved its self
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Most regular private pilots would die trying the fly an F4U, a sim hero would quite literally never get it off the runway. If by some miracle he did, he would have made the biggest mistake of his life, what very little there is left of it.
The F4U is probably one of the most difficult single engine aircraft in the world to fly, especially to land. Even most jet pilots couldn't handle an F4U.
A good friend of mine who flew Gulfstream jets was given a chance to take a P51 for a ride. He told me he almost crashed on takeoff, he managed to get around the pattern, scared out of his wits, and never tried something that foolish again.
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i recon i could land a plane myself, however that would just be the basics, flaps, gear, brakes etc.... any other controls/buttons might cause issues....
COULD you then, please describe the landing procedure? start on the downwind leg. assume you're flying a simple airplane.....a cessna172. nothing fancy, simple 160hp lycoming 4 cylinder, fixed prop, fixed gear.
feel free to be as detailed as yo think is necessary
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what? Ive flown real planes before, its "not that hard"....
ok...then my previous question stands, but add a 10kt crossiwind component :D
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Ensign ELIMINATOR.
Even with SOME training in light aircraft, as well as having flown AH and AW before it, not to mention driving very fast race cars of various types for 25 years or more, I have NO delusions about being able to actually FLY a piston engine fighter. I know about enough to get myself killed, and take out a priceless aircraft in the process. I was talking to Steve Hinton a while back, and he said once you learned to fly in something like a Cessna, you'd probably be ready for a couple of hundred hours in something like an AT-6, and then, MAYBE some dual control time in a real fighter.
Always said if I won a big lottery, I'd like to find a P-38 to have restored. But I also figured I'd buy something entry level like a Cessna (1), get my time and my tickets, sell it, buy a nice Baron (2), and then pick up an AT-6(3). I figure I could transition 1,2,3, and then go get lessons from Hinton or some one like him while they finished restoring my plane. It'd REALLY suck to hit the lottery, get the plane of my dreams, and then kill myself and wreck the plane the first day out.
good points. i fly cessna172N, P, A, and B. i also fly cessna 152, have some time in a cherokee six, a little in a super decathalon(back seat), and some time in a schweizer cb300.
i'm fairly average to good for my hours(200 or so), and given the chance to hop into any piston engined fighter, and try to fly it, i'd turn around and walk away.
there is no way that you could just get in one of those magnificant machines and fly it without having first been trained properly.
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what? Ive flown real planes before, its "not that hard"....
How many hours do you have in real planes? I'm guessing not very many.....
It's true that it's not that hard to grab the yoke and point it about the sky. The training and skill comes into play when you're low and slow on approach to land. All it takes is one downdraft on short final or a stiff crosswind gust and and untrained pilot would be yelling for mommy and trying to pull the seat cushion out of his backside.
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COULD you then, please describe the landing procedure? start on the downwind leg. assume you're flying a simple airplane.....a cessna172. nothing fancy, simple 160hp lycoming 4 cylinder, fixed prop, fixed gear.
feel free to be as detailed as yo think is necessary
Feeling better about yourself yet?
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Hey cap. Starting on a right downwind abreast of the middle of the strip at 1000 feet. Fly paralell to the strip past the threshold broadcast a base leg and throttle back. Descend to roughly 500 feet. Broadcast and turn final. throttle back lower flaps and use throttle as necessary to maintain glideslope. I'll assume a 10 knot crosswind from the right. So "weathercock into the wind. Lower the right wing so the wind can't get under it and maintain forward direction with left rudder. When just about to flare kick the rudder back to straighten out for touchdown. Taxi to the parking apron and pull the mixture lever out to kill the motor.
Ok how'd I do ;)
Regards FBClaw
I'm not trained on powered planes btw.
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ok...then my previous question stands, but add a 10kt crossiwind component :D
= crash ;)
and anyway, what is all this fuss about?
Someone who has flown sims for 1000s of hours and/or had some basic flying hrs in a cessna will have a HELL of alot more chance of "helping" than someone that doesnt know how to go up and down in a plane.
at least they know the basics, for instance im sure a high percentage of us simmers would know that you wouldnt want to be landing a 737 at 300KIAS....
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How many hours do you have in real planes? I'm guessing not very many.....
It's true that it's not that hard to grab the yoke and point it about the sky. The training and skill comes into play when you're low and slow on approach to land. All it takes is one downdraft on short final or a stiff crosswind gust and and untrained pilot would be yelling for mommy and trying to pull the seat cushion out of his backside.
just for the record, most wind related landing accidents are with less than 6kt crosswind component
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Feeling better about yourself yet?
should i be?
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as a pilot with several rating and being typed in several different aircraft i have to say i totally agree with the others on the this forum that the sim is nothing like the real thing. I believe sims have there place but not teaching you how to fly, they are for teaching you procedures, checklists, and in the big sims you learn CRM. I think one of the toughest things would be i think jumping into the pilot seat of an unfamiliar airplane is what are all the V speeds, and if you don't know what a V speed is then you are in even bigger trouble than you know. Also what about characteristics of that airplane. Like do you know that if you go below Vmc in a Twin Comanche on 1 engine that it has a real nasty habit of snapping into an unrecoverable flat spin. Now all this being said i think someone who "flys" sims might have a leg up on someone who never has, but the dirty little secret the sim developers never tell you is without proper instruction while in those sims you are probably developing and reinforcing bad habits and techniques.
Rabbit27
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Hey cap. Starting on a right downwind abreast of the middle of the strip at 1000850 ft. most small GA aircraft at non-towered airports fly patterns 850AGL feet. Fly paralell to the strip past the threshold broadcast a base leg and throttle back.reduce throttle abeam of your aimpoint on the runway. as soon as your speed is in the white arc, 10 degrees flaps, trim for descent. this should be happening before you pass the threshold. at approx. 70o ft, and at a 45 degree angle to the threshold, turn base. add another 10 degrees flaps, re-trim. Descend to roughly 500 feet. Broadcast and turn final.throttle should lready be reduced. once below 500 ft, you should be stabalised, and final flaps out, no further configuration changes. you should not have to work the throttle here throttle back lower flaps and use throttle as necessary to maintain glideslope. I'll assume a 10 knot crosswind from the right. So "weathercock into the wind. Lower the right wing so the wind can't get under it and maintain forward direction with left rudder.i'm surprised you know these, but you;re mixin a foward slip with a crab. on final, i crab...actually i let the airplane work for me..it weathervanes all by itself, and the prop thrust keeps me headed where i want to go. when i'm about 200 yards from the threshold, i convert to a foward slip. rudder opposite of the wind, then dip the upwind wing to maintain your heading. now you're set up for the landing. keep the aircraft centered using the aielerons, and the nose straight using the rudder. maintain this attitude til the flare, then lift the nose slightly, keeping everything else centered and lined up. When just about to flare kick the rudder back to straighten out for touchdown. Taxi to the parking apron and pull the mixture lever out to kill the motor. shutdown checklist. electrical, nav, com, etc should be off before engine shutdown.
Ok how'd I do ;)
Regards FBClaw
I'm not trained on powered planes btw.
better than i expected......... :D :aok but i've added corrections within the body of your text.\
like i said, you did much better than i expected. :aokf or that.
the crosswinds throw a lot of experienced pilots off. most average pilots have trouble with anything above 6 or 7 kts. i can do 5-6 comfortably, up to 8 working a bit, and at 10, i'm sweating.
almost forgot..in a cessna, speeds.....downwind=80-90..my preference is 80, initial descent, 75, base and long final, 70, short final 65, cross the threshold at about 55, aircraft stalls at about 46 with 30 degrees flaps out.
WTG sir!
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You're instructor must be very proud. :rofl
Are you the latest rendition of 1CAVd, or whatever his name was?
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You're instructor must be very proud. :rofl
Are you the latest rendition of 1CAVd, or whatever his name was?
nope. i'm me. always have been.
i'm only trying to make a point to those that think landing an airplane is easy. it's actually the single hardest part of flying an airplane, and unless a b24, b17, ju88, and lancs all land easier than a cessna, it's not that realistic in the arenas.
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Trained in gliders. Soloed just before my 17th birthday. Have some nice flights in an old blanik. Been flying with some friends from an aero club near where I live. So yeah.
Regards FBClaw
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heh. well....I've been flying in one form or another since I was 8 years old. (started in Gliders, dad was an instuctor and all our family friends were in the club). My flying experience has been posted here before.
I wouldn't even entertain the thought that I could get a real F4U off the ground without killing myself. It's just not a realistic scenario. I don't have the experience or skill.
Sorry to burst the bubble of any cartoon pilots, but the reality is AH doesn't teach you to fly. It does an admirable job of teaching you about flying, but it won't make you able to land (or take-off) any aircraft without a considerable amount of help from a qualified instructor.
What I do here and what I do "there" are two very different things.
cheers,
RTR
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what? Ive flown real planes before, its "not that hard"....
Warning: British sense of humour alert. Wind up the Yanks! ;)
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I do think AH can cut down training time. It teaches spatial relationships and gives a reasonable understanding of how to corelate what you are seeing outside with what you are doing with the controls.
IE: When you outside view is upside down, the AH pilot has a reasonable understanding of what to do with the controls to get it right side up.
It's a basic form of mental preparation.
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COULD you then, please describe the landing procedure? start on the downwind leg. assume you're flying a simple airplane.....a cessna172. nothing fancy, simple 160hp lycoming 4 cylinder, fixed prop, fixed gear.
feel free to be as detailed as yo think is necessary
PFFFT piece of cake!!! I could take a F4U and land it no problemo!!! stop being so mean!
It's simple really: throttle back, once my speed gets low enough to drop the gear i would <they help slow ya down ya know> I'd proly come in kinda hot cause of
A) the damn vulchers that always seem to pop up ESPECIALLY when im in a perk ride
B) cause I can
C) I'm just so used to it PLUS i look good doing it
Once down throttle back to idle, STAND on the brakes then hit "end flight" then to the o'club for a few beers and count up my perky points.
Why you gotta make it seem like its sooooo hard.
I'm a expeeeerienced "virtual" pilot damnit!! I can do it!!
You supply the F4U <preferably the F4u-4 please> and ill show joos a perfect 3 point landing....I gots skillz!
:rofl :rofl
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I got a little bit of stick time in a Stearman PT-17. Fun stuff, getting to do rolls & loops over the Galveston seawall with dual controls so I couldn't do something crazy like hit the wings eject button. Hadn't been that simultaneously scared & excited in awhile. If I was asked to land it, we would have died. I have no idea how she could even see the runway.
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The ONLY experiance I have with a real plane was my uncles Long-EZ that he built. Went up with him and he let me take the controls for a bit. I had no problem flying the plane, turns, a couple of rolls, clear sky, no other traffic, just going anyplace we wanted to go. He let me make an approach to the field we were flying out of and that's when it got tricky. I just couldn't keep up with the plane even with him coaching me along. I never realized how far ahead a pilot has to be thinking to make the plane do what it's supposed to do and keep it on track for landing. Every time I reacted to what the plane was doing we ended up further off course, above or below glide slope. It was hard. I could probably handle a takeoff (maybe), once in the air and cruising no problem, landing though I wouldn't want to try it for real.
And I'm an accomplished sim pilot. Yeah a PC game can teach you some procedures and if you really get into sims, you might even now what your looking for in the cockpit, but it is different when you have a real plane strapped to your butt.
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I knew I had read this at some point:
http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories/061399/sta_061399031.shtml (http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories/061399/sta_061399031.shtml)
"Moore, 56, said the young pilot had spent only 3 hours in the co-pilot seat on two flights and less than 90 minutes with Moore's desktop flight simulator.
Moore believes the simulator training may have saved the boys' lives."
Here's proof that simulators help! :D :O
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snip
Mythbusters is a cool show :aok And Karie Byron is really hot :D
Yeap :)
(http://www.motifake.com/motivational_posters/cc904eb2f8.jpg)
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i saw it, it was pretty eat. the coach wasnt a trainer, he was an air traffic controller weho had never told anyone how to land from the tower. thought it was pretty neat, i also realized that some of the gauges and displays wer fairly simple to pick out (and understand, from wer you sit watching tv).
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Warning: British sense of humour alert.
British humor always involves men wearing dresses for some reason.
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I do think AH can cut down training time. It teaches spatial relationships and gives a reasonable understanding of how to corelate what you are seeing outside with what you are doing with the controls.
IE: When you outside view is upside down, the AH pilot has a reasonable understanding of what to do with the controls to get it right side up.
It's a basic form of mental preparation.
I agree. When I first started in aerobatics, it took me little time to get used to outside references, since it's the same you do in any flight combat simulator. You just change the enemy plane for the horizon and the runway and off you go :)
Daniel
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Well.. trim on the P-51 is on yer left, dial for the rudder, one for the ailerons, and a wheel for pitch.
You get used to dropping left hand and adjusting what you need in very little time.
(like .. during first climbout .. f'rinstance)
I got a kick outta Lee tellin me 'You will have to *TRIM* thru this manuever' as we setup for a split-S from 8500' agl.
Yassir .. it takes approx 50 lbs of stick pull per G in the Stang. A 4g pull ..well .. you brace both feet on the pedals, both hands on the stick, and PULL .. HARD .. or .. you can drop left hand and crank in trim while keepin wings level for pullout ..then crank out trim as you level and slow down.
Lee informed me I could solo the Mustang with another hour of instruction .. after spendin an hour in it.. my only problem was finding the actual indicator that I needed right when I needed it ... LOL .. altimeter, airspeed, .. stuff like that .. took me a few seconds :)
As for takeoff .. well .. I was hands on .. you crank in 6 degrees of rudder, manifold pressure and rpm smoothly to 55" and 2700 rpm and you really gotta be on the rudder nudgin here an there as she rolls up to rotate speed.. we took off on grass ..Lee said it was a lot easier than pavement ..not as twitchy.
I *loved* 'departing pattern altitude' with a sharp break to right, roll left, and buzzin the field wavin the wings to those below as we left the area. (all well above 500agl of course)
-Frank aka GE
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I have almost 3000 hours of Heavy, Radial Engine Tail dragger time in Beech 18's, AT-6's, DC-3's and a little B-17 time and I can tell you without a doubt that the F4U would kill any pilot without serious HP tail dragger experience before the end of the runway.
PC sim pilot has almost zero chance of getting it started without setting it on fire. Chances are he wold set it on fire and blow a jug starting it and then flip it upside down taxiing out of the chocks.
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Hope no one posted on this yet. I was out of town and couldn't log in here with my laptop for some reason.
Anyone see the Mythbusters show on Discovery Channel yesterday night? They wanted to see if it was true (as in the movie Airplane) that a commercial airplane could be piloted by a passenger and landed if they were coached by someone on the ground. This is similar to the thread someone started that went along the line of wondering if ww2 pilots could play this game or us players could do well in real ww2 planes. Remember that recent thread?
Anyway, Mythbuster guys( MG) found that it's never been done with a commercial aircraft. Never happened before, although I remember watching a real thing on TV where a lady's husband died in a Cessna and she was coached down.
So, these guys end up using a NASA aircraft simulator. They're give a scenario and they go at it, not even playing this game before. Both MGs try it and crash the plane pretty quick. One thing I noticed is I had a slight idea of what the main display was and also thought the first guy was going too fast to land (+300mph).
So both the guys try it again. This time they have the experienced trainer coach them and both of them land real well, first time. Pretty impressive. Coach did a great job.
Coach then explained, and demonstrated, how the plane can just about land itself. Most planes are like that nowadays. He just set some dials, punched a few buttons and said that was all someone really needed to do, rather than try and land manually.
Neat stuff. I'd love to try that test blind myself. Wish there was a ww2 plane simulator like that. It made it seem like you were in the real thing.
I couldn't find the show on their web site. Maybe it's not on there yet? www.discovery.com/mythbusters
Keep an eye out and it will probably be aired again. Anybody else see the show?
Just stumbled accross this. havent seen the movie airplane so I dont know how that was done, but someone with no experience in a passenger jet, will not be able to land it MANUALLY. That is just not possible.
However, some planes are equiped with an autoland equiped autopilot. To guide someone by RT to programm the FMC (flight management computer) to fly a certain pre-programmed route and follow it by an instrument approach and landing (ILS Cat IIIC) is possible. Airport has to be equiped for this aswell though. The person isnt flying the plane, it simply tells the autopilots (yes it must have more autopilots) what to do.
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Just stumbled accross this. havent seen the movie airplane so I dont know how that was done, but someone with no experience in a passenger jet, will not be able to land it MANUALLY. That is just not possible.
However, some planes are equiped with an autoland equiped autopilot. To guide someone by RT to programm the FMC (flight management computer) to fly a certain pre-programmed route and follow it by an instrument approach and landing (ILS Cat IIIC) is possible. Airport has to be equiped for this aswell though. The person isnt flying the plane, it simply tells the autopilots (yes it must have more autopilots) what to do.
How many autopilots you want?
Someone is needed in that cockpit to throw switches for the landing.
But, autolanding is impressive.
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How many autopilots you want?
Someone is needed in that cockpit to throw switches for the landing.
But, autolanding is impressive.
Actually, 3. Normal autopilot operation has 2. If the 2 autopilots parameters are not the same (1 fails), autopilot disengages. For autolanding you need 3 for failsave. Then if one fails, the other 2 override the malfuntional one.
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Just stumbled accross this. havent seen the movie airplane so I dont know how that was done, but someone with no experience in a passenger jet, will not be able to land it MANUALLY. That is just not possible.
However, some planes are equiped with an autoland equiped autopilot. To guide someone by RT to programm the FMC (flight management computer) to fly a certain pre-programmed route and follow it by an instrument approach and landing (ILS Cat IIIC) is possible. Airport has to be equiped for this aswell though. The person isnt flying the plane, it simply tells the autopilots (yes it must have more autopilots) what to do.
most if not all class B airports are equipped with these systems.(at least in the US)
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Actually, 3. Normal autopilot operation has 2. If the 2 autopilots parameters are not the same (1 fails), autopilot disengages. For autolanding you need 3 for failsave. Then if one fails, the other 2 override the malfuntional one.
you still need more than switches. you need to program in the climbrate, cruise altitude,and heading. for autoland, i think you need the airport information set in there, so the computer knows the altitude of the airport. i'm sure there's more than this too.
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Reading the comments of squeekers who think they have any idea what real flying is like based on an airplane game. Especially a complex high performance airplane.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
right with ya.
although i did solo easily at 4 hours, and if i wasn't an idiot i'd have had my ppl at 40 exactly... not saying that flight sims give you experience, but they definitely help, even if its just mental.
(flight sims do NOT prep you for all the regs and radio work however. biggest hurdle for me.)