Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: BaldEagl on August 22, 2008, 12:45:43 AM
-
I've been flying this thing a little bit the past two camps, mostly furballing in it, as I had some pretty decent success in it several months ago. I really like it. It's very manouverable but slow and it also has pretty weak guns.
So anyway, I upped one today and got a kill and a couple of assists (I thought I should have had a kill on a Yak but got the assist instead), then saw a set of B-17's. I took chase because I really wanted to test the Emil's cannons and durability under direct fire. I approached from dead six with less than 50 cannon rounds left and beat one of the 17's up pretty bad but lost a wing. I think if I had a full clip and the right approach angle I could have taken out one of the 17's but probably not more than that.
Has anyone else tried going after 17's/24's in the Emil? How did you do?
-
I love going into the DA with it, shooting off all my cannons, and THEN furballing. :rock
-
You managed to catch a B17 with a 109E? Was he stuck in the mud? :rofl
-
MG-FF are modelled as being little better than .50s as far as hitting power goes. They do maybe 50-60% of the damage a 'normal' 20mm (i.e. Mg-151 or comparable), and maybe 20-30% of a Hizooka.
They also have the ballistics of a watermelon.
-
109E = poorman's Spit 5.
-
109E = poorman's Spit 5.
the 109E is to compare with spit1/hurri1, the spit5 enemy is the F4.
-
"Sheep in wolf's clothing"
Quote by Sodaman's Aircraft Evaluation.
-
A while back I took out 3x B17s in a 109E and still had 24 cannon rounds left afterwards. I didn't really have a super great advantage (remember, 109E we're talking about) but I didn't sit in dead 6 tail chases. They seemed to be going slower than full throttle, so I could overtake them a little better.
P.S. Urchin GREATLY exaggerates the weak power of MG/FF. They are one of the weakest 20mm cannons, but still far more powerful than a 50cal round and are explosive so they set fires nicely if they ladn in the right spot.
-
the seem about par with the a6m2's cannons
-
the seem about par with the a6m2's cannons
It's ironic that you say that, as they're actually exactly based on the same design as the A6M2's cannons.
-
It's ironic that you say that, as they're actually exactly based on the same design as the A6M2's cannons.
That's odd. To me the Emil's cannons seem weaker. I never have problems with the kill shot in the A6M2 but I do in the E-4.
-
"The Type 99 cannon was adapted from the Oerlikon FF by the Imperial Japanese Navy and served as their standard aircraft autocannon during World War II."
Actually, the Type 99 fires a smaller round at a higher velocity than the German MG/FF (which was also based on the Oerlikon FF).
-
"The Type 99 cannon was adapted from the Oerlikon FF by the Imperial Japanese Navy and served as their standard aircraft autocannon during World War II."
Actually, the Type 99 fires a smaller round at a higher velocity than the German MG/FF (which was also based on the Oerlikon FF).
That explains it.
-
Give the 110C-4 a try. It's a lot, lot easier to hit with the low velocity cannon when they're in the nose.
-
The Oerlikon FF (later known as FF-F) used 20x72 cartridges as did the japanese Type 99-1 gun. The japanese Type 99-2 gun was based on the Oerlikon FF-L and both used a 20x101 cartridge. The type 99 guns were probably direct copies or license production of the respective Oerlikon cannons.
The german MG FF was an improved/redesigned version of the FF-F using longer cartridges (20x80). The Bf 109 E-4 used the MF FF/M with the capability to fire the high-capacity explosive Mine shells, those Mine shells were the same projectiles as later used in the MG 151/20 thus the explosive damage of these two should be the same. Only the kinetic energy was lower due to the lower muzzle velocity of the MG FF/M. Bf 109E prior to the E-4 used either 7.92mm machineguns (E-1) or the older MG FF (E-3) with a standard capacity explosive shell.
BTW - the Hispano 20mm cannon was also based on the Oerlikon FF but on the largest of all three, the FF-S with 20x110 cartridges.
-
109E = poorman's Spit 5.
"Poorman's Spit 5" ???
If the guy is in a Spit 5 to begin with, you cant get much more poorer than that. :D
-
Spit V outclasses the 109E4.
Hell, hurr2 outclasses the 109E4. Fire Over Malta illustrated that ALL too well.
The 109E is obsolete compared to any RAF fighter that doesn't have a "Mk.I" in the name, and that's not even getting into modeling issues with some planes, just how it stacks up "as-is"
That said, it is quite fun at times. My squad did a sweep over fighter town one day in them, and I and another 109E covered their egress. I didn't survive, but when I went down had 5 kills and 40 rounds left. Just can't ever disengage!!
:lol
-
... Just can't ever disengage!!
Nope. It's one of those planes like the F4F-4, FM2 and Hurries where once you commit you're committed until you kill them all, die or get help.
-
Fly the F4. End of story.
-
Fly the F4. End of story.
Boring. Try the G6.
- oldman
-
Boring. Try the G6.
- oldman
F4 & G6 does present a nice line in the sand: machine guns on the G6 proporitonate 50 cals while the F4 comes with of 30 cals (sort of).
A bit more VA-Room too in the engine.
Lots to love about both planes.
-
your both wrong. Fly the K4. Problems solved.
:salute
-
Boring. Try the G6.
- oldman
Not at all. If it's boring, set challenges. I love using it in CV battles. Fiddy straight and you can outturn zekes all day.
-
/24's
The trick to downing a 24 quickly in any aircraft is to set an engine alight.
Flying matchsticks, those things.
-
The German fighter pilots would also say just that. A B-24 would burn much easier than a B-17, and "brightly"
-
i like the 109e. it flies well good ina dog fight. i would not use it to intercept bombers. the plane has no punch to bring them down.
-
2x20mm is punch.
-
2x20mm is punch.
If those 20mm's were ballistically any poorer you'd have to be careful not to run into them after firing. ;)
-
If those 20mm's were ballistically any poorer you'd have to be careful not to run into them after firing. ;)
Heh. True enough. Like most early-war planes, you have to get the Emil in to 200 yards or less before you open fire. The MG-FFs work fine then. The 60-round ammo limit is its biggest problem.
- oldman
-
2x20mm is punch.
not enough rounds to bring down a bomber unless your really close or get a lucky shot
-
Boring. Try the G6.
- oldman
G-6 is a man's plane, for sure.
-
Close in to make a hit, and the bomber is dead. Sneak up on an unsuspecting fighter, and it's dead... How does a Spit5 kill a fast maneuvering target anyway, say alone a 109F, or a humble C.202, in which I remember landing 5 kills (some 20 perks) the other day ;)
-
This thread got me to thinking about the E model, so I took it up yesterday and killed me a K4 with it, then a Spit XVI, and finally flamed a Mossquito. I was pinging up a P-47 with the BB's when a Ki-84 killed me. The most fun time, I've had in a long while.
-
This thread got me to thinking about the E model, so I took it up yesterday and killed me a K4 with it, then a Spit XVI, and finally flamed a Mossquito. I was pinging up a P-47 with the BB's when a Ki-84 killed me. The most fun time, I've had in a long while.
Glad to have inspired you. I do love to fly those EW planes (109E, Spit I, Hurri I, Ju-87, D3A, A6M2, F4F-4, etc.) in the LWA's on occasion. I had great fun in a Wildcat a week or so ago.
-
Glad to have inspired you. I do love to fly those EW planes (109E, Spit I, Hurri I, Ju-87, D3A, A6M2, F4F-4, etc.) in the LWA's on occasion. I had great fun in a Wildcat a week or so ago.
Since Rangoon I see a lot more F4F's and A6M2's in cv attacks.
-
BTW - the Hispano 20mm cannon was also based on the Oerlikon FF but on the largest of all three, the FF-S with 20x110 cartridges.
I think it would be more accurate to say that the HS 404 was inspired by the Oerlikon FFS, in the sense of prompting the designer to take a different approach. It used an entirely different operating mechanism which greatly increased the rate of fire, and the ammo wasn't compatible.
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk)
-
I'd also add that the mechanism was able to support higher rates of fire but the earlier models did not have significantly higher ROF. MG-FF 520RPM and Hisso2 about 600 rpm. Although 520 was about as fast as the FF could fire, where as the HissoV could reach 850rpm still significantly better muzzle velocity.
-C+
-
The HS 404 initially fired at 700 rpm but the British slowed it down to 600 to alleviate case crush-up problems.
The big Oerlikon FFS fitted to some mid-1930s French fighters (which fired far more powerful ammo than the MG-FF) was only firing at about 400 rpm when the HS 404 was developed.
By the end of WW2 Oerlikon had speeded-up the FFS to 650 rpm, but it was still only fed by a magazine (and I don't think anyone used it - in an aircraft, anyway). By then the Hispano Mk V was reaching 750 rpm. The fastest production version of the Hispano was the USN's 1950s Mk 12, which was rechambered for a more powerful cartridge. This hit around 1,000 rpm and armed many USN planes of the late 1950s/1960s, including the F8U Crusader.
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk)
-
Well, I managed to kill a Lancaster with the E-4 last night.
I had half my cannon rounds left and flew a sector out to get in an extended fight with a N1K (5 ish minutes). Even though my E-4 owned him, I couldn't connect with the remaining cannon rounds. I tried tracking shots from his close six and various snapshots. I finally ended up running out of cannon rounds, pinging him up with my bb's and calling in a countryman who had been standing by (but staying out of the fight) to finish him off. I got an assist.
I can see I still have work to do with the gunnery in this ride but it's a sweet little turn fighter. The biggest downside is it's lack of roll response at speed, but a bit of rudder helps that out. It's not as bad as the Spit I.
Oh, and as an added bonus I got to watch a P-51D run from me like a schoolgirl before I got into it with the N1K. :rofl
-
Oh, and as an added bonus I got to watch a P-51D run from me like a schoolgirl before I got into it with the N1K. :rofl
I can't wait till they add CR-42 or an I-153 to Aces High. Just so the biplane boys can talk about all the bnz/run-weenies in their new-fangled monoplanes.
-
I can't wait till they add CR-42 or an I-153 to Aces High. Just so the biplane boys can talk about all the bnz/run-weenies in their new-fangled monoplanes.
Don't forget about the Gladiator, or the CR-32. Can't have Malta without 'em.
C'mon Hitech, show some luv for the EW bipes. :D