Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: eagl on August 24, 2008, 09:46:18 PM
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Interesting stuff I've noticed in my transition course from the T-37 to the T-6A Texan II... The plane is basically a lightweight P-51 with a touch more drag and a fat wing.
Power - 1100hp flat rated to 16,000 ft
Weight - 4900lb empty, 6500lb max takeoff
Endurance - approx 4 hrs with reserves
Service ceiling - 31,000 ft (limited by cockpit environment I think)
G limits - -3.5 to +7.0 symmetrical, -1.0 to +4.7 assymetrical
Max speed - 316 kts indicated or .67 mach, whichever comes first
Corner speed at sea level - approx 260 KIAS (at typical mission fuel load remaining)
Time to climb, sea level to 29,000 ft - 12 min
Max range at 31,000 ft and 250 kts TAS - approx 870 miles (with 20 min at 10,000 ft reserve)
On paper, it's a bit like the very early P-51 but with a fat wing. Neat, and it's our primary trainer.
For what it's worth, there are 4 things I don't like about the plane.
1. Single engine (it being a prop isn't as bad IMHO as it only having one engine).
2. Tandem seating instead of side by side.
3. Aircraft systems are overly complex for primary training and a student will not be able to fully internalize the systems by the time they graduate.
4. Technical orders and other publications are still in poor shape after several years of operational use, partly from poor pubs writing and partly from the fact that the plane is complex enough that they keep discovering "new" things from a primary trainer that we expect a student to be able to solo in about a month of training.
I'm hoping that our spec ops folks will buy a weaponized version... Uprate the engine, add some armor, make the wing skins a bit thicker, and add some pylons and this sucker is ready for some low intensity conflict whoop-azz.
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Always wanted to go up in the new Texan II. Looks like a sweet ride.
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Always wanted to go up in the new Texan II. Looks like a sweet ride.
It's supposedly a nice flying plane (my first flight isn't for another week) but it's still not a fighter... Even a T-38 is much more fun. It'll make most untrained people puke, but it's a lot closer to a real fighter than the T-6 (or T-37).
I think I'll enjoy flying it but my initial reaction as a primary flying instructor is mixed. The flying characteristics and basic "ops normal" simplicity are nice, but the underlying systems and emergency procedures are a lot worse than the T-37. Plus I won't be able to see my student's hands so it's going to be harder to tell when he's about to try to kill me or wreck the plane and even harder to stop him from carrying out his murderous plans.
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Are you FAIP in Sheppard/Lackland?
It would be interesting if I stumble into you during my UPT...
T minus 24 days until OTS.
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I'm not a FAIP, but I am an instructor pilot at Sheppard.
If you end up there, drop me a note.
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Sounds like a fun plane. Looks like the Tuc the RAF use.
Just out of interest Eagl, what do you make of this guy claiming to be a Blackhawk pilot: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,243930.msg2984960.html ?
Always unsure about internet claims, usually i find that officers can spell.
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Are you FAIP in Sheppard/Lackland?
It would be interesting if I stumble into you during my UPT...
T minus 24 days until OTS.
You never did answer in that other thread on Georgia.
What are you going to do if you get a fighter and you are ordered to attack Russian aircraft or forces that are <cough>peacekeeping</cough> their way through Georgia or Poland?
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^ That's important, IMO. No reason to dodge the truth.
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I'm hoping that our spec ops folks will buy a weaponized version... Uprate the engine, add some armor, make the wing skins a bit thicker, and add some pylons and this sucker is ready for some low intensity conflict whoop-azz.
As I'm sure you're aware the T6 is a derivation of the PC-9. The Irish Air Corps (IAC) use PC-9M for primary training. But it's also our most capable combat aircraft fitted with pylons for use in CAS (lite ;)). :huh Actually it's our only 'combat' aircraft.
Are USAF trainees screened before meeting the T6? The IAC put their cadets straight into the PC-9 which always seems to me to be a huge step for an ab-initio student and a scary idea for the Instructor. They do start them off with quite a few hours in the simulator though.
I love the idea of learning to fly in an aircraft close to the performance of a WW2 fighter. You compare it to the P51 but surely it would have a comparable performance to some of the early war fighters. Early Spitfires perhaps or the P40?
For the IAC cadets though, at the end of training. There is a big let down. Unless they are streamed to helis. Their first assignment is usually flying a Cessna 172, actually a Reims Rocket just a bigger engined 172. No F16s to step up to. :cry
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I remember back in the 70's, Irish Air Corp flew Vampires. Use to see them from time to time landing out side of Dublin.
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I'm not a FAIP, but I am an instructor pilot at Sheppard.
If you end up there, drop me a note.
Will do.
You never did answer in that other thread on Georgia.
What are you going to do if you get a fighter and you are ordered to attack Russian aircraft or forces that are <cough>peacekeeping</cough> their way through Georgia or Poland?
I didn't see that/those questions since I left after "Internet tough guy" (tm) kept pushing me. I do not reply to insults or attacks.
To answer your own question - refer to "The Airman's Creed", "The Code of Conduct" and "The Oat of Office".
As I'm sure you're aware the T6 is a derivation of the PC-9. The Irish Air Corps (IAC) use PC-9M for primary training. But it's also our most capable combat aircraft fitted with pylons for use in CAS (lite ;)). :huh Actually it's our only 'combat' aircraft.
Are USAF trainees screened before meeting the T6? The IAC put their cadets straight into the PC-9 which always seems to me to be a huge step for an ab-initio student and a scary idea for the Instructor. They do start them off with quite a few hours in the simulator though.
I love the idea of learning to fly in an aircraft close to the performance of a WW2 fighter. You compare it to the P51 but surely it would have a comparable performance to some of the early war fighters. Early Spitfires perhaps or the P40?
For the IAC cadets though, at the end of training. There is a big let down. Unless they are streamed to helis. Their first assignment is usually flying a Cessna 172, actually a Reims Rocket just a bigger engined 172. No F16s to step up to. :cry
Regardless if incoming trainees hold PPL, they are required to complete IFS (Initial Flight School) which utilizes DA-20 (http://www.dossifs.com/aircraft.html)
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WW2 fighter pilots were not required to train with a plane equivalent in performance to a mid war fighter. It seems the folks in charge lost sight of the fact that the idea is to train pilots not wash folks out. Even if the new T6 has a nice zoomie feel to it I think they should have stuck with a non complex bird for basic flight training and stair stepped the curriculum to more complex airframes.
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Thanks Russian, I thought there must be some sort of screening. The poor Air Corps cadets are dropped right in it. Might explain why the last wings ceremony only had two participants. :salute
Firball, indeed they did fly Vampires back in the 70's. It was the nearest they ever got to a jet fighter. I remember seeing them as a kid growing up not too far from the base.
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Sounds like a fun plane. Looks like the Tuc the RAF use.
Just out of interest Eagl, what do you make of this guy claiming to be a Blackhawk pilot: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,243930.msg2984960.html ?
Always unsure about internet claims, usually i find that officers can spell.
Just a squeaker, ignore him
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You never did answer in that other thread on Georgia.
What are you going to do if you get a fighter and you are ordered to attack Russian aircraft or forces that are <cough>peacekeeping</cough> their way through Georgia or Poland?
I didn't see the question, sorry.
In all situations I will comply with the rules of engagement laid out in the ATO/SPINS and ROE briefing, and as ordered by my chain of command and applicable operational control authorities. My personal judgement comes into play primarily when interpreting the ROE in unusual circumstances and if I feel I have been given an illegal order. If the ROE is clear and my orders are legal, my focus is on aggressively carrying out those orders. Sucks to be the guy on the receiving end.
Generating orders and ROE based on NATO commitments, treaty obligations, and NCA directives is not my job.
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Sounds like a fun plane. Looks like the Tuc the RAF use.
Just out of interest Eagl, what do you make of this guy claiming to be a Blackhawk pilot: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,243930.msg2984960.html ?
Always unsure about internet claims, usually i find that officers can spell.
Lots of guys claim stuff. Interesting to make a claim like that without stating rank or unit or whatever...
When I was really active especially with game development alpha and beta testing, it was quite normal for me to have to come up with some proof that I really was an F-15E driver. Knowing the vocabulary (pilot-speak) was part of the picture, but of course Voss and a couple of other fakers proved that talking the talk doesn't mean crap. Plus, some kid created an entire online persona using photos, names, and stories he stole from me and a couple of other real F-15E crews, and that one was very convincing to anyone except for people in the unit he claimed to be in.
It never irritated me to have someone question my identity. I never had an online persona because I have such a cool RL job (heh) and it never bugged me if someone challenged me on my identity. If I cared what they thought (like Andy Hollis when his guys contacted me about the F-15E game) then I provided proof. If I didn't care what they thought, usually someone else who knows me would jump in to set the story straight. Either way, I have tried hard to never demand special treatment based on my job so it doesn't matter if someone doesn't believe something I say about my job.
So... I'll sit this out I think... Nothing he's posted is proof or evidence either way, and he isn't asking for money or special favors yet, so it's not something I care to think too much about. If he really cares to provide proof, all he really has to do is show up at the con with recent photos and any other relevant physical proof. Meeting people face to face has a way of stripping away the internet persona and revealing the truth.
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Eagle,
How does PA / LE react on cameras in aircraft? It would be nice to see video from helmet cam as you startup / taxi / take off / land.
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Cameras are generally not authorized unless there is a good reason for it. There are training videos that have been made for students to watch early on in training, and I assume that there have been PA films made, however I have no info on them.
I think that camera authorization is delegated to the wing commander, and they need to have a very good reason to even consider it.
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That's cool, thanks for the response. Thought i would ask since he has claimed it a couple of times on here. Personally i suspect the '13' in his name relates to his age.
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eagl, I saw a demo flight by a Texan II at an airshow. It was equally as cool to watch as the F15 demo. The pilot was really pushing the Texan around hard, you could see the wings flexing when he'd pull pitch. I talked to the young man after his flight, he told me he loved flying this plane. I bet you enjoy it.
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I'm pretty sure the question was meant for Russian, not you.
I didn't see the question, sorry.
In all situations I will comply with the rules of engagement laid out in the ATO/SPINS and ROE briefing, and as ordered by my chain of command and applicable operational control authorities. My personal judgement comes into play primarily when interpreting the ROE in unusual circumstances and if I feel I have been given an illegal order. If the ROE is clear and my orders are legal, my focus is on aggressively carrying out those orders. Sucks to be the guy on the receiving end.
Generating orders and ROE based on NATO commitments, treaty obligations, and NCA directives is not my job.
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been away from sheperd along time now
just wondering eagl do you get up by amarillo much
about a week or so ago there was an airforce blue, prop job i saw at the v-22 plant
sure was a pretty plane and the guy flying it was really putting it thru the paces
was wandering what it was? almost reminded me of incentive rides back in the old days, tho i had never seen them in that type of ride!maybe i will look it up on the net, unless you could post a pic.?
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I get to Amarillo on occasion. Some good training there and it's a good place to stop for gas when heading up to (for example) Denver or Colorado Springs. It's not too far from Sheppard so in the tweet it would only take us 40 min or so to get there, leaving a good 20-30 min of fuel for practice approaches. The little cafe on the field has good food and the FBO gives pilots a coupon if they buy enough fuel. We generally buy about 200-250 gal of jet-A when we show up, so we always get the coupon :)
There's only one field that doesn't want tweets to drop in anymore, Ardmore Ok. For some reason, every time we call up there to make sure the FBO can handle us, they tell us they're out of fuel as soon as they find out we're military. I think they don't like selling gas at the military contract rate since they know that as soon as one of the airliners show up for a conversion job by one of the local conversion companies on the field, they'll empty their fuel storage tanks at the highest rate they have. So they never seem to have enough gas for us. Add that to the fact that the "blue pig" cafe quit giving us a decent price for lunch, and Ardmore has pretty much dropped off our list of places to go.
Their loss... Every tweet that showed up there bought 250 gal of jet-A and 2 lunches and we'd send a dozen or so tweets there almost every week. Plenty of other places to go that want our business and don't scrape our zaps off the tables and walls, so F-em.
At one place I dropped in at on the way to DM a month ago to deliver a plane to the boneyard, the tower controller asked for a class patch. Those guys like seeing us and you bet I'll go back there to spend some taxpayer $$$ (and get some training while we're at it of course).
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I'm pretty sure the question was meant for Russian, not you.
Ah. Silly me not recognizing the thread hijack :)
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Yep, it was meant for Russian.
I never doubted what you would do.
However, after reading his posts in the thread about the Russian invasion of Georgia I have to admit I was wondering if I'd want him on my wing.
Sorry for the hijack but it was bugging me.
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we got a AT-6 II Texan at my local airport. hope to ride in it one day. as well of te B-17 that flys in every year. i have been inside the "Candy Bomber" of the Berlin Airlift. it was a C-56 i believe. they would drop Hershey bars out of windows on parachutes for the kids.
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Sounds like a fun plane. Looks like the Tuc the RAF use.
Just out of interest Eagl, what do you make of this guy claiming to be a Blackhawk pilot: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,243930.msg2984960.html ?
Always unsure about internet claims, usually i find that officers can spell.
Ok bearkats i realize you are tired and you have school and all that stuff and i apologize if i was a little hot headed last night.. Its my first race, and a first win to top that and i was pumped up.. When the incident between you and me occurred, you were talking about winning, well when you were talking about winning i did not know you were referring to the overall race i thought you meant race #2. You got to understand i come from a military family and I'm in the military so i dont take disrespect from people.. So i will leave it at that! <S> Bearkats and i apologize sir!
Thank you 4440! Im glad to be doing air races! Its alot of fun and i dont want to have to argue or fight with someone the whole season! Im in this for fun and glad to be air racing! <S> All
Thanks alot guys!! Im glad to be racing!! I had alot of fun last night! Even though i DNfluffied on heat 1 and 3 it was still fun! Im looking forward to hopefully running the whole season! Maybe some day i can be like bearkats and bmathis and all you guys!! Wink <S> All
Lol.. Thats what i meant HB!! Thanks for correcting me sir! Wink
Killbox i fly UH-60s in the oregon natioal guard sir.
Thanks guys! Thumbs UP! That just kind of made me mad because i did work hard to learn how to fly and i just dont appreciate being told that i shouldnt have earned it! From now on moray37 is permasquelched to me! rock salute
exactly buzzard! Smiley It takes alot to keep all of that running exactly how its supposed to be! Im not a booky in some lawfirm so i dont have to know how to spell perfect! Again thanks guys for all the support! salute
first of al stegor im not a hero.. Never claim to be and i never will.. And dont worry i already did move along! Im just not going to take any BBS flack from anyone! salute
Hey brad13, when were you at Lowe field? Wink
Ok, guys personally im done with this BS! Im not posting anything else about this subject! Im done. If people are going to turn this into a whole big deal then im done with it! If i offended anyone im sorry and I <S> Them! Im done with this post! Its just turning into way big of an ordeal! Im here to have fun and to be honest i shouldnt have even posted this! I was in the heat of the moment when i posted this and im sorry! <S> Moray37!
I'm still interested to hear which unit(s) for the simple fact I've served with hundreds of helo pilots and have never seen one rant & rave like this. In my experience, they're wayy more mellow. cool
Seems plausible enough...he certainly gave enough detail...
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LOL
Sleep tight Portland. Your oregon air natioal guard is on the job.
(http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/rc/rc2-learning-curve-thomas-and-friends-harold-helicopter.jpg)