Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: cobia38 on August 26, 2008, 05:09:38 PM
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i ran across some neat A-20 airforce photos,thought i would share :aok
first is 4x20mm version with droptank mounted in bombay.
second is cheek mounted gunpods with 6 .50s
3rd and 4th are my fav. rocket asisted take off. allso would be handy for chasing down those who run when the tables turn :devil
some of these would be intresting perk options
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/cobia38/051118-F-1234P-038.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/cobia38/051118-F-1234P-055.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/cobia38/051118-F-1234P-054.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c150/cobia38/051118-F-1234P-058.jpg)
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:aok
The 4 x 20mm got a lot of use in soviet service. My understanding is that a number of the 6 x .50 cal were converted to 4 x 20mm beyond the initial shipments that came with the 20mm option....
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:aok nice pic's
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Way cool man!!! :aok
Need those 20mms's
RC
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Nice!!! :aok
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20mm cannons ShVAK's?
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Christ, don't tell Cobia!
:noid
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The initial US production run was 4 x 20mm (250), almost all of those were sent to the Soviets. After the US converted to the 6 x 50cal layout the Russians converted a portion back to the 20mm configuration using Russian 20mm's...
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So the initial ones would be...cute :D
Almost a mossie ;)
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The initial US production run was 4 x 20mm (250), almost all of those were sent to the Soviets. After the US converted to the 6 x 50cal layout the Russians converted a portion back to the 20mm configuration using Russian 20mm's...
Do ya happen to know what the Ammo capacity was for the 20mm version?
American guns? Russian guns?
And, were they the same guns as IL2?
Woooooeeee, those nasty IL2 guns and 8x500lb'ers...
Mmmm, I'm kinda likin that idea!!!
RC
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it says 20mm, not 23mm
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Oh yeah, thats right, I forgot....
Mmmmm, happy wishful thinking....LOL...
:salute RC
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So the initial ones would be...cute :D
Almost a mossie ;)
I've always thought the 4 x 20mm option would be a great perk option for the A-20 if/when we get the perk ord option....
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IIRC the RAF used them with a ventral pack of 4 x 20mm as intruders/nightfighters.
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The initial US production run was 4 x 20mm (250), almost all of those were sent to the Soviets. After the US converted to the 6 x 50cal layout the Russians converted a portion back to the 20mm configuration using Russian 20mm's...
The top picture is of a P-70, the night fighter variant of the A-20. IIRC, all of the P-70s saw service in the PTO only and were not Land Lease planes. However, that doesn't mean the Soviets didn't field modify some of their Land Lease A-20s with cannons but that picture is definitely of a P-70 Night Fighter.
The P-70 was also the only A-20 variant in the USAAF inventory to have the 20mm cannon weapon package.
ack-ack
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Is that a drop tank, or a radome???
Just never seen it before...
RC
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It was a night-fighter, it's a radome, as most ferry tanks in bombers were entirely in the bomb-bay, (nothing sticking out, and not able to drop).
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It was a night-fighter, it's a radome, as most ferry tanks in bombers were entirely in the bomb-bay, (nothing sticking out, and not able to drop).
wrong its a 375 gln droptank
here is link to site http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=3006
the lendlease A-20g,s to soviets had 20mm package from factory
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IIRC the RAF used them with a ventral pack of 4 x 20mm as intruders/nightfighters.
Hmmm, the Havoc was certainly used as an Intruder - 23 Sqn, 418 Sqn and 605 Sqn had them so far as I know, however I believe they didn't have the cannon. Any number of contacts slipping away damaged after the mgs tickled them.
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Oh wow, sorry I asked...
Didn't mean to cause controversy...
Who cares, Night or day, Brit, Yankee, or Ruskie,
20mm or 50cal.... A20 was a badazz airplane in my book...
RC
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Hmmm, the Havoc was certainly used as an Intruder - 23 Sqn, 418 Sqn and 605 Sqn had them so far as I know, however I believe they didn't have the cannon. Any number of contacts slipping away damaged after the mgs tickled them.
Yup - I have read a book where it mentions them, Terror in the Starboard Seat perhaps?
http://www.rcaf.com/aircraft/bombers/boston/index.php
418 Sqn operated the type from March 1942 until July 1943, when they were replaced by Mosquito aircraft. Later models had their standard armament supplemented with a tray mounted in the belly containing four 20 mm cannon. Bostons were also used to lay smoke screens for the raid at Dieppe in August of 1942.
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/Elevon/baugher_us/a20-05.html
However, many Boston Mk. III aircraft were modified to Turbinlite or intruder configurations. The Boston Mk. III (Intruder) aircraft retained their transparent noses but were painted matte black, equipped with flame-damping exhausts, and fitted with a belly gun pack housing four 20-mm Hispano cannon which supplemented the standard Boston Mk. III armament. These operated from mid-1942 onwards with Nos. 418 (RCAF) and 605 Squadrons. Serials of the DB-7Bs converted to Intruder configuration include W8256, W8262, W8264, W8266, W8268, W8278, W8281, W8283, W8284, W8290, W8292, Z2155, and Z2165. Boston Mk. III aircraft fitted with Turbinlites included W8257, W8265, W8275, W8276, and W8300.
I believe this shows a profile with the ventral pack: -
(http://rcaf.com/kitshop/images/c27.jpg)
And i am sure i have seen a night time photo of a Boston test firing its guns, which includes the ventral pack (it is pretty spectacular).
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Yup - I have read a book where it mentions them, Terror in the Starboard Seat perhaps?
Here it is! Really good read.
http://www.rcaf.com/archives/archives_general/418intruder/index.php
The following is a transcript of a talk given by W/C Russell Bannock DSO, DFC and Bar (RCAF Ret'd) at the Annual CAHS Banquet held 30 May 1981 at the Skyline Hotel near the Toronto International Airport. W/C Bannock, President of Bannock Aerospace Limited, was introduced by F/L Henry 'Hank' Lonaux, who is the 'Hank' occasionally mentioned in the text. We are indebted to CAHS Toronto Chapter member Nick Doran, for this transcript of W/C Bannock's presentation which was prepared from a tape made by Les Wilkinson.
The Bostons were initially armed with four .303 machine guns tucked underneath the nose of the aircraft, and it could also carry up to 2,000 lbs of bombs in various combinations: four 500 pounders, or eight 250 pounders, or a number of cluster bombs. Later, the four .303 machine guns, were replaced by four cannons. It seems, (I wasn't in the Squadron at the time) that there are some of the fellows here, like Mickey Cochrane, who joined the Squadron in those early days, who will tell you that the pilots seemed to have a tough time mastering the Boston at night. Unfortunately, the casualty rate was extremely high during those training days at Debden, and later on, when the Squadron moved to its next base. In addition to starting out in the Intruder role of trying to find enemy air craft at night, the Squadron was told to concentrate on attacking locomotive, and other rail transport. As well as that, the Squadron participated in leaflet dropping raids where propaganda leaflets were dropped all over Germany. I learned, from Mickey Cochrane, that the Squadron even participated in some of those first "Thousand Bomber Raids" that took place in 1942, and were designed to startle Hitler and his Nazis who had claimed that Germany was impenetrable.
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Those are early Boston IIIs, not A-20G Havocs. See the nose and the cheek 30cals and the rear gun position?
Reading an article not too long ago, the US removed the cannons because of reliability issues and constant jamming.
Whether the Soviets put their own cannons in, this would be a field mod. I'm also curious (not having seen so far) how many cannon armed models they used, compared to MG-ships.
P.S. Soviets modded everything. They put 2x 20mm SHVAK and 2x 12.7mm into hurricane Mk.1s and Mk.IIs, rather than use default setups.
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The top picture is of a P-70, the night fighter variant of the A-20. IIRC, all of the P-70s saw service in the PTO only and were not Land Lease planes. However, that doesn't mean the Soviets didn't field modify some of their Land Lease A-20s with cannons but that picture is definitely of a P-70 Night Fighter.
The P-70 was also the only A-20 variant in the USAAF inventory to have the 20mm cannon weapon package.
ack-ack
The initial production run of the A20G was a 4x20mm and was deployed that way. That is well documented down to the serial numbers and production run. Most of those were sent to the Soviets since the USAAF decided to go with the 6 x .50cal load out...
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Those are early Boston IIIs, not A-20G Havocs. See the nose and the cheek 30cals and the rear gun position?
Reading an article not too long ago, the US removed the cannons because of reliability issues and constant jamming.
Whether the Soviets put their own cannons in, this would be a field mod. I'm also curious (not having seen so far) how many cannon armed models they used, compared to MG-ships.
P.S. Soviets modded everything. They put 2x 20mm SHVAK and 2x 12.7mm into hurricane Mk.1s and Mk.IIs, rather than use default setups.
The soviets got the US 20mm x 4 production run...seperate from whatever mods they made to other planes
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Reading an article not too long ago, the US removed the cannons because of reliability issues and constant jamming.
The USAAF never removed the 20mm cannons in the P-70 (night fighter variant of the A-20), they retained them for the entire lifetime of their service.
ack-ack
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first is 4x20mm version with droptank mounted in bombay.
Where do you see 20mm? Those look like 50 cals
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Same aircraft - A-20G-35-DO (S/N 43-9919) 4x.50 cals in the nose
(http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/051118-F-1234P-039.jpg)
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worth reading
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher4/a20.html
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Some high quality scale drawings
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1114844/havoc_plans01-1.gif)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1114844/havoc_plans02.gif)
notice the large belly fuel tank
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1114844/havoc_plans03.gif)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-12/1114844/havoc_plans04.gif)
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Thanks for the information, all. Good thread.
There's a book by a fellow called Doug Alcorn about 418's time on Havocs. He was (IIRC, YMMV) one of two of 418's founding crew to survive.
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(http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Modeling/Douglas/A-20/Leduc/A-20GNF/Diagram.jpg)
(http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Modeling/Douglas/A-20/Leduc/A-20GNF/CannonA20.jpg)
Installed into the bomb bay of this aircraft was a belly set of guns. Two 20 MM Cannon and Two 12.7 MM machine guns. Unlike the packs attached to the RAF Boston III Invader or the P-70, that fired straight ahead these could be swung to fire down as well.
In concert with the four 20 MM Cannon and the two .50 Cal machine guns in the nose this aircraft would have an impressive weight of fire. Some of these aircraft were fitted with radar apparatus, but this one appeared to be under control of the rear gunner/navigator via a periscope arrangement. Perhaps a good part of the initial sighting and aiming (pilot guiding?) was done via two large windows cut into the sides of the fuselage
http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Modeling/Douglas/A-20/Leduc/A-20GNF/index.php
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Christ, don't tell Cobia!
:noid
Cobia, don't tell yourself that you started this thread.
There ya go.
wrngway
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"These are not the droids you are looking for."
:noid
:furious
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the 6 50 are already very deadly against fighters but 4 20 would be rediculus(i like it :devil)
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the 6 50 are already very deadly against fighters but 4 20 would be rediculus(i like it :devil)
The link to the Russian A-20 i posted has 6 x 20mm and 2 x 50cals... :devil