Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: TheBug on August 26, 2008, 10:14:02 PM

Title: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: TheBug on August 26, 2008, 10:14:02 PM
Let's hear 'em, now is the chance to speak up.  Trying to build an arena with a historical flavor, but an ease of playability to keep people coming back.     

Downtimes too short??

Hardness too high?

Etc....??


Seemed to be mostly furballing tonight, so there might not be much input in regards to the capture aspect of the setup.  I really wanted to keep captures limited to concerted efforts, but if they are too difficult I am afraid people won't even try.  I think capture attempts can generate some of the best fights so I do want there to be a desire to attempt them.

Feedback appreciated. <S>

It is a beautiful map though.   :D
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: Anaxogoras on August 26, 2008, 10:37:29 PM
Hmmmm, the allies did a great job placing their rare fighters right next to the furball.  Consequently, they were not rare in the least.  Maybe have a restriction on side CO's about how close they can place their rare fighters to the nearest enemy base.  That way if you want to fly one, you have to ferry it over a significant distance.

But over all I love it! :aok
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: flatiron1 on August 26, 2008, 10:53:36 PM
did they not have spit I in North Africa? Hurri I sure is weak.
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: Damionte on August 26, 2008, 10:55:36 PM
I won't be able to give feedback on the difficulty of taking a base for another couple of days. Neither side has tried it yet.

No they didn't have spit I's in North Africa. The spitfires and hurri's stayed home for the BoB. The spit-V was the first to arrive in that theater.
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: Anaxogoras on August 27, 2008, 12:09:47 AM
Oh yeah, one more thing.  The sideswitching time should be longer than half an hour. :noid
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: Chilli on August 27, 2008, 03:35:43 AM
I loved the hangar hardness for VHs.   :aok  One of my dislikes about base capture, in the past has been the amount of ordinance needed to prepare a base for capture.  Softer hangars are added incintive imho for the proper mixture of fighter and attacker cooperation.

Because of my hours of work, I still miss out on the battle portion and like some others log on to find some air to air combat, but hangar banging is a nice past time until someone is available.  In the off hours, it is important to leave the side change time short (just another side to the side balancing issue).

All in all I had fun. :salute
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: Trukk on August 27, 2008, 05:23:35 AM
I like everything about it, except the huge radar coverage.  We seem to have gone from one extreme to another, where for awhile (back in the early BoA I think) radar was MA style and there was no BarDar which really did make it hard to find the fight, or even tell that there was anything going on at all.  Now on the front line, as soon as you lift you are on radar which pretty much restricts the gameplay to furballing.

MA range radar with BarDar IMO is the right balance.  You can see where the action is and where it's going, but there's enough leeway to encourage realistic missions (which is what I loved about the BoA).

The second thing, which isn't really an issue with the current radar but on the odd time you are out of radar coverage is to set the icons to 3k.
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: Shifty on August 27, 2008, 06:52:16 AM
So far so good Bug
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: TheBug on August 27, 2008, 08:52:24 AM
I like everything about it, except the huge radar coverage.  We seem to have gone from one extreme to another, where for awhile (back in the early BoA I think) radar was MA style and there was no BarDar which really did make it hard to find the fight, or even tell that there was anything going on at all.  Now on the front line, as soon as you lift you are on radar which pretty much restricts the gameplay to furballing.

MA range radar with BarDar IMO is the right balance.  You can see where the action is and where it's going, but there's enough leeway to encourage realistic missions (which is what I loved about the BoA).

The second thing, which isn't really an issue with the current radar but on the odd time you are out of radar coverage is to set the icons to 3k.

I like the reduced icons and at this point am of the opinion that the majority of players do also.  I think the radar may be a bit extreme though.  What is the MA range for radar.  Currently AvA is at 20 miles thinking about chopping that in half to 10 miles.   I was shooting for a MA feel, with a limited plane set, and a need for coordinated strikes to achieve captures.  I have no doubts my first attempt at the settings will need adjustment due to my limited experience.  But knowing what I am shooting for, I look to the AvA players to help me solve this puzzle. <S>
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: TheBug on August 27, 2008, 08:55:18 AM
Oh yeah, one more thing.  The sideswitching time should be longer than half an hour. :noid

People will be people.  :frown:  I am currently trying to overlook any people that may exploit the limited side changing time and focus on allowing the respectable people the opportunity to keep the arena balanced.  Time will tell if I'm a fool or not.   :D


Numbers stayed well balanced last night once things got underway. <S>
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: TheBug on August 27, 2008, 09:15:30 AM
Hmmmm, the allies did a great job placing their rare fighters right next to the furball.  Consequently, they were not rare in the least.  Maybe have a restriction on side CO's about how close they can place their rare fighters to the nearest enemy base.  That way if you want to fly one, you have to ferry it over a significant distance.

But over all I love it! :aok

This one will take a bit more time to feel out.  I like having COs and giving them the opportunity for input and also the opportunity for mistakes to be made.  This player engagement (the COs, the side forums etc..) really helps give the arena some energy.  So back to your point, I don't like the idea of handcuffing too much.  Last night was mostly furballing, which just happened to be in the sector area of the Allied Spitfires.  They did not use this advantage to capture any terrain, so it really didn't have an impact on the arena out side of the furball.  So moving them back only would seem to alter the furball conditions.  I am hoping to have these wars be something more than furballs.  So I would rather see the Spitfire base that happens to be close to the front, get captured.  That would be the risk the Allied CO chose to make.  At this point I still consider it the responsibility of the Axis to not allow the Allies to exploit this advantage.  Currently I am thinking the issue lies more in the hardness, downtime and amount of troops than the placement of rare planes.  But like I said I would like to see this play out a bit more and would like more input/opinions regarding the rare planes.
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: Damionte on August 27, 2008, 10:20:03 AM
I don't like to critique or advise the other side while we're actively fighting. I feel it tips my hand.

What really held off the Axis was their choice of targets and the hardness. You guys spread bombs all over our front line.

Hardness is a factor. Combined with the down times we have. Everything is tougher to kill but it only stays down 30 minutes. With the exception of the extreme front lie in the north where there are a couple bases right on top of each other, it's about a 20 minute flight or drive to get anywhere. So unless you take transports with you on the first strike you're going to find it hard to take a base. Having transports hanging around though means they run the risk of getting shot up. If you don't have them around or they get shot up, then by the time they get back the stuff you blew up will be back active again. Just in time for your initial strike craft to be low on fuel.

At least that is my concern. My craft all have just a 1 hour fuel load. You guys all have 2 hours so I guess that part is less of a concern for you.

As far as attacking those Allied fields in the middle, perhaps you should attack somewhere else. The important craft are there for a reason, it's the easiest place on our side to defend.
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: captain1ma on August 27, 2008, 10:23:03 AM
had a great time last night. didnt try taking base, due to distance to travel. no spawn points. love side switching time for purely ballance reasons. if theres a question, i got killed by my own squaddie several times last night. at this point no complaints.
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: Damionte on August 27, 2008, 11:34:07 AM
I'm not a huge fan of sidebalancing in general. I can understand others love of it though.
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: TheBug on August 27, 2008, 12:25:16 PM
I'm not a huge fan of sidebalancing in general. I can understand others love of it though.

Huh??  I don't follow you, sorry.
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: wojo71 on August 27, 2008, 01:44:42 PM
Thought about a base capture last night,but everybody was having so much fun furballing  I just thought we'd get a feel for the map :salute .d id try a bomber mission it was fun.     :rock

Wojo
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: Damionte on August 27, 2008, 01:49:07 PM
Huh??  I don't follow you, sorry.

I'd rather not elaborate or dwell on the subject. I will breifly though just to give you a chance to understand what I mean.

Let's just say that having people switching in an effort to balance sides messes with tactical decision making. I may make a quick plan of attack based on certain numbers. Then have 5 players switch sides trying to make it a fair fight. There's no such thing as a fair fight. Were it up to me I'd push side switching timers out to like 24 hours or more.
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: TheBug on August 27, 2008, 02:24:17 PM
I understand the concern, but I believe without side switching allowed many nights the AvA will just be dead.


Also Damionte, please feel free to elaborate on any subject.  I want people to speak up and make their point.  I may not always agree with you, but as I said in the beginning this is a community development.  It's not Bug's War, it's Our War. <S>
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: TheBug on August 27, 2008, 02:25:15 PM
MA Bomb site has been enabled and radar range reduced to 10 miles.

Keep the input coming guys! <S>
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: thrila on August 27, 2008, 03:44:50 PM
Just had a peek in the AvA, the map looks fantastic.
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: Virage on August 27, 2008, 03:52:46 PM
I think MA hardness works well.  I think the MOTD has hangers at 2.0?

Great job setting this up Bug.  S!
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: Anaxogoras on August 27, 2008, 04:10:50 PM
I tried some high altitude bombing and the wind makes it tough.  No wonder I was flailing around with the ava bombsite, it's already hard enough as it is with the ma bombsite.

Hangar toughness is out of this world.  I don't forsee closing any airfields or pulling off any field captures unless there is zero opposition or overwhelming force, e.g. 20 guys attacking with <3 defenders.
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: Easyscor on August 27, 2008, 09:09:24 PM
The MA bombsight does NOT allow for wind. The manual (AvA) bombsight does, but you must learn to setup the IP and heading properly. With the MA sight, you must use Kentucky windage, good luck with that.
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: eagleheartone on August 29, 2008, 05:48:36 PM
One thing that seems to be the last to be brought up, and yes I will do it.  Ground attacks, or gv''s seem to always take the short end of the stick during all these battles.  Africa.... always thought the tanks were the main focus of the conflict there.  Well, we have m8's, a jeep, and an m3.  All to well able to be destroyed by a passing fighter.  I don't mind furballing, I do it occasionally, but put the tanks in the the mix.  This will make the CO's use some planning, and SA, and gain the challenge that most people are asking for.  Nothing like setting up a gv raid on a target, start up and here comes one or two fighters and wipe ya out in a few passe's, no it has not happened, but with the set up now....  Africa was a tank war was it not............. lets tank it out, grab some land, and if a pilot wants to grab a heavy fighter, OK he kills 1 or 2 at the most, flies home and re-arms for another round... but with m8's only... he could kill the whole lot of ya.... laughing as he flies away. 

Lets get it on a nice even level here, gv'ers will not attack a base in force with m8's... especially when any plane in here can kill it with little effort. 

Noe do not get me wrong................. ONE helofva.......JOB on the map................  like it ALLOTT!!!!!!!

<SALUTE>

Eagle
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: choppit on August 29, 2008, 05:52:55 PM
One thing that seems to be the last to be brought up, and yes I will do it.  Ground attacks, or gv''s seem to always take the short end of the stick during all these battles.  Africa.... always thought the tanks were the main focus of the conflict there.  Well, we have m8's, a jeep, and an m3.  All to well able to be destroyed by a passing fighter.  I don't mind furballing, I do it occasionally, but put the tanks in the the mix.  This will make the CO's use some planning, and SA, and gain the challenge that most people are asking for.  Nothing like setting up a gv raid on a target, start up and here comes one or two fighters and wipe ya out in a few passe's, no it has not happened, but with the set up now....  Africa was a tank war was it not............. lets tank it out, grab some land, and if a pilot wants to grab a heavy fighter, OK he kills 1 or 2 at the most, flies home and re-arms for another round... but with m8's only... he could kill the whole lot of ya.... laughing as he flies away. 

Lets get it on a nice even level here, gv'ers will not attack a base in force with m8's... especially when any plane in here can kill it with little effort. 

Noe do not get me wrong................. ONE helofva.......JOB on the map................  like it ALLOTT!!!!!!!

<SALUTE>

Eagle
     That is a very valid argument but what gvs will be used without using a substitution? The firefly never served in this theater, the only possibility would be to enable panzers on both sides.
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: TheBug on August 29, 2008, 06:22:47 PM
That was my exact concern, I don't mind adding the firefly as a Sherman sub in the later weeks but initially I thought the M8s would be a good sub for the light tanks of the theater.  But I must confess I am far from a GV guy so I might be a little messed up when it comes to that part of the setup.  I am not opposed to enabling the Panzer for the Axis, but what should it be for the Allies??  T34 sub or just go with the Firefly??
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: Damionte on August 29, 2008, 11:05:43 PM
As Eagle pointed out, I have purposefully not organized GV assaults for that very reason. We don't have anything that can stand up to fighter guns. Plus travel time.

It just takes too long to get the GV's to the targets. Then once there it doesn't take much to knock them out.

Something else we found out this evening. We don't need anythign but transports to take the vehicle bases. The capture is set to need just 1 troop.

Since there are only 2 defensive guns on the VB's two transports can over realm the auto guns and get one trooper in for the capture.

Also to calm down some of the Allies who were griping about this. i am well aware that we can milk run the VB's. I am purposefully trying to take air fields just to see if it can be done with the equipment we have.

It can, but not with just 4-5 people that we generally get to do an attack.
Title: Re: First Night Likes/Dislikes
Post by: E25280 on August 31, 2008, 01:32:34 AM
That was my exact concern, I don't mind adding the firefly as a Sherman sub in the later weeks but initially I thought the M8s would be a good sub for the light tanks of the theater.  But I must confess I am far from a GV guy so I might be a little messed up when it comes to that part of the setup.  I am not opposed to enabling the Panzer for the Axis, but what should it be for the Allies??  T34 sub or just go with the Firefly??
Sub T-34/76.  The short 75mm gun on the early Sherman was virtually identical in hitting power to the Russian 76mm gun.  The Germans had the advantage of longer range guns (especially the 88s) on the flat terrain.  The Firefly will be too much an advantage to the allied side vs. the historic feel you are going for.

The armor was also very similar -- the only unhistoric advantage the T-34 will bestow vs. the M4 is its speed.