Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hornet33 on August 27, 2008, 01:21:33 PM
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So if Gustav follows the predicted path and pumps back up to a Cat 2-3, do you think the folks down in New Orleans will get the heck out of dodge this time around, or will we see Katrina part II?
(http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/storm_graphics/AT07/refresh/AL0708W5+gif/143014W_sm.gif)
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at2.shtml?5day?large#contents (http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at2.shtml?5day?large#contents)
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Probably...some people will never learn. They'll be screaming it's the governments fault again, Bush will get blamed for blowing up the levee's, there will be looting and shooting. I love my state.
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Probably...some people will never learn. They'll be screaming it's the governments fault again, Bush will get blamed for blowing up the levee's, there will be looting and shooting. I love my state.
Does the president have any way to help the people of a possible natural disaster before it hits?
Maybe you need to retrieve your head from Pres. Bush's posterior and realize that he bunged that situation up by not being pro-active with the help. Now, that is not to say that there wasn't blame on the state of louisiana's part as well, but Bush simply did nothing........oh....except vacation. :aok
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I hate to mention this, but...
I've worked in emergency management for 11 years in State of Louisiana. Katrina was a huge screw up on all levels, but it starts at the local level. When and if you ever bother to do research, you'll see, instead you rely on the media for information Skyrock...shame on you.
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Does the president have any way to help the people of a possible natural disaster before it hits?
Maybe you need to retrieve your head from Pres. Bush's posterior and realize that he bunged that situation up by not being pro-active with the help. Now, that is not to say that there wasn't blame on the state of louisiana's part as well, but Bush simply did nothing........oh....except vacation. :aok
Once again, maybe you'll get it THIS time. The FEDERAL government has to be INVITED. And, by the way, MUCH of the Federal help WAS ready to go BEFORE it was asked for.
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Does the president have any way to help the people of a possible natural disaster before it hits?
Maybe you need to retrieve your head from Pres. Bush's posterior and realize that he bunged that situation up by not being pro-active with the help. Now, that is not to say that there wasn't blame on the state of louisiana's part as well, but Bush simply did nothing........oh....except vacation. :aok
The Federal Agencies with a few exceptions such as the Coast Guard are NOT allowed by law to do anything UNTIL the states request federal assistance. The sad truth is that FEMA and a host of other agencies were ready to go before Katrina hit (I know because I had warning orders to go TAD from my Coast Guard command to assist FEMA in setting up communications in the area) 2 days before Katrina made landfall. It took days after it hit before a formal request was ever received at the federal level. The state government failed to be pro-active, not Bush.
But for the sake of argument, had Bush been pro-active and sent in Federal troops, and law enforcement, to take control of the situation before being asked by the state, what do you think people would have said? You know damn well he would have been raked over the coals for violating the states rights, and over exceeding his powers as President.
The only fault in that situation was at the local and state government level. As soon as the federal request was sent, the Feds were on the way ready to go to work. We hit the ground running once we were finally asked to show up.
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Hello moto. -Tune starts playing on iphone.-
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George Boooosh hates Black Peepoe.
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The majority of the situation still boils down to personal responsibility. It's your own dang fault if you stay in the way and expect other people to get you out.
Back on topic, that looks like one heck of a storm.
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The majority of the situation still boils down to personal responsibility. It's your own dang fault if you stay in the way and expect other people to get you out.
Back on topic, that looks like one heck of a storm.
If you are dirt poor and have no relatives outside the danger zone just where exactly does one go and how do they get there?
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Katrina part II??? Hell, most of the NOLA's are still in Houston.
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I hope it hits hard...in a way (I'm in Tennessee in need of rain :D) but i do NOT want another Katrina
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as not all of the slums were rebuild in NO, there will be less of an issue if they need to evacuate again....
(http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images2/KatrinaBuses2.jpg)
there will be plenty of room on the buses if the local government acts properly and actually uses them this time.
I think LA is in much better hands these days and by default so is NO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jindal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jindal)
depending on high pressure east of here, if it weakens the cane might swing more east then I'd want to see
and to blame Bush for Katrina damage is right up there with the CIA staging 9/11 .. does wonders for ones credibility
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oh i hope not, my grandfather lives in New Orleans. his house was demolished during Katrina and he (stupidly) rebuilt his house. he real scared that it iwll happen agian. pray that it doesn;t :pray :frown:
(http://)
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I hate to mention this, but...
I've worked in emergency management for 11 years in State of Louisiana. Katrina was a huge screw up on all levels, but it starts at the local level. When and if you ever bother to do research, you'll see, instead you rely on the media for information Skyrock...shame on you.
I rely on a president to lead, in this case, he did not. He did nothing.
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I rely on a president to lead, in this case, he did not. He did nothing.
The real question is; Where was Mr Choclate City and the Governor of LA. ????
States have Governors & Cities have Mayors for a reason. The FACT is that the two people who should have taken charge, didn’t.
And don’t get me started on the levies… ok I will LOL!... The levies where known to be unstable if a Cat 2 or stronger where to hit the New Orleans area and that the city would be under water. This was known for over 30 years if not longer.
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If you are dirt poor and have no relatives outside the danger zone just where exactly does one go and how do they get there?
Kinda depends on their swimming skills, doncha think?
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The real question is; Where was Mr Choclate City and the Governor of LA. ????
States have Governors & Cities have Mayors for a reason. The FACT is that the two people who should have taken charge, didn’t.
And don’t get me started on the levies… ok I will LOL!... The levies where known to be unstable if a Cat 2 or stronger where to hit the New Orleans area and that the city would be under water. This was known for over 30 years if not longer.
welllll now lets see........
they bought homes below sea level. below sea level witgh the knowledge that a good storm could break the levies. it's no one's fault but their own.
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That is why I added the last paragraph.
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I rely on a president to lead, in this case, he did not. He did nothing.
What part of he could not act without the proper authorization don't you get? I bet you were just mesmerized by the hippo in an orange pant suit last night, weren't you?
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Kinda depends on their swimming skills, doncha think?
I suppose so.
I have to point out though that this kind of *problem* is not limited to New Orleans. The whole Gulf Coast and southern East Coast is like a big trailer park sitting in tornado alley.
You Americans just never learn.
How many devastating hurricanes have hit the aforementioned regions of the US? How many times have people built the same houses or buildings on the same land and time after time been hammered?
Probably hundreds if you go back to say...1895?
We got hit by two on one day back in 1712.
Since then we got our act together.
http://www.theroyalgazette.com/siftology.royalgazette/Article/article.jsp?articleId=7d67a0f3003002c§ionId=49
"Information and historical records on hurricanes prior to 1895 are scarce, but there is a record dating from 1712 when the first of two severe hurricanes hit the Island on September 8.
Many of Bermuda’s historical buildings, including St. Peter’s Church in St. George’s, were damaged.
Since Bermuda’s first settlers had built almost everything out of cedar wood, including commercial buildings and churches, many were destroyed.
It was as a direct result of these hurricanes that the decision was taken to construct buildings from limestone, as opposed to wood and thus withstand hurricanes better.
New construction methods were developed to cut stone from hillsides to create solid limestone buildings of which many still exist."
Every home here is like a hurricane shelter in the US. Every building too.
Fabian hit us and was as bad as Katrina but bigger. If it wasn't a Saturday I would have gone to work the next day.
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LMAO, u Bushies are a hoot! Bush will go down in history as the most moronic president ever, and u guys cant let go of his ankle long enuff to see his foot in your arse. :rofl
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LMAO, u Bushies are a hoot! Bush will go down in history as the most moronic president ever, and u guys cant let go of his ankle long enuff to see his foot in your arse. :rofl
I've NEVER claimed to be a fan of Bush. I'd say the same thing if it was Clinton in the white house. The President does NOT have the authority to provide federal assistance UNTILL the local and state governments request that assistance.
So what was he supposed to do? Wait don't tell me "He could have done something!!" Well no he couldn't. The Mayor of NO could have, and the Gov. of LA could have but those two decided to sit on their butts for 4 days while the people they were elected to represent and protect were dying.
The fault for the crappy response lies squarly on the local and state officials that did nothing.
LMAO you anti Bushies are a hoot. You can't remove your heads from your own tulips long enough to know what a president can and can't do, and you'll go down in history as the most moronic group of people ever.
See I can do it too.
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LMAO, u Bushies are a hoot! Bush will go down in history as the most moronic president ever, and u guys cant let go of his ankle long enuff to see his foot in your arse. :rofl
Note that THIS time, Bobby Jindal has declared a state of emergency, in advance of a possible hurricane. Note that neither NO or LA has followed suit. Now, if nothing happens, Jindal will be accused of being an alarmist. If a hurricane hits the region, Jindal will get no credit for advance preparation, but the Feds will be criticized for their lack of response, except for where Jindal got ready. And it won't be the fault of the mayors or governors who do not get ready.
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This just in: The governor of LA, following the lead of Bobby Jindal, has declared a state of emergency.
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I've NEVER claimed to be a fan of Bush. I'd say the same thing if it was Clinton in the white house. The President does NOT have the authority to provide federal assistance UNTILL the local and state governments request that assistance.
So what was he supposed to do? Wait don't tell me "He could have done something!!" Well no he couldn't. The Mayor of NO could have, and the Gov. of LA could have but those two decided to sit on their butts for 4 days while the people they were elected to represent and protect were dying.
The fault for the crappy response lies squarly on the local and state officials that did nothing.
LMAO you anti Bushies are a hoot. You can't remove your heads from your own tulips long enough to know what a president can and can't do, and you'll go down in history as the most moronic group of people ever.
See I can do it too.
:aok
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I've NEVER claimed to be a fan of Bush. I'd say the same thing if it was Clinton in the white house. The President does NOT have the authority to provide federal assistance UNTILL the local and state governments request that assistance.
So what was he supposed to do? Wait don't tell me "He could have done something!!" Well no he couldn't. The Mayor of NO could have, and the Gov. of LA could have but those two decided to sit on their butts for 4 days while the people they were elected to represent and protect were dying.
The fault for the crappy response lies squarly on the local and state officials that did nothing.
LMAO you anti Bushies are a hoot. You can't remove your heads from your own tulips long enough to know what a president can and can't do, and you'll go down in history as the most moronic group of people ever.
See I can do it too.
:rofl
I garuntee any other president in history would have had troops on the ground in force within 24 hours of landfall.
National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.),
:aok
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:rofl
I garuntee any other president in history would have had troops on the ground in force within 24 hours of landfall.
National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.),
:aok
Katrina wasn't a national emergency, it was a local emergency.
Btw....its guarantee.....not garuntee..... :devil
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Apparently the National Emergencies Act isn't in effect just to allow Emergencies to be declared or to allow the President to act as Skyrock's post implies but to limit executive power and force formal declarations of said emergencies and which emergency powers are to be invoked.
The National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601-1651) is a United States federal law passed in 1976 to stop open-ended states of national emergency and formalize Congressional checks and balances on Presidential emergency powers. The act sets a limit of two years on states of national emergency. It also imposes certain "procedural formalities" on the President when invoking such powers, and provides a means for Congress to countermand a Presidential declaration of emergency and associated use of emergency powers.
The perceived need for the law arose from the scope and number of laws granting special powers to the Executive in times of national emergency (or public danger). At least two Constitutional protections are subject to revocation during a state of emergency:
* The right of habeas corpus, under Article 1, Section 9;
* The right to a Grand Jury for members of the National Guard when in actual service, under 5th Amendment of the Bill of Rights.
In addition, many provisions of statutory law -- as many as 500 by one count (ref. 1) -- are contingent on a state of national emergency.
It was due in part to concern that a declaration of "emergency" for one purpose should not invoke every possible executive emergency power that Congress in 1976 passed the National Emergencies Act. Among other provisions, this act requires the President to declare formally a national emergency and to specify the statutory authorities to be used under such a declaration.
There were 32 declared national emergencies between 1976 and 2001. (Ref. 3) Most of these were for the purpose of restricting trade with certain foreign entities under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) (50 U.S.C. 1701-1707). A notable exception was the "Declaration of National Emergency by Reason Of Certain Terrorist Attacks" by President George W. Bush (September 14, 2001), which cited nine specific authorities related to military personnel matters, such as calling up of reserves and exceeding strength limits. Contrary to concerns expressed at the time (e.g., Ref. 1), this declaration has not been cited as supporting any other emergency powers, although different arguments have been made for other emergency powers for which no declaration of emergency was ever made public under the National Emergencies Act: see NSA warrantless surveillance controversy.
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Btw....its guarantee.....not garuntee..... :devil
A Cajun would say it just like he spelled it. ;)
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A Cajun would say it just like he spelled it. ;)
I could be mistaken, but I don't think Skyrock is Cajun. ;)
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I know.. that's why it cracked me up. I mean... what're the odds? hehehhhee
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He's a teacher too....so I had to give him crap for misspelling it. :devil
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Anyone know how long gasoline would still be good in storage? I have some that is about 4 years old with the preservative in it. Only gave it one preservative treatment and that was about 3 years ago. It runs a lawnmower but was wondering if it could damage a generator if I used it. Or should I dump it and buy fresh gas if it looks bad for a hurricane? Lawnmower man said it was red colored and old gas. To me it looks blue-green when pouring from the can.
Les
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Katrina wasn't a national emergency, it was a local emergency.
Btw....its guarantee.....not garuntee..... :devil
it wasnt a national emergency? More people died in Katrina than in 9/11. Therein lies the difference in our views on this topic. :aok
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it wasnt a national emergency? More people died in Katrina than in 9/11. Therein lies the difference in our views on this topic. :aok
Katrina didn't cause an emergency anywhere on the west coast, nor did it cause an emergency anywhere north of Louisiana or east of Mississippi. With that in mind, just how was it a national emergency and not a localized emergency?
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it wasnt a national emergency? More people died in Katrina than in 9/11. Therein lies the difference in our views on this topic. :aok
(http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/images/troll.jpg)
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Sweet, I was going to update the map again this morning and low and behold, the map I posted to start this thread will update every time NOAA and the Hurricane Forcast Center issue an update. :aok That's pretty cool.
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Sweet, I was going to update the map again this morning and low and behold, the map I posted to start this thread will update every time NOAA and the Hurricane Forcast Center issue an update. :aok That's pretty cool.
That is very kewl, NOAA been on me favorites since I had a comp! :aok
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Taking no chances, city officials began preliminary planning to evacuate and lock down the city in hopes of avoiding the catastrophe that followed Katrina in 2005.
New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin left the Democratic National Convention in Denver to return home for the preparations. Gov. Bobby Jindal declared a state of emergency to lay the groundwork for federal assistance, and put 3,000 National Guard troops on standby.
This is were they failed last time, but it's good to see they learned their lesson and are being proactive this time around. Seems like Gov Jindal has his head screwed on straight.
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Taking no chances, city officials began preliminary planning to evacuate and lock down the city in hopes of avoiding the catastrophe that followed Katrina in 2005.
New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin left the Democratic National Convention in Denver to return home for the preparations. Gov. Bobby Jindal declared a state of emergency to lay the groundwork for federal assistance, and put 3,000 National Guard troops on standby.
This is were they failed last time, but it's good to see they learned their lesson and are being proactive this time around. Seems like Gov Jindal has his head screwed on straight.
I never said they didnt fail, but you guys are making it sound like the presidents hands were tied which is not the case. He is the big dog. He could have cut through the red tape and made it happen. Instead, he dodged responsibilty and lied afterwards about not being warned about the levees breaking and such:
In dramatic and sometimes agonizing terms, federal disaster officials warned President Bush and his homeland security chief before Hurricane Katrina struck that the storm could breach levees, put lives at risk in New Orleans’ Superdome and overwhelm rescuers. Bush didn’t ask a single question during the final briefing before Katrina struck on Aug. 29, but he assured soon-to-be-battered state officials: “We are fully prepared.”
Bush declared four days after the storm, “I don’t think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees” that gushed deadly floodwaters into New Orleans.
The findings:
"A Failure of Initiative," it is one of three separate reviews by the House, Senate and White House.
The 600-plus-page report lays primary fault with the passive reaction and misjudgments of top Bush aides, singling out Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, the Homeland Security Operations Center and the White House Homeland Security Council, according to a 60-page summary of the document obtained by The Washington Post. Regarding Bush, the report found that "earlier presidential involvement could have speeded the response" because he alone could have cut through all bureaucratic resistance.
The report, produced by an 11-member House select committee of Republicans chaired by Rep. Thomas M. Davis III (R-Va.), proposes few specific changes. But it is an unusual compendium of criticism by the House GOP, which generally has not been aggressive in its oversight of the administration.
The report portrays Chertoff, who took the helm of the department six months before the storm, as detached from events. It contends he switched on the government's emergency response systems "late, ineffectively or not at all," delaying the flow of federal troops and materiel by as much as three days.
The White House did not fully engage the president or "substantiate, analyze and act on the information at its disposal," failing to confirm the collapse of New Orleans's levee system on Aug. 29, the day of Katrina's landfall, which led to catastrophic flooding of the city of 500,000 people.
On the ground, Federal Emergency Management Agency director Michael D. Brown, who has since resigned, FEMA field commanders and the U.S. military's commanding general set up rival chains of command. The Coast Guard, which alone rescued nearly half of 75,000 people stranded in New Orleans, flew nine helicopters and two airplanes over the city that first day, but eyewitness reconnaissance did not reach official Washington before midnight.
At the same time, weaknesses identified by Sept. 11 investigators -- poor communications among first responders, a shortage of qualified emergency personnel and lack of training and funding -- doomed a response confronted by overwhelming demands for help.
"If 9/11 was a failure of imagination then Katrina was a failure of initiative. It was a failure of leadership," the report's preface states. "In this instance, blinding lack of situational awareness and disjointed decision making needlessly compounded and prolonged Katrina's horror."
Needless to say, I believe Bush, Chertoff, Brown, Nagan, and Blanco all should have been flogged for their failure of leadership.
:aok
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I agree with everything you just said. EVERYONE screwed the pooch on that one, but it gets irritating when EVERYONE wants to put the blame on one man who can only act on the information he is given. The President (and I don't care who the President is) is not all knowing, all seeing, and does not have the magic crystal ball that will tell him in advance what "He should have known". As was stated in the report, communications were poor and information was late in arriving to the people who needed it. So what do they do in the mean time? They wait for information. In that case waiting cost allot of lives, but they couldn't have known it was going to be that bad in advance. NO ONE thought it would be as bad as it was and when the info finally started to come out EVERYONE had to REACT to what had already happened. At that point what he "should have done, could have done, why didn't they knw this or that" is all hind site and DOESN'T matter anymore. What if's, why nots, and should haves are nothing more than armchair quarter backing after the play is OVER by people who have NEVER even played the game.
What's sad is that in this country most of the time we're more worried about "who to blame" instead of let's learn from this so it doesn't happen again. From the looks of it though, plenty of people did learn and are taking more appropriate steps this time to minimize the impact IF it hits, and that's actually kinda of encouraging. The local, state, and federal governments are demonstrating that they have learned a harsh lesson, and are going to be better prepared.
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What's sad is that in this country most of the time we're more worried about "who to blame" instead of let's learn from this so it doesn't happen again.
Indeed it is sad and we see it all the time on this board and in the media....point the finger, find out who to blame instead of, as you pointed out, how do we learn from this? How do we do better next time?
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Are they going to rename the Hurricane "Shanequa" or not?
RTR
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"Katrina didn't cause an emergency anywhere on the west coast, nor did it cause an emergency anywhere north of Louisiana or east of Mississippi."
A couple of facts:
Katrina caused damage from South-Central Louisiana to Panama City (That's in Florida).
Rita which came on her heels and just compounded the misery affected Southwest La. and The Texas Coast as far as Galveston.
As a result of the M.R.G.O. shutdown gas prices spiked as high as $6/Gal. in Ga.
The port of New Orleans (arguably the most significant deep water port in North America) shut down.
The port of Mobile shut down.
Not to mention the effect it had on those with family, friends or capitol investments in the affected area.
Cajuns pronounce Guaranty, Ghorrawntee.
A couple of assertions:
The diaspora of hurricane zone refugees caused increased crime, and a general malaise overall in the various cities around the country where they were settled.
The storms set domestic oil production and exploration back a couple of years.
Fema's presence caused more harm than good. Along with the drain in resources suffered by the myriad aid agencies that could have been applied elsewhere.
Ray Nagin survived.
Looks like a national catastrophe to me.
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Anyone know how long gasoline would still be good in storage? I have some that is about 4 years old with the preservative in it. Only gave it one preservative treatment and that was about 3 years ago. It runs a lawnmower but was wondering if it could damage a generator if I used it. Or should I dump it and buy fresh gas if it looks bad for a hurricane? Lawnmower man said it was red colored and old gas. To me it looks blue-green when pouring from the can.
Les
The fuel stabilizer I use says it keeps gas good for 12 months, 2 years if you double the recommended treatment. I used some old gas in my lawnmower and it quit running.
In a survival situation, I'd make sure your fuel supply is fresh. Just my two cents.
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author=Hornet33 link=topic=245420.msg3002690#msg3002690 date=1219938840]
The President is not all knowing, all seeing, and does not have the magic crystal ball that will tell him in advance what "He should have known".
Well, actually, he was given the info about the levees on the 28th. and he did actually take blame: "To the extent the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility," Bush said. He was definitely told that the levees would probably not hold this type of storm, before it made landfall.
author=Hornet33 link=topic=245420.msg3002690#msg3002690 date=1219938840]
What's sad is that in this country most of the time we're more worried about "who to blame" instead of let's learn from this so it doesn't happen again. From the looks of it though, plenty of people did learn and are taking more appropriate steps this time to minimize the impact IF it hits, and that's actually kinda of encouraging. The local, state, and federal governments are demonstrating that they have learned a harsh lesson, and are going to be better prepared.
I completely agree with this. I would rather see more preparation and planning for this type of disaster than not. :aok
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Well, actually, he was given the info about the levees on the 28th. and he did actually take blame: "To the extent the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility," Bush said. He was definitely told that the levees would probably not hold this type of storm, before it made landfall.
I completely agree with this. I would rather see more preparation and planning for this type of disaster than not. :aok
I guess my definitions of blame and responsibility are different from yours because I've always thought they were two different things.
As far as him being told before the storm hit about the levees probably not being able to withstand that storm, so was EVERY person living there. Was he supposed to personally go down there and stick his finger in the levee to keep it from failing?
That's what irritates me is the attitude that people have about that entire situation. They come across like he should have personaly been there the entire time fixing evey little problem that came up, and when those problems weren't solved immediately "It's all Bush's fault". The fact is he held allot of people accountable after that storm for their failures and a bunch of people got canned because of them. He's the President, not Superman and it's unfair to place all the blame on his head.
It makes as much sense for me to blame you for the levees failing because you knew they probably wouldn't withstand the storm and you did nothing to prevent it. Doesn't make much sense huh? You know why? It's not your job, just like it's not Bush's job. It is the Army Corp of Engineers job though, and for years they tried to do their job, but they need funds to do it, and guess who controls the money? Not Bush, but Congress. They withheld funds from the Corp of Engineers to fix the levees years ago, and spent that money on other things they thought were more important, and that's was going on long before Bush became President.
There was a failure at so many levels of the government that contributed to those levees failing. Bush took responsibility for the failing of the government as a whole, because he is the President, and that's what he was supposed to do, but you can't blame him for something that was beyond his personal control.
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Did I mention that the levies where known to Fail for over 30 years, if a Cat 2 would hit New Orleans?
I lived there when I was a kid and it was a known Fact. There were many Presidents, Governors, & Mayors who could have fixed this.
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Apparently the National Emergencies Act isn't in effect just to allow Emergencies to be declared or to allow the President to act as Skyrock's post implies but to limit executive power and force formal declarations of said emergencies and which emergency powers are to be invoked.
Don't you know better than to shine light on the truth to a Micheal Mooreron? :lol
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Don't you know better than to shine light on the truth to a Micheal Mooreron? :lol
that act also ensures that the president has the power to do so as well. :aok
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George Boooosh hates Black Peepoe.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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that act also ensures that the president has the power to do so as well. :aok
Not from what I read, it is a limitation on his power, not an enabler.
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Not from what I read, it is a limitation on his power, not an enabler.
re-read...or better yet, look and see why it was legislated. :aok I hope I posted the right one lolz
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now we have this presidental power as well "National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive
NATIONAL SECURITY PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVE/NSPD 51
HOMELAND SECURITY PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVE/HSPD-20
Subject: National Continuity Policy
Purpose
(1) This directive establishes a comprehensive national policy on the continuity of Federal Government structures and operations and a single National Continuity Coordinator responsible for coordinating the development and implementation of Federal continuity policies. This policy establishes "National Essential Functions," prescribes continuity requirements for all executive departments and agencies, and provides guidance for State, local, territorial, and tribal governments, and private sector organizations in order to ensure a comprehensive and integrated national continuity program that will enhance the credibility of our national security posture and enable a more rapid and effective response to and recovery from a national emergency.
Definitions
(2) In this directive:
2b (b) "Catastrophic Emergency" means any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions;
I'd say a major hurricaine with 10,000 deaths might fall under section 2b. :aok
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WOOT! katrina part 2! lol this is going to be good...... :noid
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re-read...or better yet, look and see why it was legislated. :aok I hope I posted the right legislator lolz
From my earlier post, it gives the basic reasons for the Act.
The perceived need for the law arose from the scope and number of laws granting special powers to the Executive in times of national emergency (or public danger). At least two Constitutional protections are subject to revocation during a state of emergency:
* The right of habeas corpus, under Article 1, Section 9;
* The right to a Grand Jury for members of the National Guard when in actual service, under 5th Amendment of the Bill of Rights.
In addition, many provisions of statutory law -- as many as 500 by one count (ref. 1) -- are contingent on a state of national emergency.
It was due in part to concern that a declaration of "emergency" for one purpose should not invoke every possible executive emergency power that Congress in 1976 passed the National Emergencies Act. Among other provisions, this act requires the President to declare formally a national emergency and to specify the statutory authorities to be used under such a declaration.
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From my earlier post, it gives the basic reasons for the Act.
yeah, I may have posted wrong law there, sorry. Do you think Bush should have been more pro-active about Katrina? Or, do you think he did everything he could to help those people?
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Do you think Bush should have been more pro-active about Katrina? Or, do you think he did everything he could to help those people?
At this point.....who cares? At this point all it is is finger pointing.
It's already been posted that there was severe communications breakdowns and the people that needed to know, weren't informed. Steps have apparently been taken to rectify that since both the mayor of New Orleans and the governor of Louisiana have both already declared emergencies to pave the wave for federal aid, in case it is needed. And that, is what counts in the long run, people have learned from the mistakes of the past.
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(http://i.imwx.com/images/maps/tropical/map_spectrop09_ltst_6nh_enus_600x405.jpg)
back on topic :aok
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I'd say a major hurricaine with 10,000 deaths might fall under section 2b. :aok
They'd hardly raise an eyebrow. What's got 'em interested is the oil rigs in the gulf and the refineries along the coast.
(http://www.cruisebruise.com/gulf_of_mexico_oil_platorms.jpg)
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Does the president have any way to help the people of a possible natural disaster before it hits?
WTF?
If we would have put all New Orleans in FEMA trailers before Katrina hit it would have tripled the casualties.
Those trailers are deathtraps in high winds.
I mean what are you thinking?
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What part of he could not act without the proper authorization don't you get? I bet you were just mesmerized by the hippo in an orange pant suit last night, weren't you?
Presidential power check, 101.
Can invade/attack foreign nation and not be accountable for 90 days. (True)
but...
Cannot mobilize humanitarian aid within own country during disaster, without invitation. (FALSE)
That may be the dumbest thing I've seen posted. A real chief exectutive, one that leads and takes the responsibility of the position seriously would have moved much quicker than this one did. Yes, the entire organization (FEMA) was a failure after Katrina.... without exception. Although it is not implicitly Mr. Bush's fault, he is complicit in it's failure, if only for not doing one thing.... LEADING. Playing "pass the buck" because FEMA needed to be "invited" is completely ludacris.... especially when such a large area was devastated.
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"Those among New Orleans' estimated 310,000 to 340,000 residents who ignore orders to leave accept "all responsibility for themselves and their loved ones," the city's emergency preparedness director, Jerry Sneed, has warned."
I hope folks get out.
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So if Gustav follows the predicted path and pumps back up to a Cat 2-3, do you think the folks down in New Orleans will get the heck out of dodge this time around, or will we see Katrina part II?
(http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/storm_graphics/AT07/refresh/AL0708W5+gif/143014W_sm.gif)
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at2.shtml?5day?large#contents (http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/graphics_at2.shtml?5day?large#contents)
I like the fact that the image keeps updating.
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It's looking like a miss for NO.
This time around the evacuation will likely cost more than the storm. ;)
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Looks like the center track is aiming west of NO for Latfayette, but the east side of the eye (what eye there is) is where the highest winds are, and the storm surge is still predicted to hit the delta hard.
(http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/storm_graphics/AT07/AL0708_psurge5_z2_sm.png)
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More people died in Katrina than in 9/11.
:huh Really?
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:huh Really?
It depends on what political point you are trying to get across. The first hit on Google I got says so, but in a report published online August 28, 2008, and which will appear in the October print edition of the Journal Disaster Medicine and Public Health Preparedness,
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20080828-1405-katrinadeathtoll.html (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20080828-1405-katrinadeathtoll.html)
Dr. Raoult Ratard, Louisiana's state epidemiologist and a co-author of the report, said plans are under way to help New Orleans' residents including the elderly prepare for the current storm, Gustav, which some projections say could hit Louisiana with hurricane strength in coming days.
“We're in the waiting period right now,” Ratard said.
The new report focuses on deaths directly related to Katrina in Louisiana, and on deaths of Louisiana residents who fled to other states. It's based on death certificates listing Katrina as the main or contributing cause and data from a federal disaster response team. The researchers counted 971 Katrina-related deaths in Louisiana, mostly in New Orleans, and 15 deaths among residents who fled out of state.
The time period was Aug. 27 to Oct. 31, 2005, which includes deaths in car crashes on evacuation routes and from injuries suffered during the storm.
The previously reported death toll for all Katrina victims has been put at 1,698. That includes bodies collected in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama, and Louisiana residents who died in other states in the month after Katrina.
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It depends on what political point you are trying to get across. The first hit on Google I got says so, but in a report published online August 28, 2008, and which will appear in the October print edition of the Journal Disaster Medicine and Public Health Preparedness,
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20080828-1405-katrinadeathtoll.html (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20080828-1405-katrinadeathtoll.html)
Skyrock claims 10,000? How could someone be so far off? Target fixation?