Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: TheBug on August 27, 2008, 05:09:12 PM
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Keeping wind for now but switched from AvA to MA bombsite. Also radar has been reduced to 10 miles from 20. I also have a request in to change fighter/bomber hardness to 1k from 3k and decrease troops needed for capture to 25 from 50. Down times currently will stay the same, 30 mins across the board. I will continue tweaking these settings, possibly including downtime, until I get a fluid front that is not prone to steamrolling. Also I do not want porking to become an arena debilitating aspect. <S>
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Great work Bug, thanks for all your effort. S!
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Just logged in and radar appears to be 20 miles still.
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Okay, someone was quick (or I'm going crazy) because they are at 10mile now.
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Okay, someone was quick (or I'm going crazy) because they are at 10mile now.
:noid
All set Trukk. :salute
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Okay, someone was quick (or I'm going crazy) because they are at 10mile now.
I'd stick with the crazy theory. :)
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Keeping wind for now but switched from AvA to MA bombsite. Also radar has been reduced to 10 miles from 20. I also have a request in to change fighter/bomber hardness to 1k from 3k and decrease troops needed for capture to 25 from 50. Down times currently will stay the same, 30 mins across the board. I will continue tweaking these settings, possibly including downtime, until I get a fluid front that is not prone to steamrolling. Also I do not want porking to become an arena debilitating aspect. <S>
So have you made those changes? The ones you said had been requested by ... someone. I know I didn't make a request. :)
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I requested them. I have no ability to modify the arena settings. Stampf took care of them though so we should be all set. Let's see what the second night brings. This may take a couple cmpaigns to lock down, so be patient. <S> :)
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Icon range is still set to 6k.
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I for one do like the long icon range. .... When I am on defense. :)
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Wanted to attempt to take a base tonight but became kinda difficult when the ack respawned only after a short while. I didnt time it, I know it was less than 15minutes and more than 3. :D
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Yeah the set up doesn't truly allow us to take bases with the numbers available interested in trying it. The AvA popularity has waned to the point that the rules we had before don't fly. We can furball, just fine. But attacking the bases or capturing them, not going to happen without a ton of co-ordination which we just don't have availuable on a casual night.
Many on both sides want to dog fight. And are switching sides to do so, keeping the numbers balanced. Add in the hardness, and the large capture numbers required, it may not happen.
I wouldn't propose changing it just yet. Give us one more night like this to see if we can get it done.
The field ack though is re-spawning way to fast. We completely de-aked the city at 13 at one point and the first guns were coming back online before the last bomber in the group made their run.
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we got 1 v base hoping to get the land grab going but we could not get any body away from the furball :D
we got lucky, I think a airfield would be a b#### with the numbers on right now. :salute.
I think the settings are ok just need more base taker types.
wojo
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Consider this constructive criticism because what I saw tonight likely won't bring in many new players.
I just jumped in for about 45 mins and flew Axis because the Allies had more players, to put it bluntly it was nothing more than a turkey shoot for the Allies. Not much you can do in a C202 or a 109E when every sortie you have 4 or 5 Spit 5's with a Huri 1 mixed in and a P40E zooming through.
Axis had 2 aircraft to choose anywhere close to the fight unless you wanted to fly 2 or 3 sectors and if you did, the other 2 aircraft really were not worth the extra flying time. I mean you think it's worth flying 3 sectors to fly a 110 or a 109F just to get hoarded by 15 Spit5's?
Meanwhile, Allies had choice of any of their rides close by due to the base locations being so close to each other. I think the only fair thing is to let all the planes up at any field and then just perk the uber rides, just like it's done in the MA. I wanted to give this a try because I was hoping it would be more of a fun fight than fighting in the MA, but seems like every sortie it was 4 or 5 Spit 5's on my six soon as I took off.
The plane sets are just far to unbalanced and when they are limited by the bases aswell, it just makes it even worse. In a 1 on 1 then yea a good stick in a 109E or a C202 could have a chance of beating the Spit5 or Huri1/2 but not when it's 4 or 5 of them on you every time. I can go to the MA if I want to fight 5 vs 1 every sortie against far better rides than what I'm flying.
I think you guys should just let all the aircraft up at any base and then ENY/Perk restrict them. The bases are just two far apart on this map to expect a small player base to be willing to fly 2 or 3 sectors to get to a fight. I know you guys are trying to be somewhat historical accurate, but just remember that doesn't always make a "fun" game. I also think the Axis should get one of the better 109's like the G2 or G6 then perk them, the planes sets are just far to unbalanced then being out numbered on top of that just doesn't make for a fun fight.
I know it wasn't much fun upping at a base in a 109E with 12 Spit 5's parked above it waiting for a easy kill to gang bang. Honestly there isn't a bad plane in the Allies plane set and the only way to keep it from being 90% spit 5's or Huri 2's is to perk them. Having them limited by bases will only help at the odd times a base isn't close.
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Since the war aspect is on a bakc burner I'll give away what we've been kinda up to the first two nights.
First night standing orders were on defense. All of the allied pilots were clear to up fighters and furball to their hearts content as long as they were close by so they could defend the front line bases.
I put the rare allied fighters right up on our front line on purpose. Figuring people would want to fly them. And so I put them in the bases I wanted defended so the furball types would naturally be able to help defend without stopping their normal activities.
Second night we tried to go on the attack, but just didn't have enough willing to try and do so. We had a decent amount out there fighting, but we also had a number who having no interest in taking bases switched sides while we were trying to take the base, and came up to defend it.
We could have just gone to the south and taken the undefended V-Bases, but i wanted to take A13. It's strategically important.
Problem tough with taking that base is that it is the easiest base the Axis can up to furball from. If we do take it they'll have to fly 2 sectors to reach us. The furball types have shown over and over again that they don't want to do that. This particular map won't cater to both types all the time. the Air bases are too scattered.
As for the allied types hovering over A13 and picking axis as they tried to climb out, they were ordered to. We were trying to capture the base. Only thing that really stopped us was that the field/town ack comes back after just a few minutes. To take the field you'd need a lot of bodies hitting it at one concentrated time. You'd have to knock out all the buildings and knock out all the ack, and get 50 troops in there all within the 3 minutes that the ack stays down.
3 minutes is just a guess, but I tried attacking one of the v-bases on the ground. I knocked out the southern gun, then turned my weapon on one of the buildings. by the time i had fired off a dozen tank rounds, the field ACK had reset and opened fire again.
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Consider this constructive criticism because what I saw tonight likely won't bring in many new players.
I just jumped in for about 45 mins and flew Axis because the Allies had more players, to put it bluntly it was nothing more than a turkey shoot for the Allies. Not much you can do in a C202 or a 109E when every sortie you have 4 or 5 Spit 5's with a Huri 1 mixed in and a P40E zooming through.
Axis had 2 aircraft to choose anywhere close to the fight unless you wanted to fly 2 or 3 sectors and if you did, the other 2 aircraft really were not worth the extra flying time. I mean you think it's worth flying 3 sectors to fly a 110 or a 109F just to get hoarded by 15 Spit5's?
Meanwhile, Allies had choice of any of their rides close by due to the base locations being so close to each other. I think the only fair thing is to let all the planes up at any field and then just perk the uber rides, just like it's done in the MA. I wanted to give this a try because I was hoping it would be more of a fun fight than fighting in the MA, but seems like every sortie it was 4 or 5 Spit 5's on my six soon as I took off.
The plane sets are just far to unbalanced and when they are limited by the bases aswell, it just makes it even worse. In a 1 on 1 then yea a good stick in a 109E or a C202 could have a chance of beating the Spit5 or Huri1/2 but not when it's 4 or 5 of them on you every time. I can go to the MA if I want to fight 5 vs 1 every sortie against far better rides than what I'm flying.
I think you guys should just let all the aircraft up at any base and then ENY/Perk restrict them. The bases are just two far apart on this map to expect a small player base to be willing to fly 2 or 3 sectors to get to a fight. I know you guys are trying to be somewhat historical accurate, but just remember that doesn't always make a "fun" game. I also think the Axis should get one of the better 109's like the G2 or G6 then perk them, the planes sets are just far to unbalanced then being out numbered on top of that just doesn't make for a fun fight.
I know it wasn't much fun upping at a base in a 109E with 12 Spit 5's parked above it waiting for a easy kill to gang bang. Honestly there isn't a bad plane in the Allies plane set and the only way to keep it from being 90% spit 5's or Huri 2's is to perk them. Having them limited by bases will only help at the odd times a base isn't close.
Well the problem here was that our rare planes were assigned to bases where they would be secure unless a massive land grab, or something of the like that could take the bases. The allied CO did this as well but had an opportunity to place the aircraft in a secure position that was incredibly close to the front lines.This also has initiated essentially a never ending furball with our planes that are available at every base vs. the rare planes that the Allies had extremely close to the front. The base chosen for this was in a group of 3 bases all less than 10 miles away from each other. This set of 3 bases is one of the most secure places on the entire map by the standards of the AVA. A capture of the base would close to impossible with even numbers, as you would need to take down 6 fighter hangers to nullify the possibility of any resistance in the air, and then the V hangers at the target base to be safe then the destroying of the town and bringing in the 25 troops required. The best idea I have seen to correct this problem is to place the rare aircraft in a second line position X miles from the closest Enemy base. Finally I would like to give a big :salute to the Allied CO for finding and using this advantage.
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Thanks Choppit.
Is the identity of the Axis commander still a secret?
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It only takes ~10 minutes to fly a 109F-4 to the fight, and then you can bnz the spit hoards all day if you like. :devil
Anyway, damionte did the exact right thing with the options available in this setup. Even if it annoys me that the whole "rarity" thing has totally failed on account of it, strategically it was the right move. However, that section of the map is advantageous to the allies because of the three airfields right next to each other. With the rules as they are now, capturing one of those airfields is near impossible if there is opposition because you'd have to close all 3 to get the job done. I don't know who the axis commander is, but his choice was reasonable under the circumstances because the axis side doesn't have 2 extra fields to back up the main one should it be closed.
I've never seen perk points in the ava. Has it been done before? I still prefer the idea of not allowing the rare fighters to be placed at forward bases, or just do away with them entirely and make it an early war fight.
P.S. the ack settings are pooched. Shouldn't they be down for 30 minutes like the rest of the objects? I also put a 500kg bomb directly on a hangar and it didn't go down.
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Here's a radical idea: Delete two of those airfields and leave one in its place. :aok
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I am the axis commander. I put the good rides back from the front lines like he said to prevent a front line base capture disabling them, and tonight if you have a couple of more players you would have I believe. It seems as usual everybody just wants quick furball fights and the "war" is just getting in the way. As choppit (XO)said those 3 base's together are a awesome defencive line :salute . we also had a couple of split squads with players on both side's so I don't know if any land grabs would have really worked.
there is always tommorrow.
LTARwojo
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I am the axis commander. I put the good rides back from the front lines like he said to prevent a front line base capture disabling them, and tonight if you have a couple of more players you would have I believe. It seems as usual everybody just wants quick furball fights and the "war" is just getting in the way. As choppit (XO)said those 3 base's together are a awesome defencive line :salute . we also had a couple of split squads with players on both side's so I don't know if any land grabs would have really worked.
there is always tommorrow.
LTARwojo
I don't know about the allied side, but the axis pilots love furballing at the expense of bomber pilots and larger objectives. ;) Mostly, any high cap over V88 or the triple-airfields for my bombers has been from squadies, but there have been some pleasant exceptions.
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Yeah my strategy is kinda based on the fact that most of your guys like to furball. So have been taking risks.
To be honest, we just don't have the numbers in the AvA to support some of these extra rules against base capture on such a limited map.
We're topping out at about 22 pilots per side at the peak. And that's just for maybe an hour or two at best. Usually a little less than that. Just prior to and after the peak we're looking at about a dozen per side, then 1-4 pilots per side.
:) In other news, when I looked at the rules he had in mind for this map, I reached out to try and recruit just one squad from the MA. I went looking for LTAR. :) Just to find out their boys had already joined up to fight for the AXIS. :)
If the AvA population was x5 to x10 its current size this series could work. We essentially need enough pilots in the arena that the strat guys can do their thing, and the furballers can do their thing and both sides can be happy. It's justnot possible to make them both happy with the current game mechanics.
My opinion is to let the EW and MW & MA be the normal hang out spot for the AvA furball crowds. And give the AvA server over to the strat guys, change the name if you have to. Segregate them so they can't squeak at each other.
Or take the campaign series idea, and run it the way you would the FSO in the SEA. Single large events on a longer campaign sceadule.
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Problem tough with taking that base is that it is the easiest base the Axis can up to furball from. If we do take it they'll have to fly 2 sectors to reach us. The furball types have shown over and over again that they don't want to do that. This particular map won't cater to both types all the time. the Air bases are too scattered.
Yea that's what I noticed as well. There are just far too many Vbases and not enough A bases spread out across the map. If Allies took that Abase the fight would be over and I'm quite sure at least 50% of the players would have logged off.
I even typed that on 200 that they were going to kill the fight if they continued the Spit5 hoard fest. When I logged on it was 20(Axis) vs 22(Allies) and was pretty even the first sortie I did. It was also a pretty good fight because most of the Allies were in P40E's at that time, so it was both even on the numbers & planes sets. P40E vs the 109E is a pretty even fight IMO.
I was looking forward to some good fights after that first sortie, but then it turned into the Spit5 hoard fest. Once that happened not many Axis were willing to up, just to get ganged by a bunch of Spit5's hovering over the base. It ended up being about 12 guys on Axis when I finally logged and about about 19 or 20 on Allies, it just wasn't any fun upping at a fight with no real chance.
The last land grab set up in AvA was set up pretty much the same way and we had the same problems then. Which is why I think it would be better to just have all the planes at any base then perk the planes that are supposed to be rare. The way it's set up now it's always going to be unfair to one side or the other, but more so for the Axis because the Allies aircraft will always be better and easier to fly.
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My opinion is to let the EW and MW & MA be the normal hang out spot for the AvA furball crowds. And give the AvA server over to the strat guys, change the name if you have to. Segregate them so they can't wench at each other.
Or take the campaign series idea, and run it the way you would the FSO in the SEA. Single large events on a longer campaign sceadule.
EW & MW are already tool shed haven, lol what more could you ask for? Much the same as the MA's for the most part, granted the MA's get a lot of furballing but unless it's a small map the land grabbers go wild in the MA as well. What we don't have is a place to have "good" fights with out all the uber rides or hoards of players ganging lone cons.
I personally don't think of myself as a furballer, but more of a dog fighter and I really wish there was a arena where I knew the average stick would be willing to put up a fight. It would be nice if there was a place in AH where the fight was respected more than the kill. AvA used to be like that a long time ago, but the numbers were always low.
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It's been two nights and it's drawn pretty good numbers although they all do when first starting. We are flying early war planeset. Give it a chance. It's extremely difficult to take a field with the early war planeset. It's the same fields as in MA which has late war rides to capture the fields. We (fly for the allies) have planes that carry one 500 lb bomb and no cannons. We will get mid-war rides next week which should allow for more ground attack. Late war after that. It's not necessarily a bad thing, more furballing early with a potential shift to more base capture and bombing in the later two weeks. Might be something for everyone.
We could consider making the base and town hardness a factor of the period of war if we want more base capture early. Lower hardness for early war to allow a chance at base capture.
I agree that the "perk" planes should only be allowed in rear bases. The idea behind the better planes was for balancing. If one side starts dominating in the land grab then they will eventuall bump into better planes which may help the defender some. It has the opposite effect if one side has them at a forward base and the other does not. I'm allied and would be open to a Bug mid-week modification on that or perhaps consider it for next round. Also, can we disable rearming/refueling? This would prevent people from ferrying over the perk planes.
We could use more numbers. Perhaps advertise more in general discussion forum for the mid-war week. Some MA people may find the early war rides too big of a change and not stick with it.
Venom
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Thanks for all the input guys. My head is a bit foggy today, I hurt myself last night :devil , so once I can get back to thinking I will consider what are options might be. <S>
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Thanks for all the input guys. My head is a bit foggy today, I hurt myself last night :devil , so once I can get back to thinking I will consider what are options might be. <S>
WHAT'S THAT!!! SOMEONE HAVE A HANGOVER!!!!! SPEAK UP SON, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!! :devil I will break it down for you Bug, they all said :aok
Only thing really missing is the invitations by squads to up and oppose. In the past, that generated huge positive posts. What folks haven't really let sink in yet, the WIN THE WAR component is only a backdrop to drive engagements.
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Except that the engagements are mere side effects of us trying to win the war.
The things blocking the base attacks currently are just quirks with the system. The basic setttings are screwed up in a coupl eof places. Things not on the books like the super regenerating ack.
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It's extremely difficult to take a field with the early war planeset. It's the same fields as in MA which has late war rides to capture the fields. We (fly for the allies) have planes that carry one 500 lb bomb and no cannons.
Hmmmm... very interesting ;)
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Yes, we axis have aircraft that carry no bombs at all! ;)
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Yes, we axis have aircraft that carry no bombs at all! ;)
We do to and know how you feel. I think that this is what makes the AVA experience better. Someone canned to uber planes for a while and made this a challenge.