Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SectorNine50 on September 09, 2008, 02:28:01 AM
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Just curious as to how many of us, if any, fly the P-51B often? It's been my favorite aircraft for a little while now, and I couldn't really tell you why, just fits my style well. Seems to have helped my gunnery a LOT as well, I assume it's because those 4 50's require pretty well placed shots. Anyway, I thought I'd ask because I noticed more B models this tour than I had seen in the past. :aok
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Sunday night I ran into at least a dozen of them. I dont know if it was a squad function or what as I never saw them in a group just one here another there... they all died. :D
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P-51B is a very fun plane, but I learned that it's a plane to where you got to have good shot place ment. You cant always make deflection shots like with the P-51D or P-47. So, it's a challenge, and it has very good visability, you can almost always see an enemy creep up on your six.
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i agree with 1plus, good shot placement is crucial, nice view of your own donut for a change :D :lol.as far as noticing a lot more b ponies, it may have just been you wer looking for them more than normal. to me a pony is a pony a jug is a jug, if flown well, theyre dangerous, if not you can walk all ovedr them (depending on your plane) :D
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Man, SkatSr is deadly in a Pony-D, I'd hate to see what would happen if he switched to a Pony-B. :noid
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Just curious as to how many of us, if any, fly the P-51B often? It's been my favorite aircraft for a little while now, and I couldn't really tell you why, just fits my style well. Seems to have helped my gunnery a LOT as well, I assume it's because those 4 50's require pretty well placed shots. Anyway, I thought I'd ask because I noticed more B models this tour than I had seen in the past. :aok
in MW, i generally find them doing what the D's do in LW.........picking or BnZ'ing, nothing more
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in MW, i generally find them doing what the D's do in LW.........picking or BnZ'ing, nothing more
Yeah, I know. They should get down and stall fight every engagement. Without exception.
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in MW, i generally find them doing what the D's do in LW.........picking or BnZ'ing, nothing more
Good Mustang pilots dont always pick but they do extend from the fight which they should to stay alive. But I know RogentX showed me he likes to slow up and make the plane think your gunna overshoot but you dont. AKDG has owned me like 5 times in like 7 weeks because I thought he had a ton of E but he didnt. Just saying its not as easy as yor making it sound to be a good Pony pilot.
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Sector95
If you ever see him on my sqauddy GovFlu flies the Pony B exclusively
:salute
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Yeah, I know. They should get down and stall fight every engagement. Without exception.
well.... i say that, because i've seen guys that can turnfight in the ponys.....against turnfighters, and they win. every time.
ren is one of them. if i could fly the pony like him, i'd fly it a lot, but i suck at bnz(mostly because i don't like it) and i cannot survive a turnfight in it.
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Interesting AH principle I've discovered: Everything you can do that goes against your opponent's plan makes you a dweeb and the Great Satan who is Ruining the Gameplay from the Halycon Days of Yore.
If everybody who flew hit and run in bricks in the MA flew Spits, then most of the same people who complain "drive by shooters" in the MA would be complaining about being pwned by all the "uber-helicopter-Spits". If everybody in a P-51 knew how to get 100% out of their plane and pwn people flying more maneuverable planes, then the complaints about "hackers" would multiply and rise into heaven....
The only way to be liked by the opposition in AHII is to be shot down, but you have to make them work just hard enough to make them feel like they have accomplished something. Delicate balance, but if you achieve it, you cup should runneth over with <S>'s.
Or you could play the game anyway you like, to shoot the other @#$%^&*!!! and otherwise piss off the guys in red. Someone said something about that being the point of the game or something once, I think...
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I enjoy flying the 51B its a fun plane to fly even tho theres only 4 50cals.
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Interesting AH principle I've discovered: Everything you can do that goes against your opponent's plan makes you a dweeb and the Great Satan who is Ruining the Gameplay from the Halycon Days of Yore.
If everybody who flew hit and run in bricks in the MA flew Spits, then most of the same people who complain "drive by shooters" in the MA would be complaining about being pwned by all the "uber-helicopter-Spits". If everybody in a P-51 knew how to get 100% out of their plane and pwn people flying more maneuverable planes, then the complaints about "hackers" would multiply and rise into heaven....
The only way to be liked by the opposition in AHII is to be shot down, but you have to make them work just hard enough to make them feel like they have accomplished something. Delicate balance, but if you achieve it, you cup should runneth over with <S>'s.
Or you could play the game anyway you like, to shoot the other @#$%^&*!!! and otherwise piss off the guys in red. Someone said something about that being the point of the game or something once, I think...
oooo make no mistake.......i don't care how the other guy flys really. i simply stated a fact that i see.
i die a lot too. i don't run very often from a fight, as i'm not normally in a plane that can run.
as i've said in other threads too, when i do get a picker, i try to evade, and try to include some increase in my alt on each evasive. i've yet to learn how to turn my disadvantage into an advantage by other means, but i'll figure it out sooner or later.
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i agree with 1plus, good shot placement is crucial, nice view of your own donut for a change
Shot placement is important in any plane you choose. Choosing a plane that carries enough ammo to spray and pray with is a different story. Even the TBM can get some good kills if you can find a decent 1 vs. 1. That particular plane is considered an easy kill and can attract a lot of sharks, but if you can hold the guns on them long enough..poof
One of my favorites is the Fm2 which like the B carries only 4 50's. Umfortunately the plane seems to loose it's guns easily once your hit in the wings. I recently had a nice 1 vs. 1 with AkAk in mid war. His first pass on me took two of them out. We fought down from like 12k for about 3-4 minutes. In the end, my 2 50's did just fine and down he went. It was the only time he ever said nice fight to me.
A lot of the 109's can get some good kills too. Most carry the small 7.9mm (303 type) pre G6 or the 13mm (50 cal type) weapons with only one cannon. Shot placement with them is also critical without Gondolas. The Ki-84 is another favorite of mine. Once the cannons are gone those 2 cowl mounted 12.7's don't have a problem taking planes down.
Or you could play the game anyway you like, to shoot the other @#$%^&*!!! and otherwise piss off the guys in red. Someone said something about that being the point of the game or something once, I think...
Pyro or Skuzzy wrote that and I'm not sure how many years ago but I wish they hadn't. I don't know what the post was truly about but many people use that comment to fit their own needs either here on the boards or in game to validate some uncool actions. :frown:
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picking or BnZ'ing, nothing more
You are mistaken
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I like the P51 because in most situations you control the fight and I like fighting like that. Every now and then I run into someone that does the same to me and I hate it then so I can see why people post anti-pony anti-bnz comments. On those occasions where I was forced to fight from a point of disadvantage against greater numbers (alone) and still survived the guys that died attacking me didnt salute or make polite comments and I think its because they saw easy meat and came away hungry. It doesnt happen like that all the time for me and I doubt it happens like that all the time for any 'great' pony stick. I dont know how they think but I always say to myself 'I have killed them and they have killed me' and move on. Im not one of those guys that gets killed and has to go right back and kill the guy that got me but often times the guy that does shoot me finds out an hour or so later that while he was afk or typing in the text buffer that he was killed and never saw it coming and no I dont use second accounts thats just the nature of arena type games. That to me is a sweet kill. :aok
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P-51B has always had a sweet spot in my heart (as have several others). I like the plane itself. I'm not sure if I fly it to its best capabilities, but I enjoy it when I take it out. The 4x guns means you can't get snapshot kills, but you can take them, which means a very increased risk when you mix things up. Glancing blows on the enemy won't put 'em down.
On the other hand, as mentioned, 4x 50cal (and even 2x 50cal) are more than capable of killing foes if you get your shot right before you pull the trigger.
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My squadie beaston loves the ponyB.
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No problem Cap, I am just pointing out that nothing you ever do in the game will stop the fact that 99% of the time after "You shot down ______", _____ will be able to point out something horribly gamey, dweebey, unfair, etc that you did. You either had energy, or numbers, or a dweeb plane, or you hacked, or you got lucky, 95% of the time.
oooo make no mistake.......i don't care how the other guy flys really. i simply stated a fact that i see.
i die a lot too. i don't run very often from a fight, as i'm not normally in a plane that can run.
as i've said in other threads too, when i do get a picker, i try to evade, and try to include some increase in my alt on each evasive. i've yet to learn how to turn my disadvantage into an advantage by other means, but i'll figure it out sooner or later.
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I like the P51 because in most situations you control the fight and I like fighting like that. Every now and then I run into someone that does the same to me and I hate it then so I can see why people post anti-pony anti-bnz comments. On those occasions where I was forced to fight from a point of disadvantage against greater numbers (alone) and still survived the guys that died attacking me didnt salute or make polite comments and I think its because they saw easy meat and came away hungry. It doesnt happen like that all the time for me and I doubt it happens like that all the time for any 'great' pony stick. I dont know how they think but I always say to myself 'I have killed them and they have killed me' and move on. Im not one of those guys that gets killed and has to go right back and kill the guy that got me but often times the guy that does shoot me finds out an hour or so later that while he was afk or typing in the text buffer that he was killed and never saw it coming and no I dont use second accounts thats just the nature of arena type games. That to me is a sweet kill. :aok
LIKE I said...i don't really care how the other guy flys. yes, it does spoil the fun of a good furball. yes, it is MUCH harder to avoid those attacks.
to me it is also hard to hit a target when i'm moving that fast too. i've tried in the past.
hell, the other night, i sw a guy in a zeke(think it was spinnach?) BnZ'ing. was the first time i've seen that. i would never have thought of that in m zeke honestly.
my only point was/is, that in the right hands, the pony CAN beat(i think) 90% of what's in here in an given situation. i only wish i could fly it that well.
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No problem Cap, I am just pointing out that nothing you ever do in the game will stop the fact that 99% of the time after "You shot down ______", _____ will be able to point out something horribly gamey, dweebey, unfair, etc that you did. You either had energy, or numbers, or a dweeb plane, or you hacked, or you got lucky, 95% of the time.
funny you mention that. i was manning a ground gun defend a vbase the other night......dragon accused me of cheasting since i hit his lancs at 4.5 out. i hit a fuel tank, and lit it off......when the wing failed, he went bananas on 200 accusing me, telling me i was being recorded, etc......was TOOO funny :rofl
oo...when i get shot down...it's my own fault about 99.999999999999999999999% of the time. :D
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my only point was/is, that in the right hands, the pony CAN beat(i think) 90% of what's in here in an given situation. i only wish i could fly it that well.
Don't you think the other late war rides are better? IMHO, the k4, LA7, D9, 152, spixteen, are all better planes than either pony.
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Don't you think the other late war rides are better? IMHO, the k4, LA7, D9, 152, spixteen, are all better planes than either pony.
D9 and 152 aren't really "better" IMHO, esp 1v1. If the Pony's turning weren't so porked, I'd call it about even stevens with the K4, and as-is Mustang still has some things over the Kurt. Spixteen it more or less leaves in the dust when it needs to, if the Pony pilot doesnt' get himself into too bad a corner. La7 is a low-altitude freak true enough, it is probably somewhat, er, "hypermodeled". Still can't touch the Pony in it's natural hi-alt element, and once again, if the Pony's turning were a little less porked, it could probably give La drivers pause. A Jug with flaps turns well enough to follow an average La driver around and blow him to pieces once you wind up on his six, if a Pony was noticeably better than the Jug, instead of noticeably worse, in that regard, Lalas would present no insoluble problem for Mustangs.
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Don't you think the other late war rides are better? IMHO, the k4, LA7, D9, 152, spixteen, are all better planes than either pony.
No. The D9 and 152 definately are not.
The K-4 and the La-7 can dominate a P-51. So can the XVI but only if the Pony doesn't run.
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If the Pony's turning weren't so porked,
but it is. We're not talking in "ifs" . :)
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No. The D9 and 152 definately are not.
The K-4 and the La-7 can dominate a P-51. So can the XVI but only if the Pony doesn't run.
In terms of a 1v1 fight, what does a pony do better than the d9 besides low speed turning?(and that only marginally)
Same with the 152?
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SectorNine50,
P-51b :aok
Of lately the P-51b has been my ride 90% of the time. There are so many positive attributes with this ride but most importantly suites my current skill set very well.
Note: I was the worst P51 pilot in the world until I set my convergence to 350 or less.
WT
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IMO the 190D is a good match for the Pony, and can best it in many cases. Unless the P51 is already at top speed and can zoom higher than the Dora, the Dora can climb better, accelerate better, get snapshot kills easier, can roll/scissor better.
Both have pretty poor low-speed handling, but I think the dora could climb out of that situation into a yo-yo better.
Not a clear dominator, but I think the dora would have the upper hand as long as the pony doesn't run away (in which case dora could still give reasonable chase)
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In terms of a 1v1 fight, what does a pony do better than the d9 besides low speed turning?(and that only marginally)
Same with the 152?
Well, first of all, the 190 D9 isn't really a 375 mph fighter in typical combat configuration. Because of the D9's short legs, a drop tank is almost required, the centerline rack slows the top speed of the D9 down to 369 or so on the deck, 1 measely mph faster than a P-51D, a P-51 will retain energy slightly better than a D9 with a rack. Second, the Pony turns noticeably better, especially since it can pop flaps at much higher speeds than the 190. (True enough, the charts show the 190 D9 having a slightly better turn radius with full flaps than the Pony. This shows you how porked the Pony's turn w/flaps modeling is, but doesn't really help the D9, since full flaps come out at such slow speeds, the Dora is already DEAD before it can pop them.) The Pony also has much better forward visibility and guns that are arguably easier to hit with, although admittedly less deadly. Also, although both planes have radiators, the D9's seems to get popped much easier, almost any hit to the front quarter seems to do it, you can almost guarantee a glide home after dismantling a buff formation in a D9.
The D9's advantages over the Pony are acceleration and climb esp. below 10K or so, roll rate, and hitting power. This thrust advantage goes away at 13K or so though. From there on up, a D9 basically has little/no performance advantage against Ponies, and it just gets worse and worse the higher you get.
Primary thing the D9 has going over the Pony in MA conditions is that if you screw up and end up somewhat low and slow in the typical mixed furball crowd with lots of dedicate t'n'b fighters around, you can get your speed back quicker. But the Pony can egress, re-alt, and re-engage more times than the D9 because of its superior range and better climb on Mil.
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Don't you think the other late war rides are better? IMHO, the k4, LA7, D9, 152, spixteen, are all better planes than either pony.
THEY POSSIBLY ARE., i don't get to deal with them much as i fly mw. but the key to what i said was ""in the right hands"".
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First of all you keep saying "with the pony's porked flaps" -- the P51D was never a great turnfighter. It couldn't out turn 109s as the previous post griped it should.
The "porkage" is in relationship to the % of turn radius gained between no flaps and full flaps, as compared to most of the other planes in this game.
As for flaps, the P-51 can lower flap notches much faster than the 190D, but the 190D has a very smart instantaneous turn rate, and can pull a LOT of Gs in a short time span. It will bleed some speed as it does it, but it can seriously break away from a high-speed P-51. Flaps or no, the P-51 will be limited in how hard it can break at these speeds. The flaps really only help at medium speeds and low speeds, in which case the 190D and the P-51s are both in the same problem zone.
When I'm in a 190 I don't have too much trouble with P-51s. I like the match-up. When I'm in a P-51D I think the same of 190Ds as my targets, only perhaps it's a bit harder from this side of the fence.
They're really rather similar rides, IMO.
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B is 90% of what the D is, plus I like it's climb/low speed handling better as well as the fact I think I could fly it without having to think of myself as a "dweeb". :D For 20 ENY heck yeah.
Aside: Methinks 190 drivers are much better than pony drivers (generality of course)
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Interesting conversation, the few planes I fear in my Pony B are LA7's, Yaks, Spit IX or XVI's with an e advantage, 109's (Depends on the stick), and the occasional F4U. F4U's are usually no problem, but when they have more E than I do, it worries me a bit. The huge advantage in the Pony B I see is it's stability at very low speeds. I've figured out how to keep that thing flying at full flaps and 100 mph. :lol It's very nice for the 190's that are scissoring in front of you, I just slow wayyy down, go straight with full flaps and hit them on the deflection shot every time they pass in front of me. F4U's tend to have a harder time staying on my six at low speeds as well.
I personally love my convergence at 400 and 375 since that's where I always seem to find myself opening fire.
I actually hate B n' Zing, oddly enough, I'd rather get down and dirty in a furball. The biggest issue in dogfighting a pony, in my opinion, is flap and WEP management. It seems like my flaps are constantly moving between 0, 1, and 2 notches, that coupled with WEP in a hard turn makes these things crank around pretty surprisingly well. I have found myself having to extend and gain alt against some turn fighters before though, they usually don't like it when I come back and sneak up on them again in standard pony fashion... :(
The B model is a better plane than the D at low alt, in my opinion. However, once you get up above 15k, the D model rules.
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Well, first of all, the 190 D9 isn't really a 375 mph fighter in typical combat configuration.... text
You've pointed out that the D9 turns better w/ flaps, out climbs, out accelerates, out rolls, is more lethal and is faster. Most fights occur below 10k so the numbers above 13k matter little. A pony has better views..are you saying the views offset all the advantages the d9 has?
I could be mistaken but it seems like you are not being objective, no offense.
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Out of curiosity, have you ever had a hard time dogfighting 190's in-game Steve? Reason I ask is they seem easy pickings to me. A squad mate, Deth13, flys the A8 and Dora a lot. Even when I had a 1v1 with him it seemed like no match, really.
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In terms of a 1v1 fight, what does a pony do better than the d9 besides low speed turning?(and that only marginally)
Same with the 152?
There you have it (except it's at both mid and low speeds). That plus the notorious instability of the 190's at low speeds.
The P-51 has a big edge in dive speed over the 152 and the 152 suffers from a glass radiator.
The P-51D's edge may be marginal but the P-51B will outturn either of these with ease (but of course gives up speed).
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Never said it was a "great" turn fighter Krusty. Its all relative though! The P-51D currently turns worse than a few fighters that, by all rights, it should not. Are you telling me you think the D9, with its decidedly higher wing-loading and Split-type flaps should make a smaller minimum circle than a P-51 with maneuvering flaps? Looks odd to me. Looks even odder when both the Allied and Axis pilots say the Pony turns better than the Jug, but we get the opposite result here.
Steve: I only cited the D9 vs. P-51's full flaps radius as an example of oddness in the flight model. Under actual conditions D9 will never get a chance to use full flaps to turn tighter than the Pony. FIRST notch of flaps on the D9 looks like it comes out looks like ~180mph on my ASI. The D9 is already a wallowing target at those speeds.
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Out of curiosity, have you ever had a hard time dogfighting 190's in-game Steve? Reason I ask is they seem easy pickings to me. A squad mate, Deth13, flys the A8 and Dora a lot. Even when I had a 1v1 with him it seemed like no match, really.
Yes, a well flown d9, A8 or A5 give me trouble. If they are easy pickins for you, it may be a simple function of you bring a better cartoon pilot than me. :)
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Yes, a well flown d9, A8 or A5 give me trouble. If they are easy pickins for you, it may be a simple function of you bring a better cartoon pilot than me. :)
WTF? :huh:
I have seen you disassemble F4Us, F6Fs, 109s, etc. 190s should not be giving you trouble.
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BnZ ever since the airflow recode of.. what was it? 2.06? ... the 190s no longer flop below 180mph. They're no spitfires but the airflow bug has been fixed and they are much more "normal" along with the 109s. Definitely not the friend of slow speeds, but able to hold on better.
Also, don't compare full flaps. Full flaps were NEVER used in combat. This is a major problem in Aces High, in that they are hyper-abused in almost every fight. They don't have nearly as much detriment to high-G turns as they should. Split flaps should have no benefit on spitfires but they do, and they make P-40s into a6ms for a short period of time.
Look at the "no flaps" turn radii here:
http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=p51d&p2=p51b&p3=p47d40&p4=190d9
You'll see the "no flaps" is about right. The problem is only in how AH implements flaps and how players abuse it to get easier kills.
And I wasn't saying the 190D can out turn the P-51 with flaps use. I was saying the instant turn rate will help break a P-51 from behind a Dora's tail, and help him get out of a bad situation. That coupled with climb, acceleration, rolling (scissors as the P-51 swings too wide while trying to pop its high-speed flaps?) will favor the 190. It's not a total domination, but I think the Dora has the upper hand in general.
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WTF? :huh:
I have seen you disassemble F4Us, F6Fs, 109s, etc. 190s should not be giving you trouble.
Particularly at mid to high speed fights, a well flown 190 really gives me a hard time.
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BnZ ever since the airflow recode of.. what was it? 2.06? ... the 190s no longer flop below 180mph. They're no spitfires but the airflow bug has been fixed and they are much more "normal" along with the 109s. Definitely not the friend of slow speeds, but able to hold on better.
I didn't say it was flopping, I said it was wallowing, as in with a D9's rate and radius of turn at that speed, a P-51 with 1-2 notchs of flaps will usually have gotten behind and shot it before the D9 can pop those flaps in some attempt to "out-turn" the Pony. Like I said to Steve, I wasn't citing "out turn a P-51D using full flaps" as a practical D9 technique, only as an oddity.
And btw, I never said the P-51D should "out-turn" the 109 in any absolute terms, only that perhaps it should be a bit closer than it is.
Also, don't compare full flaps. Full flaps were NEVER used in combat. This is a major problem in Aces High, in that they are hyper-abused in almost every fight. They don't have nearly as much detriment to high-G turns as they should. Split flaps should have no benefit on spitfires but they do, and they make P-40s into a6ms for a short period of time.
Look at the "no flaps" turn radii here:
http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=p51d&p2=p51b&p3=p47d40&p4=190d9
You'll see the "no flaps" is about right. The problem is only in how AH implements flaps and how players abuse it to get easier kills.
I agree with you Krusty, but things as they are is what we deal with, including full-flap usage. At least until they get rid of auto-retracting flaps, and we start jamming/tearing the buggers off more. Sounds like we are almost on the same page on that.
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I agree with you Krusty... Sounds like we are almost on the same page...
What are these BBs coming to? :D
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I cant say a La7 or Spit 16 can really give a P51D trouble as long as they are the only two around. I have trouble with 16s only when there is a faster plane around that forces a turn fight to happen against the 16. If you dont know what I mean you have never been there. Otherwise the only plane that really gives me fits is the Temp but not many of the people that fly it actually fly it well so not all of them are trouble. A 190 can usually be beaten unless he has alt advantage and yes I do fight them up above 20k on occasion (I love escort duties) and they usually figure out real fast they need to leave.
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Don't you think the other late war rides are better? IMHO, the k4, LA7, D9, 152, spixteen, are all better planes than either pony.
Steve, you should fly the 109K-4 more often. I try my best in the K-4, but I still find it far easier to kill with the P-51D because of the great ballistics, high speed maneuverability, and superb e retention.
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OK.....I can't jump in on the last few posts, as i don't fly any of these high speed fighters.
would any of you be able to help me learn them in the TA? or anyone else that mayu be interested in learning them?
i can usually get there at around 9-ish or so on weeknights..eastern time.
thanks!
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Steve, you should fly the 109K-4 more often. I try my best in the K-4, but I still find it far easier to kill with the P-51D because of the great ballistics, high speed maneuverability, and superb e retention.
Well for as much as I suck at this game( I get told this multiple times each day) if the k4 is indeed a worse plane than the 51, I'd just suck that much more. :O
I'm going to take a little while today and reconsider my involvement on 200 and these boards. I've been back for around 2 months after taking most of 18 months off and this last month have been getting vicious PM's and things on 200 types to me. It detracts for the enjoyment of the game and I really like playing this game. For the most part, the stuff in the game can be considered "heat of the moment" stuff... heck I am guilty of this too. But look what is being typed on the boards, far removed from any competition:
Sorry, the only thing that impresses me about Steve is his mastery of the BNZ pick. Other than that, he has only one other skill, and that's to run. He couldn't pull a reversal for a million bucks.
It's easy to fly a fast plane and get a lot of kills. I respect someone who stays in the fight despite being at a disadvantage and still wins.
I wish we could do something about these gamey players. Maybe I should put on the wishlist the creation of a player counsel to remove dweebs that do this kind of stuff. You know, vote them off the island..
His ego is only matched by his mouth too. Such a shame. I feel sorry for his kids.
I have to admit, to find out I am a negative factor in the community makes me feel quite dejected. I wouldn't want to be a killjoy. Perhaps I need to remove myself from the boards and 200. There's no way to not show country text in game, is there?
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Steve, people are more often resented for their achievements than their defects. That's just a small but important lesson life has taught me. :salute
P.S. I almost always detune 200.
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Would it be in vain to defend against those statements or have you already tried?
200 is the complain and smack talk channel. I know your a Muppet and it is requirement to give people a hard time and carry a big ego but you really don't have to if you don't want to. It sounds to me like you should just go with your gut feeling on this one Steve. Turn off 200, try not to speak much and continue as you were.
Enjoy the game :aok
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Ignore that crap dude. You let me and other noobs ride with you to pick up pointers whenever , you're a nice guy, and TOO modest if anything.
I guess the films of you doing reversals and whacking better turning planes are meaningless.
Those who think it easy to get lots of kills bnzing anything other than the spawn at the end of the runway have never tried it. Those who think they are "leet" but think a sim pilot should be banned from the game for more or less following Hartmann's dicta are ridiculous. Not that you OPHA from what I've seen. Or maybe you do, but only because you shot down the bandit and only NEEDED one pass. :devil:
Well for as much as I suck at this game( I get told this multiple times each day) if the k4 is indeed a worse plane than the 51, I'd just suck that much more. :O
I'm going to take a little while today and reconsider my involvement on 200 and these boards. I've been back for around 2 months after taking most of 18 months off and this last month have been getting vicious PM's and things on 200 types to me. It detracts for the enjoyment of the game and I really like playing this game. For the most part, the stuff in the game can be considered "heat of the moment" stuff... heck I am guilty of this too. But look what is being typed on the boards, far removed from any competition:
I have to admit, to find out I am a negative factor in the community makes me feel quite dejected. I wouldn't want to be a killjoy. Perhaps I need to remove myself from the boards and 200. There's no way to not show country text in game, is there?
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Would it be in vain to defend against those statements or have you already tried?
200 is the complain and smack talk channel. I know your a Muppet and it is requirement to give people a hard time and carry a big ego but you really don't have to if you don't want to. It sounds to me like you should just go with your gut feeling on this one Steve. Turn off 200, try not to speak much and continue as you were.
Enjoy the game :aok
I tried to respond to some of the statements, even took some people up on their challenges to go to the DA. When things went badly for them there, I said nothing except <S> and thanks for the fights, just quietly returned to the MA and never mentioned it. I haven't heard from these people in the MA since then but I'd rather go to the DA to learn things. I went there with Twinboom the other day and learned a couple of cool things. I'd rather learn and have fun there than duel chest thumpers.
I am a bit caught off guard by the ego thing. When referring to my own game experience I don't remember tooting my own horn much. I tend to think things like this: My way of flying is no measure of skill either. What I mean is, I fly a 51. IMHO a 51 is much easier to survive in the MA than say.. a spit 5. Even though I was ranked #1 in fighters, we know I'm by no means the best stick in the game. Sure, I can do ok in a 51, but put me in say a jug, 38 or hog against some of those guys that fly them regularly and they'd eat my lunch. We could make a list of those guys but it would take up pages
I know there are some continent sized egos in the muppets, but I didn't consider myself one. Anyway, I believe you are right, I'm going to have to walk away from 200.
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I know there are some continent sized egos in the muppets, but I didn't consider myself one. Anyway, I believe you are right, I'm going to have to walk away from 200.
Good idea, ;)
Just out of curiosity, how did you end up a parolee in such a short amount of time?
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Good idea, ;)
Just out of curiosity, how did you end up a parolee in such a short amount of time?
I've been around since 2002. I used to let the trolls get to me in the Oclub, now I let them be. :)
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Sorry to hear about the trash talk Steve, I know how sometimes it can detract from the fun in the game. :(
But to get back on topic, I highly doubt I'm a better pony stick, Steve. I just got started flying the B model this year! :P Maybe that is the difference though, perhaps the B model is a better match against the D9 in terms of performance differences.
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Sorry to hear about the trash talk Steve, I know how sometimes it can detract from the fun in the game. :(
But to get back on topic, I highly doubt I'm a better pony stick, Steve. I just got started flying the B model this year! :P Maybe that is the difference though, perhaps the B model is a better match against the D9 in terms of performance differences.
That could be it. For whatever reason, I had a harder time landing hits w/ a B-pony. Not just kill shots, but pings in general. This could be some sort of mental block for me though and might not have anything to do with the plane. :lol
BnZ, thanks for the kind words. I have found that when I have someone ride with me, I often learn things too. It's good to get different perspectives of things, especially as a fight unfolds in real time. Kind of cool to see how one person sees it compared to how I see it.
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I've been killed by Steve often. :cry But thats my bad and I admire him for it. I also mostly fly the 51 however not very good. But I am adult enough to admit... "I wish I could fight like Steve"
:salute
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I took the pony B up once or twice, the 4 50s just so far apart isn't enough for me.
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B pony is a ton of fun to use in this game. It's just hard for me to pick it over the D model if it's available. The only 190 I have trouble with is the A-5. The rest are usually not a problem to kill using the pony. The K-4 is an awesome ride but I hate the visibility and I tend to have trouble puttin those tators on target sometimes. :furious
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Steve responses like that indicate that you have hit them where it hurts worse and thats a good thing. Love to fly with you or Rogent either one or anyone else devoted to the 51. I get responses like this every day (usually on PM) and I dont care. I used to SS them and record and now I just ignore them or call them out on 200 to knock it off.
Narrow minded people with narrow vision will never reach your level of proficiency. :salute
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Shot placement is important in any plane you choose. Choosing a plane that carries enough ammo to spray and pray with is a different story. Even the TBM can get some good kills if you can find a decent 1 vs. 1. That particular plane is considered an easy kill and can attract a lot of sharks, but if you can hold the guns on them long enough..poof
One of my favorites is the Fm2 which like the B carries only 4 50's. Umfortunately the plane seems to loose it's guns easily once your hit in the wings. I recently had a nice 1 vs. 1 with AkAk in mid war. His first pass on me took two of them out. We fought down from like 12k for about 3-4 minutes. In the end, my 2 50's did just fine and down he went. It was the only time he ever said nice fight to me.
I love the FM-2, because it's such a slow plane, shot placement doesn't really matter IMO. I'm such a good shot with it. Since the P-51B is so fast, it's harder for shots.
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Sometimes a single encounter or two can shape someone's judgement.
I've only ever "fought" you twice Steve. Once I chased your Pony on the deck in a Spit XVI, then, when I knew I wouldn't catch you, I turned and, while engaged with 3 other cons you came back and picked me.
The other time I was on the deck engaged with a single con when you came in from above and picked me again.
Now I'm not complaining. Both times I knew you were there and chose not to bother with you. That was totally my own fault. If that's how you get some of your kills great. I get a few the same way but I've always given you the benefit of the doubt as to your style and abilities. Others may not. I've been around long enough to know that it takes more than a couple of encounters to judge someone.
I like you (not in any gay way or anything btw :D ) and would hate to "lose" you as a contributing member of the community. As you are well aware, you have to have a thick skin to participate in these BBs (or on 200), so if I were you I'd write them off as sore losers and forget about it.
On the other hand, and not having fought you that much, if that is your modus operandi, then you reap what you sow.
Either way it doesn't matter.
BTW, sorry not to rush in gushing like all your other supporters, even though I am trying to support you. It's just not my style.
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I think a lot of people the complain about pickers are the Spit pilots (no offense). It's odd to me how many Spit pilots expect a Pony to stick around and turn fight with them. I sure as hell won't try to do maybe more than 1 or 2 turns before I'll extend just because the "E" retention on Spits is very scary. I'd be willing to bet that if those people flew something like a F4U, 109, 190, etc. etc., they would see Pony pilots in a completely new light.
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i ran into one p-51b this tour. he cherry picked 2 guys and ran away. he would not fight me in my spit 16.
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I think a lot of people the complain about pickers are the Spit pilots (no offense).
Or they are flying anything rather slow with an extreme maneuverability advantage. Indeed, if someone reasonably good in a Pony like Steve were instead flying say a N1K, they'd be in here :cry about getting owned and making "perk the N1K threads" instead of :cry about being destroyed while engaging in futile chases of faster planes.
i ran into one p-51b this tour. he cherry picked 2 guys and ran away. he would not fight me in my spit 16.
Case in point....
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i think the point i was trying to make earlier though, is that in the right hands, a pony can still beat 90% of the aircraft in here, as modeled. the pilot may not fight a pure turnfight, but i also believe he doesn't have to resort to BnZ, or simply cherry picking.
i also don't complain too much about it when i get picked(although it does piss me off), because i'm the one that put me in that low slow turnfight.
i am getting a little better at knowing when i'm being set up....ie the guy in front of me suddenly starts doing more gentle evasives, or goes up when there's other ocns in the area.....
if someone's BnZ'ing me, i consider it a victory if i survive the engagement.
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The Pony has two big things going for it IMO.
1. It can usually engage when it wants to, and disengage when it doesn't.
2. With its views and guns, it can, on a plane it has an E advantage over, almost certainly set up at least one good shot. Good plane for a real sniper IMHO.
I flew it a little this morning though, and I had forgotten how squirrely it can be as a gun platform. Steve, I see one of the difficulties you labor under. If someone does the split-S at the last second and you have to push the nose forward a bit to get lead, forget it, nose wanders all over the place. Also notice that when you hit auto-level, it will "porpoise" quite badly sometimes, further evidence of squirrelieness.
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I've only ever "fought" you twice Steve. Once I chased your Pony on the deck in a Spit XVI, then, when I knew I wouldn't catch you, I turned and, while engaged with 3 other cons you came back and picked me.
I would do that to any Spit XVI without hesitation. :t
Make no mistake, if you're in a XVI some of us will give you "special treatment." ;)
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Steve stay put!
Number one. Half of these gentleman spouting off don't know you at all. Number two....they know little if nothing about air combat.
Some of these gents making snide remarks would belittle someone for not turnfighting their zero, spit etc. at low speed. They need a sucker to get a kill.
Number Three......whatever one flies you try and fly to the strengths of your craft.....not to the strengths of your opponents.
They wouldn't know SA or ACM if it hit them in the face.
Steve my friend don't pay attention to those that are p'od because you know how to use your aircraft and they don''t know what to do with theirs. Or....even if they do I guess they actually want you to give up your advantage so you are their target.
Sheeeeeeeeeesh
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I would do that to any Spit XVI without hesitation. :t
Make no mistake, if you're in a XVI some of us will give you "special treatment." ;)
Well, I've found out it's no different in a F4F-4. Last week I was ganged by 4-5 Tempests, last night I was downed in a me on 8 playing base defense.
I think hoards just like to gang anything that gets slow and there's always a picker among them.
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Well, I've found out it's no different in a F4F-4. Last week I was ganged by 4-5 Tempests, last night I was downed in a me on 8 playing base defense.
I think hoards just like to gang anything that gets slow and there's always a picker among them.
i think in things like that, they all see the kill comming...and they figure they'll beat the other guy to it.......
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i ran into one p-51b this tour. he cherry picked 2 guys and ran away. he would not fight me in my spit 16.
Well... Yeah... :lol
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I liek the B model much better for a furball. I seem to be able to knife fight much better in the B than the D. Of course if I'm banging hangers the D is a must.
There are only a few pilots I generally fear in a d model. Those are any AK, Steve, and 0ldemon. Plus I suck so I'm an easy kill anyway. Also, BE hasn't cleaned my clock in awhile so I won't inflate his ego. :devil
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(Cough!) I wonder who this was? :D
http://www.vimeo.com/1666570
and not even an honorable mention? :cry
:rofl
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Those who think they are "leet" but think a sim pilot should be banned from the game for more or less following Hartmann's dicta are ridiculous.
Thinking of oneself as "leet" and not being impressed by people emulating Hartmann are two different things...
It's your $15, but here's my point of view: If you want to spend your online time in this absolutely consequence-free environment where death means nothing, running around practicing Dicta Boelke and pretending you're Hartmann, that's fine. Just don't expect much respect or adulation from those who run around pretending they're Marseille.
I'm not necessarily speaking to you in particular, BnZ... But it seems like for every crybaby angles fighter who complains about how worse planes won't try and turnfight them, there's another crybaby BnZ'er who can't understand why no one's that impressed with him/her.
Personally, the people that impress me are the guys that take a plane "worse" than mine, and put up the absolute best fight they can. Win, lose, or draw, they've got my admiration. I guess it's kind of like how a high school dropout turned millionaire will sell more autobiographies than a silver-spoon-fed guy who inherited his riches. People like the feisty underdog in life, and in this game, it's no different.
YMMV
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Thinking of oneself as "leet" and not being impressed by people emulating Hartmann are two different things...
It's your $15, but here's my point of view: If you want to spend your online time in this absolutely consequence-free environment where death means nothing, running around practicing Dicta Boelke and pretending you're Hartmann, that's fine. Just don't expect much respect or adulation from those who run around pretending they're Marseille.
I'm not necessarily speaking to you in particular, BnZ... But it seems like for every crybaby angles fighter who complains about how worse planes won't try and turnfight them, there's another crybaby BnZ'er who can't understand why no one's that impressed with him/her.
Personally, the people that impress me are the guys that take a plane "worse" than mine, and put up the absolute best fight they can. Win, lose, or draw, they've got my admiration. I guess it's kind of like how a high school dropout turned millionaire will sell more autobiographies than a silver-spoon-fed guy who inherited his riches. People like the feisty underdog in life, and in this game, it's no different.
YMMV
WELL, I put up part of what you're talking about. i put up the best fight i know how. win= my opponent, lose=me, draw=not when i fly and fight.'
i pretty much always have a slow plane, so there's no running.
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Numbers that guys like Steve put up ARE impressive IMHO. Sometimes I fly realistically, sometimes I fly stupid...but I tell you, even if I consider only the times where I fly "smart", I can't do what they do. Even if I were to fly a Temp 100% of the time, never make a pass on anything at less than 400 mph, and never get bogged down trying to dogfight anything, I don't think I could do it, and I doubt 10% of the people posting on this board could. Let me say this: Yes, anyone can get a kill now and again on a "sleeper" diving in at 500mph and usually extend to survival, but the kills will be few and far between. Conversely, anyone (even me) can now and again hit an overshoot on an unwary diver and sting their tail feathers as they pass, then post a film of it to show their 'leetness. Not that this is easy to do consistently, but then again, neither is getting a savvy opponent to bite on a rope, or hitting a crossing shot while moving at high speed, etc. Yet for whatever reason, the former has some sort of sim pilot "moral high ground" over the latter.
Thinking of oneself as "leet" and not being impressed by people emulating Hartmann are two different things...
It's your $15, but here's my point of view: If you want to spend your online time in this absolutely consequence-free environment where death means nothing, running around practicing Dicta Boelke and pretending you're Hartmann, that's fine. Just don't expect much respect or adulation from those who run around pretending they're Marseille.
OT perhaps, but we all DO realize that Hartmann got into some dogfights? And Marseille was not an IDIOT. Cutting your throttle and dropping flaps to nail a turnfighter going around in a Luftberry may have been less conservative than standard German fighter dogma at the time, but its not tantamount to having that same Hurri on your long six with no closure and deciding you are going to try scissor with him "for fun" instead of diving away.
Personally, the people that impress me are the guys that take a plane "worse" than mine, and put up the absolute best fight they can. Win, lose, or draw, they've got my admiration.
Losing is losing period. I do it a lot myself, and it is neither admirable nor does it build character. My philosophy for AH and life in general is that if I/you lose, it means I/you didn't prepare properly, stupidly put myself/yourself in a bad situation, the Gods of Odds hate just plain hate me/you, or I/you are just naturally inferior. None of these possibilities are good in any way that I can see. Note my use of a bloody awkward combined pronoun to emphasize the fact that I judge myself by this standard, probably more harshly than I judge others.
I guess it's kind of like how a high school dropout turned millionaire will sell more autobiographies than a silver-spoon-fed guy who inherited his riches. People like the feisty underdog in life, and in this game, it's no different.
YMMV
If someone is telling me how to fly my plane in X conditions, I want to see their graveyards, make sense? If I am to emulate XYZ's method, I want to see lots and lots of carnage and them getting clean away with the dirty deed most of the time. And obviously, it must be something i can expect to practically carry off in relation to my own reflexes, skill at gunnery, and other natural factors. I'm not after a fan club, a "good fight" or a <S> after going down in flames. This doesn't mean I am uninterested in the techniques of disadvantaged fighting, since finding yourself at a disadvantage is the norm in a chaotic multi-bandit enviroment. Its just that disadvantaged fighting is not my religion and killing WITHOUT letting the other $%@%$@% return the favor is where my "bliss" is in this game most of the time.
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I prefer the Mustang.
It's a great plane to learn in as it does everything well ..not spectacular in any one area.
It makes you work to get good in.
It teaches you to use it's strengths against the opponents weakness.
If you can do well in the Stang .. you will be a terror in a zeke or spit or Wulf.
Just my 2 copper.
I useda fly the Stang for a month, then switch to another plane for a month, then back to the Stang .. for years.
Where it all came together was in scenarios.
Ya bay-bee .. adrenaline pumpin, hand shakin one-life to live fights ..
.. knowin how far that 109 could push it, and just how much you could get outta yer Stang.
It's the best at teaching you to fly and fight.
As Andy says 'good ol' Mustang' .. amen.
Oh ..and I ignore 200 most of the time, and laugh at the mo-rons.
Sometimes you can't buy entertainment like they provide.
(bein accused of hacking is a rite of passage, etc)
(ENABLE:Bulletsponge ON; ENABLE:NoDamage; ENABLE:LaserHits.. oh ..sorry ..did I hit ch200 by mistake? ..my bad)
-yanks chains right out of mo-rons-
-GE aka Frank (hiya Steve ..you goin to the AH Con?)
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I prefer the Mustang.
It's a great plane to learn in as it does everything well ..not spectacular in any one area.
It makes you work to get good in.
It teaches you to use it's strengths against the opponents weakness.
If you can do well in the Stang .. you will be a terror in a zeke or spit or Wulf.
Just my 2 copper.
I useda fly the Stang for a month, then switch to another plane for a month, then back to the Stang .. for years.
Where it all came together was in scenarios.
Ya bay-bee .. adrenaline pumpin, hand shakin one-life to live fights ..
.. knowin how far that 109 could push it, and just how much you could get outta yer Stang.
It's the best at teaching you to fly and fight.
As Andy says 'good ol' Mustang' .. amen.
Oh ..and I ignore 200 most of the time, and laugh at the mo-rons.
Sometimes you can't buy entertainment like they provide.
(bein accused of hacking is a rite of passage, etc)
(ENABLE:Bulletsponge ON; ENABLE:NoDamage; ENABLE:LaserHits.. oh ..sorry ..did I hit ch200 by mistake? ..my bad)
-yanks chains right out of mo-rons-
-GE aka Frank (hiya Steve ..you goin to the AH Con?)
Would like to Frank but dunno..... vette cruise!
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My 2p worth - dont let em get to ya Steve. Dont know if I've ever met you in the virtual air (cept for 1 time we were on the same side.....and I wanted to vulch ya..... :D) - its a game, and whilst some of the rubbish on 200 gets way too personal at times - ignore it or simply detune.
Oh, and I rarely if ever fly the 51's - I totally suck in them...lol....cant even sneak up on someone n kill em......(yes, I've tried...lol....failed miserably). That said, they are generally an interesting fight if you can stay close enough.
Wurzel
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P-51D's are easy mode. I hadn't flown one in months until last camp. One sortie, 7 kills, landed. The B's a little trickier to do well in.
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Losing is losing period. I do it a lot myself, and it is neither admirable nor does it build character. My philosophy for AH and life in general is that if I/you lose, it means I/you didn't prepare properly, stupidly put myself/yourself in a bad situation, the Gods of Odds hate just plain hate me/you, or I/you are just naturally inferior. None of these possibilities are good in any way that I can see. Note my use of a bloody awkward combined pronoun to emphasize the fact that I judge myself by this standard, probably more harshly than I judge others.
Well, I take this game as a sport... Just so you understand why I completely disagree with this paragraph. I guess our philosophy towards this game (and life in general, as you said) are just completely different.
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P-51D's are easy mode.
:lol
I see you mostly in a spixteen. :rofl
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:lol
I see you mostly in a spixteen. :rofl
I didn't say i'm opposed to easy mode planes. I just said P-51D's are easy mode.
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Well, I take this game as a sport...
In a sport, one tends to judge progress and ability by statistical measures though.
And in the chaotic multi-bandit MA environment, the sport is NOT just you vrs. an individual like a duel. I'm a good duelist, better duelist than MA player in fact. I often pay when I forget the MA situation is not the DA though. I have realized that playing the "sport" in the MA is more about gunnery, teamwork, and judging the situation than it is individual on-the-edge maneuvering. Even though these three things are NOT my strengths and the latter is. I don't consider the MA sport it better or worse, just different.
Oh, and by your "The underdog who fights hard against bad odds, win or lose" criterion, Chuck Wepner was the greatest HW boxer of all time. :D
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In a sport, one tends to judge progress and ability by statistical measures though.
And your "losing is losing" comment basically means you only care about winning (or conversely care too much about losing?), which is basically related to kill/death, a statistical measure found on the score page.
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I didn't say i'm opposed to easy mode planes. I just said P-51D's are easy mode.
Meh, I don't really agree with that. Get a 51 low and slow and it take some serious piloting to get that sucker home safe. Get a Spit XVI low and slow, and all the other planes are in trouble.
It's not like a noob can hop in a 51 and get kills, even BnZing takes some practice. When I was new I first flew the F6F-5, then someone told me to hop into a XVI, and holy hell I started railing people. Then I tried out the P-51D because I liked them, and couldn't kill a thing in one. I'd say it's far from easy mode.
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And your "losing is losing" comment basically means you only care about winning (or conversely care too much about losing?), which is basically related to kill/death, a statistical measure found on the score page.
I do realize there are ways to game the stats Krusty. But I like to think most AH players aren't exclusively vulching or killing a 2nd account.
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I do realize there are ways to game the stats Krusty. But I like to think most AH players aren't exclusively vulching or killing a 2nd account.
I can't speak for Krusty, but I think you completely missed his point.
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Yep