Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Bino on September 14, 2008, 05:00:10 PM
-
For use in late-war special events, could we please have the IJN's D4Y carrier-based dive bomber?
Also used as a recon bird, some sources call it the fastest carrier-based strike plane of the war. With over 2,000 produced, it was second to only the Zero among IJN carrier types in terms of the number deployed in service.
Thanks! :salute
Early model with liquid-cooled inverted-V engine:
(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/NavyJB&W3/D4Y-21.jpg)
Late model version with air-cooled radial engine:
(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/NavyJB&W4/D4Y3-26.jpg)
-
:aok :aok :aok
-
Yes, yes, yes yes and YES! PLEASE!
-
Would love to see the "Judy" come into play!! :aok
-
:aok
-
Yes! :aok
-
YES!!1!
-
Judy Judy Judy!
-Sik
-
Judy and Jill...
For once, something Denholm and I actually agree on! :salute
J
-
YES PLZ!!!!!! WE NEED SCOUT PLANES!!!!! :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
-
What a great addition this would be. Please move it near the top of the list.
-
Hey! What the pfargtl?!
-
I say es, and i liked how he laided out the facts to about production numbers, then showed a pic of 2 models of it i say yes all the way :rock :salute :pray :aok :aok :aok :aok
-
I say Hell YES!!! ....but we will never see it cause all the players of this game want is USA/GB/German planes ....
Helm ...out
-
Helm,
Quite a few do want Japanese, Russian and Italian planes too. Just not enough to sway any votes. And that is why a player vote for each addition would be dumb, something HTC well knows.
-
I say Hell YES!!! ....but we will never see it cause all the players of this game want is USA/GB/German planes ....
Helm ...out
I would hazard that the Japanese plane set is not that bad off. With the exception of the Betty being left out almost every airplane that made an impact on the war is included, at least those that would be competitive in the game. You can say you like the Judy all you want but I'm not aware of one successful attack by it. Fact is we shot them to bits far faster then they could make them.
I tale issue with the lack of a Russian level bomber. In my opinion, if actual wartime impact was used as a criteria, the Betty should come before the Judy, and the TU-2, B-29, and HE-111 before it also. And throw in Iron Annie as well.
Can anyone name a successful use of the Judy? Course by the time it was in production you'd almost feel sorry for the IJN going up against the juggernaut the USN was rapidly becoming.
-
Helm,
Quite a few do want Japanese, Russian and Italian planes too. Just not enough to sway any votes. And that is why a player vote for each addition would be dumb, something HTC well knows.
Well said in the last vote ..."any Japanese" plane got 6% of the vote..... thats weak
Helm ...out
-
Well said in the last vote ..."any Japanese" plane got 6% of the vote..... thats weak
Helm ...out
Yes giving the customers what they want is weak. :rolleyes:
Please look at this from a business standpoint.
-
Yes! :aok
-
Rich4yo,
If "impact on the war" is the only criteria then we should pretty much not have any Axis aircraft, as the Axis lost and therefor, when you get right down to it, Axis aircraft had no impact on the war. Certainly no late war Axis aircraft had any impact on the war and due to the lack of competition from late war Axis aircraft you might even say late war Allied aircraft had no impact on the war.
That is a stupid criteria.
As to a successful attack by the D4Y "Judy", look up the USS Franklin. She was most likely attacked by a D4Y "Judy" and removed from the war.
I am sure there were other, less impressive, successes as well.
-
:aok
-
Yes giving the customers what they want is weak. :rolleyes:
Please look at this from a business standpoint.
It's weak that there is no interest by the player base in Japanese aviation...thats whats weak....do I have to draw you a picture?? :rolleyes:
Helm ...out
-
Far too bias on this anti anything american Bs, tired of reading it day in and day out helm.
Anything new cant be bad, no matter what it is, or who makes it or how much it was used or even how sucessfull it was.
If it has wings, engines and at least one gun, it should be added. :rock
-
As to a successful attack by the D4Y "Judy", look up the USS Franklin. She was most likely attacked by a D4Y "Judy" and removed from the war.
I am sure there were other, less impressive, successes as well.
I thought the Princeton was done in by a Judy as well.
More to the point though, if you've ever played a mid or late war Pacific event, you would most likely see the need for the Judy.
-Sik
-
Far too bias on this anti anything american Bs, tired of reading it day in and day out helm.
Anything new cant be bad, no matter what it is, or who makes it or how much it was used or even how sucessfull it was.
If it has wings, engines and at least one gun, it should be added. :rock
I agree...
Except in the case of the b29
And just so long as we also get the HO-229 Flying Wing :D
-
i say yes all the way! another jap plane to fall in love with :aok
grey
-
Actually the B7A "Grace" would make more sense in AH (not sure if it could carry bomb(s) or not). It was a bit faster and had 2 x 20mm vs the 7.7mm mg's in the Judy.
-
Actually the B7A "Grace" would make more sense in AH (not sure if it could carry bomb(s) or not). It was a bit faster and had 2 x 20mm vs the 7.7mm mg's in the Judy.
You are suggesting a plane in place of a dive bomber of which you are not sure if it carried bombs or not? :confused:
Grace was a torpedo bomber first, it is said that it could carry the same amount of bombs what the torpedo weights (800kg). AFAIK the bombbay had only two racks for bombs so I think that would limit its bombload even further to 2x250kg. With only little over a hundred made I think it's clear that Judy is the dive bomber and Jill is the torpedo bomber which should be added to the Japanese planeset well before Grace.
-
B7A also arrived too late to see much service/action. It's also another late war 1944/45 plane, which we don't need so much for the Japanese right now.
-
Rich4yo,
If "impact on the war" is the only criteria then we should pretty much not have any Axis aircraft, as the Axis lost and therefor, when you get right down to it, Axis aircraft had no impact on the war. Certainly no late war Axis aircraft had any impact on the war and due to the lack of competition from late war Axis aircraft you might even say late war Allied aircraft had no impact on the war.
That is a stupid criteria.
As to a successful attack by the D4Y "Judy", look up the USS Franklin. She was most likely attacked by a D4Y "Judy" and removed from the war.
I am sure there were other, less impressive, successes as well.
No its not "stupid criteria". Because impact doesn't necessarily mean "successful impact", what it means is "presence" "availability" "inclusion"...ect When I said "as a criteria" I meant as one of several criteria, even tho I also mean "impact" as being the most important "criteria". You are also right in that all the powers in the war need aircraft in the game. That to is a criteria, and one lovers of the Japanese plane set can hardly complain about.
There are even more accounts that attack on the Franklin was made by a D3A Val then a Judy, "and we already have the D3A". And while a devastating attack the CV survived and a once great navy, and naval air arm, was long dead anyways. Had the Franklin not been 50 miles off the Japanese coast she would never had been in danger and to give a Judy credit for it is simply surmise.
And after The Marianas, where IJN aviation died, and where the Judy was slaughtered wholesale, it became just another medium range land based dive bomber outclassed by the latest USN fighters. Had the large fast IJN CVs survived long enough maybe it would have had some impact but the fact is they didn't and "it" didn't.
I think the Betty deserves inclusion first. But even that would probably end up a hangar queen. The simple fact is that the Japanese aviation industrial base just couldn't keep up with the Industrial juggernauts of America, England, Germany, and Russia. Theres just no way around that fact. And since 95% of the action is in the MAs you have to use "survivability" and "usability" as a criteria too. Whats the use of going to all that trouble to model a Queen?
Modeled correctly the Judy would be nothing more then a ronson lighter Kamikaze plane that any Hellcat could easily slaughter, and, outclass as a dive bomber. This is all just my opinion and you have as much right to yours as I have to mine. <S>
-
...
And since 95% of the action is in the MAs you have to use "survivability" and "usability" as a criteria too. Whats the use of going to all that trouble to model a Queen?
...
If you look at my initial post, you'll see that I specifically requested the D4Y for use in late-war special events. Compared to events, I really don't care all that much for the MA, personally. As you say, to each his own. :salute
-
If a plane was produced (and meets AH2 criteria to be incliuded) and proved to have a potential for a great score card (ability to hang in the LW arenas) due to its ability (speed, climb, turn, guns, ord, etc), but it didnt have a major impact on the war due to factors far away from the plane itself... then there is no reason not to include it other than HTC's own yay-nay sysem.
I think the dual engined Bf110 inspired Ki-45 "Nick" would be a better fit (as I have said in other threads) than any other Japanese plane at the moment. It best fills the gap in the Jap line up, IMO. The Ki-45 was used as a bomber intercepter and ground attack platform with great success. It was armed with a 20mm, 37mm, and could carry a pair of 500lb bombs mounted under the wings.
Or...
the GM4 "Betty" bomber would be nice to see as well. Although, it really doesnt offer much over the Ki-67 we already have, 'cept for another 1k of bombs and two 20mm cannons for defense. None the less, it was Japan's most widely used and important bomber, imo.
-
You are suggesting a plane in place of a dive bomber of which you are not sure if it carried bombs or not? :confused:
Grace was a torpedo bomber first, it is said that it could carry the same amount of bombs what the torpedo weights (800kg). AFAIK the bombbay had only two racks for bombs so I think that would limit its bombload even further to 2x250kg. With only little over a hundred made I think it's clear that Judy is the dive bomber and Jill is the torpedo bomber which should be added to the Japanese planeset well before Grace.
I'm suggesting a plane that would fit for the MA environment. Since no clear data on its actual bomb load out was readily available I stuck with what was factually correct. Your commenting on me but then you use the " i think" and "limit".
What should be added or not added is speculative and based on points of view. While I agree 100% that scenario/FSO needs are very important what we're actually getting tends to be MA driven Wirble, Firefly, T-34/85 etc.
If the Grace can carry 2x 500K fly 352mph and have 2 x 20mm guns then its a very viable carrier strike bird that would get a lot of use in the MA. It would also be a great low perk bomber option given its rarity, speed and cannon.
I think the Judy would be a great addition as well and obviously much more accurate for scenario's but when viewed from a MA perspective the G.55 is the most likely addition. Beyond that the Grace might just be the most intriguing addition that fits the "rules"...
-
And after The Marianas, where IJN aviation died, and where the Judy was slaughtered wholesale, it became just another medium range land based dive bomber outclassed by the latest USN fighters. Had the large fast IJN CVs survived long enough maybe it would have had some impact but the fact is they didn't and "it" didn't.
Luckily this is AH, and not WWII. The Judy, if included still COULD have an impact on battles from Midway (as a scout) to the fall of Japan. 1 big problem with the Judy in combat was the lack of trained pilots to fly them, thanks to the bulk of the veteran pilots buying it in Vals. We don't have that problem in AH Events. In AH Events The Air Wing of a 1944 Shokaku has just as many experienced pilots as a 1941 Hiryu.
I appreciate that it would have almost zero use in the MA, but it would fair about a billion times better vs. a Hellcat than the D3A. There are tons of "Queens" that get modeled in the game. Development of the planeset has always split between SEA and MA. While I have no problem with the bulk of the planes being focused on the MA, I think that the SEA deserves attention too.
I believe that the Mid-late war IJN Carrier Strike Plane is the biggest hole in the planeset for which there is no conceivable substitute. While the Grace would have better (yet still limited) MA appeal, I like Judy for her mid-war availability and the considerable jump in strike capability she provides over the existing IJN stike planes (same bomb-load, greater speed and maneuverability)
-Sik
-
I'm suggesting a plane that would fit for the MA environment. Since no clear data on its actual bomb load out was readily available I stuck with what was factually correct. Your commenting on me but then you use the " i think" and "limit".
What should be added or not added is speculative and based on points of view. While I agree 100% that scenario/FSO needs are very important what we're actually getting tends to be MA driven Wirble, Firefly, T-34/85 etc.
If the Grace can carry 2x 500K fly 352mph and have 2 x 20mm guns then its a very viable carrier strike bird that would get a lot of use in the MA. It would also be a great low perk bomber option given its rarity, speed and cannon.
I think the Judy would be a great addition as well and obviously much more accurate for scenario's but when viewed from a MA perspective the G.55 is the most likely addition. Beyond that the Grace might just be the most intriguing addition that fits the "rules"...
I just found it a bit odd that you would rather have and aircraft in place of a dive bomber of which you aren't sure if it carried bombs or not. ~350mph strike aircraft with no air to mud ordinance...can't really see how the 20mms are gonna help in that situation. I can't really see the point about the MA either, unless someone wants to specifically fly Japanese/axis a/c only, since we have loads of carrier borne jabos with much more ordinance, speed and armament.
Unless someone knows better, I've read that it had two hard points in its bombbay. AFAIK Japanese didn't have 400kg bombs. Whether a 500kg bomb would fit into the bombay with 250kg one I do not know. That way the bomb load could be 750kg, 50kgs short of the torpedo weight. Two 500kg ones would go 200kgs over that and 800kg is the maximum ordinance quoted in most sources.
AFAIK all the carrier planes in AH flew of the carriers operationally during the war (some more, some less). While Grace designed as a carrier plane it never flew off carriers operationally because Japan didn't have any operational when Grace started its very short service. I guess its matter of opinion whether it should be available from carriers in AH...personally I think it would be streching it a bit too far.
Btw, here's some discussion about the short operational history of the Grace:
http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php?topic=6353.0 (http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php?topic=6353.0)
-
For use in late-war special events, could we please have the IJN's D4Y carrier-based dive bomber?
Also used as a recon bird, some sources call it the fastest carrier-based strike plane of the war. With over 2,000 produced, it was second to only the Zero among IJN carrier types in terms of the number deployed in service.
Thanks! :salute
Early model with liquid-cooled inverted-V engine:
(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/NavyJB&W3/D4Y-21.jpg)
Late model version with air-cooled radial engine:
(http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/NavyJB&W4/D4Y3-26.jpg)
would love to see this too
-
I just found it a bit odd that you would rather have and aircraft in place of a dive bomber of which you aren't sure if it carried bombs or not. ~350mph strike aircraft with no air to mud ordinance...can't really see how the 20mms are gonna help in that situation. I can't really see the point about the MA either, unless someone wants to specifically fly Japanese/axis a/c only, since we have loads of carrier borne jabos with much more ordinance, speed and armament.
Unless someone knows better, I've read that it had two hard points in its bombbay. AFAIK Japanese didn't have 400kg bombs. Whether a 500kg bomb would fit into the bombay with 250kg one I do not know. That way the bomb load could be 750kg, 50kgs short of the torpedo weight. Two 500kg ones would go 200kgs over that and 800kg is the maximum ordinance quoted in most sources.
AFAIK all the carrier planes in AH flew of the carriers operationally during the war (some more, some less). While Grace designed as a carrier plane it never flew off carriers operationally because Japan didn't have any operational when Grace started its very short service. I guess its matter of opinion whether it should be available from carriers in AH...personally I think it would be streching it a bit too far.
Btw, here's some discussion about the short operational history of the Grace:
http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php?topic=6353.0 (http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php?topic=6353.0)
It was a carrier capable plane so no question in that regard IMO. No doubt its a late war bird and of limited value in scenario's etc. And in no way am I against the Judy at all. The Grace would get a fair amount of use in the MA I think since its a bomber/attack plane that could also de-ack pretty well and be somewhat survivable. Id love to try it in an air to air role. Give me an SBD with 2 x 20mm and I'd wreak some havoc:)
-
This is the best write up I could find, which states it was actually designed to replace the D4Y1...
The Aichi B7A Ryusei was an outstanding dual role torpedo / dive bomber designed to replace the Nakajima B6N Tenzan and the Yokosuka D4Y Suisei in Imperial Japanese Navy service. It had excellent maneuverability and high performance. Unfortunately, the B7A Ryusei, like many other late war Japanese military aircraft, did not make a significant impact in Japan's declining fortunes.
The B7A Ryusei was designed to meet a 1941 Imperial Japanese Navy requirement to replace the Nakajima B6N Tenzan and the Yokosuka D4Y Suisei, which were just starting to fly as prototypes. Although it first flew in May 1942, teething trouble with the Nakajima Homare 11 engine delayed the Ryusei's service entry until after mid 1944.
The Ryusei design was outstanding. As a torpedo and dive bomber, it's speed, weapons load, and range were equal to or superior to that of the Curtiss SB2D Helldiver and the Grumman TBF Avenger. The Nakajima Homare 11 radial engine, gave the B7A Ryusei a high rate of climb and a top speed of 352 mph. This was as fast as the Mitsubishi A6M Zero and only 28 mph slower than the US Navy's Grumman F6F Hellcat. Maneuverability was also excellent and equivalent to the A6M Zero.
The Ryusei was one of the largest and heaviest attack craft in the Imperial Japanese Navy arsenal. Clearly intended for use with Japan's larger fleet carriers, it arrived too late to make an impact on the war. The Imperial Japanese Navy had lost most of it's large fleet carriers at Midway, the Philippine Sea, and Leyte Gulf by the time the Ryusei entered service. The Ryusei served from land bases and many were lost in kamikaze attacks at the end of the war.
By the end of the war only 105 were built. The small production numbers is largely the fault a large earthquake which destroyer the Aichi factory at Funakata in May 1945.
The last surviving example of a Aichi B7A Ryusei is in the US National Air and Space Museum. The US Navy brought it back from Japan for evaluation after the war. After completing evaluations, the US Navy turned it over to the Smithsonian Institution. It is currently in storage in Maryland awaiting restoration.
-
Whats interesting is that multiple sites have it being capable of beating a zero in handling and ACM....
-
Far too bias on this anti anything american Bs, tired of reading it day in and day out helm.
Thats funny.... because I say that we have alot of USA planes to fly and very few Japanese planes to fly I am labled 'Anti'- american ....
Helm ...out
-
Thats funny.... because I say that we have alot of USA planes to fly and very few Japanese planes to fly I am labled 'Anti'- american ....
Helm ...out
I'm always a bit curious about that. Trying to look at things objectively every major German fighter variant is portrayed. The majority of the British fighters are portrayed (more engine variations with the spits then the 109's). The Oscar is the biggest gap in the Japanese set, with few of the missing planes otherwise having large production runs. While the Russian plane set is more fragmented the reality is that the lend-lease planes are more important up till mid 43 and the la-5/7 and Yak-9 U/T really do represent the bulk of the 44-45 plane set (along with the P-39Q). The 202/205 is a good representation of the Italian plane set for 1943 (recognizing early war planes are totally missing).
From a functional perspective we have the vast majority of major planes on all sides. While the he-111 or Me-410 or PE-2 or A-26 are potentially nice none are really needed. In reality the single most important plane missing was the P-39. The Oscar would be next up and realistically the Judy...but functionally planes like the 410, A-26, Pe-2 are functionally redundant.
-
Humble, it depends on how you look at it. You are focusing on numbers built, which is valid in one way. I, and I suspect Helm, look also at the variety of types build. Japan fielded a very large number of combat types while not having the industrial base to produce them in the tens of thousands, often not even in the thousands. But they did have a very large variety of combat aircraft types, second only to the USA. And more types means more flavor to the game, and that is another valid way of looking at it.
Too my mind the Japanese and Russian sets need the most attention. Then the Italians. The British and Germans still have some significant holes too.
Here is a list of Japanese aircraft that would not be horrible in the MA:
A6M3a (a halfway mark between the A6Ms we have)
B6N (mid war carrier strike plane, more than 1200 built)
B7A1 (late war carrier strike plane, never operated from carriers, more than 100 built)
D4Y (very fast carrier strike plane, more than 2000 built)
J2M3a (fast climbing interceptor, about 500 built)
Ki-44 (mid war fighter armed with four 12.7mm guns, more than 1200 built)
Ki-46 (recon and heavy fighter, more than 1700 built)
Ki-102 (late war strike aircraft and heavy fighter, more than 200 built)
N1K1-J (earlier version of the N1K2-J, less ammo, almost 1000 built)
P1Y1 (Fast medium bomber, more than 1000 built)
-
While I agree the japanese planeset is lacking, I disagree as to how.
B7a1 saw little to no service, not even starting production until late 1944 and stopping in May 1945 when an earthquake destroyed the factory.
Ki-46 was mostly unarmed recon planes (of that 1700). Only the Kai-III had weapons installed, and of the 600 Kai-III produced most were still unarmed. A number were modified to carry 2x 20mm in the nose and an oblique cannon, but many were converted to night fighters to attack B-29s (this was one of the few reliable planes that could get up to the B-29s). I'd rather see the Ki-45, which saw a lot more service but had lesser armaments (often mixed MG or a single 37mm with limited ammo).
Ki-102 saw limited use on Okinawa. That's it. Only 200 or so made and those were held on the mainland in preparation of dropping special bombs (maybe kamikaze, would be my guess?) on allies that invaded. I don't even think they used - just stored for future use.
P1Y1: As much as I love the lines and performance on this, of the 1000 built they only had a handful of skilled crews to use them, and less gas. Some were relegated to kamikaze (I have a pic from a book of one before it hits the water) and some with better engines were used as night fighters. As nice as it is, it would be dishonest to say it was representative of the WW2 Japanese.
I'd like to see the Ki-27. MANY built. Was a frontline fighter for the entire first year of the war, as well as a major enemy of the Flying Tigers. Ki-44 and Ki-43 for obvious reasons. D4Y for an inline early/mid dive bomber. Jack for an interceptor. A6m5C or later weapons option to allow it to fight later-war planes with more firepower. Ki-45 because it was widely used as a medium (heavy for the Japanese?) fighter. B6N Jill as a later replacement for the B5N Kate. G4M Betty just because it's vital. G3M Nell because it would be a nice early war model that saw service. Over 1000 built of the G3M2 and G3M3 (the G3M1 was mostly for service trials) and it saw service in the Chinese front and was produced until 1941. Oh, it also has a 20mm dorsal cannon ;)
-
No question that there are an interesting variety of Japanese planes. Looking just at the Ki-44 as a single possibility. Are we getting all of them or the original type I, Type IIb or the late war type III?
I've always thought the Jack would be a great addition but are we looking at the M3a (of which just 26 were built) or the 2JM3 (~260) or the 2JM2 (~155) or other rare sub types? Recognizing the Judy, Oscar and Betty (and very possibley the Ki-46 as well) are essential for scenarios they are inevitable. Realistically some plane like the 2JM3 (not eh 3a IMO) is needed for late war "home defense" scenarios as well.
Once you get into the lower production birds you have all kinds of possibilities. Personally I disagree with a number of the "rules" for selection criteria. I'll look at 4 planes specifically, the Grace as Krusty mentioned was stopped by an earthquake. Does it have any real place in scenarios...no. However it was a production late war plane that was fully operational and fits in a simulated WW2 flight sim just fine.
The D0-335 was ordered into priority production in 1944, the original tooling was bombed and Henkiel dragged its feet with stopping the ordered swap out to the point that the D0-335 was never produced. Again no place in scenarios but a late war production plane that fits just fine in a sim.
The Meteor was operational and fully capable of combat operations but not deployed (a few flew in Belgium I think) as was the US F7F that was actually delivered to a state side operational squadron in May of 1944. None of these planes belong in any historical reenactment of the war but all are actual production planes that were in service well before the end of the war.
-
I disagree with the mentality of "it was made, it fits into a sim" because you're taking the feel of WW2 away from the game. All of a sudden it's Luft '46 in IL2 all over again.
-
Krusty,
That list was only of aircraft that wouldn't entirely suck in the MA. I listed under that criteria as the all to frequent call is "But that would be useless in the MA" to any suggestion that isn't a 1944 or 1945 aircraft. If I had been listing just any Japanese aircraft the list would have been much, much longer.
I disagree with the mentality of "it was made, it fits into a sim" because you're taking the feel of WW2 away from the game. All of a sudden it's Luft '46 in IL2 all over again.
So what are your criteria? Using the B7A1 as an example, you say it has no place, I think it is low priority to be added due to low numbers but is a viable entry.
-
That list was only of aircraft that wouldn't entirely suck in the MA.
Oh, sorry.
As for viable late war planes, I think the P1Y has good performance and good numbers, despite lack of use historically. It would blow the Ki67 away I think. 20mm in the nose, 20mm dorsal, claims it can outrun allied planes on the deck, super long range, etc.
The Jack is also a contender for late war. Not that it's uber, but it had firepower, climb, and top speed, capable enough to hunt bombers. Always a plus in this game!
-
I disagree with the mentality of "it was made, it fits into a sim" because you're taking the feel of WW2 away from the game. All of a sudden it's Luft '46 in IL2 all over again.
Yes and no, if we're dealing with a historical re-enactment certainly. However if we're dealing with a combat flight sim whose plane set is defined as planes that were production variants (as opposed to prototypes etc) then we have an entirely different animal. Currently we seem to have a "saw combat" criteria which I think is a bit unfortunate since it removes planes that were very much available like the Meteor or who's production was derailed do to natural disaster (Grace) or act of war (Do-335) or politics (F-7F). What exactly is the "feel of WW2". Is it a spit IX in the early war arena or P-51 in the mid war or a 262 in the late war? WW2 wasn't "a game" it was a bloodbath. This however is a game and it allows whatever leeway the designer wants.
No question that combat theater will address the "feel" of the actual war and provide a more immersive environment for those who want it. IMO the MA is just a place to play with the toys that were available at the time. Personally I'd love the Grace, just like my A-20 I'd be out hunting scalps not carrying the mail with it. But I'd love to see the Do-335, meteor and F7F as well. In fact if we look just at the D0-335 we have one of the most intriguing stories of the war.
The plane was actually available in 1942 (Suprisingly its a 1939 design that Goring canceled development of in 1940). It then was awarded a production contract in mid 1942 which was then canceled before a later protype was ordered. It 1st flew in 10/43 and was ordered into rush production in May 1944.
So here we have a fighter that might very well have entirely blunted the US daylight bombing campaign that was delayed and altered while inferior planes like the 109 & 190 continued to be upgraded and produced. Had the D0-335 been produced in early 1943 in large numbers the entire course of the air war might have altered...so yes I'd love to see it as the single biggest "what might have been" question of the WW2 air war.
-
There is a mental connection to the past when playing this game. There is a "feel" for the time it is framed within.
You would no sooner feel like flying in WW2 if you saw a Dr.I off your wing than you would seeing a Do-335 off your wing.
There is a historical context for this game, and I think limiting it to planes that actually participated is a good way of maintaining that.
Any "outside" aircraft causes a mental disconnect and you feel like you're in the random arcade game than a WW2 flight sim.
-
Perhaps a MTW* arena? ;)
* Missed The War
-
But they didnt miss the war, thats the point. There are plenty of planes like the F8F that did in fact "miss the war". 616 squadron was operational and flying Meteors in July 1944. The improved mark III's enter operational service in Dec of 1944. 616 Squadron was moved to continent in Jan of 45 and flew combat operations till the end of the war. They accounted for 46 enemy planes destroyed on the ground but engaged in no air to air combat...
-
Judy............... Yes Please.
-
Another easy kill :D
:aok