Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hangtime on September 16, 2008, 07:04:33 PM
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85 Billion to AIG.
Stupid, idiotic morons...
I can't fathom just what in hell it is they plan to fund this with short of turning on the presses down in the treasury dept's basement.
Bonehaids.
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I have to agree with you HT
This "too big to fail" thinking is bs
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They should be jailing CEOs and letting these corps burn...
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85 Billion to AIG.
Stupid, idiotic morons...
I can't fathom just what in hell it is they plan to fund this with short of turning on the presses down in the treasury dept's basement.
Bonehaids.
So will this go on the 4th or 5th set of books the government carries? :mad: :huh
Regards,
Sun
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I watched Hank Greenberg's interview on CNBC this morning, he sure has changed his point of view on government meddling in the private sector.
shamus
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I have sales quotas to make each month, If I don't make them, will the govt. help me out?
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As I understand it, they're only loans? AIG actually HAS enough resources, they just have to be 'liquefied'
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85 Billion to AIG.
Stupid, idiotic morons...
I can't fathom just what in hell it is they plan to fund this with short of turning on the presses down in the treasury dept's basement.
Bonehaids.
And to add to the stupidy. If the fed had bailed them out Friday, it would have cost around 20 billion. Their credit rating was down graded over weekend hence 85 billion. Nice!
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They should be jailing CEOs and letting these corps burn...
Why is it that these CEO's never end up being held responsible for their actions?
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So how many bailouts can you remember in last 8 years.
Airlines(how many?), AIG, Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac.. bunch of others I can't remember.
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As I understand it, they're only loans? AIG actually HAS enough resources, they just have to be 'liquefied'
And the private sector passed on making loans to AIG because of?
If those "resources" could carry it they would be lining up at the door.
shamus
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Why is it that these CEO's never end up being held responsible for their actions?
What's worse is it seems as long as they don't screw the pooch big time(IE do more then bankrupt the company,like go to jail) some other corp will hire them.
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So how many bailouts can you remember in last 8 years.
Airlines(how many?), AIG, Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac.. bunch of others I can't remember.
Im not too sure about the airlines, but the last 4 have been in the last six months.
shamus
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I applaud the brilliant Corporate strategy in figuring out how to profitably finalize the complete absorption of the federal government of the United States of America.
Didn't Trump say it... 'Borrow a million, the bank owns you. Borrow a billion, you own the bank'.
Ain't no coming back from this one.
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Oh I dont know...when all the folks running around with a few hundred grand in a 401 realize that they really are not part of the rich class things may change.
The discussion we had in here a few month ago about the capitol gains tax rate was eye opening, folks defending the fact that hedge fund managers were paying 15% of income in tax on millions of earnings?
The standard of living has not lowered enough for the middle class yet in this country.
shamus
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yup. when daddy day trader has to eat the family dog we'll get some action.
You betcha!
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Smart move by the feds, speaking long term.
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Smart move by the feds, speaking long term.
Where is the money coming from to pay for this though?
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Don't hate me for this one
If the government keeps bailing out large corporations by buying them isn't this how communism starts. :O
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"mom! bernanke is being a dick!!"
who is that guy.. cripes; he just made the fed the biggest investment share holder on wall street.
must be a haaavard boy.
*sigh*
Where is the money coming from to pay for this though?
Well, this appointee.. the guy that just buried us in the last 6 months with what..? 500 billion?.. has a theory. It's why they hired him..:
Bernanke gave a speech about deflation.[13] In that speech, he mentioned that the government in a fiat money system owns the physical means of creating money. Control of the means of production for money implies that the government can always avoid deflation by simply issuing more money. (He referred to a statement made by Milton Friedman about using a "helicopter drop" of money into the economy to fight deflation.) Bernanke's critics have since referred to him as "Helicopter Ben" or to his "helicopter printing press". In a footnote to his speech, Bernanke noted that "people know that inflation erodes the real value of the government's debt and, therefore, that it is in the interest of the government to create some inflation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Bernanke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Bernanke)
Helicopter Ben... ?
we are sooooooo screwed.
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And the private sector passed on making loans to AIG because of?
If those "resources" could carry it they would be lining up at the door.
shamus
Lol who has 85 billion dollars to toss out--aside from it being a loan, there are suppposed to be strings attached. (AIG has 74 MILLION policies worldwide, some 175 thousand employees, it was decided to give them time enough to liquidate some assets)
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Don't hate me for this one
If the government keeps bailing out large corporations by buying them isn't this how communism starts. :O
Nah we'll be broke before that.
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the neocons... are making socialism hip again.
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AIG's CEO has been fired, the money is a 24 month loan, the govt got 80 interest in AIG, rumor is that because AIG interests are world wide foreign govt/banks put some of the money in the pot. Jobs were saved, stock markets in other countries are up , the world is not coming to a end.
sometimes you have to fix the problem instead of just crying about it.
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85 Billion to AIG.
Stupid, idiotic morons...
I can't fathom just what in hell it is they plan to fund this with short of turning on the presses down in the treasury dept's basement.
Bonehaids.
I said this in another thread, and I'll say it again. AIG's collapse would have been felt far outside the realm of the US. If someone did not step up, you can be sure that the market's would most definitely have tanked worse than they the little hiccup of Monday.
As it was already mentioned, AIG is not being "given" the money, but instead is receiving a government backed loan to create the time for them to sell off assets to more stable firms. While I do not agree with "Government Bailouts", I do feel that this is the right course of action in this case. The good far out ways the bad in this situation. In the end though, the corporate officers that allowed this nonsense to happen in the first place definitely need some form of punishment if it is found they were cooking the boks or anything else that is even remotely illegal.
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AIG's CEO has been fired, the money is a 24 month loan, the govt got 80 interest in AIG, rumor is that because AIG interests are world wide foreign govt/banks put some of the money in the pot. Jobs were saved, stock markets in other countries are up , the world is not coming to a end.
sometimes you have to fix the problem instead of just crying about it.
Smart move by the feds, speaking long term.
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AIG's CEO has been fired
John, googled the firing of AIG's CEO. Really can't find much. Passing reference from June of this year. You have links reporting firings over their insolvency?
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I think some people should go to jail but.. they are not alone.. the fed is bailing out most of these people because.. they are complicit in the problem in the first place...
Forcing these companies to make bad loans to low income and minorities was not a good way to go.. the government should not be involved at all in the loan companies save when it gets to court or at most.. putting a cap on interest.
Since there is no consequences for doing business badly..the companies will continue to do so.. since there is no consequence for making the companies give out bad low income and minority loans.. the government will continue to force it...
lazs
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hap, the CEO "was allowed to resign".
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Jobs were saved, stock markets in other countries are up , the world is not coming to a end.
Stock markets in alot of countries in Europe are crashing atm.
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I would rather the government fund the replacement of my roof instead of bailing out Wall Street. Funny how they keep preaching about the free market economy until the free market impacts Wall Street. Then they want Wall Street welfare at government expense. I don't want my tax dollars going to Wall Street. They ought to sink all that money into health care.
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"Just" giving out quick loans yeah. I wonder why they didn't just give it to the other banks who were allowed to sink. I wonder where all the 10-years worth of spectacular growth ($$$) went.
In modern capitalism wins are privatized and losses are socialized.
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OK, you guys have convinced me, I have always been against government bail outs of the private sector, but if you cant beat em join em.
When they were talking about shooting the auto companies 50 billion in loans I sent my rep an email expressing my displeasure with the idea.
I just sent him one recanting that and stating my support of the program, I guess its time to be pragmatic, redirecting tax money from the rest of the country to Michigan will be good for the local economy and lord knows we need it.
shamus
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AIG made stupid decisions in the credit-default swap business that ultimately put them in a cash crunch. AIG is a private corporation that's not directly regulated by the federal government. So the Treasury has no responsibility to protect them from the consequences of their stupid decisions.
Although it's a loan, in exchange the Fed is getting warrants (options to buy stock) so we are in effect buying AIG -- something nobody in the private sector wants to do.
I addition to the principle of the thing and the moral-hazard consequences of this precedent the biggest risk is this: if the Treasury continues to expand it's debt commitment like this, at some point the world will lose faith in Treasury debt. At that point, the Treasury would face the same situation as AIG -- and who's gonna bail out the US Treasury?
That would be real catastrophe.
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AIG made stupid decisions in the credit-default swap business that ultimately put them in a cash crunch. AIG is a private corporation that's not directly regulated by the federal government. So the Treasury has no responsibility to protect them from the consequences of their stupid decisions.
Although it's a loan, in exchange the Fed is getting warrants (options to buy stock) so we are in effect buying AIG -- something nobody in the private sector wants to do.
I addition to the principle of the thing and the moral-hazard consequences of this precedent the biggest risk is this: if the Treasury continues to expand it's debt commitment like this, at some point the world will lose faith in Treasury debt. At that point, the Treasury would face the same situation as AIG -- and who's gonna bail out the US Treasury?
That would be real catastrophe.
I'm no expert. Hell, as far as wall street is concerned, I'm sub-human. (I have no debt load) As a guy well versed in kitchen table economics and as a small business owner that is watching his customers begin running around in circles banging into each other and wailing like lost puppies.. instead of buying my widgets.. I'm scared.
This makes no sense... if my business was doing the tidy bowl twirl, nobody would step up with anybody's money to save my arse. So Unca Sam steps in, bails them with a loan. "well good, that'll restore confidence, save the economy' the experts say.
So why are the markets still tanking? Why are the customers still wailing?
Why am I sitting here typing this instead of heading for the retreat in the hills?
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So why are the markets still tanking? Why are the customers still wailing?
Hell, I'm less an expert than you, but my take is that having the Fed prop up poorly run businesses ain't fixing the problem. And the market knows that.
The primary problem right now is the housing-credit bubble is popping. You can argue all day long what caused that (cough/Greenspan excessive rate cuts/cough) but that horse has left the barn. The only way to fix this is to let the market find the bottom. The quicker we get this over with the better.
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Hell, I'm less an expert than you, but my take is that having the Fed prop up poorly run businesses ain't fixing the problem. And the market knows that.
The primary problem right now is the housing-credit bubble is popping. You can argue all day long what caused that (cough/Greenspan excessive rate cuts/cough) but that horse has left the barn. The only way to fix this is to let the market find the bottom. The quicker we get this over with the better.
Ok, hence the 'bloodletting'... but aren't we in bigtime deficit spending mode already? What happens if the patient runs outta blood before the decline bottoms? Isn't that the more likely scenario?
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Stiffen up Laddie, now's not the time for panic.
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ok. You'll let me know when I should head fer the redoubt?
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Should I start buying gold and silver nuggets so I can get food in 20 years?
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I'm suffering some credit problems myself. Since I have to pay my yard guy and he sends $$ back to his family in Colombia, my credit crunch has a potential global impact. Will someone bail me out?
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Hell, I'm less an expert than you, but my take is that having the Fed prop up poorly run businesses ain't fixing the problem. And the market knows that.
The primary problem right now is the housing-credit bubble is popping. You can argue all day long what caused that (cough/Greenspan excessive rate cuts/cough) but that horse has left the barn. The only way to fix this is to let the market find the bottom. The quicker we get this over with the better.
I think that the reality of the Fed popping up AIG has more to do with allowing people to have faith in all that AIG has it's hands in. That is everything from Insurance to retirements... If they fold, a lot of people were going to start running around in circles and then instead of giving a loan with a possibility of return, they instead give the money in social programs to people that no longer have any retirement....
Which is the lesser of the two evils.
Also, Myelo, I very much agree with you in that at our current rate of expansion of treasury debt commitment, when will the world lose faith over it?
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Isn't it grand what Greed and basic stupidity can accomplish?
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Yup. Grand indeed.
(http://www.timboucher.com/journal/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/Line%20of%20Workers%20during%20Depression.jpg)
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Hangtime...they have no one to blame but themselves. Unfortunately lots will suffer the consequences of their greed.
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i'm the guy at the end of the line.
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Stiffen up Laddie, now's not the time for panic.
He who panics first, panics best... :D