Aces High Bulletin Board

Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Anaxogoras on September 20, 2008, 12:40:30 PM

Title: Vulching?
Post by: Anaxogoras on September 20, 2008, 12:40:30 PM
I'm sure we'll all heard the same thing on 200 during the middle of the event last night.  Is vulching frowned upon or not allowed in FSO?  Bomber pilots were given warning that if they re-armed and left drones otr to make a 2nd strike, those drones would be fair targets.
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: Sled on September 20, 2008, 03:47:03 PM
There are no rules aginst shooting AC on the ground.

Only exception, Pilots may not bail from their AC and shoot enemy AC on the ground with their .45 pistol. That is in the rules.

Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: daddog on September 20, 2008, 03:48:16 PM
Quote
Is vulching frowned upon or not allowed in FSO?
No rule against it. As for being frowned upon, depends on who you talk to. I will vulch in a heart beat depending on the circumstances. Some never will.  :salute
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: powerhog on September 20, 2008, 04:04:27 PM
its time to vulch vulch vulch :aok i dont know if you ask me targets on the ground are open for attack  that is why it has been stated you should have cap at airfield to protect the rearming a/c. and i dont think it is the same as in the ma where someone deacks the field and comes back just to pick off a/c trying to take off :salute powerhog
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: oakranger on September 20, 2008, 05:40:10 PM

Only exception, Pilots may not bail from their AC and shoot enemy AC on the ground with their .45 pistol. That is in the rules.



I am guilty of assassinating the axis CiC on ground with the .45.  I didn't know that there was a ruling on that until i was informed about that.  :eek:
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: Dantoo on September 20, 2008, 07:45:06 PM
I personally vulch Daddog and Sled whenever I get the opportunity!  :D
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: fudgums on September 20, 2008, 07:46:12 PM
hmm is shooting aircraft on the hotpad considered vulching?
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: Sled on September 20, 2008, 07:48:10 PM
I personally vulch Daddog and Sled whenever I get the opportunity!  :D

Well at least I am in good company. ;)
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: daddog on September 21, 2008, 11:40:07 AM
Going to make a squad award for anyone who shoots down Dantoo. ;)
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: APDrone on September 21, 2008, 12:52:02 PM
Well, to toss out a differing opinion...

I do not believe vulching belongs in FSO. 

It was generally considered suicidal ( if I recall my readings properly ) to fly over an enemy airfield more than once.

Now, if they could set the lethality of anti-aircraft defenses at airfields separately from other targets, then set the lethality to .... say, 3.0  or 4.0, .. then, by all means.. vulch away.

 
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: Saxman on September 21, 2008, 01:46:30 PM
We've made it a rule in my squadron that vulching in FSO is allowed, however we do not track these destroyed aircraft within our own internal scoring as aerial victories. Instead we consider them ground targets (VMF-251 tracks three targets on our scoreboard: Aerial victories, ground targets (vehicles) and objects (ack guns, buildings, etc)). If an enemy aircraft is sitting on the ground, or is in a state where, whether due to landing approach or takeoff roll is in the air but the pilot is unable to respond to an attack (this one's a judgment call by the command staff) it is considered a ground target instead.
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: Sled on September 21, 2008, 06:50:48 PM
Here is some things to consider when it comes to vulching in FSO.

AC that are on the ground re-arming, in most cases, do not have to sit there and be shot by incoming enemy. There is no reason that they can not tower out and get a successful landing long before an enemy AC has the chance to fire his (or her) guns.

Vulching as it occurs in the MA does not happen in FSO. In FSO you do not have a situation where enemy AC are circling a base shooting AC as they try to spawn and take off. The only vulching you are going to see in FSO is enemy AC that find AC on the ground refueling, or on final approach, and they shoot them on the ground. But then again those AC on the ground should have plenty of time to simply type .ef and go to the tower, giving the enemy nothing to shoot at.

In the case where that AC is still moving after touching down, and can not use the .ef command yet, said AC should be being covered by friendly AC still flying. And very rare should be the case when a pilot is trying to land with enemy AC flying close enough that they can get a shot on him before he can type .ef.


So, FSO is about scoring kills on the enemy. If that enemy is going to give you the opportunity to kill his AC on the ground, then take it. I would, and most pilots in WWII would as well.

:aok
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: ROC on September 21, 2008, 08:13:51 PM
Quote
I'm sure we'll all heard the same thing on 200 during the middle of the event last night.

It's best to contact the Host CM, if it's not specifically prohibited in the rules, then CAP should occur.  Yelling about it on 200 is MA type of distractions that FSO squads should be above by now.

CAP is essential, Planning and Communications are essential, Defending the returning fighters and bombers, also essential.  Vulching wasn't the problem, that they were allowed to get there in the first place was the problem.  Let's all try and remember what Doesn't work in the MAs and keep it out of events.
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: Odee on September 22, 2008, 12:58:51 AM
hmm is shooting aircraft on the hotpad considered vulching?
Yes it is frowned upon... get far more using bombs.  :lol

BTW - 49th is hoping to get their ride pic for at least 2 of the frames in this one.  Being stuck in Sukas the last scenario sucked, no matter how well we did, or did not do.
 :salute
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: AKKaz on September 23, 2008, 09:17:35 PM
Though vulching is "legal", I still would consider that shooting drones being left on the ground after rearm a little in bad taste.  It has been stated that after the lead plane leaves a certain distance that the drones disappear.  That is not always true, have been in a few FSO's where we rearmed for a second run in 25's and when we came back from the run, our drones were still sitting on the feild.

So what's the answer?  don't rearm when assigned buffs? leave cap over feild for rest of frame? count the kills or dont count the kills? you call it..... but in this particular case, there is nothing other than never rearming buffs that a person can do to avoid easy vulch kills on drones.  Sad part is, after you leave them on the ground you can hear the bullet near misses on your plane when the drones are being shot at.  And there's nothing you can do about it but look around to make sure the enemy is not on your actual 6
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: Sled on September 23, 2008, 09:32:15 PM
  It has been stated that after the lead plane leaves a certain distance that the drones disappear.  That is not always true, have been in a few FSO's where we rearmed for a second run in 25's and when we came back from the run, our drones were still sitting on the feild.


That is no longer the case, according to my test, I am still waiting for confirmation.

It was changed in the last patch.
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: Hamltnblue on September 23, 2008, 09:40:17 PM
Although it is legal I personally think that vulching is "gaming the game"  Unlike actual events in history, the fact of the matter is we know when planes are taking off and we know about when they'll be landing.  This wasn't usually known in WWII.  Re-directing resources to vulch rather than perform the original intended mission is just point grabbing in my view.  If the opportunity is by chance that's one thing but the fact is we Know when the mission starts, we Know when mission ends, waiting at the probably landing time is no different than someone running around with a .45 shooting planes on the deck, especially when the ACK is set at anything lower than normal strength.
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: ghostdancer on September 24, 2008, 08:57:18 AM
As a CM I don't have an issue with Vulching in several cases / situations (not all) .. especially when all fields are open to land and rearm. The enemy does not know what field you will rearm at. Over the years my squad usually takes a look at the map and reported actions and tries to find a base not on the front line or away from the combat zones. Landing at a front line base .. well yeah not a smart idea if you can avoid it. Also we almost always leaves a CAP in place over the field we are rearming at and rearm in shifts.

With these precautions it is usually not an issue.
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: Hamltnblue on September 24, 2008, 03:21:41 PM
True and I don't think that it has been happening much at all, except for  a couple of frames back in July.  When it does happen the return field is usually limited, such as carrier ops.  In those cases turning the Ack to normal strength would definitely help.
Title: Re: Vulching?
Post by: ghostdancer on September 24, 2008, 04:03:23 PM
Yep, that is a drawback of the game. We usually tone down the AA lethality quite a bit more if ships are involved. Because with the new fleets .. well they were proven to be massively deadly in Aleutians (lot more guns). Unfortunately land AA lethality and Ship AA lethality are both controlled by the same setting. So to give the guys attacking (making torp runs and attacks on ships) a chance of not dying from auto fire it basically defangs the land bases which had no increase in the amount of guns per base.

Resulting, in my opinion, that land bases AA is ineffective and does not discourage people from attacking rearming planes and such on a base.

This is only really an issue when both ships and land bases are targets. When just land bases the CMs can and do dial the lethality back up to make AA a credible threat and danger to pilots playing in it. When ships and land bases .. the ships AA are still a very credible threat but the land bases aren't.