Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: 1pLUs44 on September 21, 2008, 02:26:12 PM
-
Give the P-39Q an option for 4 .303s instead of 2 .50s, or make a whole new plane.
The P-39N is basically the P-39Q, just 4 .303s in the wings instead of 2 .50s.
P-39N skins shouldn't be on our little P-39D.
-
Why do you want the P-39N with lower armament? Aren't there other aircraft that we can add that won't just sit in the hanger?
-
P-39N skins shouldn't be on our little P-39D.
Nor would they be. They'd go to the P-39Q model.
-
Why do you want the P-39N with lower armament? Aren't there other aircraft that we can add that won't just sit in the hanger?
It would have almost the firepower as a 39Q with gondolas (and alot more ammo I suppose), but not the drag penalty.
Possibly be an intresting option, especially since it does not require much modeling work.
-
4000 rds of 30 cal weigh about 260 lbs.
600 rds of 50 cal weigh about 108 lbs.
That coupled with the fact you've only got 1 gun in each wing instead of 2, means you save a lot of weight on the P-39 by using the 2 wing guns (and you save even more weight by not taking any!).
Drag is not the only problem. Drag will affect your top level speed. The added weight will affect your stall, your turn performance, greatly reduce your climb rate, reduce your roll rate (the weight IS in the wings, after all). Internal vs. external is only part of the equation. Keep in mind, also, that the hitting power of 1x .50cal in this game is about equal to 3x .30cal rounds. It has greater range, impact, and is much more capable. 2x 50cals are worth 6x 30cals. You're gaining 50% increase in hitting power, and get better range/ballistics on top of that.
Overall the 50cal gunpods are way better than the 4x 30cals. Fly a P-40B. Now fire ONLY the 30cals. See how hard it is to kill. Then fire ONLY the 50cals. Kills come quite easily.
-
4000 rds of 30 cal weigh about 260 lbs.
600 rds of 50 cal weigh about 108 lbs.
Overall the 50cal gunpods are way better than the 4x 30cals. Fly a P-40B. Now fire ONLY the 30cals. See how hard it is to kill. Then fire ONLY the 50cals. Kills come quite easily.
Lets do the math here... 260/108 = 2.407...
Check the work...
2.407 x 108 = 259.596
Okay, now we go on...
600 * 2.407 = 1444.2
So, 1444.2 .50 cal rounds equals the weight of 4000 rounds of .30 cals... I think the .30 cals have the weight advantage...
Overall the 50cal gunpods are way better than the 4x 30cals. Fly a P-40B. Now fire ONLY the 30cals. See how hard it is to kill. Then fire ONLY the 50cals. Kills come quite easily.
Well, I perfer to call it aiming, cause see, .303's put in the right spot do some serious damage ;)
.50 cals, yes, they're easier to shoot and take parts off with, but don't say that just because of that, they're better.
"It's the pilot, not the plane"
-
Well, I may be wrong, but it looks like that the P39N would be pretty much like the 39D with the Qs WEP option.
If thats basically true, then the 39N would have a 100 lb weight advantage over the podded Q, about 8 mph speed advantage
and would carry more destructive potential (4000 x 0,3 lbs vs 600 x 1,17 lbs ).
The loss in firepower is not that dramatic. 4 x .50 spit out 56 lbs/s worth of orndnace 4 x .30 + 2 x .50 do 48 lbs/s.
The 15% loss in firepower (even less if we consider the 37 mm in the complete gun package as well)
would be well worth the gain in speed alone, at lease for me.
-
No the empty weights would be the same as with the Q. Yes, engine is the same. Given that the empty weight is the same and the nose guns are the same, the only major difference is the wing guns.
Trigger, your math is nonsense, because the 50cal gunpack only comes with 300 rounds per gun, 600 total. The 4x 30cal internal guns setup has 1000 rounds per gun, 4000 total.
That's where the weight difference comes into play.
The ammo alone for the 2 guns packages leaves the 4x 30cal package 152lbs heavier from just the bullets alone.
And as far as aiming goes: Assuming YOUR skill doesn't change, assuming you can fly the plane to get hits on target, any hits you land with 4x50cal are more powerful than those you land with 2x50cal and 4x30cal. That's just a fact of how AH is modeled. On top of that, the round are able to do catastrophic damage at MUCH longer ranges. 30cals become almost useless outside 200 yards, 50cals are good up to 400 or so. Assuming your rounds hit where you want, one guns package is clearly better than the other, weighs less, hits harder, hits further.
-
We need more planes then worrying about the ammo a plane could hold. If you want to 4 .303's fly the 39D.
-
4000 rds of 30 cal weigh about 260 lbs.
600 rds of 50 cal weigh about 108 lbs.
That coupled with the fact you've only got 1 gun in each wing instead of 2, means you save a lot of weight on the P-39 by using the 2 wing guns (and you save even more weight by not taking any!).
Drag is not the only problem. Drag will affect your top level speed. The added weight will affect your stall, your turn performance, greatly reduce your climb rate, reduce your roll rate (the weight IS in the wings, after all). Internal vs. external is only part of the equation. Keep in mind, also, that the hitting power of 1x .50cal in this game is about equal to 3x .30cal rounds. It has greater range, impact, and is much more capable. 2x 50cals are worth 6x 30cals. You're gaining 50% increase in hitting power, and get better range/ballistics on top of that.
Overall the 50cal gunpods are way better than the 4x 30cals. Fly a P-40B. Now fire ONLY the 30cals. See how hard it is to kill. Then fire ONLY the 50cals. Kills come quite easily.
MATH GEEK!!!!! AHHHH haha jk man :aok i'd like other planes b4 this (even though im in a squad that historically used the P39)
-
What about other P-39s? P-39K?
I'd like a gun option, or a new plane (which wouldn't be hard to add I think). I would hate to see Pokryshkin's infamous P-39N go on our little P-39D. You know what I mean? I want the option for mostly historical purposes. Plus, in my opinion, the 2 extra .50s are worse. Just because the drag they cause from being under the wing.
-
What about the other planes we need?
The fact is the P39 is not a major player in the Late War arena's. Why work on something that not many people will use?
-
Here is a WWII catridge/MG lesson:
The ".303" were the .30 caliber cartridge used by the British and Commonwealth forces. The only American unit that I know of that might have used the .303 British in their aircraft were the Flying Tigers in China. Otherwise, when the US used .30 caliber MGs' in their plane it was their own ".30 cal" (7.62mm), which was the "U.S. Springfield .30-06". The Japs used their 7.7mm, the Germans used the 7.92 (8mm Mauser), the Italians used the 6.5 Carcano, the Soviets the 7.62x54R, The French the 7.5mm. On and on...
as a firearms hobbyist and collector, I cringe when I see mis-use of terminology. The US P39 aircraft with the .30cal MG's fired the US .30 cal which was not the .303 British. ;) The Spitfires and Hurricanes had the .303 British. The P40B, P39x, etc, all have the US .30cal (.30-06).
With all that being said, when it comes to ballsitics and performance we're really splitting hairs, with the only one that really sticks out is the Italian 6.5 Carcano and that is because of its lack of performance in comparison to other cartridges. When speaking of .30 caliber MG's on an aircraft it is best just to say as such: "The .30cal MG's" then the entire realm is covered.
-
What about the other planes we need?
The fact is the P39 is not a major player in the Late War arena's. Why work on something that not many people will use?
Good scenarios and what not. Why is it so hard to add 4 .30s on our P-39Q. A small update HTC could do next update.
-
I'm not denying it would be an easy fix. Perhaps they don't want unhistorical 4x30cal options on soviet planes that didn't use them (i.e. using the P-39Q in events/scenarios)??
I'm not sure. I was commenting more on the REASONS for wanting a separate plane. They were inaccurate reasons (plane weight, power of the guns, etc).
-
Well yea, but in my opinion, they could just change the weight up on a P-39Q and rename it, or give us the option. From what I know.
Here is his P-39Q
(http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/pokri2.jpg)
And Here is his P-39N
(http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/IL2/images/skins/historical/2_small.JPG)
And IMO, the 4 .303s are more effective than 2 .50s. As the 30s send out more lead, there's a better chance of you finding your mark from what I've learned flying the P-39.
-
Better chance of hitting? Sure. 4000 rounds means more chance of hitting, yes.
Better chance of hurting? God, no. 2x 50cal are 50% more efective than 4x 30cal. That's how sad and weak the 30cals are. Can you get kills? Sure. In the same effort it took you'd have got 2x as many kills with the 50cal option.
That's not an opinion. It's a fact based on how the guns are modeled. You might have a preference for weaker armament, but doesn't make it a better option.
Also, there'd be no weight difference. The empty weight would be the same, and the 4x30cal gun option would weigh about 200lbs more than the more powerful 50cal option. US pilots actually welcomed the 50cal gunpods (even though Soviets removed the wing guns to save weight).
-
Opinions are opinions. With the P-39D, when I run out of 20mm (which is suprisingly fast) I can still get 4 or more kills from it. I dont like the drag of the gongolas on the P-39Q. I just find it easier to get kills with.
Tonight, I'll up a P-39Q, ditch my cannons, and see how well I do with only 4 .50s. See if it changes my opinion any more. I've done it before, but maybe a little bit of consistancy with it will help. :aok
-
Huh, the 4 .50s didn't seem to do nearly as good as the 4 .30s and 2 .50s. Kinda odd, it may be my gunnery, but the converg is set at the same for both of them. Not too sure.
-
bump.
-
No need to bump a 1-day-old thread, especially considering bumping is frowned upon in the BBS rules (see the sticky thread).
-
Im all for more P-39's... I was overjoyed when we got the Two we have now, another wouldnt be a bad idea... just look at all the Spits, 109's 190's and F4U varients we have.
-
Opinions are opinions. With the P-39D, when I run out of 20mm (which is suprisingly fast) I can still get 4 or more kills from it. I dont like the drag of the gongolas on the P-39Q. I just find it easier to get kills with.
It's not a matter of opinion. 2 .50 cals pack more of a punch than 4 .30 cals.