Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 1pLUs44 on September 25, 2008, 10:35:38 PM
-
How can you actually have fun flying a 190? I've taken a few up, to see what it was like, and the only one I even found sorta challanging was a 190A8, and that was because they could catch me, which just ment I had to chop throttle and roll.... Is this really what 190 pilots live for? I can see no fun in this, and the score part of it is a waste of time. If I wanted to go BnZ, I'd take up a 109K4 and do twice as well because I can turn too. :rolleyes:
190 pilots, please, enlighten me on the joys of the 190? I know there are plenty (actually, a LOT) of good 190 pilots, ones who can turn that thing to the deck and beat ya, but if you're an average 190 pilot, what gives you the kick, I honestly dont know. Only feeling you get is cowardice by running, breaking up fights and HO'ing.
Okay, vicadin wearing off now. go ahead. :)
-
Sing it with me 1plus44....
"Its all about the vertical"
"Roping" someone is the name of the game in 190's, that and the BnZ. 190's are somewhat hard to flat turn with, maybe except for the A-5 (which seems to flat turn better then all the others, its still not great though.)
I get pleasure out of fighting 190's because they are a challenging ride, and is really one of the few fighters in this game that was never designed to turn well.
Besides it just looks sexy :)
-
Sounds like someone got killed in a 190 1 too many times.
-
The airplane in which you have the highest number of kills this tour is in fact the P-51D. The P-51s are the SECOND worst turning airplane series after the 190s.
Thus it follows logically that one of the two following possibilities is true. One is that you have learned the techniques to overcome better-turning planes, which is braggable. But, if this is so, then you already know the techniques by which 190 pilots can overcome XYZ better-turning fighter given correct piloting, so why ask? In that case your question is rhetorical pot-stirring, which we don't need.
The other possibility is that you mostly OPHA in the P-51, in which case your post is hypocritical, as well as deliberately provocative.
If I wanted to go BnZ, I'd take up a 109K4 and do twice as well because I can turn too. :rolleyes:
Apparently this is false, because this tour your K/D in a 109-K4 is 4/6, while your K/D in a 190D9 is 10/5. Visibility, an easy to use gun package, and general nice handling as a gun platform can be more important than "on paper" performance advantages, don't ya find? :devil
-
Flying a 190 aggressively against opponents that know you're there and don't have their hands full with other cons is a lot of fun no matter how you choose to do it... BnZ, TnB, a little mixture... Whatever. Under such circumstances, the margin for error is small, and when you can pull it off (or even almost pull it off), you're going to get a huge kick out of it.
-
The P-51s are the SECOND worst turning airplane series after the 190s.
They turn well enough if you keep it at high speed, in fact, at high speed they can out turn a heck of a lot of stuff within AH.
-
Sing it with me 1plus44....
"Its all about the vertical"
"Roping" someone is the name of the game in 190's, that and the BnZ. 190's are somewhat hard to flat turn with, maybe except for the A-5 (which seems to flat turn better then all the others, its still not great though.)
I get pleasure out of fighting 190's because they are a challenging ride, and is really one of the few fighters in this game that was never designed to turn well.
Besides it just looks sexy :)
Yep, 190 A5 is a good flat turn fighter. I personally like the D8.
190 are tough birds to fly. Compared to spit, nik, la, yak, If you fly them all the time and think they are hard to fly, you haven't been in a 190.
-
I understand you get to wear leather briefs when flying the uber german iron. I suppose this, by itself, attracts some.
-
And how you can get joy out of flying spixteens, lala's and nikis is beyond me really.
-
As a turn fighter, the 190 is a huge challenge and learning how to get any success with it takes time. If you're ham-fisted pilot, forget it, any 190 will b¡tch slap you into a snap stall and spoil your position. The best tip I can give you with any 190 is to be SMOOTH. They aren't like 109s, you need to grab the 109 by the hair and slap it around a bit to get the best out of it. You have to buy the 190 dinner first. Try the A5, it is easily the best as a turn fighter. I take the 4 x 20mm package too and I still find that it fights well. If you're used to the 109 there are 2 things you must remember... The 190 is a good climber but it is nothing like the 109. It won't do the same straight up, rocket climb that 109 will... and the 190, in my experience, won't slow down anything like the 109 will. Forcing an overshoot is not as easy in the 190 as you have to rely on your roll rate and ability to change direction quickly rather than dumping flaps and rudder. Don't be affraid to use the flaps in the 190 but they are best at the top of a climb rather than in a turn.
-
I like to take the 190-A5 up ocassionally as I like the all White skin, looks damn sweet and I'm sure people just think that you're a could or seagul :aok
-
Sounds like someone got killed in a 190 1 too many times.
no, not really, I usually get killed by Spit 16s. :)
Just asking what's the joy in breaking up someones good TnB fight? Whats the point of suprising someone? What, a good score?
-
Just asking what's the joy in breaking up someones good TnB fight? Whats the point of suprising someone? What, a good score?
The suprise is never the attackers fault... the victim just had bad SA or has fallen asleep. Oh, and who said the TnB fight was a good one anyway?
-
They turn well enough if you keep it at high speed, in fact, at high speed they can out turn a heck of a lot of stuff within AH.
Everything can turn at a high enough speed, unless it runs into issues with control effectiveness. If both planes are going fast, you are both limited by G-tolerance. But everyone in AH is up against the same blackout, so really its neutral, except for one possible advantage. That is, with its flaps and high wing-loading, the P-51 can decelerate from say 350 mph IAS to 270 mph IAS quicker than, for example, a Spitfire.
-
I can't believe you all responded directly to this troll. :P
-
no, not really, I usually get killed by Spit 16s. :)
Just asking what's the joy in breaking up someones good TnB fight? Whats the point of suprising someone? What, a good score?
I experience "picks" from every sort of aircraft. I'd say 190s more rarely than the other types, simply because they are easier to dodge.
I also rarely experience the tnb fights you experience. Most of the time when when I'm in a tnb plane doing the furball thing I see guys (in Spit and N1Ks usually, no less) HOin' and goin', or just blowing past the merge and trying to set up drags for other planes, etc, in general never attacking anything that doesn't already have its six exposed to them. The low and slow furball is the biggest pick/gang-tard fest there is. I find a good way to get a 1v1 is to fly something relatively fast a little higher either drag away or chase down single bandits trying to do the bnz thing themselves.
Dweebish behavior is not related to any one plane my friend.
-
I find the 190 a very great plane to take if I want to have some fun. They're right on the line of being a great dogfighter, but needing a alot of skill to do it! Just yesterday I took a 190A5 up for a little fun. I didn't get any kills, but I did get 2 excellent 1v1 fights in a row in 1 sortie!!
-
You rip Fw190's for the way they are flown ...yet you fail to mention the way p51's are flown? ....your comments could apply to both types
first off fw190's were never designed to fly super slow in tight circles World War I style ....by the time the Fw190 came out things had changed ....speed and hitting power were more important then going in tight circles .....so the pilots in AH are being smart and flying to the planes strengths ...you can be very aggressive in fw190's and I fight like mad in them ....
Helm ...out
-
I get pleasure out of fighting 190's because they are a challenging ride, and is really one of the few fighters in this game that was never designed to turn well.
Actually many fighters were designed in WWII with turn radius apparently very low on the priority list.
Remember, ever since the end of WWI, the theorizing before each and every conflict has been "dogfights are now obsolete, planes are too fast and technology is too advanced". So before the war most planes were being to designed to try and stop the bomber, the design qualification was to climb relatively quickly with good armament and go fast. After the war began, ever-increasing speed, armament, altitude performance and range seem to have been the main concerns, with the latter often being dominant.
Wasn't he first American airplane specifically designed to be maneuverable vs. its expected opposition in fact the F-15?
-
Just asking what's the joy in breaking up someones good TnB fight? Whats the point of suprising someone? What, a good score?
Why would you want to resort to using HO's? Answer that question and all the other answers will be revealed.
ack-ack
-
The D9 just happens to be one of the sexiest planes IMHO.
-
I'll fly a 190a5 with you. Lot's of rolling around is fun. None of that sissy extend 2 sectors stuff.
-
How can you actually have fun flying a 190?
Good question. Maybe guys are making believe that they are German pilots during WW2 and they are assigned to fly 190s and they are trying to go out and fight and make it back alive and stuff like that........ :)
-
How can you actually have fun flying a 190? I've taken a few up, to see what it was like, and the only one I even found sorta challanging was a 190A8, and that was because they could catch me, which just ment I had to chop throttle and roll.... Is this really what 190 pilots live for? I can see no fun in this, and the score part of it is a waste of time. If I wanted to go BnZ, I'd take up a 109K4 and do twice as well because I can turn too. :rolleyes:
190 pilots, please, enlighten me on the joys of the 190? I know there are plenty (actually, a LOT) of good 190 pilots, ones who can turn that thing to the deck and beat ya, but if you're an average 190 pilot, what gives you the kick, I honestly dont know. Only feeling you get is cowardice by running, breaking up fights and HO'ing.
Okay, vicadin wearing off now. go ahead. :)
:rofl :rofl Stick to your spit16 1+, you will never understand if you havent already.
-
Good question. Maybe guys are making believe that they are German pilots during WW2 and they are assigned to fly 190s and they are trying to go out and fight and make it back alive and stuff like that........ :)
:confused: :huh
What's fun about the Fw190 is the same as any other plane. Some folks like a challenge, some folks like the looks, some folks like the guns, or the range (compared to a 109 for example, or a spit16).
Why do folks like the P-47D? It's no speed demon, won't outrun much, it can't turn worth a crap most of the time, its only traits are good dive, good roll, and heavy guns. Yet it, along with the Fw190, shares a following that enjoys flying it.
Stupid question to begin with. Might as well ask folks why they like eggs, or hiking boots, or something else just as random.
-
nevermind
-
I like the way the FW190 makes heavy bomber pilots poop their pants.
-
I experience "picks" from every sort of aircraft. I'd say 190s more rarely than the other types, simply because they are easier to dodge.
I also rarely experience the tnb fights you experience. Most of the time when when I'm in a tnb plane doing the furball thing I see guys (in Spit and N1Ks usually, no less) HOin' and goin', or just blowing past the merge and trying to set up drags for other planes, etc, in general never attacking anything that doesn't already have its six exposed to them. The low and slow furball is the biggest pick/gang-tard fest there is. I find a good way to get a 1v1 is to fly something relatively fast a little higher either drag away or chase down single bandits trying to do the bnz thing themselves.
Dweebish behavior is not related to any one plane my friend.
Even when I take up a 51, I'll do flaps turning with anything except a zeke or a hurri. Just still have found no out right reason why a plane that can dive, run, and HO well can be fun. :(
I like the way the FW190 makes heavy bomber pilots poop their pants.
But this one does make me smile :) If it's like 5am and some idiot is trying to rack up score, I like to take up a 190A8 and get some points myself. :)
-
Even when I take up a 51, I'll do flaps turning with anything except a zeke or a hurri. Just still have found no out right reason why a plane that can dive, run, and HO well can be fun. :(
If you are an effective P-51 pilot at all, you have made a study of how to use energy and angles to overcome a large turn rate disadvantage. What, that knowledge magically disappears when you try a 190? I gotta call bull on that one.
Take the Mustang, take away its maneuvering flaps, make it turn marginally less well. But make it climb, accelerate, and roll decidedly better. Give it two 20mms mounted near center-line. Voila, you got a D9. If you can figure out how to fly a P-51 but can't figure a Dora, you aren't thinking hard enough.
BTW, a 40/8 k/d in the Pony indicates a few possibilities. You either DO realize how to get the most out of a brick and are just posting this to agitate, or you mostly pick in the Pony, in which cases criticizing 190s is abit assinine. A k/d of 5 in the Pony also pretty much proves that knife-fighting Spits below 220 mph ain't ALL you do with it. :D
-
If you are an effective P-51 pilot at all, you have made a study of how to use energy and angles to overcome a large turn rate disadvantage. What, that knowledge magically disappears when you try a 190? I gotta call bull on that one.
It's a result of someone that knows the 'gimmicks' of the trade but not the actual knowledge.
When I first started out playing online flight sims the first plane I flew was the FW190-A8. One learns pretty quickly that you can't out turn most planes you encounter in a normal turn fight but you can use one of its main strengths (roll rate) to over come that weakness. That's how I learned to use angles to cut inside of a better maneuvering plane's turn. That knowledge has carried over to every plane I've flown. It's not plane specific.
So I have to agree with you, I call bull on that one too.
ack-ack
-
Ok I heard enough crap about the 190 - first thing first - take up a 190a5 and fly it - there is a reason why the spitfire could not match it when it first came out, you got to understand the 2 best fighters of ww2 were the P47 jug and the Fw190 - reason being is because both were adapted to serve a role which most fighters could not take. For example - A P-51 mustang was NOT designed for ground attack, any historians know single bullet in coolant and its engine froze up. Fw-190 was designed first as an air superiority fighter, later it was adapted for ground attack (F-8 model, and G models) - then later the Fw-190a8 model - which became a buff destroyer, and finally the FW-190d9 an interceptor - designed to intercept bombers and fighters, however ended up to protect me-262's taking off and landing a role not quite suitable never the less did its job very well. Finally the Ta-152 a very high alt interceptor to engage p-51's and Spit 14's over Germany and fight on equal grounds.
Basically here's the deal - The 190 is not an easy plane to learn, it has mega draw backs such as *it cant turn with spitfires* however it does have a good top speed, awesome firepower and has a seriously wicked roll rate. Now to have fun in a 190? its simple - Learn the attributes a 190 has (good climb rate, amazing roll rate, good top speed) and use it against your opponent. Any really decent Fw190a5 pilot can tell you - the plane is worth its eny value. The Fw190a5 can actually turn quite good, pack a great punch for being a 1942/43 fighter - and turn with MOST (not all planes in the game, including the ZERO) however it will hold its own in an energy fight. Fw 190 is perhaps an over-easy model to the P-51 and served same easy-mode lesson: If you get in trouble you can get out easy based on its speed alone, someone like me who flies an early model me109 has no chance to catch either plane unless they turn fight me, makes some "newbies" enjoy the one attribute they can rely on daily to get them home to land their 2 kills and 0.45 perks they earned picking from 19,500 feet.
-
The A8 is and always has been my highest K/D rate fighter. If (... I mean when) you do get on someone's six there's virtually no escape. I love to watch them squirm before the 30's hit.
-
BnZ is right about the Dora being similar to the Pony. A couple of my squadies love Ponies but I'm absolutely rubbish in them, so when we do a fighter sweep I take the 190 D and roll with their Ponies. Each aircraft's attributes compliment eachother's well in the situation. I feel like it needs to be said that the 190 D is an aircraft all of it's own, the differences between the Dora and A series is huge. A completely different style of engine and different fuselage lenghts give them a very different set of attributes.
-
BnZ is right about the Dora being similar to the Pony. A couple of my squadies love Ponies but I'm absolutely rubbish in them, so when we do a fighter sweep I take the 190 D and roll with their Ponies. Each aircraft's attributes compliment eachother's well in the situation. I feel like it needs to be said that the 190 D is an aircraft all of it's own, the differences between the Dora and A series is huge. A completely different style of engine and different fuselage lenghts give them a very different set of attributes.
I imagine they did in R/L, in AH all 190s feel very similar to me except for performance and weight.
And yeah, the 190As are a bit obsolete in L/W. Too much stuff is faster, turns much better, AND has a better thrust/weight ratio. The A4/A5 was dynamite when the hottest Allied fighter was the SpitV. We've got no 190A version that represents a real performance advantage over our early version (The A8 is a little faster on the deck, otherwise its a buff-hunting pig), and I think that is kind of a shame.