Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Anaxogoras on September 30, 2008, 01:26:20 AM
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I'll sacrifice myself to the mob of judgment and throw this one out there: perk the 37mm cannons on the Il-2. I don't know how much they should cost, but any idiot can kill tanks now simply by pointing and shooting. There's no skill to it at all.
I know we don't have a way to perk ordinance yet, but in the meantime it would be easy to split the Il-2 into two aircraft, delete the 37mm cannon option from one and perk the other. Done.
Please don't flame me too much. :D
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Mmmmmm No.
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I'll sacrifice myself to the mob of judgment and throw this one out there: perk the 37mm cannons on the Il-2. I don't know how much they should cost, but any idiot can kill tanks now simply by pointing and shooting. There's no skill to it at all.
I know we don't have a way to perk ordinance yet, but in the meantime it would be easy to split the Il-2 into two aircraft, delete the 37mm cannon option from one and perk the other. Done.
Please don't flame me too much. :D
Soon as they perk the K-4... OK?
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but any idiot can kill tanks now simply by pointing and shooting. There's no skill to it at all.
I felt like that yesterday when I took it up for a couple of runs. Not the me being an idiot part but the fact that you just can't miss a GV. The rate of fire combined with the very stable, recoiless guns. I just flew right up to a panzer no regard to line up or position (hurri2d style) held the trigger down 10 rounds fired and he was blown into oblivion.
I went top down on a Wirbel that wasnt paying attention 6 rounds BOOM! he dead.
4 Gv's killed in a matter of 2 minutes. Why bother with upping bombs and getting Alt to dive bomb? They would have spent 5 minutes each driving to town so whats taken 20 minutes of enemy effort I undid in 2 minutes.
Now I dont care much for the GV game and if it's designed to defeat a bunch of landgrabbers from destroying towns and milking bases then I love the new IL2. If that promotes more Air Combat in this here Flight Combat game to keep a cap over enemy fields to kill IL2's then great.
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+1. Needs to be perked.
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Yep, perk it - no comparison to K4... K4 drops like a rock past 150-200 yards
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As the wirlie was a god send to the Gv'er so is the IL-2 to the flyer :D
I would concure with Bruvs sentiments in promoting air combat. We didn't search "Aces Low" when we went alookin for a shoot um up did we.
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/IL2.jpg)
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This goes back to my old request I posted 10 times in the wishlist. Take the F4u-1d and the F4u-1c for example - same aircraft, different guns.
Have the same plane, with perk weapons. I think it would probably not work since it would have to re-do the game, but just copy the il-2 over and give it a perk option for 37mm's maybe 6 perks for it. I mean seriously all one has to do is spray and you win.
or add the Ju-87G with 37mm guns that are not perked, but I believe it had 6 rounds per gun (not sure on this believe its correct)
Il-2 perked for the cannon load and a flying tank, Ju-87 thats slow, heavy armed, but not armored.
/Makes sense to me I think? lol
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or add the Ju-87G with 37mm guns that are not perked, but I believe it had 6 rounds per gun (not sure on this believe its correct)
Il-2 perked for the cannon load and a flying tank, Ju-87 thats slow, heavy armed, but not armored.
The Ju87G was armored.
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I would argue that it was not in the same league as the flying bathtub, though, aye Anax?
Luftwaffe pilots give stories of the Il2 being unstoppable unless hit in certain parts of the engine.
Hartmann, for example, said something of this nature.
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As much as I hate to face these things when I am in a gv, I would have to say no unless they decide to perk the wirblewind.
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As much as I hate to face these things when I am in a gv, I would have to say no unless they decide to perk the wirblewind.
You have a point yeah, for GV's to be successful will require air support, as GV's were not unstopable without it. I mean even a stuka was
invisible with good air support, so i sort of agree with ya on the subject.
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I mean even a stuka was
invisible with good air support, so i sort of agree with ya on the subject.
So the Romulans gave the Nazis their cloaking technology? :noid I believe it..
Seriously though, perk the thing lightly, give the GV guys a chance. It is little unbalancing as it stands, there is no tank except possibly the tiger that it is not easy to turret/outright destroy with the 37mms.
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I would argue that it was not in the same league as the flying bathtub, though, aye Anax?
Luftwaffe pilots give stories of the Il2 being unstoppable unless hit in certain parts of the engine.
Hartmann, for example, said something of this nature.
The rear guns were pretty vulnerable. Getting assigned a rear gunner position on an IL-II was, more or less, a punishment assignment.
Give us the Stuka G :rock
Perk the Whirble, even with perk, it would give a fighting chance to someone with good aim against joe-chit the ragman in an IL-II who doesn't need much skill to wipe out damn near anything on the ground.
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Anything that prevents a solo GV from going and porking an airfield all one his lonesome is a good thing in my book. You want protection from the IL-2, bring a WW, or some fighter cover.
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Anything that prevents a solo GV from going and porking an airfield all one his lonesome is a good thing in my book. You want protection from the IL-2, bring a WW, or some fighter cover.
I'm with this
a few cannon birds in the air and the IL2 has no chance plus the wirbles on the ground will complete the package.
I really don't like to take part in the base capture game and it gets on my nerves when looking for a good gv battle to have to face these IL's when in gv's. The up side though is when there is someone trying to pork base single-handedly they are a great and fair tool to use.
I say WTG HT for putting this in game definitely evens out the air vs gv game when wirbles are factored in. :aok
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Anything that prevents a solo GV from going and porking an airfield all one his lonesome is a good thing in my book. You want protection from the IL-2, bring a WW, or some fighter cover.
Another GV would work fairly well in that respect. Coupled with diligent observation of the map, it's not too difficult to thwart the lone, porking GV'er. It's only after he/she has dropped a VH an/or manned guns that it becomes harder to stop.
Just get to defense quicker.
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Well...at least weve gotten a break from the "perk the wirbel" threads.
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Anything that prevents a solo GV from going and porking an airfield all one his lonesome is a good thing in my book. You want protection from the IL-2, bring a WW, or some fighter cover.
Well said.
If the 37s had a "small" perk on em, they would still be upped just as much as they are now.
But would guys feel better knowing they died to a perked plane or unperked plane?
They would still be dead.
How would perking it help?
I don't see a problem here.
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As if it's not easy enough to kill tanks by dropping a bomb on them... :rolleyes:
Perking would help because you wouldn't see an endless wave of suicidal Il-2s griefing gv fights. Right now, they don't care if they die turreting one tank/wirbel. They just up again and again to grief gv fights, die, rinse and repeat.
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As if it's not easy enough to kill tanks by dropping a bomb on them... :rolleyes:
Perking would help because you wouldn't see an endless wave of suicidal Il-2s griefing gv fights. Right now, they don't care if they die turreting one tank/wirbel. They just up again and again to grief gv fights, die, rinse and repeat.
Kinda like all the nitwits upping Lancs and doing the stuka thing right? At least the IL2 was designed as a ground attack aircraft.
And if I remember right tactical air power gave a lot of grief to GVs during the war itself so why would such grief surprise in what is a flight combat sim anyways? I got tracked in a T34/85 last night by a Niki who expended all his HOing 20 mm ammo on me. Hows that for realism?
Leave the IL2 alone. Its meant to hunt tanks and can be defended easily enough against if you bring a few wirbels/Osties.
Want to fix something that needs fixing? Then prevent heavie bombers from being Jabos, or, just get rid of CVs altogether.
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Or give us the Stuka G............
It worked for Rudel.
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As if it's not easy enough to kill tanks by dropping a bomb on them... :rolleyes:
Perking would help because you wouldn't see an endless wave of suicidal Il-2s griefing gv fights. Right now, they don't care if they die turreting one tank/wirbel. They just up again and again to grief gv fights, die, rinse and repeat.
Eh.. as it stands, a couple ponies do a pre-strike and take down ord.. then the GVs roll in.
At least now, more ponies would be necessary to take down the BH in addition to ord to be able to safely get the GVs in.
Sounds like the 37s are a good equalizer.
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Eh.. as it stands, a couple ponies do a pre-strike and take down ord.. then the GVs roll in.
At least now, more ponies would be necessary to take down the BH in addition to ord to be able to safely get the GVs in.
Sounds like the 37s are a good equalizer.
This isn't about rolling bases.
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As if it's not easy enough to kill tanks by dropping a bomb on them... :rolleyes:
Perking would help because you wouldn't see an endless wave of suicidal Il-2s griefing gv fights. Right now, they don't care if they die turreting one tank/wirbel. They just up again and again to grief gv fights, die, rinse and repeat.
That's a completely different issue. If you want to discuss existing game mechanics that players can take advantage of to grief, you'd have a 12-page thread.
If we stick to the "perk the IL-2 because the 37mm guns are too effective...", it really boils down to the fact that GV's are now extremely vulnerable to an aircraft merely because of its guns. And again, I'll state that the best remedy to an IL-2 is a WW. Unfortunately, those players that have the desire can't shell the base from 3-4,000 meters and have the ability to shoot down planes, all wrapped into one single "Solopwnmobile".
Conversely, the IL-2 is not a "Solopwnmobile" either, as its extremely vulnerable to enemy fighters. This is exactly the same type of thread that we had just after the B-25H was delivered, and everyone was complaining about the effectiveness of the 75mm gun.
And, just like those sentiments of frustration, this too shall pass...
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This isn't about rolling bases.
And you'd distinguish between the applications how?
Perk one but not the other?
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I think that when you get shot down and bail there should be a perk option for the pilot to have satchel charges and other such explosives to wreak havoc with. Otherwise what's the real point of being able to bail, to hold off the first few Goon Troopers in a map room(Yawn).
Also, we should have some Artillery pieces. It would be a team effort though. Have one guy at the Howitzer and the other one scout ahead in a jeep and call the adjustments back to his buddy.
Let's go crazy people...we can even perk certain skins. That way you can identify each other by skill levels from opposing countries.
It really boggles the mind how far we could go with this.
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I LOVE THE NEW IL2! OMG! I can kill GVs w/ a plane now !
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Anything that prevents a solo GV from going and porking an airfield all one his lonesome is a good thing in my book. You want protection from the IL-2, bring a WW, or some fighter cover.
Exactly! :aok
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Just like when the Wirbel was introduced, there were calls for perking it and so it goes with the new IL gun package. I do not feel that the IL-2 needs to be perked(nor the Wirbel). The addition of the Wirbel and now the updated IL-2 have changed the face of gameplay for the better. You have to attack and defend now with the complete package so to speak. The IL-2 forces GV's/Aircraft to work in composite groups (aircraft, tanks, flaks, and supply/troop runners working in concert) in order to accomplish a successful attack or defense of an base.
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The Ju87G was armored.
No more armored than the D-3 or D-5 was.
ack-ack
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The 37mm cannons don't need to be perked, this is just a case of some GVer that got wasted by an IL2 and is looking for a way to stop it from happening again. No more different from the tools that whine about perking the LA-7 or Spitfire Mk XVI.
ack-ack
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No more armored than the D-3 or D-5 was.
ack-ack
And? :huh The person I responded to said the Ju87 was "unarmored."
The 37mm cannons don't need to be perked, this is just a case of some GVer that got wasted by an IL2 and is looking for a way to stop it from happening again.
Nice straw-man. How would perking the 37mm cannons prevent Il-2s from busting gv's in the future?
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I think it was meant if Ju87G had any additional armour (GtoA) against ground fire. AFAIK it didn't, just the normal rear armour (AtoA) that the earlier models had.
Concerning fighter escorts the G:s many times had no fighter cover other than D-5s that could provide them cover after they had dropped their bombs on flaks making it more secure for G:s to operate at low level.
-C+
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I'll sacrifice myself to the mob of judgment and throw this one out there: perk the 37mm cannons on the Il-2. I don't know how much they should cost, but any idiot can kill tanks now simply by pointing and shooting. There's no skill to it at all.
True!!!! Nothing compares to the skill of pointing your cannon and clicking while you are spawn camping :rofl
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True!!!! Nothing compares to the skill of pointing your cannon and clicking while you are spawn camping :rofl
STRAW MAN! LOL!
ack-ack
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STRAW MAN! LOL!
ack-ack
That's his canned catchall response. :aok
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Nah, it just catches a lot because there's so many here! :D In fact, you could say that half of the arguments at this bbs are straw-men. It's a rare thing when you meet someone who doesn't always assume the person he disagrees with is an idiot.
True!!!! Nothing compares to the skill of pointing your cannon and clicking while you are spawn camping :rofl
I agree. Spawn camping, vulching, and shooting down Ju-88s should all be perked. :aok
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STRAW MAN! LOL!
ack-ack
Horse-laugh. :devil
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The 37mm cannons don't need to be perked, this is just a case of some GVer that got wasted by an IL2 and is looking for a way to stop it from happening again. No more different from the tools that whine about perking the LA-7 or Spitfire Mk XVI.
ack-ack
Actually, I've been busting more tanks with ridiculous ease using the thing than the other way around. But I'll be honest enough to admit its fun because tanks ARE sitting ducks for the new 37mms unless they bring a flotilla of WWs.
Everything perked IS perked because it is assumed to be so effective that it would alter the game in an undesirable way. The fact that the Il2 guns make dive-bombing GVs almost superfluous and tanks dead ducks without WW escort might be one argument to perk the things.
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I have had better success with the Ostwind than the Wirbel against IL-2's. The IL-2 can definitely soak up more hits from a Wirbel. I have shot down many IL-2's with an Ostwind than a Wirb at a ratio of 5-1. Granted, the IL-2 has taken me out numerous times with just their cannon, but then again so have many other fighter types. On the flipside I also fly the IL-2 against GV's and rarely use bombs or rockets. The 37mm does a fair job of equalizing the situation as does the Ostwind and Wirbel. Therefore, I do not think perking the IL-2 37mm cannon option will really make any difference...not when other non-perked planes can get the same result. Just my 2 cents.
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No one mentioned that the 250 kilo bomb option was removed from the IL-2... This was its best air to ground weapon. So, be happy there was some concession.
Whining about the IL-2 is silly, because I'll kill 'em just as easy with an A-20.
Now, I can understand being miffed about IL-2s swarming tank towns on some maps. However, if a horde of ground vehicles rolls on an airfield, I'm going to kill every one I can.
Most of the time I'll stick with the 23mm cannons for the IL-2 as these are far more effective for air to air. More often than not, after crushing a GV horde, several of them will jump in fighters to go pork the ordnance; admitting that they failed.
My regards,
Widewing
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Everything perked IS perked because it is assumed to be so effective that it would alter the game in an undesirable way. The fact that the Il2 guns make dive-bombing GVs almost superfluous and tanks dead ducks without WW escort might be one argument to perk the things.
Or, it could be an incentive to encourage better team play. Just because the IL-2 serves as a catalyst for folks to start thinking about air defense capability doesn't mean it deserves to be perked. Just because it forces you to need a "wingman" on the ground doesn't mean it deserves to be perked.
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Actually, I've been busting more tanks with ridiculous ease using the thing than the other way around. But I'll be honest enough to admit its fun because tanks ARE sitting ducks for the new 37mms unless they bring a flotilla of WWs.
Doesn't mean though it needs to be perked like the OP has suggested. I can easily kill GVs with a B-25H's 75mm howitzer from beyond d1.5, doesn't mean that gun package needs to be perked.
As many have pointed out, historically, ground vehicles without effective 1) air cover and/or 2) AA defenses has been fodder for airplanes. No reason why it shouldn't be the same in here. The cries of the IL2 is now some how unbalancing because of its 37mm gun package is just that, cries from the dead. Don't want your GV strafed by an IL2, have some squaddies fly top cover and/or have some up AA GVs to provide cover.
(Not referring to you in the above paragraph BnZ, just some tips for those that are crying about the IL2)
ack-ack
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I don't know how to check this but I think I got an Il2 with my Panzer pintle last night. Lucky I guess. Just started seeing lots of hits while leading him and kept on it. No need for perks just bring support.
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In the real WW2 not our game here, what happened when the 37mm Il2 was introduced? How did the germans respond to it? Did it's tank kill ratio improve over the 23mm?
Who ever mentioned the ostie as a solution to the Il2's armor thank you. Last night after I figured out how to zig zag my whirble from the spawn campers, the same Il2 kept killing me while I bounced 20mm off his front.
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any idiot can kill tanks now simply by pointing and shooting. There's no skill to it at all.
You just described GVing. :rofl
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Perk it? :confused:
It uses bomber perks -- so who would notice?
. . . although I do agree that the apparent lack of recoil vs. the Hurri IID should be looked at.
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Ooohhh, I like it. Make it use bomber perks. Then there will finally be a use for them.
Why is the What it was like in WW2 argument derided and mocked in some cases and then championed in others? :confused: Where is the chorus of smart alecks who always say if you like realism, log off and never play again the next time you die. :P
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Ooohhh, I like it. Make it use bomber perks. Then there will finally be a use for them.
It gains you bomber perks, so that is logically the pool it would pull from.
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I thought you could score an Il-2 sortie as "attack," and attack sorties give fighter perks.
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I thought you could score an Il-2 sortie as "attack," and attack sorties give fighter perks.
Nope. Mode is irrelevant to the type of perks you get. A JU-88 can be scored as attack, too, but I will give you one guess as to the type of perks you get. :D
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Why is the What it was like in WW2 argument derided and mocked in some cases and then championed in others? :confused: Where is the chorus of smart alecks who always say if you like realism, log off and never play again the next time you die. :P
Depends on the comparison, the example I used is very appropriate. Can you name one time an attacking armored force was successful without any air cover or AA cover defeated an opponent that did have air cover and support?
ack-ack
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As it stands, I'm totally against perking any ground-attack aircraft, unless the Wirbelwind receives a heavy perk to compensate. A well-gunned Wirby will still slaughter an IL-2 9 out of 10 times unless the WW is distracted by a team effort.
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Used to, to bust a GV attack, you upped an A-20 with eggs or a fighter bomber and got a little alt. Or, if you were very good, you used a HurriIID or an Il2 with the 23MMs to bust tanks. Now all of that is superflous.
So, not only do I think the new Il2 gun package swings the pendulum a little out of balanced in the MA as far as airplane vs. GV goes, it also renders the art of killing GVs by divebombing nearly obsolete. Is this effect desirable?
Depends on the comparison, the example I used is very appropriate. Can you name one time an attacking armored force was successful without any air cover or AA cover defeated an opponent that did have air cover and support?
ack-ack
In WWII the tanks quite possibly didn't have to worry about jabos because the enemy's ability to field combat aircraft had been nearly destroyed by bombing from 30,000 feet, and the guys driving Shermans and T-34s didn't have to worry about Il2s, and you probably couldn't up your Il2 and be strafing tanks in 10 seconds, and P-38s didn't cross swords with Spitfires...need I go on?
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As it stands, I'm totally against perking any ground-attack aircraft, unless the Wirbelwind receives a heavy perk to compensate. A well-gunned Wirby will still slaughter an IL-2 9 out of 10 times unless the WW is distracted by a team effort.
Having been on both sides of the equation, I find they neutralize each other. New Il2 will tend to destroy/turret the WW in exchange for being destroyed/severely damaged.
But a WW doesn't move at 200mph.
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Used to, to bust a GV attack, you upped an A-20 with eggs or a fighter bomber and got a little alt. Or, if you were very good, you used a HurriIID or an Il2 with the 23MMs to bust tanks. Now all of that is superflous.
So, not only do I think the new Il2 gun package swings the pendulum a little out of balanced in the MA as far as airplane vs. GV goes, it also renders the art of killing GVs by divebombing nearly obsolete. Is this effect desirable?
In WWII the tanks quite possibly didn't have to worry about jabos because the enemy's ability to field combat aircraft had been nearly destroyed by bombing from 30,000 feet, and the guys driving Shermans and T-34s didn't have to worry about Il2s, and you probably couldn't up your Il2 and be strafing tanks in 10 seconds, and P-38s didn't cross swords with Spitfires...need I go on?
It still doesn't change the fact that any armor attack without any air cover or AA protection against a force that had air cover and AA protection failed. Why should it be any different in here?
And the IL2 does not make dive bombing GVs obsolete nor does it unbalance the arena. No one has yet provided any evidence on how it causes any sort of unbalance. However, there have been many tips given on how to protect yourself if you're a GV against the IL2. If you're in a Tiger and you're attacking a base without any air/AA protection and you see an enemy IL2 or any other attack plane heading towards you, you really can't whine when you get killed.
The perk the "37mm cannon" whine is just like the whines about perking the LA 7, Spitfire Mk XVI, etc. It's just players trying to limit things because they don't have the necessary skill set to counter the threat.
ack-ack
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No one mentioned that the 250 kilo bomb option was removed from the IL-2... This was its best air to ground weapon. So, be happy there was some concession.
Whining about the IL-2 is silly, because I'll kill 'em just as easy with an A-20.
Now, I can understand being miffed about IL-2s swarming tank towns on some maps. However, if a horde of ground vehicles rolls on an airfield, I'm going to kill every one I can.
Most of the time I'll stick with the 23mm cannons for the IL-2 as these are far more effective for air to air. More often than not, after crushing a GV horde, several of them will jump in fighters to go pork the ordnance; admitting that they failed.
My regards,
Widewing
The failure was not porking the ORDS in the first place...
Falcon23 :salute
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It still doesn't change the fact that any armor attack without any air cover or AA protection against a force that had air cover and AA protection failed. Why should it be any different in here?
GV attacks when the opposition had true air superiority already failed in the MA. With an airplane that the average player can easily kill GVs with just by shooting, it doesn't take domination of the skies to fail GV attacks, it takes one Il2 remaining un-kilt for a couple of minutes.
And the IL2 does not make dive bombing GVs obsolete nor does it unbalance the arena. No one has yet provided any evidence on how it causes any sort of unbalance. However, there have been many tips given on how to protect yourself if you're a GV against the IL2. If you're in a Tiger and you're attacking a base without any air/AA protection and you see an enemy IL2 or any other attack plane heading towards you, you really can't whine when you get killed.
How does it NOT make dive-bombing GVs near-obsolete? It is much, much easier to kill a tank with an Il2's 37MMs than by dive-bombing, upping a HurrIID, or upping a tank, it is as simple as that.
I'm not even touching that "unbalance the game" thing, since I'm not sure that phrase has any meaning.
I think people like having the new Il2 guns because it fixes the problem of having your ords porked and then having no way to fight incoming GVs with airplanes. I'd rather have un-porkable ords as a solution to that problem, honestly.
The perk the "37mm cannon" whine is just like the whines about perking the LA 7, Spitfire Mk XVI, etc. It's just players trying to limit things because they don't have the necessary skill set to counter the threat.
ack-ack
Demonstrate to me the way by which an individual in a tank can counter the threat of of an individual in an Il2 w/37MMs? The tiny chance of main-gunning the Il2 if it gets sloppy? Hide until the Il2 goes away?
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The perk the "37mm cannon" whine is just like the whines about perking the LA 7, Spitfire Mk XVI, etc. It's just players trying to limit things because they don't have the necessary skill set to counter the threat.
Wait a second, what "skill" helps a Panzer driver counter the threat of an Il-2? Calling wirbels and fighters for help? I'm not ready to include the diplomatic skill of bringing lots of friends to a fight under the same category as skill in technique and tactical know-how. I'll let you clarify this statement before I draw any more conclusions.
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GV attacks when the opposition had true air superiority already failed in the MA. With an airplane that the average player can easily kill GVs with just by shooting, it doesn't take domination of the skies to fail GV attacks, it takes one Il2 remaining un-kilt for a couple of minutes.
Then you should make sure that your GVs have the proper protection to deal with the threat. Simple solution, amazed you and others having a very tough time to grasp it. I guess it's easier to cry "PERK IT!".
How does it NOT make dive-bombing GVs near-obsolete? It is much, much easier to kill a tank with an Il2's 37MMs than by dive-bombing, upping a HurrIID, or upping a tank, it is as simple as that.
Just because you won't dive bomb anymore doesn't mean others won't.
I'm not even touching that "unbalance the game" thing, since I'm not sure that phrase has any meaning.
Phrase has meaning, you just tend to ignore it because you can't provide any proof the IL2 with the 37mm cannon will unbalance the game play in the arena. Like I asked before, where is the proof?
I think people like having the new Il2 guns because it fixes the problem of having your ords porked and then having no way to fight incoming GVs with airplanes. I'd rather have un-porkable ords as a solution to that problem, honestly.
Who cares why they like it, as long as they have fun in it but that's an entirely different argument.
Demonstrate to me the way by which an individual in a tank can counter the threat of of an individual in an Il2 w/37MMs? The tiny chance of main-gunning the Il2 if it gets sloppy? Hide until the Il2 goes away?
If you're dumb enough to spawn in an area that has enemy planes flying around and controlling the air space, then do what the tank drivers in real life did, hide in the trees or under some sort of cover. If you can't find any then start counting down from 100 because probably by the time you get to 90, you're going to be dead.
Honestly, some in here whining to perk the 37mm cannons are nothing more than overly dramatic drama queens. The 37mm cannons on the IL2 is not the end of GVs in AH, just use some brains, adapt and *GASP* use different tactics.
ack-ack
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Wait a second, what "skill" helps a Panzer driver counter the threat of an Il-2? Calling wirbels and fighters for help? I'm not ready to include the diplomatic skill of bringing lots of friends to a fight under the same category as skill in technique and tactical know-how. I'll let you clarify this statement before I draw any more conclusions.
Skill set = tools. I'm sorry, I should have used layman terminology and phrased it in such a way that would have made it easier for you to understand.
Draw any conclusion you want, it still will not change the fact that you nor anyone else has been able to show with any sort of evidence that the 37mm cannons on the IL2 cause any sort of unbalance to the game play.
It's best to take this time to pick up your ball and go home.
ack-ack
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Wow, crying perk over an IL2 that isn't even good? If you know someone whose good in a Wirbel, have them be one instead of a Pnzr. Always keep them less than 400 away from you, and you will probably be okay. :noid
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How does it NOT make dive-bombing GVs near-obsolete? It is much, much easier to kill a tank with an Il2's 37MMs than by dive-bombing, upping a HurrIID, or upping a tank, it is as simple as that.
It's even easier to grab an un-perked Lancaster and do a salvo 14, delay .05 with 1000 lb bombs. That hasn't made dive-bombing GV's obsolete, and neither will this.
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deleted- I must remain polite.
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:rofl We've given plenty of reasons and evidence for perking the 37mm cannons, you simply choose to reject them all. Tell us ack-ack, what would be "unbalancing game play" for a ground attack aircraft to you?
Btw, it's interesting to see you going on and on about whiners and people who lack skill when you spend very little time in GV's yourself. Frankly, I'd be more willing to listen to someone who spends time in GV's if they said the 37mm cannons weren't worth perking.
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I'm going to try again, this time I will be as polite as I can.
A tank caught out in the open in broad day light, with a dedicated tank buster like the Il2 over them, SHOULD be dead meat. If you don't have CAP, or at the very least flak support, you're going to go down like Paris Hilton with the lights off and rightly so.
As someone said, any idiot an also take Lancasters and drop 1k lb bombs from a formation and do the same thing to a tank.
What is the new tag line HTC put into this current version? Yes, "Replace one worry with another".
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Delirium, tanks were already dead meat without some kind of protection before the new Il-2. Now they are dead meat much more quickly and with less effort. :P You spend very little time in gv's, so forgive me if I suggest that you spend more time tanking before you form an opinion here.
edit:
I should hedge a little and say: you've spent 1 hour in gv's this tour with 1 kill. I don't know much about what you've done in the past.
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Ok, next time you go tanking let me know where you are. I'll use the bazooka tubes on my P38J so you can ask for that to be perked too. :aok
I'll happy replace one worry with another.
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If you're dumb enough to spawn in an area that has enemy planes flying around and controlling the air space, then do what the tank drivers in real life did, hide in the trees or under some sort of cover. If you can't find any then start counting down from 100 because probably by the time you get to 90, you're going to be dead.
Honestly, some in here whining to perk the 37mm cannons are nothing more than overly dramatic drama queens. The 37mm cannons on the IL2 is not the end of GVs in AH, just use some brains, adapt and *GASP* use different tactics.
ack-ack
Good point.... But explain to me how you hide from enemy planes? They can see a GVs icon from 1.5k away, so all they have to do is make a couple of low passes and the GVs are seen. Hiding in a barn, in trees, behind a hill doesn't work.
I do believe that the IL2 is a bit of an overkill with the new guns. I'm not a WW2 historian, and I may be corrected, but I do not think that they were able to take out a tank in WW2 as easy as they can in the game. If they could it seems to reason that the US and British would have used the heck out of them on D-Day and thereafter.
I don't complain about the new guns, I just have to figure a way to work around them, but it should would be nice to be able to somewhat hide from aircraft as they appartently did in WW2. I would like the see the icon distance shorten to less than .5k.
That's my 2 cents on the subject.
Fred
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:rofl We've given plenty of reasons and evidence for perking the 37mm cannons, you simply choose to reject them all. Tell us ack-ack, what would be "unbalancing game play" for a ground attack aircraft to you?
A perfect example of how a plane would unbalance the game play was the Hispano armed Corsair back in the early days and an attack plane would have to unbalance the game play as the Corsair did.
Btw, it's interesting to see you going on and on about whiners and people who lack skill when you spend very little time in GV's yourself. Frankly, I'd be more willing to listen to someone who spends time in GV's if they said the 37mm cannons weren't worth perking.
I've been playing this game far longer than you have and if you were to go back from when I started around Tour 6 and total my GV hours from then until now, I'm willing to bet it will exceed your total hours in a GV.
ack-ack
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Main gun people, main gun. FTW.
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Demonstrate to me the way by which an individual in a tank can counter the threat of of an individual in an Il2 w/37MMs? The tiny chance of main-gunning the Il2 if it gets sloppy? Hide until the Il2 goes away?
Demonstrate to me the way by which an individual in a C-47 can counter the threat of of an individual in anything? There's no chance of main-gunning the anything if it gets sloppy? Hide until the anything goes away?
There you go..
Perk everything but the C-47!!!
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Well, while i agree that perking the 37mm IL2 may too much, but it for sure deserves a lower ENY rating.
Right now of course it shares its value of 25 with the 23 mm version, but it is without a doubt dramatically more effective.
So instead of perking it, I think a ENY of 10-15 would be more reasonable.
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as a GVer I've found the IL2 isn't uber. the 37 fires slowly, slowly so a little jinking can cause a miss, as opposed to firing a stream of shells to follow the tanks movements.
i've changed my tactics some coz my worry really isn't getting killed by the 37mm, it's getting tracked. i tend to try to get into a town in a hurry and get in a corner where its difficult to get a easy shot on me.
i still find an A20 to still be my primary worry, because 37mm requires a direct hit, but a bomb can kill a tank with a near miss.
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Adapt and Overcome.
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A perfect example of how a plane would unbalance the game play was the Hispano armed Corsair back in the early days and an attack plane would have to unbalance the game play as the Corsair did.
I doubt anything will ever come close to that "standard", including probably the C-Hog itself if it were unperked today. If the standard for "unbalancing the game play" is that one plane constitutes 1/4 of what you see in the air, ain't going to happen no matter what you unperk.
Using some more of your logic, since no perked aircraft or vehicle is un-stoppable, why not unperk them all?
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Well, while i agree that perking the 37mm IL2 may too much, but it for sure deserves a lower ENY rating.
Right now of course it shares its value of 25 with the 23 mm version, but it is without a doubt dramatically more effective.
So instead of perking it, I think a ENY of 10-15 would be more reasonable.
Not ENY--OBJ. OBJ rating is used for attacking ground targets. And, the entire planeset, IMO, is due for an OBJ revision. But, I'd support an OBJ adjustment.
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Leave the IL alone. it is hard enough to kill GV's now and the IL is the equalizer that us pilots needed to defend the bases against GV porking. I fly the F4U, F6F and the P38L. The only one of these planes that will even come close to killing GV's is the 38L and i usually have to bring rockets with me to finish them off. When your base is getting porked by no less then TEN GV's we need something to equalize.
I do not play the GV side of this great game because it is called Aces HIGH but i like the GV aspect of the game because i think it makes for a more well rounded game. It allows players who do not want to fly (I don't know WHY you wouldn't want to fly but that's just me :lol) to still make a difference in game.
Leave the IL-II alone.
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A tank caught out in the open in broad day light, with a dedicated tank buster like the Il2 over them, SHOULD be dead meat. If you don't have CAP, or at the very least flak support, you're going to go down like Paris Hilton with the lights off and rightly so.
Whoa, we're getting into what SHOULD be now? Okay, let me play. "Unescorted bombers SHOULD be dead meat, every time. Therefore, unperk the 262."
Do we all understand that in the MA you can't expect the level of cooperation you'd expect out of an actual military operation, or even an FSO? Even if you have some fighters in the area, they usually have bigger worries than protecting tanks from hedge-hopping Il2s. The level of air superiority that prevents Il2s being upped to attack GVs successfully is the "vulch"...IOW, if you have that level of air superiority, the base is all but captured and whatever the GVs are doing is irrelevant at that point anyway. Even if a tank has a flak tail-gating it, not too big a concern. I find an Il2 can usually absorb enough 20MMs to go on and bust the tank. If you get shot down, no big deal, Il2s are free and you can up another to be back over the spawn point in a minute or so. The one good preventative is ironically something I've heard complained about quite a bit in these forums: A horde of WWs moving in from the spawn point to attack.
Then again, I suspect making GVs more or less ineffective in attack is seen as a positive step by some.
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Yer ...I know I'm becoming a pain in the arse with this screen shot but I love it :rofl
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/IL2.jpg)
Like all things new it'll settle down in a few weeks. Like I said in another thread you'd be better off perking my noodle. WideWing made a valid point about the heavy bombs being discontinued. When it comes to Wirlies and some degree Osties they are still a handful to deal with. The IL-2 doesn't take kindly to oil or radiator hits forcing it to withdraw or face a ditch / death.
Adapt to the new situation. Go in pairs or take mostly wirlies and osties. Use fewer tanks but take some to guard against other Gv's. Have some air cover or at least pork the ords before the main thrust.
No longer can a T34 strut it's stuff on a porked base with impunity. No longer can it truck around towns immune to IL-2's. Adapt and concor.
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/IL21.jpg)
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I find an Il2 can usually absorb enough 20MMs to go on and bust the tank. If you get shot down, no big deal, Il2s are free and you can up another to be back over the spawn point in a minute or so.
Then again, I suspect making GVs more or less ineffective in attack is seen as a positive step by some.
Bingo.
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Well Ghost, as far as porking goes, IMO we need to do away with the fact that one suicide-fighter running in NOE can take away your bombs. And maybe make hangars harder to break or even unbreakable. I can empathize with the frustration of having the ords and VH taken out and then not having anything to kill incoming tanks with.
Okay, if your base is being porked by 10 GVs, you need something to equalize? Understandable sentiment. What if your base is being porked by 10 planes though? Were you implying that the new Il2 allows one player to counter 10 other players in GVs? If so, isn't that perhaps a sign that the 37s ARE little unbalancing?
What are you talking about, not being able to kill GVs with a Hog or Hellcat BTW? A 500 lbs bomb from any of the planes you list will easily kill a tank.
Leave the IL alone. it is hard enough to kill GV's now and the IL is the equalizer that us pilots needed to defend the bases against GV porking. I fly the F4U, F6F and the P38L. The only one of these planes that will even come close to killing GV's is the 38L and i usually have to bring rockets with me to finish them off. When your base is getting porked by no less then TEN GV's we need something to equalize.
I do not play the GV side of this great game because it is called Aces HIGH but i like the GV aspect of the game because i think it makes for a more well rounded game. It allows players who do not want to fly (I don't know WHY you wouldn't want to fly but that's just me :lol) to still make a difference in game.
Leave the IL-II alone.
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Time to chime in....strafed several Panzer 4's and Tigers with the new IL-2, multiple hits with the guns, no kills. (although I did down some poor schmuck with the rear MG-he was suprised :O) I'd say it's just fine the way it is.
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When it comes to Wirlies and some degree Osties they are still a handful to deal with. The IL-2 doesn't take kindly to oil or radiator hits forcing it to withdraw or face a ditch / death.
Who cares if you get a ditch or death? Its not like the thing is perked or anything.
............... take mostly wirlies and osties....................... ..at least pork the ords before the main thrust.
So, the GV attacks that DO succeed will be the most dweebish ones? Nice....
I've said a half-dozen times what I think of how easy it is to pork a base's ords.
No longer can a T34 strut it's stuff on a porked base with impunity. No longer can it truck around towns immune to IL-2's.
Well and good. Nowhere did I say remove the 37MMs from the game. Or even perk them very high. Just a light price to counter how easy it is to break up a tank attack with them, because, as I've said before, even if a flak shoots down your Il2, it only takes a minute to be back in the air and tank-busting again, IF one is totally unconcerned with ditching being shot down. Spawn-point to town or base typically takes just a BIT longer than that.
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... Just a light price to counter how easy it is to break up a tank attack with them, because, as I've said before, even if a flak shoots down your Il2, it only takes a minute to be back in the air and tank-busting again, IF one is totally unconcerned with ditching being shot down. Spawn-point to town or base typically takes just a BIT longer than that.
If they were slapped on a plane that had some reasonable chance of surviving against most other aircraft, I might see it. As it stands, the Il-2 is simply too much of a dog to be considered perkable. So it busts tanks really easily now? Heck.. send your support buddy in with a P47. The 50s may not be as effective as cannon, but the amount of ammo they carry makes up for it... then when the Il-2 driver gets tired of seeing the tower, he'll up a spit or LA.. ect. Threat over.
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If they were slapped on a plane that had some reasonable chance of surviving against most other aircraft, I might see it. As it stands, the Il-2 is simply too much of a dog to be considered perkable. So it busts tanks really easily now? Heck.. send your support buddy in with a P47. The 50s may not be as effective as cannon, but the amount of ammo they carry makes up for it... then when the Il-2 driver gets tired of seeing the tower, he'll up a spit or LA.. ect. Threat over.
Buddies? What buddies?
Seriously, I've found that when I've been hedgehopping in the thing hunting GVs, I don't get attacked much if there are any friendly airplanes above me at all that constitute a target/threat and the typical bnz passes you do get are easily dodged...fighters just don't want to dive to the deck and turn with the Il2 long enough to put themselves in a bad position relative the other fighters in the air.
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Let's be honest, this is less about a love for the new Il-2 than it is a disdain for gv's. Many never drive anything other than a wirbel or M-3, but enjoy killing tanks with bombs and rockets, and they see the new Il-2 as another tool in the box for dealing with an annoyance. I used to be the same way, and just recently started driving tanks because I wasn't happy with sucking in them in so badly. I still suck, but I like to think I've learned the basics. Some wouldn't agree that tanking takes skill, but it does. I ran into rondar the other night and he spanked me so badly I left the area. If tanking didn't involve some kind of skill, I should be rondar's equal after learning the basics, but he is lightyears ahead of me.
The game is called Aces High, but even the Il-2 demonstrates that the name ought not to be taken literally. A lot of good fighter pilots don't know how to calibrate the main arena bombsite. Being unfamiliar with ground vehicles is comparable. Lack of familiarity is not an argument against any aspect of this game; it's an opportunity to try something new.
Past cries to perk the wirbel are not comparable to a request for perking the 37mm cannon, it's the opposite: wanting the wirbel to be perked is comparable to not wanting the 37mm Il-2 to be perked.
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Sounds to me like you want to turn this into a GV vs. flyboy conflict much as the historical furballer/toolshedder rivalry.
Not going there for that's not the case. At least, not for me.
Last night I popped a couple GVs with the rockets and bombs of the Il-2 ( only got an assist with the cannon ) then, when the plethora of wirbies/osties erupted, I went on a feeding frenzy with a firefly.
Now that I know the Il-2 is going to be more prevalent, I'll be keeping an eye out for countrymen out GVing and then have some Sturmaganoff for dinner.
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Who cares if you get a ditch or death? Its not like the thing is perked or anything.
So, the GV attacks that DO succeed will be the most dweebish ones? Nice....
I've said a half-dozen times what I think of how easy it is to pork a base's ords.
Well and good. Nowhere did I say remove the 37MMs from the game. Or even perk them very high. Just a light price to counter how easy it is to break up a tank attack with them, because, as I've said before, even if a flak shoots down your Il2, it only takes a minute to be back in the air and tank-busting again, IF one is totally unconcerned with ditching being shot down. Spawn-point to town or base typically takes just a BIT longer than that.
OK mate... cards on the table. This is Aces High and not Aces Low. I come here to play using WWII aircraft. I play as a Strat player. I prefere planes over GV's any time of the day. Gv'ing for me and my game is part of the set NOT the main part of the set. I use them when appropriate or just for fun. For my game Gv's tend to be a hindrance rather than appreciated part of a "flying" game.
Appreciating there are skilled Gv'ers I find the vast majority of Gv'ers are infact failed or skilless flyer's. Granted...some may well prefere the whole Gv thing over the air thing but I can assure you they are the minority. I also have a problem understanding why a dedicated Gv'er comes to a flying game.
It is irksome to me to be on a push to look at the map and see one of our towns flashing. I'll guarantee 8 times out of 10 it's a cheeky newbie trying to have one of our bases away ....all be it part of the game.
For a flying game the IL-2 has it's place. It's a defence aircraft in my opinion. One wouldn't use them for base attack although some use them as fighters. They are fairly limited in their roll in this flying game. Their ord load has been reduced. There oil and radiator is as weak as it ever was. The wirlie & ostie are still a handfull. Fighters are still a handfull.
The old T34 was almost impervious to the old IL-2 which in my opinion was a little off. I see the new IL-2 as a balancer and if it gets some of our skilless, suicider, Lancstuker, gamey idiots to use them instead, then that's a bonus.....right?
No friend the IL-2 needs as much perking as my noodle does. Considering that the vast majority of folk are poor shots. Considering that many can't even dive bomb a Bomber hanger with degree of certainty let a loan a moving Gv ....it's a balancer, it's new and it's immediate popularity will settle down.
As for the comment about who cares about dying....Frankly I DO.
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Sounds to me like you want to turn this into a GV vs. flyboy conflict much as the historical furballer/toolshedder rivalry.
No, I still consider myself a fighter pilot first, and gv'r fourth after attack and bomber. Bnz and I have a lot more time tanking this tour (sept) than most of our critics here, and I've busted plenty of GV's in ground attack aircraft. I have experience on both sides, others don't.
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... I also have a problem understanding why a dedicated Gv'er comes to a flying game.
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What are the alternatives?
If you want a wide-ranging environment for different gameplay in an online environment, I don't know of any other than AH. At least, here, if you wander in as a dedicated GVer, you have the opportunity to expand your horizon and take to the air.
WW2OL had a good GV aspect, as well as infantry, of course, and their immersion level is probably superior to AH, but their quotas and mission restrictions were not conducive to knowing that you can enter the game and at least be able to find a fight somewhere. Not sure if that's changed.. haven't been back in a couple years. Gave up after not being able to amass enough rank to fly anything other than a Hawk 75.. if you could even find one.
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Using some more of your logic, since no perked aircraft or vehicle is un-stoppable, why not unperk them all?
Personally, I only think the ME 262, and ME 163 should be perked.
ack-ack
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Buddies? What buddies?
Squadron mates...
ack-ack
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Ever notice how the whine seems to continue and the only thing that changes is what they are whining about?
The 20mm wirbel whine got a whole lot of mileage. The thing about perking it. Now the whine has changed to perking the 37mms on the IL2. And before the perk the wirbel whine the "perk the 3 20mm LA-7 option" whine was still strong.
Nevermind that most experienced pilots dont really worry about the LA-7 and/or that we developed coping skills to deal with wirbels. One of which is now the 37mm IL2, which pretty much equalizes the threat of the wirbels and GVs. My belief is the game has never had better balance then it does now.
NOW the real decisive edge is skill and teamwork. The HiTech staff has done a tremendous job with the game in my opinion. Aces High has evolved into THE Premiere air war game/online sim in the world today. The game is at its best right now.
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Personally, I only think the ME 262, and ME 163 should be perked.
ack-ack
Well, cool. I do not agree, but you are consistent, so I can respect that.
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I believe its harder to kill and damage tanks with 37mms on planes than you think. You have to be close, within 400. Secondly, you only get a couple chances on one pass. Thirdly, especially with the IL2, elevators may be weak so pulling up early is a must. Augering is very common against GVs and sometimes this goes unrecognized.
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now.. what does this mean.. from the release notes of the new patch:
The Il-2's 37mm cannons and gunner now damage correctly.
haven't installed yet... wonder if they mean they now take damage correctly, or...... :noid
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I dont understand the "perk my noodle" comments.... :uhoh
:noid
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Anyone wounder how many il-2 will be shot down with the fireflys main gun now that it has been fixed?
The empire strikes back! :rock
Time will tell.
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Appreciating there are skilled Gv'ers I find the vast majority of Gv'ers are infact failed or skilless flyer's. Granted...some may well prefere the whole Gv thing over the air thing but I can assure you they are the minority. I also have a problem understanding why a dedicated Gv'er comes to a flying game.
<S> LYNX I can assure you sir there are " skilled " flyer's that like to GV . I also disagree with you as far as GV'ers being in the minority. This is a all around game that also has sea battles. Love this game, but it is not just a flying game. Lots of strategy to the game. The IL-2 is a great plane to stop GV's.......dang it !
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<S> LYNX I can assure you sir there are " skilled " flyer's that like to GV . I also disagree with you as far as GV'ers being in the minority. This is a all around game that also has sea battles. Love this game, but it is not just a flying game. Lots of strategy to the game. The IL-2 is a great plane to stop GV's.......dang it !
I understand many folk skilled or otherwise like to Gv at times but I didn't say it was a minority. Granted...some may well prefere the whole Gv thing over the air thing but I can assure you they are the minority.
I was inferring that those that came here specifically to GV are a minority. Many will mix and match but the vast majority spend more time in planes.....that's why their here.
Once the novelty wears off you'll be welcomed by the usual parade of pissed off GV'ers in Lancstukers :rolleyes: Gv sneaks maybe a little risky which will only intensify more use of Wirlies and Ostie's. T34's can no longer strut their stuff in the face of IL-2s.....yin with the yang :salute
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Whoa, we're getting into what SHOULD be now? Okay, let me play. "Unescorted bombers SHOULD be dead meat, every time. Therefore, unperk the 262."
The difference is, no matter how well the bombers are escorted, a 262 will always get through. It should be perked.
What will happen when they add the better armored Stuka? Are you telling me you are going to perk a Stuka too?
How many times have people asked for a perk on the La7, Spit16, Nik, or to make a rolling plane set based on a perk system? It isn't going to happen so you might as well learn new strategies instead of wasting time on the forums complaining about it.
Besides, I remember stopping a GV mission of more than 30 guys with the 23mm Il2, long before the current update. Frankly, with the 23mm you have a higher duration of fire and it can defend itself in the air better as well. You just need to aim for vital areas on the tank, with each tank having it's own 'sweet spot'.
There is a reason aircraft were feared over an armored column, now you get to experience it.
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OK mate... cards on the table. This is Aces High and not Aces Low. I come here to play using WWII aircraft. I play as a Strat player. I prefere planes over GV's any time of the day. Gv'ing for me and my game is part of the set NOT the main part of the set. I use them when appropriate or just for fun. For my game Gv's tend to be a hindrance rather than appreciated part of a "flying" game.
Appreciating there are skilled Gv'ers I find the vast majority of Gv'ers are infact failed or skilless flyer's. Granted...some may well prefere the whole Gv thing over the air thing but I can assure you they are the minority. I also have a problem understanding why a dedicated Gv'er comes to a flying game.
It is irksome to me to be on a push to look at the map and see one of our towns flashing. I'll guarantee 8 times out of 10 it's a cheeky newbie trying to have one of our bases away ....all be it part of the game.
For a flying game the IL-2 has it's place. It's a defence aircraft in my opinion. One wouldn't use them for base attack although some use them as fighters. They are fairly limited in their roll in this flying game. Their ord load has been reduced. There oil and radiator is as weak as it ever was. The wirlie & ostie are still a handfull. Fighters are still a handfull.
The old T34 was almost impervious to the old IL-2 which in my opinion was a little off. I see the new IL-2 as a balancer and if it gets some of our skilless, suicider, Lancstuker, gamey idiots to use them instead, then that's a bonus.....right?
No friend the IL-2 needs as much perking as my noodle does. Considering that the vast majority of folk are poor shots. Considering that many can't even dive bomb a Bomber hanger with degree of certainty let a loan a moving Gv ....it's a balancer, it's new and it's immediate popularity will settle down.
As for the comment about who cares about dying....Frankly I DO.
Where do I start? I don't think many of the full or mostly full time GVers came to this game to GV. I think many are like me, they came and was drawn into the GV part of the game and ended up liking it better than flying. In my case I found that I like GVing and I fly for a change of pace.
I have found many of the full time GVers that I play with on a daily basis are skilled flyer's. Some of them are the best dive bombers I have seen, so to state that most, except for the few, are skillless flyer's I believe is an incorrect statement. Some may not be as skilled as others in flying due to them spending their time in a GV instead.
I also wonder why you have a problem why anyone comes to the game. Right now this is the fairest GV game in the business without having to resort to, (I'm going to get in trouble for saying this), cheat codes. If you know of another dedicated interactive game that is GV based and has the high standards as Aces High, let me know, I'll sign up in a minute.
I love reading the forums where the "old players" "state this is a flight game and it will always remain that way", and then they pull some 5 year old quote from Hitech saying that. Just in the year and a couple of months that I have been on, HTC has added new vehicles, and I have seen the amount of GVers increase.
I'm not a business man, but I bet Hitech is, and if he sees where there is a market for GVers, and he can incorporate that into the game with the same high standards as the flight game, I assure you he will. This will increase his market share as well as revenues. That is simply smart business. I'm sure he wants the best game in the business, and I am also sure he wants to make money.
Lynx I have read many of your posts on the forum and in most cases I agree with you. My post is not meant to piss you are anyone else off, but I just couldn't agree with some of your feelings. People are here in this game for many reasons. Many do not care if they become the most skilled pilot or GVer in the game. They simply come here to have fun. Many want to increase their skills, and many could care less as long as they can get off the ground, or get the vehicle moving. I learned through my half century of living that trying to figure out why people think the way they do is a losing proposition.
Fred
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Well put Fred :salute Just difference of opinion but I confess my knowledge of other tank games is lacking. If HTC's game is right up there then fair play to them.
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Well Ghost, as far as porking goes, IMO we need to do away with the fact that one suicide-fighter running in NOE can take away your bombs. And maybe make hangars harder to break or even unbreakable. I can empathize with the frustration of having the ords and VH taken out and then not having anything to kill incoming tanks with.
Just because the ord or VH's are down in no way means you cannot take out tanks. There have ALWAYS been options to do that such as up from a different base ETC. but with the new and improved IL-II we can continue the fight without having to up from a further base. It allows the defender a better chance at survival and the attacker can feel better when they actually take the base because it was a well and hard fought battle. No more one sided fights...isn't that a good thing??
Okay, if your base is being porked by 10 GVs, you need something to equalize? Understandable sentiment. What if your base is being porked by 10 planes though? Were you implying that the new Il2 allows one player to counter 10 other players in GVs? If so, isn't that perhaps a sign that the 37s ARE little unbalancing?
Not at all. you will still need more than one player to defend a base against ANY attacker...GV or not. This game is all about teamwork and you need it to both attack and defend a base. As for the question of 10 planes......simply up planes and defend. There is no difference between an attacker using 10 GV's or an attacker using 10 planes. either way you still need to defend the base, it is just a matter of how and what you use to defend said base based on what the attackers are using.
What are you talking about, not being able to kill GVs with a Hog or Hellcat BTW? A 500 lbs bomb from any of the planes you list will easily kill a tank.
Yes, It will kill a GV but not easily. Dive bombing a GV is difficult due to the fact that you cant even line up on them until your low and can see them. It would be easier to strafe and kill a GV than to bomb it. It is easy to shoot the big gun of a tank and hit a building...why not make it just as easy to kill the Tank with a gun from a plane??
Historically, Armored columns feared aircraft for this very reason. Even the P-51 could kill a tank with its .50 Cal's. airplanes are hard to shoot down with a tank. If the Gv drivers were honest with themselves and with everyone else they would tell you that they have had it easy up until now. a Panzer or T-34 driver had little to fear from aircraft until now. I believe that it is a welcome and long overdue addition.
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a Panzer or T-34 driver had little to fear from aircraft until now.
Wow. :confused:
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While I agree with most of what you ghostber, I do not agree with you on the having it easy until now part.
GVers did have it easywhen it was only one plane and yes they had it easy once the con usually made 2 passes and dropped their bombs, but there are many who make it look easy to divebomb and when they come for you your time is limited. I said most planes because most divebombers use planes that only carry 2 bombs so the exception would be the few planes that carry more like the A20.
I do feel though that the IL2 should not be perked even though it will tend to push those that are just looking for gv battles closer to the vehicle bases and futher away from the airbases (not necessarily a bad thing though).
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I do feel though that the IL2 should not be perked even though it will tend to push those that are just looking for gv battles closer to the vehicle bases and futher away from the airbases (not necessarily a bad thing though).
Yup, I'm pretty much staying away from any gv fights near an airfield. The map we have in orange right now is good for that because it has at least two places for gv fights that are more than a sector away from an airfield. I guess that is what some here call "skill."
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Even the P-51 could kill a tank with its .50 Cal's.
Pardon? Source?
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Like I said in another thread you'd be better off perking my noodle. -- Lynx
No friend, the IL-2 needs as much perking as my noodle does. -- Lynx
Is there anything else that we should be aware of regarding your noodle?
:noid
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Pardon? Source?
I almost responded myself. But, lets not get going on this as it would completely derail the discussion. A new thread may be appropriate, although the topic has been discussed before.
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I know, I just haven't seen it brought up in a few years and couldn't resist. :devil
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now.. what does this mean.. from the release notes of the new patch:
haven't installed yet... wonder if they mean they now take damage correctly, or...... :noid
I think it is referring to a report in the bugs forum where the cannon, when damaged, were not turning red when you had the alt-d option showing (or was it not showing in the right order? Too lazy to go look).
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This post goes on forever, sorry, no time.
Bottom line....... If anything, perk it under 10. That way you wont have every noob upping it and getting the lucky shot.
Since the update, I have upped the IL-2 instead of a B25h or 110, that much is for sure. It is GREAT!
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Ah yes.
Just as I've foreseen.
And they didn't believe me when I said the Ju87G needed to be perked if it ever comes out in AH2.
Now some of you finally understand what I've been warning all along.
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And they didn't believe me when I said the Ju87G needed to be perked if it ever comes out in AH2.
You must be kidding, you want them to perk a Stuka even BEFORE it is released? Are you aware just how slow and vulnerable Stukas are to anything, including C202s?
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You must be kidding, you want them to perk a Stuka even BEFORE it is released?
Not unprecedented. The Spit14 was perked from the start.
Are you aware just how slow and vulnerable Stukas are to anything, including C202s?
Irrelevant.
The Chog isn't perked because it's unkillable or superior to every other plane in performance. It's perked because its status as both CV/land based plane, and the variety of armament options, gives it higher utility as an aircraft that impacts the arena on a wide area.
Much the same, the only matter of concern with Ju87Gs is not with how it performs against other aircrafts, but rather, how it performs against targets of its primary orientation - how its utility as an anti-tank aircraft impacts the ground war aspect of the game. In that sense, a cannon capable of achieving total penetration against every single one of our GVs from all angles, all directions, and all (practical) distances is definately perk-worthy.
Since I stand by my argument, I was indeed very interested in how the IL-2 37mms would impact the ground war - and many of the opinions on this thread confirms it. The 37mm anti-tank cannons need to be classified as a 'perked ordnance' option, when this system becomes available in game.
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This game is not all MA, its also special events. The plane sets need to work there too in historical setups.
"In that sense, a cannon capable of achieving total penetration against every single one of our GVs from all angles, all directions, and all (practical) distances is definately perk-worthy."
I assume you are not talking about Ju87G cannons after all because IRL they were not that good.
"The 37mm anti-tank cannons need to be classified as a 'perked ordnance' option, when this system becomes available in game."
I agree if the option is to have either bombs or guns available which is not a good option IMO and causes problems in special event setups.
-C+
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Ah yes.
Just as I've foreseen.
And they didn't believe me when I said the Ju87G needed to be perked if it ever comes out in AH2.
Now some of you finally understand what I've been warning all along.
Thank god! HT and the community would be lost without you. Keep up the good work :aok
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Not unprecedented. The Spit14 was perked from the start.
Yes, but at least HTC actually had the graphic design and had implemented the Spit14 in the game. The Stuka G isn't even on the drawing board for pete's sake.
Wow... I can see the future now, "Hey! They MIGHT be adding napalm and it should be perked 3 years before release date. It can be used against town buildings or airfields, setting everything combustible (and some things that aren't ) on fire with no luck in putting it out. White Phosphorous should be immediately banned 7 years before the date it will be release because it can kill from any orientation."
:rofl
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Well, I just checked my stats this tour. I have 5 kills in the Il2, all vehicles. I have one death from being main-gunned by a tank. My 1 kill of a WW thus to far was in an Il2. I have taken the turret of several others and received assists when they were killed with by someone else. This is also the case with tanks, I have probably more assists on tanks I rendered helpless through turreting/tracking than outright kills. And, it must be emphasized I am a terrible shot.
I stand by my conclusions that when their is an air-fight going on, the enemy fighters just can't or won't dive to the deck to turnfight an NOE Il2 long enough to get the kill when other friendly fighters are present. I will track these stats further and use the A-20 instead of the Il2 for defense when FHs are down to avoid muddying the statistical waters.
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Thank god! HT and the community would be lost without you. Keep up the good work :aok
Sweet jebus, my Acme sarcasm detector just exploded.
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Sweet jebus, my Acme sarcasm detector just exploded.
I just hope they perk the B29 also. Been warning them about that for years
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IF we get the Stuka with 37MMs, it will have far fewer rounds than the Il2's 37s. Presumably it will also be more vulnerable to flak fire, and, if anything like the HurriIID, suffer more from recoil when firing the big guns. So I'd say make it the unperked option when/if we get it, make the NS37s cost 3-5.
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Thank god! HT and the community would be lost without you. Keep up the good work
Indeed.
What would AH do without my shining intellect?
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Indeed.
What would AH do without my shining intellect?
Not have as many chuckles..for one thing.
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The gods summon kweassa to the forums whenever there is an excess amount of bs. :aok
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deleted
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The gods summon kweassa to the forums whenever there is an excess amount of bs. :aok
Yep, to ensure it over flows.
ack-ack
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The gods summon kweassa to the forums whenever there is an excess amount of bs
Hey, it's no picnic being a voice of reason!