Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JG_Sunbird on October 05, 2008, 09:36:46 AM
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http://www.counterpunch.org/valentine06132008.html
:huh
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McCain should be respected for fighting in Vietnam. However, I think he was a fairly poor pilot. He graduated third from the bottom of his class, failed a major exam, and lost 5 airplanes. His father was an Admiral, and you can be pretty sure that had some effect on his career. Also, due to a fire caused by McCains plane, he nearly sunk the U.S.S. Forrestal.
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I see that Ward Churchill is a contributor, and Fidel Castro has been published in this newsletter.
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I agree with the point that there's a world of difference between being a combat pilot and a soldier on the ground, but I don't feel comfortable with drawing such stark moral distinctions.
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Did you actuall read this drivel?
The pilots had comfortable quarters beside the airstrip in Port Moresby. When orders for a mission came down, they’d climb in their planes, rattle down the runway, and soar over the Owen Stanley Mountains with the clouds in spotless uniforms, breathing fresh clean air. The Glory Boys weren’t trapped in the broiling jungle, in the mud and pouring rain, their skin rotting away, chewed by ghastly insects, bitten by poisonous snakes, stricken with cerebral malaria, yellow fever, dysentery, and a host of unknown diseases delivered by unknown parasites.
Not what I have read and heard from the guys who were stationed ay Henderson Field. Most HAD dysentary and suffered the same maladies as the ground troops. This guy is NUTS!!!!
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Bottom line anyone with politician next to their name is not to be trusted.
To bad no one fielded a reasonable choice for president.
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Also, due to a fire caused by McCains plane, he nearly sunk the U.S.S. Forrestal.
Really? Do share the whole story!
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McCain should be respected for fighting in Vietnam. However, I think he was a fairly poor pilot. He graduated third from the bottom of his class, failed a major exam, and lost 5 airplanes. His father was an Admiral, and you can be pretty sure that had some effect on his career. Also, due to a fire caused by McCains plane, he nearly sunk the U.S.S. Forrestal.
McCains plane was hit by a Zuni rocket that was launched by an electrical malfunction on an aircraft on the other side of the Carrier. Nice how you put it though... McCain nearly sinks the Forrestal because he's a republican ass.
Classic.
I agree with the point that there's a world of difference between being a combat pilot and a soldier on the ground, but I don't feel comfortable with drawing such stark moral distinctions.
Soldiers on the ground, if captured; were normally tortured and killed. Low value to Hanoi. VERY few captured soldiers survived... Pilots, having a significantly higher level of education and training were of significant value to the Vietnamese as bargaining chips with both the Russians and the Americans. The Russians for technical de-briefing.. those with advanced radar and weapons training, especially nuclear delivery training were normally 'disappeared' by the russians and very few were ever returned.
That war was real, folks; people died horrible deaths. McCain climbed into an unarmed 2'nd generation bomb truck to fly low level attack runs into the most effectively defended airspace of the era... 23 missions. To have any man attempt to minimise his skills and sacrafice with cheap shots.. and then parrot that crap here indicates an utter disrespect for the men that served in harms way.
McCain attended the U.S. Naval Academy from 1954 to 1958, and was commissioned as an ensign in June of that year. He retired in April 1981 with the rank of captain. In that time he received 17 awards and decorations. Besides the Silver Star Medal, McCain also received the Legion of Merit with a combat "V" and one gold star, a Distinguished Flying Cross and a Bronze Art Medal with a combat "V" and two gold stars.
Several citations mention his achievements either as a prisoner or as a lieutenant commander flying bombing runs off the deck of the USS Oriskany. Some are signed by then-Secretary of the Navy John Warner, who would become a colleague of McCain's in the Senate.
The citations refer to his "accurate ordnance delivery" and his "aggressive and skillful airmanship." He earned his Bronze Star the day before he was shot down, for participating in a mission over an airfield in Phuc Yen, 11 miles north of Hanoi.
The citation for his Distinguished Flying Cross sums up McCain's misfortune the following day:
"Although his aircraft was severely damaged, he continued his bomb delivery pass and released his bombs on the target. When the aircraft would not recover from the dive, Commander McCain was forced to eject over the target."
He may have been an Admirals son, be he was never anybody's fair-haired boy. He earned his awards, he served with distinction.
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:salute
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unbelievable, why do people bring up crap like this-- he is running for president, you ijots keep bringing up crap that has no substance. Either the bs about obama or mccain. None of the flaming in here is worth the effort, the candidates are quite capable-both of them, it is whether you agree to how they will handle the economy and foreign policy, that is it. Who cares if they wet their pants in kindergarten.
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Really? Do share the whole story!
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print
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DOUGLAS VALENTINE is 100% retarded.
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Also, due to a fire caused by McCains plane, he nearly sunk the U.S.S. Forrestal.
And his plane was charged with arson, public intoxication, and sodomy of a water fowl.
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obama is an muslim terrorist mole waiting for his chance to destroy america....I read it on the inTARDnet and I believe it.
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Hangtime, you've been blinded with propaganda and fear. I'm also a Republican. I have no reason to spread lies. Unlike you guys, I'm not afraid of either candidate.
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I'm also a Republican.
:rofl
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Apparently shrimp doesn't realize that the Forrestal incident is rather well documented by folks who were actually there as well as including film. Then again that's not surprising given the misconception that a lackluster academic classroom performance equates to battlefield action performance.
:rolleyes:
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Hangtime, you've been blinded with propaganda and fear. I'm also a Republican. I have no reason to spread lies. Unlike you guys, I'm not afraid of either candidate.
McCain should be respected for fighting in Vietnam. However, I think he was a fairly poor pilot. He graduated third from the bottom of his class, failed a major exam, and lost 5 airplanes. His father was an Admiral, and you can be pretty sure that had some effect on his career. Also, due to a fire caused by McCains plane, he nearly sunk the U.S.S. Forrestal.
Lies.
Both of 'em. From your keyboard.
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^
Aquashrimp, go ahead and read the Forrestal reports and then go ahead and retract your BS statement.
Otherwise, you're just another tool of the Obamessiah spew machine.
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http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print
Fair is fair and observable fact is what it is too. If any of this drivel had basis on either I would have no fault with you. That clearly is not the case. It is sad that neither of you have enough self respect to put honesty ahead of your desperation for attention. If you are looking for what weighs heavily on this country, just look in the mirror. You are no better than the worst of what you accuse others of being. Unfortunately, this planet is overwhelmingly populated by others who share your arrogance and complete lack of all that makes humanity great. Fortunately, there are still many around who will bear your despicable burden and help hold all of our society from becoming like you. I'm not fond of John McCain but he is much more than you will ever likely be. Until the day comes that you are much more of a man than you are now you have no right to act as you do. Given your failings I doubt you will ever have the courage.
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Both of them suck. Just like we have here with Brown and Cameron. Shame.
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Hangtime, you've been blinded with propaganda and fear. I'm also a Republican. I have no reason to spread lies. Unlike you guys, I'm not afraid of either candidate.
John McCain claims to be a republican too.
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I'm also a Republican. I have no reason to spread lies.
And yet you just lied about your political party of choice. Amazing.
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who in their right mind would slander John McCain's war record?
Worst.
Thread.
Ever.
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who in their right mind would slander John McCain's war record?
Swiftboat Vets for Justice would, if he were running as a Democrat.
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Seems the Republicans aren't the only ones doing "swiftboating".
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I'm glad this thread came up. First let me say it sickens me that someone would try to discredit a man's war record. It is just that, record. He went, he served, he survived. I respect him for doing that. <<S>>
Second, where were you guys when they were doing the same thing to John Kerry? Forget the protesting afterward, that's a seperate subject and completely fair game. I'm talking about time spent in country. Give credit where credit is due.
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I'm glad this thread came up. First let me say it sickens me that someone would try to discredit a man's war record. It is just that, record. He went, he served, he survived. I respect him for doing that. <<S>>
Second, where were you guys when they were doing the same thing to John Kerry? Forget the protesting afterward, that's a seperate subject and completely fair game. I'm talking about time spent in country. Give credit where credit is due.
John McCain didn't come back home after a few minor injuries and slander the rest of the troops.
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And yet you just lied about your political party of choice. Amazing.
Unlike you, I vote for the best political candidate. Not the one my party chooses.
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I'm glad this thread came up. First let me say it sickens me that someone would try to discredit a man's war record. It is just that, record. He went, he served, he survived. I respect him for doing that. <<S>>
Second, where were you guys when they were doing the same thing to John Kerry? Forget the protesting afterward, that's a seperate subject and completely fair game. I'm talking about time spent in country. Give credit where credit is due.
If it sickens you that we would look at the facts objectively, then I hope you die.
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If it sickens you that we would look at the facts objectively, then I hope you die.
You know there is nothing objective about the trash you posted. You also clearly illustrate your complete lack of integrity and basic human decency. There is nothing wrong with being objective or disagreeing on opinion. There is everything wrong with the traits you display here and on many other threads. It should be clear why no one respects people like you. It is well earned.
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If it sickens you that we would look at the facts objectively, then I hope you die.
That is so over-the-top crazy talk.
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I made several attempt at translating
Also, due to a fire caused by McCains plane, he nearly sunk the U.S.S. Forrestal.
but none ended with McCain responsability engaged
I'm missing something ?
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John McCain didn't come back home after a few minor injuries and slander the rest of the troops.
Nor did John throw his medals over the whitehouse fence... only to proudly display them in his senate office 20 years later.
John came home, fought his way back to flight status, and earned command of a Squadron. He served 22 Years in the Navy, commanding men.
Kerry was less than offal. He was traitorous offal.
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...he nearly sunk the U.S.S. Forrestal.
I <S> you, AquaShrimp. I have spent fifteen years trolling on the Intardnet...through three wars, and a dozen minor skirmishes I have been casting stinkbaits like "OJ is one more African American lynched by white justice" and "If not for Bush's ban on stem cell research Christopher Reeve would not only be alive today, he'd be walking..."
But your Forrestal remark is stinky bait unlike any I could even dream of coming up with- "He nearly sunk the ship" is sheer genius among the fishers of gullibale souls, such as me.
:salute man, and :rock on.
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I made several attempt at translating
but none ended with McCain responsability engaged
I'm missing something ?
He was missing something when he posted that, facts. McCain's plane was hit when another plane accidentally fired a rocket/missile which hit his plane, both planes were still on the deck. The ship was badly damaged in the resulting fire and many sailors lost their lives. McCain was burned. McCain could have left the theater but volunteered to stay and was transferrred to another ship. he was shot down and captured not long after that.
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http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print
:lol
wow, rolling stone?
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Also, due to a fire caused by McCains plane, he nearly sunk the U.S.S. Forrestal.
Gotta raise the male bovine excrement flag on this one. IIRC, the Zuni rocket came off a F-4 Phantom. McCain flew an A-4.
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http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print
Wow, what an extremely biased article without any facts. I wonder how long the writer would have been able to endure the torture McCain or any other US POW in Hanoi did.
ack-ack
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Attacking a decorated hero's war record just because you disagree with his politics is about as low as you can sink.
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I don't get it?
McCain's war record is what it is. He served with distinction.... did his duty, flew combat, put his life on the line and suffered in a POW camp.
I really cannot see how anyone would attack that or attempt to spin it as a negative in some way?
The thing about McCain that I do not like is that I do not see anything in his military record that qualifies him to be President of the United States and his military career is the pinnacle of his life's achievement as far as I am concerned. Since he left the Military, what has he achieved? What has he LEAD? What executive experience does he have? What huge and clear successes can he point to as examples of the benefits we can expect from his leadership?
Since he joined the US Senate..... the National debt has gone up by over 10 times, the US has totally squandered a victory in the Cold War, US entitlement obligations have more than doubled, our campaign finance and election system have become grossly corrupt.... the general failures go on an on.
I fail to see how anyone can rationalize things to the point where McCain appears palatable. He is a poster boy for all that is wrong with Washington. He IS big Govt. failure and the corruption of career political operatives.
McCain is an excellent example of all that is wrong with our political system. So is Obama for what its worth....
Fang
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...Also, due to a fire caused by McCains plane, he nearly sunk the U.S.S. Forrestal.
I give this 200 KRUSTYS.
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Hey guys lay off Aquadork. He readi it in a book or something in college so it MUST be true. You know all of us vets that actually served don't know anything about the military or what really happened.
He's real book smart so he has to be right :rolleyes:
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the nice think about book learning is when the book gets kicked up his sphincter.. those sharp pointy corners can make an impression.
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If it sickens you that we would look at the facts objectively, then I hope you die.
You wouldn't know how to look at anything Republican objectively if God himself taught you a class in doing so.
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I don't get it?
The thing about Obama that I do not like is that I do not see anything in his record that qualifies him to be President of the United States and his senate career is the pinnacle of his life's achievement as far as I am concerned. Since he was born, what has he achieved? What has he LEAD? What executive experience does he have? What huge and clear successes can he point to as examples of the benefits we can expect from his leadership?
Since he joined the US Senate..... the National debt has gone up by over 10 times, the US has totally squandered a victory in the Cold War, US entitlement obligations have more than doubled, our campaign finance and election system have become grossly corrupt.... the general failures go on an on.
I fail to see how anyone can rationalize things to the point where Obama appears palatable. He is a poster boy for all that is wrong with Washington. He IS big Govt. failure and the corruption of career political operatives.
Obama is an excellent example of all that is wrong with our political system.
Fixed
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If it sickens you that we would look at the facts objectively, then I hope you die.
This alone ought to earn you a PNG....unreal you'd say that....then again.....reading some of what I have read and heard this political season...WHy should I find this over the top.
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I give this 200 KRUSTYS.
:rofl :aok
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Also, due to a fire caused by McCains plane, he nearly sunk the U.S.S. Forrestal.
You sir are a numpty.
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I give this 200 KRUSTYS.
That estimation my friend.. is on the low end.
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I don't get it?
Fang
Think 2004.
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If it sickens you that we would look at the facts objectively, then I hope you die.
AquaChimp, you are one class act.
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McCain should be respected for fighting in Vietnam. However, I think he was a fairly poor pilot. He graduated third from the bottom of his class, failed a major exam, and lost 5 airplanes. His father was an Admiral, and you can be pretty sure that had some effect on his career. Also, due to a fire caused by McCains plane, he nearly sunk the U.S.S. Forrestal.
McCain's plane caused the fire? Please elaborate. :huh
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[sarcasm]
Well you see, McCain knew he'd be running for president, and he's so evil, that after already knowing that, he purposely set it afire and then, didn't take the blame for it and pointed out obviously to something simpler, like a mechanical error with the plane. But he's really evil
[/sarcasm]
:noid :noid :noid
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McCain should be respected for fighting in Vietnam. However, I think he was a fairly poor pilot. He graduated third from the bottom of his class, failed a major exam, and lost 5 airplanes. His father was an Admiral, and you can be pretty sure that had some effect on his career. Also, due to a fire caused by McCains plane, he nearly sunk the U.S.S. Forrestal.
USS Forestall fire was caused by a missile that ignited accidentally. McCain was there, right in the middle of it. There is a video on this whole thing. Watched several times while I was in the Navy. Read the after action reports at safety school. This accident is studied (or was when I was in) in most of the Navy safety schools. Its easy to second guess some actions under stress. Especially if you have never been in wartime operations. Its a lot different than watching it on TV. Not near a fun.
Graduating position in your class in Annapolis has little to do with your pilot ability. Just to be selected fighters means he was a above average pilot coming out of training. The accident rate for aircraft in all of our services was quite high in the 60s.
USN Retired(and a Democrat)
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Fixed
No problems from me with your changes....
Neither Obama nor McCain is qualified to be President as far as I am concerned. Either way.... we are screwed. Would you prefer your corrupt, bought and paid for political squeak slapping in vanilla or chocolate?
Fang
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what? no strawberries? haldeman got strawberries. erlichman got strawberries.
i want strawberries.
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One thin I didn't mentioned in this thread McCain could have been released if he would have signed a statement .
Wonder how many of us would have refused with his injuries and the fact that he knew torture was coming his way .
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Also, due to a fire caused by McCains plane, he nearly sunk the U.S.S. Forrestal.
That has got to take the cake for the most retarded accusation I have heard in my entire life. IIRC, it was McCains plane that was HIT by a missile.
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Aqua is just demonstrating once again that books can't teach you everything and that he is a complete idiot when it comes to history. He likes to make it up as he goes along.
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who in their right mind would slander John Kerry's war record?
Worst.
Thread.
Ever.
Fixed! :aok
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Hey, it looks as if the LA Times this morning has picked up on McCain's dubious history:
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-aviator6-2008oct06,0,7633315.story
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McCain: "John, you were right"
Kerry: "See you back at the senate"
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Hey, it looks as if the LA Times this morning has picked up on McCain's dubious history:
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-aviator6-2008oct06,0,7633315.story
Hmm how many error free flight hours in a military aircraft does Obama have? ;)
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Hmm how many error free flight hours in a military aircraft does Obama have? ;)
George Bush had quite a few, and turned out to be a really smashing president. If by smashing, you mean smashing the economy.
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Simply amazing. A young hot shot Naval Aviator who was known to push the envelope by everyone who flew with him crashed two planes, and banged up a third. Had his plane blown up while on the deck from an accident that was not his doing, got hurt in the process from shrapnel, choose to stay in theater when he had the option to leave, and ended up getting shot down by a SAM while on a bomb run and spent 5 1/2 years as a POW.
When he was released, he continued to serve in the Navy, ended up commanding a fighter squadron, flew thousands of more hours in military and civilian aircraft with 0 incidents. I think it's safe to assume that he learned from those incidents and that made him a better pilot and commander in the long run.
I also love how the folks that are bashing him on this stupid stuff have probably never flown a plane or even know how a plane flies, but hey they are reporters so they must know something right?
What's Obama done? For damn sure he's never put his life on the line for this country. Oh wait he was a comunity organizer. At the same age Obama was a comunity organizer, McCain was a squadron commander leading men in the defense of this country, flying planes off of carriers (one of the most dangerous flying activities there is) and accourding to those that served with him, he did it rather well.
Keep spinning though :rolleyes:
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When he was released, he continued to serve in the Navy, ended up commanding a fighter squadron, flew thousands of more hours in military and civilian aircraft with 0 incidents. I think it's safe to assume that he learned from those incidents and that made him a better pilot and commander in the long run.
This is false. He crashed a civilian aircraft stateside after the war.
Also, as the LA Times points out, his father stepped in and doctored the report concerning his T-2 crash.
His father also pulled strings to get him the command. It's in the Rolling Stone article. Any normal person without an admiral for a dad would have been bounced from the academy, bounced from flight duty, and had a career behind a desk.